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I have a copy of the email if anyone would like one.
Copied this from Talk:Hal Abelson/temp, posted there originally by Hcatlin: -- Delirium 02:36, Dec 6, 2003 (UTC)
Ok, I got this email from Dr. Abelson.
Sure thing.
Nice of you to ask.
== Hal
In reply to the message:
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:59:41 -0500 From: "Hampton Catlin" <hampton.catlin@furman.edu>
Dr. Abelson-
I was playing around with the Wikipedia and noticed that there wasn't an entry about you. I figured that an entry about you would be nice, so I was wondering if you could give me permission to use the biography posted on your site in the text of the Wikipedia entry.
Thanks, Hampton $(*&$.
The article currently attributes the "shoulders of giants" quip to Dr. Abelson. When I wrote my thesis, I (like many others I'm sure) put it in as a frontpiece. However, when I later found Dr. Abelson on-line, I e-mailed him to check if the quote did, in fact, originate with him. His reply was :
I'll edit the article to reflect this. -- Plumbago 11:24, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Is Dr. Abelson really from the class of 1922? If that refers to his bachelor's degree, and the school system at that time was approximately like the present school system, that means he was born around 1900. I have trouble believing he's over a hundred years old (especially given the photo on his home page, which is in color so it must be recent, and the video of him learning to walk - consumer video cameras didn't exist until somewhat recently). Since it comes out as exactly 1900, it looks like one of those jokes about their age that older professors seem to enjoy. I'm removing this info; if someone can confirm his age or birth, please do so. -- Geoffrey 04:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Richard Stallman reportedly enjoys sleeping on Dr. Abelson's couch.
I was trying to fill in the [citation needed] where it says he's a director of the Center for Democracy and Technology.
I have this citation: http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/hal/doing.html However, not sure his own page is a valid cite.
Also, and more damningly, the CTD does not list him anywhere.
...so I'm at a loss. DewiMorgan ( talk) 19:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
This article would be much improved by adding the years to the events and projects it mentions. E.g. "In YEAR", "From YEAR to now". Lentower ( talk) 17:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Lentower ( talk · contribs) claims that reference [4] of the current version, Harvey's "Why Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs matters", is a primary source, and insists on tagging the claim sourced by it as in need of improved sourcing. My own opinion is that this claim is a bizarre overreach.
So my position is still that the [primary] tag should be removed. But rather than edit-warring about that, perhaps we should have a discussion and try to get some consensus. So, questions for discussion:
— David Eppstein ( talk) 16:54, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
I usually read all of a discussion and think about it, before replying to any of it.
So .... Lentower ( talk) 04:15, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
I propose we change the sentence to this:
The Association for Computing Machinery notes this course "was widely emulated and adopted by colleges around the world." [1]
and add this as a new paragraph, perhaps in a new section Awards:
In 2011, Abelson received the Karl V. Karlstrom Outstanding Educator Award. The citation read "For his contribution to computing education, through his innovative advances in curricula designed for students pursuing different kinds of computing expertise, and for his leadership in the movement for open educational resources. [1]
If this award was published in an ACM journal, it be better to use the {{ cite journal}} template.
The Karl V. Karlstrom Outstanding Educator Award has neither an article nor a template. It's in over a dozen articles so far. Create either if you feel it's meets WP:N.
It's possible this reference could be used to cite other present text or add even more text to this biography.
Re: the proposed consensus Agreed, Disagree, or Comment Lentower ( talk) 04:15, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Now Lentower is reverting all my changes on the article, with the excuse that this discussion hasn't yet had time to reach a consensus, regardless of whether the changes involve removing the primary tag on Harvey's source (which the preliminary consensus above seems to be favoring). I don't see this as constructive behavior. — David Eppstein ( talk) 23:09, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Nczempin, can you please:
I hope that will make it clear why I, who entered the topic as an "outsider" after seeing this section at RSN, reinstated David's improvements. If you disagree with the substance of the changes and still have questions after that, I'll be happy to address them. Abecedare ( talk) 16:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Nczempin ( talk · contribs): I am not happy with the sentence in question or source on it. I was happy to see the award this dispute uncovered added to the article. The reorganization is not an issue to me.
Until you stepped in, the matter had reached a point of diminishing returns for me, even though a Wikipedia concensus had not been reached.
I believe the consensus I proposed better meets the goals of Wikipeida, and the needs of it's readers. It also meets what David Eppstein ( talk · contribs) said his primary goal was. I be happy to answer any other questions you have about the reasons I gave above, and would welcome your input on the proposed consensus. Lentower ( talk) 16:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the sentence, "He is Jewish" from the article since it was sourced to a software sales website and user-contributed content site. I have no strong objections if the sentence is re-added with appropriate sources, although the usual convention is that religion/ethnicity information is included in a biography only if (1) it is relevant to the subject's notability, and/or (2) the subject self-identifies to belong to those classes. Abecedare ( talk) 16:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
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I have just modified 2 external links on Hal Abelson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Please place new discussions at the bottom of the talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hal Abelson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have a copy of the email if anyone would like one.
Copied this from Talk:Hal Abelson/temp, posted there originally by Hcatlin: -- Delirium 02:36, Dec 6, 2003 (UTC)
Ok, I got this email from Dr. Abelson.
Sure thing.
Nice of you to ask.
== Hal
In reply to the message:
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:59:41 -0500 From: "Hampton Catlin" <hampton.catlin@furman.edu>
Dr. Abelson-
I was playing around with the Wikipedia and noticed that there wasn't an entry about you. I figured that an entry about you would be nice, so I was wondering if you could give me permission to use the biography posted on your site in the text of the Wikipedia entry.
Thanks, Hampton $(*&$.
The article currently attributes the "shoulders of giants" quip to Dr. Abelson. When I wrote my thesis, I (like many others I'm sure) put it in as a frontpiece. However, when I later found Dr. Abelson on-line, I e-mailed him to check if the quote did, in fact, originate with him. His reply was :
I'll edit the article to reflect this. -- Plumbago 11:24, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Is Dr. Abelson really from the class of 1922? If that refers to his bachelor's degree, and the school system at that time was approximately like the present school system, that means he was born around 1900. I have trouble believing he's over a hundred years old (especially given the photo on his home page, which is in color so it must be recent, and the video of him learning to walk - consumer video cameras didn't exist until somewhat recently). Since it comes out as exactly 1900, it looks like one of those jokes about their age that older professors seem to enjoy. I'm removing this info; if someone can confirm his age or birth, please do so. -- Geoffrey 04:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Richard Stallman reportedly enjoys sleeping on Dr. Abelson's couch.
I was trying to fill in the [citation needed] where it says he's a director of the Center for Democracy and Technology.
I have this citation: http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/hal/doing.html However, not sure his own page is a valid cite.
Also, and more damningly, the CTD does not list him anywhere.
...so I'm at a loss. DewiMorgan ( talk) 19:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
This article would be much improved by adding the years to the events and projects it mentions. E.g. "In YEAR", "From YEAR to now". Lentower ( talk) 17:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Lentower ( talk · contribs) claims that reference [4] of the current version, Harvey's "Why Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs matters", is a primary source, and insists on tagging the claim sourced by it as in need of improved sourcing. My own opinion is that this claim is a bizarre overreach.
So my position is still that the [primary] tag should be removed. But rather than edit-warring about that, perhaps we should have a discussion and try to get some consensus. So, questions for discussion:
— David Eppstein ( talk) 16:54, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
I usually read all of a discussion and think about it, before replying to any of it.
So .... Lentower ( talk) 04:15, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
I propose we change the sentence to this:
The Association for Computing Machinery notes this course "was widely emulated and adopted by colleges around the world." [1]
and add this as a new paragraph, perhaps in a new section Awards:
In 2011, Abelson received the Karl V. Karlstrom Outstanding Educator Award. The citation read "For his contribution to computing education, through his innovative advances in curricula designed for students pursuing different kinds of computing expertise, and for his leadership in the movement for open educational resources. [1]
If this award was published in an ACM journal, it be better to use the {{ cite journal}} template.
The Karl V. Karlstrom Outstanding Educator Award has neither an article nor a template. It's in over a dozen articles so far. Create either if you feel it's meets WP:N.
It's possible this reference could be used to cite other present text or add even more text to this biography.
Re: the proposed consensus Agreed, Disagree, or Comment Lentower ( talk) 04:15, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Now Lentower is reverting all my changes on the article, with the excuse that this discussion hasn't yet had time to reach a consensus, regardless of whether the changes involve removing the primary tag on Harvey's source (which the preliminary consensus above seems to be favoring). I don't see this as constructive behavior. — David Eppstein ( talk) 23:09, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Nczempin, can you please:
I hope that will make it clear why I, who entered the topic as an "outsider" after seeing this section at RSN, reinstated David's improvements. If you disagree with the substance of the changes and still have questions after that, I'll be happy to address them. Abecedare ( talk) 16:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Nczempin ( talk · contribs): I am not happy with the sentence in question or source on it. I was happy to see the award this dispute uncovered added to the article. The reorganization is not an issue to me.
Until you stepped in, the matter had reached a point of diminishing returns for me, even though a Wikipedia concensus had not been reached.
I believe the consensus I proposed better meets the goals of Wikipeida, and the needs of it's readers. It also meets what David Eppstein ( talk · contribs) said his primary goal was. I be happy to answer any other questions you have about the reasons I gave above, and would welcome your input on the proposed consensus. Lentower ( talk) 16:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the sentence, "He is Jewish" from the article since it was sourced to a software sales website and user-contributed content site. I have no strong objections if the sentence is re-added with appropriate sources, although the usual convention is that religion/ethnicity information is included in a biography only if (1) it is relevant to the subject's notability, and/or (2) the subject self-identifies to belong to those classes. Abecedare ( talk) 16:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Hal Abelson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:43, 28 October 2017 (UTC)