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When and why (then) was Haiti recognised by the United States?-- Derim Hunt 22:09, 05. Feb. 2010 (CEST)
This article is pretty clearly not NPOV. Until today, no mention of US opposition to Haitian minimum wage hike, no reference to Firmin, just a US government page cut and pasted to Wikipedia. SashiRolls ( talk) 16:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The Clinton Foundation has been involved in Haiti both before and after the 2010 Haiti earthquake with mixed results. [1] [2] [3]. The Clinton Foundation's role in the creation of the Caracol Industrial Park [4] has been the source of significant criticism [1] [5] as it has been accompanied by US Embassy and State Department opposition to raising the minimum wage in Haiti. [6] [7]
References
The preceding historical information has been added to this article in an effort to improve the article, which was previously almost entirely based on a copy-paste from public domain text written by the US State Department. A user ( Snooganssnoogans) who is active on political candidate pages at Wikipedia has reverted it twice without proposing any improvements.
How would you like to rewrite this content Snooganssnoogans and integrate it into the article? As you know, Bill & Hillary Clinton both have a long history of action in Haiti, as the very detailed May 2015 Politico article and the award-winning book by Jonathan Katz make clear (see the extensive entries in the book's index for the two US politicians' role in Haitian politics). The Sept 2015 article describing Chelsea Clinton's criticism of US NGOs working in Haiti and the articles explaining how the US embassy in Haiti opposed raising the minimum wage also speak directly to Haiti-US relations. (Note that it is explicitly stated that this was with the approval of the US State Department: "To resolve the impasse between the factory owners and parliament, the State Department urged then Haitian President Ren茅 Pr茅val to intervene." (cf. last 2 references))
I'm really struggling to see on what grounds you oppose adding this historical content. Could you please write the content in your own words if you don't think my approach is appropriate? Thank you. I was not aware you were well-versed in Haitian history, but I look forward to collaborating with you. I've been a student of Haitian history since the 1990s and so, like you, I'm aware that this article needs major work to render it NPOV. As a question of good faith, I'll give you a few hours to look into improving the content of these two sentences, before calling for comment from other uninvolved editors. I've made two improvements to the text and added one reference to further help you. Looking forward to your productive comments. It would be good to resolve this quickly, so as to move backwards in time to the 1915 invasion under Wilson. SashiRolls ( talk) 18:25, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
A minor but important point: for the Katz book, we absolutely need page numbers. See WP:PAGENUM, which says for long works like books and treatises, specific page numbers are helpful and necessary so content may be easily verified. Also, why does the book cite link to a C-SPAN clip about the book? Is the intent to cite the book, or an event/talk about the book. Particularly for high-profile, high-importance content like politics, international relations, etc., we cannot be sloppy with this sort of thing. Neutrality talk 13:58, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
References
In fact, the question of minimum wage could be another drag on investors' interest. Under a recently enacted law, the minimum wage should now be roughly $6.85 a day for garment work. But factory owners have simply refused to pay the higher wages. A recent survey by the International Labor Organization found not a single factory in Haiti currently complying with the new law. Sae-A declined to comment on particulars, stating only that its employees "are compensated in accordance with local laws and regulations."
The consensus is against the proposed inclusion. Editors were concerned about the text's wording and noted that this is not directly related to US-Haiti relations since the US was not involved in any official capacity. Cunard ( talk) 05:02, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Can anyone propose any specific improvements to the following proposed text? Do you think it should be added to this page? Why or why not?
Thank you for the time invested in responding to this request for comment!
The Clinton Foundation has been involved in Haiti both before and after the 2010 Haiti earthquake
with mixed results. [1] [2] [3]. Prior to the 2010 earthquake, Bill Clinton had been named special envoy to Haiti by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon [4], whose connections with the South Korean company Sae-A were later put to work in the creation of the Caracol Industrial Park while Hillary Clinton was at the State Department. [5] [6] Factory conditions have been a source of significant criticism. [1] [4] [7] Although the minimum wage was raised over US Embassy, US AID, and US State Department opposition, [8] [9] [10] garment factories across the country, including at Caracol Industrial Park, have not been applying the law. [11] [12] [13]
SashiRolls ( talk) 16:37, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
No as written the text seems like an editorial, "mixed results", what mixed results? from whose viewpoints? CuriousMind01 ( talk) 12:03, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I mean the entire paragraph has to be rewritten or deleted, the paragraph is written like a biased editorial, not an encyclopedia of facts and equal viewpoints.
The Clinton Foundation has been involved in Haiti both before and after the 2010 Haiti earthquake.[1][2][3].
Why is this important to state??? Prior to the 2010 earthquake, Bill Clinton had been named special envoy to Haiti by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon[4]"
why is this relevant?? Delete:"whose connections with the South Korean company Sae-A were later put to work in the creation of the Caracol Industrial Park while Hillary Clinton was at the State Department.[5][6]"
Delete "Factory conditions have been a source of significant criticism.[1][4]" what criticism?? by whom??
Delete: "Although the minimum wage was raised over US Embassy, US AID, and US State Department opposition, [7][8][9]" why is this relevant? what opposition statements? what reasons?
delete: "garment factories across the country, including at Caracol Industrial Park, have not been applying the law.[10][11][12]" This is irrelevant to the article subject and does not explain the facts of not applying. CuriousMind01 ( talk) 03:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm fully opposed to SashiRolls's proposed edit. It's full of weasel words, original research, and most problematic of all; the actions of a former President and a non-profit have nothing to do with bilateral US-Haiti relations. I'd like to note that SashiRolls has been banned from editing on wikipedia pages related to Jill Stein for breaking several wikipedia policies, a temporary ban from all editing, and is now here on this page trying to desperately shoehorn criticisms of the Clintons into an unrelated article. The user's history shows that it's completely pointless to try to reason with him/her. The discussion above showcases the obtuseness that got the user banned in the first place. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:33, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
In fact, the question of minimum wage could be another drag on investors' interest. Under a recently enacted law, the minimum wage should now be roughly $6.85 a day for garment work. But factory owners have simply refused to pay the higher wages. A recent survey by the International Labor Organization found not a single factory in Haiti currently complying with the new law. Sae-A declined to comment on particulars, stating only that its employees "are compensated in accordance with local laws and regulations."
In fact, the question of minimum wage could be another drag on investors' interest. Under a recently enacted law, the minimum wage should now be roughly $6.85 a day for garment work. But factory owners have simply refused to pay the higher wages. A recent survey by the International Labor Organization found not a single factory in Haiti currently complying with the new law. Sae-A declined to comment on particulars, stating only that its employees "are compensated in accordance with local laws and regulations."
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In the history section when describing events during the Jefferson admin, the following comment is made without citation: the United States under President Jefferson (a Virginia slaveowner who only supported manumission of African-Americans from slavery on the condition of voluntary removal to Africa)...
This statement is unsupported by the wiki link to the Jefferson article. Please provide a link or citation to verify this statement. Dperry4930 ( talk) 19:44, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Haiti鈥揢nited States relations article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 365聽days聽
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Pdl272.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Sullivankm001.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:00, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
When and why (then) was Haiti recognised by the United States?-- Derim Hunt 22:09, 05. Feb. 2010 (CEST)
This article is pretty clearly not NPOV. Until today, no mention of US opposition to Haitian minimum wage hike, no reference to Firmin, just a US government page cut and pasted to Wikipedia. SashiRolls ( talk) 16:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The Clinton Foundation has been involved in Haiti both before and after the 2010 Haiti earthquake with mixed results. [1] [2] [3]. The Clinton Foundation's role in the creation of the Caracol Industrial Park [4] has been the source of significant criticism [1] [5] as it has been accompanied by US Embassy and State Department opposition to raising the minimum wage in Haiti. [6] [7]
References
The preceding historical information has been added to this article in an effort to improve the article, which was previously almost entirely based on a copy-paste from public domain text written by the US State Department. A user ( Snooganssnoogans) who is active on political candidate pages at Wikipedia has reverted it twice without proposing any improvements.
How would you like to rewrite this content Snooganssnoogans and integrate it into the article? As you know, Bill & Hillary Clinton both have a long history of action in Haiti, as the very detailed May 2015 Politico article and the award-winning book by Jonathan Katz make clear (see the extensive entries in the book's index for the two US politicians' role in Haitian politics). The Sept 2015 article describing Chelsea Clinton's criticism of US NGOs working in Haiti and the articles explaining how the US embassy in Haiti opposed raising the minimum wage also speak directly to Haiti-US relations. (Note that it is explicitly stated that this was with the approval of the US State Department: "To resolve the impasse between the factory owners and parliament, the State Department urged then Haitian President Ren茅 Pr茅val to intervene." (cf. last 2 references))
I'm really struggling to see on what grounds you oppose adding this historical content. Could you please write the content in your own words if you don't think my approach is appropriate? Thank you. I was not aware you were well-versed in Haitian history, but I look forward to collaborating with you. I've been a student of Haitian history since the 1990s and so, like you, I'm aware that this article needs major work to render it NPOV. As a question of good faith, I'll give you a few hours to look into improving the content of these two sentences, before calling for comment from other uninvolved editors. I've made two improvements to the text and added one reference to further help you. Looking forward to your productive comments. It would be good to resolve this quickly, so as to move backwards in time to the 1915 invasion under Wilson. SashiRolls ( talk) 18:25, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
A minor but important point: for the Katz book, we absolutely need page numbers. See WP:PAGENUM, which says for long works like books and treatises, specific page numbers are helpful and necessary so content may be easily verified. Also, why does the book cite link to a C-SPAN clip about the book? Is the intent to cite the book, or an event/talk about the book. Particularly for high-profile, high-importance content like politics, international relations, etc., we cannot be sloppy with this sort of thing. Neutrality talk 13:58, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
References
In fact, the question of minimum wage could be another drag on investors' interest. Under a recently enacted law, the minimum wage should now be roughly $6.85 a day for garment work. But factory owners have simply refused to pay the higher wages. A recent survey by the International Labor Organization found not a single factory in Haiti currently complying with the new law. Sae-A declined to comment on particulars, stating only that its employees "are compensated in accordance with local laws and regulations."
The consensus is against the proposed inclusion. Editors were concerned about the text's wording and noted that this is not directly related to US-Haiti relations since the US was not involved in any official capacity. Cunard ( talk) 05:02, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Can anyone propose any specific improvements to the following proposed text? Do you think it should be added to this page? Why or why not?
Thank you for the time invested in responding to this request for comment!
The Clinton Foundation has been involved in Haiti both before and after the 2010 Haiti earthquake
with mixed results. [1] [2] [3]. Prior to the 2010 earthquake, Bill Clinton had been named special envoy to Haiti by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon [4], whose connections with the South Korean company Sae-A were later put to work in the creation of the Caracol Industrial Park while Hillary Clinton was at the State Department. [5] [6] Factory conditions have been a source of significant criticism. [1] [4] [7] Although the minimum wage was raised over US Embassy, US AID, and US State Department opposition, [8] [9] [10] garment factories across the country, including at Caracol Industrial Park, have not been applying the law. [11] [12] [13]
SashiRolls ( talk) 16:37, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
No as written the text seems like an editorial, "mixed results", what mixed results? from whose viewpoints? CuriousMind01 ( talk) 12:03, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I mean the entire paragraph has to be rewritten or deleted, the paragraph is written like a biased editorial, not an encyclopedia of facts and equal viewpoints.
The Clinton Foundation has been involved in Haiti both before and after the 2010 Haiti earthquake.[1][2][3].
Why is this important to state??? Prior to the 2010 earthquake, Bill Clinton had been named special envoy to Haiti by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon[4]"
why is this relevant?? Delete:"whose connections with the South Korean company Sae-A were later put to work in the creation of the Caracol Industrial Park while Hillary Clinton was at the State Department.[5][6]"
Delete "Factory conditions have been a source of significant criticism.[1][4]" what criticism?? by whom??
Delete: "Although the minimum wage was raised over US Embassy, US AID, and US State Department opposition, [7][8][9]" why is this relevant? what opposition statements? what reasons?
delete: "garment factories across the country, including at Caracol Industrial Park, have not been applying the law.[10][11][12]" This is irrelevant to the article subject and does not explain the facts of not applying. CuriousMind01 ( talk) 03:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm fully opposed to SashiRolls's proposed edit. It's full of weasel words, original research, and most problematic of all; the actions of a former President and a non-profit have nothing to do with bilateral US-Haiti relations. I'd like to note that SashiRolls has been banned from editing on wikipedia pages related to Jill Stein for breaking several wikipedia policies, a temporary ban from all editing, and is now here on this page trying to desperately shoehorn criticisms of the Clintons into an unrelated article. The user's history shows that it's completely pointless to try to reason with him/her. The discussion above showcases the obtuseness that got the user banned in the first place. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:33, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
In fact, the question of minimum wage could be another drag on investors' interest. Under a recently enacted law, the minimum wage should now be roughly $6.85 a day for garment work. But factory owners have simply refused to pay the higher wages. A recent survey by the International Labor Organization found not a single factory in Haiti currently complying with the new law. Sae-A declined to comment on particulars, stating only that its employees "are compensated in accordance with local laws and regulations."
In fact, the question of minimum wage could be another drag on investors' interest. Under a recently enacted law, the minimum wage should now be roughly $6.85 a day for garment work. But factory owners have simply refused to pay the higher wages. A recent survey by the International Labor Organization found not a single factory in Haiti currently complying with the new law. Sae-A declined to comment on particulars, stating only that its employees "are compensated in accordance with local laws and regulations."
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Haiti鈥揢nited States relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.鈥 InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:49, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
In the history section when describing events during the Jefferson admin, the following comment is made without citation: the United States under President Jefferson (a Virginia slaveowner who only supported manumission of African-Americans from slavery on the condition of voluntary removal to Africa)...
This statement is unsupported by the wiki link to the Jefferson article. Please provide a link or citation to verify this statement. Dperry4930 ( talk) 19:44, 15 March 2023 (UTC)