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Erm... why delete so much background data? It's so vague now... Ingoman 11:31, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The full-continent map doesn't really give an idea of where Haida Gwaii is, because the red coloration is such a small bit of the map; wouldn't a PacNW map do better? Skookum1 05:38, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
More info re: Spiritul beliefs of the Haidas, esp. as it relates to nature, would be nice.
I'm responding to the merge request/proposal. I oppose the merger, although there's work to be done to define and delineate the appropriate content for the two articles; what seems to have been evolving across the board is a tripartite breakdown; people/culture, nation/community/government, language/culture. I haven't really looked around the Lower 48 tribes' wikipages to see how they're laid out, just going by what I've noticed in BC and WA, where there's also already been some overlap and needs to be some parameters set out as to what's in which article. Tsilhqot'in, for example, is about the people, Chilcotin language is about the language, Chilcotin is a disambig including non-First Nations usages (e.g. the region by that name) as well as the chilcotin national council or whatever they call themselves. So I think in the case of the Haida a distinction should be made between the Haida page, which should be about culture, history etc, Council of the Haida Nation for the government, Haida language for the language (prob. not written up yet so that should come out as a redlink); Kwakiutl needs a similar delineation (as Kwakawka'wakw actually refers to one of THREE Kwakiutl-culture political organizations, not simply to Kwak'wala speakers). Dropped by to add the Bringhurst cite, if it's not here already, and left my two bits. Skookum1 18:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Further to my opposition-to-merge above, I've been working on the lists of nations/groups/tribes and languages/culture and pueblos/reservations/communities, and am certain now that this article needs to be the separate language/culture article and the Council of the Haida Nation article should be the groups/nations; and I should also ask what people's opinions on separating culture/people from governments articles; e.g. with St'at'imc there's a distinction between Lillooet Tribal Council, N'quat'qua and In-SHUCK-ch Nation, which are all St'at'imc by culture and St'at'imcets by language but have separate governments and (now) consider themselves separate peoples/nations despite cultural and family links. In the case of the Haida this isn't so much of an issue, although I gather there's a separate political organization/identity among Alaska's Kaigani Haida. Anyway, there always needs to be a separate language article; how "culture" is to be split between that and the nations/groups articles I'm still not sure; language articles so far tend to be raw linguistics and need more lay examples/orientation anyway. Skookum1 20:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Several statements in this article contain bias. For example: "As the islands were Christianized, many cultural works such as totem posts were destroyed or taken to museums around the world. This significantly undermined Haida self-knowledge and further diminished morale." Back up opinion statements like these with credible citations, or remove them entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kehodgson ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
Did any Canadian contribute to the original authoring of this article???
As a Canadian, it is my understanding that the word "tribe" is not used to refer to the Haida or any other First Nations people in Canada. Canada's Indian Act, R.S.C., c. I-6, s. 1. uses the word "band" to mean a First Nations group and the word "council of the band" to represent the local indigenious authority entity. If you watch any Canadian news channel, the word "band" is always used when referring to a First Nations group. Therefore I made a change in the beginning of the article and a change to the subheading "Tribal Government". This is just an important terminology issue that I like to bring up. I am sure that American wikipedians already know that Canadians use the word "Indian reserve" to mean what Americans call "Indian reservation". Furthermore, the word "First Nations" is used in Canada to mean only the full-blooded native Indians while the word "Aboriginal" is an umbrella term that Canadians use for native Indians, the mixed-blood Metis, and the Inuit (or Native Alaskans in American parlance).
I also added some important Canadian legal cases involving the Haida or one that affects the Haida in Canada. User: Alf74 11:42, June 03, 2006 (UTC)
the article states "one account raises a reasonable possibility that Asia was even visited by Haidas before Europeans entered the Pacific." i would like to see a cite for this, if possible. Substatique 21:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that Haida does have a classification, at least as according to the corresponding article Haida language. Since I don't have a source for that, or as to why it says in the Haida article that the language is unclassifyable as yet, what edit should be made? -- Pyry 00:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I am Haida.I was Born and raised here on Haida Gwaii.I am 21 years old. I will define what 'wasco' means. Wasco is a Sea Monster. I am very proud of my Haida Culture and am very egotistical in that matter. To some people a very showy person of pride is such an offence. I don't intend to come across as boistful, but it seems I do. In my opinion we try to do all we can for our small culture. So much as to recover human remains from a museum all the way from Chicago U.S.A, which were ' taken from the barrial-grounds on Haida Gwaii.'(on video-Stolen Spirits Of Haida Gwaii). We are still on the fight to keep our Haida Language alive. Elders in our communities are on the raise against time to teach all they can until their time is up. Our great ancestors have done alot for our culture. I stick to the history I know. Unfortunately, we didn't conquer. We cannot change history, but if you know any history or anything to help clarify anything on this page, don't be afraid to put it out there. Say it. Thank you
In a move to simplify work on articles, and easier to read, I've helped categorizes some of the pages on Indigenous, I added sub-sections and what not. I didn't delete any of the wording present on the article already, just moved it. If you want to help rewrite and add to, thanks. OldManRivers 23:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Just as a suggestion, the article could use some reorganization. For example, the sea battles and stone rings that were used show up in both the first and fifth paragraphs. It would probably be better to either have sea battles briefly mentioned in the first paragraph and then place all of the details within one sub section. That is just one suggestion though - I simply don't feel knowledgeable enough on the topic to do the edit myself.
In regards to the calendar, that looks a lot like the 13 month lunar calendar that was used by many cultures. How does it differ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.67.6.14 ( talk) 14:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I think photographs would make this article look much better. OldManRivers 23:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
"Haidas were traditionally known as the naked fierce warriors and slave-traders… It's been said that the war helmets that were carved were by using special techniques. These techniques are unknown to anyone other than the Haida people as they have kept it secret for many years. Even to this day no one really knows how the Haida would carve their war helmets and how they looked." All uncited. - Jmabel | Talk 17:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
sealion hide i believe
Inforlife (
talk) 19:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken in the last month or two a linguistics researcher has finally pinned down connections between a Siberian language and the once-theoretical Na-Dene group, and part of the proof involved Haida as well as Tlingit and their Athabaskan neighbours; I don't know too much more, only that I heard it on CBC-Radio, normally a reliable source; I'll leave it to an ethnography/linguistics person to make the call and find the cite, though.... Skookum1 ( talk) 20:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
An Hawaiian version of the story is that they came from Haida Gwaii and meet and mixed with Polynesians, who arrived later, with regular trade voyages back and forth to Haida Gwai'i and Hawai'i. There are still families in Hawaii today who claim descent from Haida people. 43.245.218.13 ( talk) 06:03, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
This seems like a good idea, especially because of hte multiple names for the villages and th need to index their locations etc. On canadiangenaology.net I found [ http://www.canadiangenealogy.net/indians/haida_indians.htm the most complete listing of villages I've seen so far; from Swanton maybe: here's the list for refernce purposes:
Small towns and camps so far as known are as follows:
Makes me wonder if the same isn't available for Kwakwaka'wakw etc; I'll look around taht site. Skookum1 ( talk) 16:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I just happened across War Canoe which knowledgeable contributors to this article will recognize as being seriously in need of work/rewriting; made me realize taht there isnt' anarticle on Lootaas and there certainly should be; I'll try and do up a stub but I hope some more Haida-knowledgeable person will help expand it (I'll do it later, after dinner and the gym). Skookum1 ( talk) 20:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Being 100% haida myself, I see nothing wrong with the comparison of haida warriors to Asian warriors. Neither were weak or submissive as the so called "warriors" from the lower 48. Native Americans such as Geronimo & Chief Joseph, who gave up they're land, people, & dignity, were weak compared to the Haidas, Tlingits, & Tsimshians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.112.173.196 ( talk) 01:07, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, because Geronimo gave up his land just like *that*.
Kielbasa1 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:00, 9 September 2010 (UTC).
Somebody keeps on re-adding a bit of WP:Synthesis that the Haida attack methods were "the same" as those used by Imperial Japan and the Mongol Empire; any number of such comparisons could be made, from Crow techniques on hte Great Plains to the way Vikings operated, or most pointedly of all the invention of the blitzkrieg by the Germans and employed with devastating effect by the Third Reich; I'd added that comparison alongside the Japanese and Mongol ones a long time ago to make a point, and teh same IP user didn't like it and took it out; fine, but no comparisons are valid in Wikipedia terms, as that's "synthesis", an analysis not supported by any documentation and inherently a fallacy anyway. It's a specious comparison and whiel it's fashionable to look for, or make, connections between Asia and the Haida, it has no basis in ethnography or proper historiographic techniques; and as noted again, there are lots of other comparison that could be made as well. What would be more relevant in this section, which given some reorganization of the article I might take the time to do, is a chronicle of the various specific wars and attacks of the Haida during their brutallization and enslavement of other peoples, and the various attacks/reprisals on fur trade ships, and on each other. To the person always adding the Japan/Mongol comparison - I'll always take it out, it doesn't belong, escept in the realm of "popular mythology about the Haida". It might also be stated, perhaps, that their treatment of slaves was far worse than anything perpetrated by Americans on their slaves, or by the Romans and Greeks on theirs - and that's a statement of fact, not some kind of glorifying mythology of the kind you're making (or thinking you're making). Skookum1 ( talk) 03:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
i am learning here, but wonder how the "fact" that Haidas were worse to their slaves is any less specious. Seems to me that that is a reactionary pov based on your perception of the contrary bent of other editors on this article.
24.84.38.20 (
talk) 21:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I had to place this because the opening of the article is not written ethnographically and in a neutral fashion, but is written to present a particular POV and political agenda about the Haida, and specifically omits mention of British Columbia as if it did not exist; it was me who re-inserted mention of Canada as it had been taken out by one of the "Haida political censors". This article needs an NPOV rewrite, and evidently (see previous section) may ultimately need semi-protection to prevent mythology and romaniticized accounts from being added adn re-added and re-added.... Skookum1 ( talk) 03:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to leave the IP user edit from the person who was born/raised in Skidegate....the source of the photo, which is in BC ARchives, says it's Old Masset - BUT that wouldn't be the first time BC Archives has had a wrong caption. Just noting these here for later if another editor checks the image description/source and sees the Old Masset attribution...someone who would know all the crests on teh poles adn teh arrangement of houses ,and theshape of the beach, will know for sure; for now I'll beileve the IP user ofver the gnoes of BC Archives who, like I said, get things wrong all the time. Skookum1 ( talk) 14:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
A few diffs back I had minimally rewritten a few sentences to include links I consider useful, to wit:
I am not sure why the links and these sentences were removed. If there are any factual inaccuracies, can they be corrected, so that the links ( History of slavery, Dugout, etc. ) can be integrated in a sensible way? BrainyBabe ( talk) 20:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't have time and am not in the mood (I just got up) but I found this on the civilization.ca website (Cdn government-sponsosred, i.e. Museum of Civilization in Ottawa) and much of the copy on that page is verbatim what's here, including the first part of teh phrase that somebody keeps on adding the Mongol comparison to. Seems like a lot of content here should just be deleted as copyvio....might have been well-intended even by museum staff....at some point somebody's got to create a "circular" to send out about Wikipedia practices and content rules.... Skookum1 ( talk) 15:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
New editor User:Mny, to whose talkpage I have added a welcome, has made substantial, but unsubstantiated, changes (see diff) to the Haida#History section. As a sign of assuming good faith, instead of making deletes or further revisions, I'd like to attempt to discuss them here first. Some claims have been added, some material removed, and other items recast. Some of these changes are useful, but others are not encyclopedic. I'll put the new material in italics below. For example:
1. A new first paragraph asserts that "Haida civilization... blends socialism and capitalism". Not only is this not sourced, but it is not referred to or explained anywhere in the section.
2. What was formerly the lead paragraph has been reworded with a POV twist, and with a link removed:
3. With reference to the possible trans-Pacific journeys, an addition has been made, but unfortunately without source
4. The paragraph about war and slaves has changed a lot:
5. In addition, this allusion to secret knowledge would seem difficult to document, and thus unencyclopedic.
6. And this material appears to have been deleted:
All of these issues need to be addressed. Please add sources, if you can. If not, much of this will have to go. BrainyBabe ( talk) 12:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
i believe the haida word for chilkat- style blankets is Naxiin (i'll try to find out for sure). for number6 i did wonder myself if it were true. i don't think that red cedar would have been the best material available for armor, and i believe it also originally stated that they were covered, or bound with elk hide, or some other non-indigenous species. which all may be true, just set off some alarm bells. number 4 (if cited) would be an interesting contribution. if such theories do exist in published form, first place i would look would be wilson duff... or maybe george mcdonald. Inforlife ( talk) 18:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
In March 2008, extensive text was pasted here from [1] by an IP contributor. Text can only be placed on Wikipedia if it is public domain or licensed compatibly with GFDL. This is clearly note the case, as the website prominently reserves copyright: here. Unless permission is forthcoming (see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission), this material will have to be removed. Editors who would like to rewrite the material may do so in the temporary space linked from the article's face. If the material is not revised by the end of the seven day listing at the copyright problems board and no permission is forthcoming, it may be necessary to delete the text and restore an earlier version of the article, prior to the introduction of this infringement. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:25, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/haida/havwa01e.shtml. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a license compatible with GFDL. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The Haidia article IMO should just have been ditched from day one of its creation, as its title is wrong and the content is amateurish - and by the look of its sole citation would appear to be copyvio. Some of its facts/elements might be incorporatable into the existing Haida article, but its text is too awkward to bother with any actual integration/merge and, as already noted, might be copyvio from the sole source given, though it can be used as a citation. Looks to me like a high school essay the author decided to throw up as a wikipedia article.... Skookum1 ( talk) 13:40, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
"The Haida are an indigenous nation of the Pacific Northwest Coast of North America."
Shouldn't it be "The Haidas are" etc. (plural)?
62.98.127.18 (
talk) 12:10, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
that is very rude — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:78E3:3400:A03A:B4D6:3114:FEC0 ( talk) 01:43, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
There's a lot of mumbo jumbo introduced into this article since last I looked at it; especially the affectations "Haida Empire", "Kaigani Empire", "Tsimshian Empire"...and why the Battle of Sitka, which is Tsimshian history, has been included is a bit of a non-sequitur. It strikes me that a lot of the additions seem to be "lifted" from a longer published work; very few citations have been provided for the additions, which should be reviewed and passages checked against Google for probable CopyVio...it's hard to tell where the quote from the museum quote ends and if much of the ramble that comes after is from there...there's a lot of overly grandiose claims here now, and not proper historical specifics.... Skookum1 ( talk)
I just removed the paragraph starting, The Haida went to war to acquire objects of wealth, such as coppers and Chilkat blankets..., which was copied from the copyrighted book Haida Art. Pfly ( talk) 03:25, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I would like to know two things.... First Why is their such massive discolouration on this? Their is a one sentence stub for Haida and a bigger stub for the Haida council then their is this one on the Haida people... This could all be condensed into one entry
And considering what Russ George did there in coerced cooperation/ manipulation of the Haida I would think Planktos and the largest act of eco vandalism/terrorism would be mentioned all over the Haida articles.... That is what I came here to learn more about.. instead I found nothing but stubs and bickering..
Bickering about copy right infringement.
Maybe "fair Use" laws don't apply to wiki... maybe yall hated the heck out of the unoriginal content... I don't know.... It seems to me though that as long as yall remain a non profit that you will not be infringe upon any copyrighted work by making money off it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.247.104.253 ( talk) 03:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 23:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Haida people → Haida – target is dab page converted from original "Haida" title by Kwami Feb 1, 2011 with no regard to UNDAB, then made into a dab page also by Kwami with no regard to PRIMARYTOPIC or UNDAB. Skookum1 ( talk) 05:30, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Category:Haida people already indicates what that phrase most commonly means - "individuals who are/were Haida".....the list of modern and historically notable Haida here is growing, and will continue to grow, and as with other articles/topics of this kind, a separation is needed between the general ethno/history article and an article about individuals past and present; this is normal; the current title is not and was a fly-by-night imposition of a needless dab; the RM close was flawed in so many ways it's not worth "going at it here"....my point is that the current title is BEST suited for use as an article about "individuals who are Haida", so that they can be discussed in moredetail than the bullet-pointed list format here so far. Similarly a full List of Haida villages is much more extensive and I will split that off soon from the redirect to the villages section here that that title currently is. Skookum1 ( talk) 08:00, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Haida people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs thorough revision.
Skookum1 - 20 Feb, 06
Much revised and rewritten since last assessment. A solid article, but in need of copyedit and general polishing. Phaedriel - 12 July, 06 Went over with a copy edit and polish. Getting there now. Keefer4 - 24 Jan, 07 |
Last edited at 11:45, 1 February 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 16:58, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Hey gang!
If you look at the history you may have noticed that I have recently made some... sizable changes. I rearranged many of the sections (placing warfare under culture, making religion a separate subheading under culture) and consolidated the two (why were there two?????) history sections to the best of my abilities. I also removed a great deal of repetitive and unnecessary information (information about the Haida language belongs in the
Haida language wiki.
The introduction still needs a great deal of work, relocating much of the information to the history or culture sections, and basically writing a whole new introduction that provides a broader overview of Haida culture
The history section is also lacking details on the Lyle Island protests, the Smallpox Epidemic of 1862, the Potlatch Ban, the revitalization of Haida art in the 60s and 70s, the formation of reservations etc. There should also be a whole lot more on Haida art (totem poles, bentwood boxes, jewellery, argillite carvings etc.) I will be endeavouring to add these over the next few weeks but some help would be appreciated :)
Also, do we need a whole section dedicated to the calendar? I would argue that it belongs in the Haida language wiki
Lemme know what you guys think (and sorry that I made such drastic changes without coming here first, they were driving me insane)
Kungjaada ( talk) 00:24, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
I see from #Organizing This Article that the calendar section bothered someone enough to remove it but they don't appear to have moved it to Haida language as was suggested. So there is now a dead link from the list of calendars article. Would a regular editor of this topic resolve please? (and clear the bot notification at the top of talk:list of calendars when done.) TYVM. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 14:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
The Haida went to war to acquire objects of wealth, such as coppers and Chilkat blankets, that were in short supply on the islands, but primarily for slaves, who enhanced their productivity or were traded to other tribes. High-ranking captives were also the source of other property received in ransom such as crest designs, dances and songs. [7] https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/haida/havwa01e.html This continued well into the colonial period of the 19th Century despite, and in resistance to, slavery being banned in the British Empire and more specifically in Canada. 2A02:C7C:7257:5000:35A6:71D7:9FD4:1D08 ( talk) 16:57, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
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Erm... why delete so much background data? It's so vague now... Ingoman 11:31, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The full-continent map doesn't really give an idea of where Haida Gwaii is, because the red coloration is such a small bit of the map; wouldn't a PacNW map do better? Skookum1 05:38, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
More info re: Spiritul beliefs of the Haidas, esp. as it relates to nature, would be nice.
I'm responding to the merge request/proposal. I oppose the merger, although there's work to be done to define and delineate the appropriate content for the two articles; what seems to have been evolving across the board is a tripartite breakdown; people/culture, nation/community/government, language/culture. I haven't really looked around the Lower 48 tribes' wikipages to see how they're laid out, just going by what I've noticed in BC and WA, where there's also already been some overlap and needs to be some parameters set out as to what's in which article. Tsilhqot'in, for example, is about the people, Chilcotin language is about the language, Chilcotin is a disambig including non-First Nations usages (e.g. the region by that name) as well as the chilcotin national council or whatever they call themselves. So I think in the case of the Haida a distinction should be made between the Haida page, which should be about culture, history etc, Council of the Haida Nation for the government, Haida language for the language (prob. not written up yet so that should come out as a redlink); Kwakiutl needs a similar delineation (as Kwakawka'wakw actually refers to one of THREE Kwakiutl-culture political organizations, not simply to Kwak'wala speakers). Dropped by to add the Bringhurst cite, if it's not here already, and left my two bits. Skookum1 18:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Further to my opposition-to-merge above, I've been working on the lists of nations/groups/tribes and languages/culture and pueblos/reservations/communities, and am certain now that this article needs to be the separate language/culture article and the Council of the Haida Nation article should be the groups/nations; and I should also ask what people's opinions on separating culture/people from governments articles; e.g. with St'at'imc there's a distinction between Lillooet Tribal Council, N'quat'qua and In-SHUCK-ch Nation, which are all St'at'imc by culture and St'at'imcets by language but have separate governments and (now) consider themselves separate peoples/nations despite cultural and family links. In the case of the Haida this isn't so much of an issue, although I gather there's a separate political organization/identity among Alaska's Kaigani Haida. Anyway, there always needs to be a separate language article; how "culture" is to be split between that and the nations/groups articles I'm still not sure; language articles so far tend to be raw linguistics and need more lay examples/orientation anyway. Skookum1 20:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Several statements in this article contain bias. For example: "As the islands were Christianized, many cultural works such as totem posts were destroyed or taken to museums around the world. This significantly undermined Haida self-knowledge and further diminished morale." Back up opinion statements like these with credible citations, or remove them entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kehodgson ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
Did any Canadian contribute to the original authoring of this article???
As a Canadian, it is my understanding that the word "tribe" is not used to refer to the Haida or any other First Nations people in Canada. Canada's Indian Act, R.S.C., c. I-6, s. 1. uses the word "band" to mean a First Nations group and the word "council of the band" to represent the local indigenious authority entity. If you watch any Canadian news channel, the word "band" is always used when referring to a First Nations group. Therefore I made a change in the beginning of the article and a change to the subheading "Tribal Government". This is just an important terminology issue that I like to bring up. I am sure that American wikipedians already know that Canadians use the word "Indian reserve" to mean what Americans call "Indian reservation". Furthermore, the word "First Nations" is used in Canada to mean only the full-blooded native Indians while the word "Aboriginal" is an umbrella term that Canadians use for native Indians, the mixed-blood Metis, and the Inuit (or Native Alaskans in American parlance).
I also added some important Canadian legal cases involving the Haida or one that affects the Haida in Canada. User: Alf74 11:42, June 03, 2006 (UTC)
the article states "one account raises a reasonable possibility that Asia was even visited by Haidas before Europeans entered the Pacific." i would like to see a cite for this, if possible. Substatique 21:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that Haida does have a classification, at least as according to the corresponding article Haida language. Since I don't have a source for that, or as to why it says in the Haida article that the language is unclassifyable as yet, what edit should be made? -- Pyry 00:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I am Haida.I was Born and raised here on Haida Gwaii.I am 21 years old. I will define what 'wasco' means. Wasco is a Sea Monster. I am very proud of my Haida Culture and am very egotistical in that matter. To some people a very showy person of pride is such an offence. I don't intend to come across as boistful, but it seems I do. In my opinion we try to do all we can for our small culture. So much as to recover human remains from a museum all the way from Chicago U.S.A, which were ' taken from the barrial-grounds on Haida Gwaii.'(on video-Stolen Spirits Of Haida Gwaii). We are still on the fight to keep our Haida Language alive. Elders in our communities are on the raise against time to teach all they can until their time is up. Our great ancestors have done alot for our culture. I stick to the history I know. Unfortunately, we didn't conquer. We cannot change history, but if you know any history or anything to help clarify anything on this page, don't be afraid to put it out there. Say it. Thank you
In a move to simplify work on articles, and easier to read, I've helped categorizes some of the pages on Indigenous, I added sub-sections and what not. I didn't delete any of the wording present on the article already, just moved it. If you want to help rewrite and add to, thanks. OldManRivers 23:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Just as a suggestion, the article could use some reorganization. For example, the sea battles and stone rings that were used show up in both the first and fifth paragraphs. It would probably be better to either have sea battles briefly mentioned in the first paragraph and then place all of the details within one sub section. That is just one suggestion though - I simply don't feel knowledgeable enough on the topic to do the edit myself.
In regards to the calendar, that looks a lot like the 13 month lunar calendar that was used by many cultures. How does it differ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.67.6.14 ( talk) 14:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I think photographs would make this article look much better. OldManRivers 23:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
"Haidas were traditionally known as the naked fierce warriors and slave-traders… It's been said that the war helmets that were carved were by using special techniques. These techniques are unknown to anyone other than the Haida people as they have kept it secret for many years. Even to this day no one really knows how the Haida would carve their war helmets and how they looked." All uncited. - Jmabel | Talk 17:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
sealion hide i believe
Inforlife (
talk) 19:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken in the last month or two a linguistics researcher has finally pinned down connections between a Siberian language and the once-theoretical Na-Dene group, and part of the proof involved Haida as well as Tlingit and their Athabaskan neighbours; I don't know too much more, only that I heard it on CBC-Radio, normally a reliable source; I'll leave it to an ethnography/linguistics person to make the call and find the cite, though.... Skookum1 ( talk) 20:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
An Hawaiian version of the story is that they came from Haida Gwaii and meet and mixed with Polynesians, who arrived later, with regular trade voyages back and forth to Haida Gwai'i and Hawai'i. There are still families in Hawaii today who claim descent from Haida people. 43.245.218.13 ( talk) 06:03, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
This seems like a good idea, especially because of hte multiple names for the villages and th need to index their locations etc. On canadiangenaology.net I found [ http://www.canadiangenealogy.net/indians/haida_indians.htm the most complete listing of villages I've seen so far; from Swanton maybe: here's the list for refernce purposes:
Small towns and camps so far as known are as follows:
Makes me wonder if the same isn't available for Kwakwaka'wakw etc; I'll look around taht site. Skookum1 ( talk) 16:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I just happened across War Canoe which knowledgeable contributors to this article will recognize as being seriously in need of work/rewriting; made me realize taht there isnt' anarticle on Lootaas and there certainly should be; I'll try and do up a stub but I hope some more Haida-knowledgeable person will help expand it (I'll do it later, after dinner and the gym). Skookum1 ( talk) 20:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Being 100% haida myself, I see nothing wrong with the comparison of haida warriors to Asian warriors. Neither were weak or submissive as the so called "warriors" from the lower 48. Native Americans such as Geronimo & Chief Joseph, who gave up they're land, people, & dignity, were weak compared to the Haidas, Tlingits, & Tsimshians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.112.173.196 ( talk) 01:07, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, because Geronimo gave up his land just like *that*.
Kielbasa1 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:00, 9 September 2010 (UTC).
Somebody keeps on re-adding a bit of WP:Synthesis that the Haida attack methods were "the same" as those used by Imperial Japan and the Mongol Empire; any number of such comparisons could be made, from Crow techniques on hte Great Plains to the way Vikings operated, or most pointedly of all the invention of the blitzkrieg by the Germans and employed with devastating effect by the Third Reich; I'd added that comparison alongside the Japanese and Mongol ones a long time ago to make a point, and teh same IP user didn't like it and took it out; fine, but no comparisons are valid in Wikipedia terms, as that's "synthesis", an analysis not supported by any documentation and inherently a fallacy anyway. It's a specious comparison and whiel it's fashionable to look for, or make, connections between Asia and the Haida, it has no basis in ethnography or proper historiographic techniques; and as noted again, there are lots of other comparison that could be made as well. What would be more relevant in this section, which given some reorganization of the article I might take the time to do, is a chronicle of the various specific wars and attacks of the Haida during their brutallization and enslavement of other peoples, and the various attacks/reprisals on fur trade ships, and on each other. To the person always adding the Japan/Mongol comparison - I'll always take it out, it doesn't belong, escept in the realm of "popular mythology about the Haida". It might also be stated, perhaps, that their treatment of slaves was far worse than anything perpetrated by Americans on their slaves, or by the Romans and Greeks on theirs - and that's a statement of fact, not some kind of glorifying mythology of the kind you're making (or thinking you're making). Skookum1 ( talk) 03:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
i am learning here, but wonder how the "fact" that Haidas were worse to their slaves is any less specious. Seems to me that that is a reactionary pov based on your perception of the contrary bent of other editors on this article.
24.84.38.20 (
talk) 21:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I had to place this because the opening of the article is not written ethnographically and in a neutral fashion, but is written to present a particular POV and political agenda about the Haida, and specifically omits mention of British Columbia as if it did not exist; it was me who re-inserted mention of Canada as it had been taken out by one of the "Haida political censors". This article needs an NPOV rewrite, and evidently (see previous section) may ultimately need semi-protection to prevent mythology and romaniticized accounts from being added adn re-added and re-added.... Skookum1 ( talk) 03:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to leave the IP user edit from the person who was born/raised in Skidegate....the source of the photo, which is in BC ARchives, says it's Old Masset - BUT that wouldn't be the first time BC Archives has had a wrong caption. Just noting these here for later if another editor checks the image description/source and sees the Old Masset attribution...someone who would know all the crests on teh poles adn teh arrangement of houses ,and theshape of the beach, will know for sure; for now I'll beileve the IP user ofver the gnoes of BC Archives who, like I said, get things wrong all the time. Skookum1 ( talk) 14:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
A few diffs back I had minimally rewritten a few sentences to include links I consider useful, to wit:
I am not sure why the links and these sentences were removed. If there are any factual inaccuracies, can they be corrected, so that the links ( History of slavery, Dugout, etc. ) can be integrated in a sensible way? BrainyBabe ( talk) 20:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't have time and am not in the mood (I just got up) but I found this on the civilization.ca website (Cdn government-sponsosred, i.e. Museum of Civilization in Ottawa) and much of the copy on that page is verbatim what's here, including the first part of teh phrase that somebody keeps on adding the Mongol comparison to. Seems like a lot of content here should just be deleted as copyvio....might have been well-intended even by museum staff....at some point somebody's got to create a "circular" to send out about Wikipedia practices and content rules.... Skookum1 ( talk) 15:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
New editor User:Mny, to whose talkpage I have added a welcome, has made substantial, but unsubstantiated, changes (see diff) to the Haida#History section. As a sign of assuming good faith, instead of making deletes or further revisions, I'd like to attempt to discuss them here first. Some claims have been added, some material removed, and other items recast. Some of these changes are useful, but others are not encyclopedic. I'll put the new material in italics below. For example:
1. A new first paragraph asserts that "Haida civilization... blends socialism and capitalism". Not only is this not sourced, but it is not referred to or explained anywhere in the section.
2. What was formerly the lead paragraph has been reworded with a POV twist, and with a link removed:
3. With reference to the possible trans-Pacific journeys, an addition has been made, but unfortunately without source
4. The paragraph about war and slaves has changed a lot:
5. In addition, this allusion to secret knowledge would seem difficult to document, and thus unencyclopedic.
6. And this material appears to have been deleted:
All of these issues need to be addressed. Please add sources, if you can. If not, much of this will have to go. BrainyBabe ( talk) 12:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
i believe the haida word for chilkat- style blankets is Naxiin (i'll try to find out for sure). for number6 i did wonder myself if it were true. i don't think that red cedar would have been the best material available for armor, and i believe it also originally stated that they were covered, or bound with elk hide, or some other non-indigenous species. which all may be true, just set off some alarm bells. number 4 (if cited) would be an interesting contribution. if such theories do exist in published form, first place i would look would be wilson duff... or maybe george mcdonald. Inforlife ( talk) 18:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
In March 2008, extensive text was pasted here from [1] by an IP contributor. Text can only be placed on Wikipedia if it is public domain or licensed compatibly with GFDL. This is clearly note the case, as the website prominently reserves copyright: here. Unless permission is forthcoming (see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission), this material will have to be removed. Editors who would like to rewrite the material may do so in the temporary space linked from the article's face. If the material is not revised by the end of the seven day listing at the copyright problems board and no permission is forthcoming, it may be necessary to delete the text and restore an earlier version of the article, prior to the introduction of this infringement. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:25, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/haida/havwa01e.shtml. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a license compatible with GFDL. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The Haidia article IMO should just have been ditched from day one of its creation, as its title is wrong and the content is amateurish - and by the look of its sole citation would appear to be copyvio. Some of its facts/elements might be incorporatable into the existing Haida article, but its text is too awkward to bother with any actual integration/merge and, as already noted, might be copyvio from the sole source given, though it can be used as a citation. Looks to me like a high school essay the author decided to throw up as a wikipedia article.... Skookum1 ( talk) 13:40, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
"The Haida are an indigenous nation of the Pacific Northwest Coast of North America."
Shouldn't it be "The Haidas are" etc. (plural)?
62.98.127.18 (
talk) 12:10, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
that is very rude — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:78E3:3400:A03A:B4D6:3114:FEC0 ( talk) 01:43, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
There's a lot of mumbo jumbo introduced into this article since last I looked at it; especially the affectations "Haida Empire", "Kaigani Empire", "Tsimshian Empire"...and why the Battle of Sitka, which is Tsimshian history, has been included is a bit of a non-sequitur. It strikes me that a lot of the additions seem to be "lifted" from a longer published work; very few citations have been provided for the additions, which should be reviewed and passages checked against Google for probable CopyVio...it's hard to tell where the quote from the museum quote ends and if much of the ramble that comes after is from there...there's a lot of overly grandiose claims here now, and not proper historical specifics.... Skookum1 ( talk)
I just removed the paragraph starting, The Haida went to war to acquire objects of wealth, such as coppers and Chilkat blankets..., which was copied from the copyrighted book Haida Art. Pfly ( talk) 03:25, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I would like to know two things.... First Why is their such massive discolouration on this? Their is a one sentence stub for Haida and a bigger stub for the Haida council then their is this one on the Haida people... This could all be condensed into one entry
And considering what Russ George did there in coerced cooperation/ manipulation of the Haida I would think Planktos and the largest act of eco vandalism/terrorism would be mentioned all over the Haida articles.... That is what I came here to learn more about.. instead I found nothing but stubs and bickering..
Bickering about copy right infringement.
Maybe "fair Use" laws don't apply to wiki... maybe yall hated the heck out of the unoriginal content... I don't know.... It seems to me though that as long as yall remain a non profit that you will not be infringe upon any copyrighted work by making money off it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.247.104.253 ( talk) 03:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 23:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Haida people → Haida – target is dab page converted from original "Haida" title by Kwami Feb 1, 2011 with no regard to UNDAB, then made into a dab page also by Kwami with no regard to PRIMARYTOPIC or UNDAB. Skookum1 ( talk) 05:30, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Category:Haida people already indicates what that phrase most commonly means - "individuals who are/were Haida".....the list of modern and historically notable Haida here is growing, and will continue to grow, and as with other articles/topics of this kind, a separation is needed between the general ethno/history article and an article about individuals past and present; this is normal; the current title is not and was a fly-by-night imposition of a needless dab; the RM close was flawed in so many ways it's not worth "going at it here"....my point is that the current title is BEST suited for use as an article about "individuals who are Haida", so that they can be discussed in moredetail than the bullet-pointed list format here so far. Similarly a full List of Haida villages is much more extensive and I will split that off soon from the redirect to the villages section here that that title currently is. Skookum1 ( talk) 08:00, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Haida people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs thorough revision.
Skookum1 - 20 Feb, 06
Much revised and rewritten since last assessment. A solid article, but in need of copyedit and general polishing. Phaedriel - 12 July, 06 Went over with a copy edit and polish. Getting there now. Keefer4 - 24 Jan, 07 |
Last edited at 11:45, 1 February 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 16:58, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Hey gang!
If you look at the history you may have noticed that I have recently made some... sizable changes. I rearranged many of the sections (placing warfare under culture, making religion a separate subheading under culture) and consolidated the two (why were there two?????) history sections to the best of my abilities. I also removed a great deal of repetitive and unnecessary information (information about the Haida language belongs in the
Haida language wiki.
The introduction still needs a great deal of work, relocating much of the information to the history or culture sections, and basically writing a whole new introduction that provides a broader overview of Haida culture
The history section is also lacking details on the Lyle Island protests, the Smallpox Epidemic of 1862, the Potlatch Ban, the revitalization of Haida art in the 60s and 70s, the formation of reservations etc. There should also be a whole lot more on Haida art (totem poles, bentwood boxes, jewellery, argillite carvings etc.) I will be endeavouring to add these over the next few weeks but some help would be appreciated :)
Also, do we need a whole section dedicated to the calendar? I would argue that it belongs in the Haida language wiki
Lemme know what you guys think (and sorry that I made such drastic changes without coming here first, they were driving me insane)
Kungjaada ( talk) 00:24, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
I see from #Organizing This Article that the calendar section bothered someone enough to remove it but they don't appear to have moved it to Haida language as was suggested. So there is now a dead link from the list of calendars article. Would a regular editor of this topic resolve please? (and clear the bot notification at the top of talk:list of calendars when done.) TYVM. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 14:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
The Haida went to war to acquire objects of wealth, such as coppers and Chilkat blankets, that were in short supply on the islands, but primarily for slaves, who enhanced their productivity or were traded to other tribes. High-ranking captives were also the source of other property received in ransom such as crest designs, dances and songs. [7] https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/haida/havwa01e.html This continued well into the colonial period of the 19th Century despite, and in resistance to, slavery being banned in the British Empire and more specifically in Canada. 2A02:C7C:7257:5000:35A6:71D7:9FD4:1D08 ( talk) 16:57, 30 June 2023 (UTC)