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After reviewing many sources including the britanica page, it became apparent that Amhara people are the Abyssinians. This article is not highlighting this fact. @EthiopianHabesha, censoring sources is not the way to go about editing the encyclopedia. Duqsene ( talk) 18:18, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Duqsene, you are correct that Abyssinian identity is and has always been centered around the Ethiopian Semitic-speaking highlanders. George Sale indicates as much - see his description from the early 1700s [1]. Note, however, that although Sabaeans were an important part of the Kingdom of Aksum, the ancestral Abyssinians -- the Aksumites themselves -- did not speak Sabaean. They spoke instead the ancient Ge'ez language. Soupforone ( talk) 15:47, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Amhara and Tigray are separate ethnic groups speaking different Ethiopian Semitic languages rather than different clans of the same ethnic group. I believe Duquesne's point is that this is the core of the Abyssinian tradition. Also, note that the Axumite era ended around the 10th century. The Abyssinian Empire itself (i.e., the chief kingdom of the Axumites' descendants) was established a few years later, in the 13th century. Soupforone ( talk) 03:09, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha, I'm not going to go over why the Abyssinian people =/= the Habesh linguistic root. Please familiarize yourself with the concept of the homonym. Also, see James Bruce (1768) [6] for a historic description of the actual Abyssinian kingdom and its rulers. Soupforone ( talk) 16:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
This proposal goes against wikipedia policies. Ge'ez is no longer in use except at church services. This is why historians have regarded Amhara as their cultural inheritors. Duqsene ( talk) 05:22, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha, the main language of the Abyssinian Solomonic dynasty was actually Amhara. Ge'ez was by then a liturgical language. However, it was the main language of the earlier Aksumite kingdom. Soupforone ( talk) 15:41, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Dont alter the source, its not talking about Amharic speakers but Amhara people. I know there's an "Amhara myth" section on the Amhara peoples page but they do exist as a people according to many academics/historians. The Zagwe dynasty page says the following, "The Zagwe dynasty (ዛጉዌ) was a historical kingdom in present-day northern Ethiopia. Centered at Lalibela, it ruled large parts of the territory from approximately 900 to 1270, when the last Zagwe King Za-Ilmaknun was killed in battle by the forces of the Abyssinian King Yekuno Amlak." Yekuno Amlak who is regarded ethnic Amhara claimed descent from Axum through his father. As shown terms, Abyssinian (Amhara) and Zagwe are differentiated. Zagwe wouldnt fit the semitic Abyssinian Amhara/Axum identity as they were kushite. Duqsene ( talk) 22:23, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha, Ge'ez was actually the lingua franca of the Axumite Empire [10]. Soupforone ( talk) 03:13, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Soupforone, in addition to referring Axum kingdom as Abyssinian kingdom scholars also refer Zagwe as Abyssinian kingdom please see [11] [12] [13] [14] [15]. Now the most important question is, is it appropriate to say the Abyssinian kingdom under Zagwe rule was led by Amharic and Tigrinya identity? i.e. if we say Abyssinian identity is composed of Amharic and Tigrinya identity. Which is equivalent to say Latin or Roman identity is based on Spanish and French identity when the role of people speaking these languages is uncertain within the Roman empire. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 16:36, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
In WP:Goodfaith the true Abyssinians are firstly the native speakers of Ge'ez language (inhabitants of Daamat and Axumites) and secondly their direct descendants Tigrinya and Tigre Speakers. See Tigre language and article is saying "Tigre language is believed to be the most closely related living language to Ge'ez language". Ge'ez (language of the Axumites, the true Abyssinians) did not separate from Amharic. Amharas are just the dominant and majority in number within the ethnolinguistic group and are the inheritors (similar to the cushite Agawas) of Axum kingdom's (Abyssinian kingdom's) culture, state structure, Ge'ez civilisation, rule of law and religion. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 11:41, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
After reviewing many sources including the britanica page, it became apparent that Amhara people are the Abyssinians. This article is not highlighting this fact. @EthiopianHabesha, censoring sources is not the way to go about editing the encyclopedia. Duqsene ( talk) 18:18, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Duqsene, you are correct that Abyssinian identity is and has always been centered around the Ethiopian Semitic-speaking highlanders. George Sale indicates as much - see his description from the early 1700s [1]. Note, however, that although Sabaeans were an important part of the Kingdom of Aksum, the ancestral Abyssinians -- the Aksumites themselves -- did not speak Sabaean. They spoke instead the ancient Ge'ez language. Soupforone ( talk) 15:47, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Amhara and Tigray are separate ethnic groups speaking different Ethiopian Semitic languages rather than different clans of the same ethnic group. I believe Duquesne's point is that this is the core of the Abyssinian tradition. Also, note that the Axumite era ended around the 10th century. The Abyssinian Empire itself (i.e., the chief kingdom of the Axumites' descendants) was established a few years later, in the 13th century. Soupforone ( talk) 03:09, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha, I'm not going to go over why the Abyssinian people =/= the Habesh linguistic root. Please familiarize yourself with the concept of the homonym. Also, see James Bruce (1768) [6] for a historic description of the actual Abyssinian kingdom and its rulers. Soupforone ( talk) 16:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
This proposal goes against wikipedia policies. Ge'ez is no longer in use except at church services. This is why historians have regarded Amhara as their cultural inheritors. Duqsene ( talk) 05:22, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha, the main language of the Abyssinian Solomonic dynasty was actually Amhara. Ge'ez was by then a liturgical language. However, it was the main language of the earlier Aksumite kingdom. Soupforone ( talk) 15:41, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Dont alter the source, its not talking about Amharic speakers but Amhara people. I know there's an "Amhara myth" section on the Amhara peoples page but they do exist as a people according to many academics/historians. The Zagwe dynasty page says the following, "The Zagwe dynasty (ዛጉዌ) was a historical kingdom in present-day northern Ethiopia. Centered at Lalibela, it ruled large parts of the territory from approximately 900 to 1270, when the last Zagwe King Za-Ilmaknun was killed in battle by the forces of the Abyssinian King Yekuno Amlak." Yekuno Amlak who is regarded ethnic Amhara claimed descent from Axum through his father. As shown terms, Abyssinian (Amhara) and Zagwe are differentiated. Zagwe wouldnt fit the semitic Abyssinian Amhara/Axum identity as they were kushite. Duqsene ( talk) 22:23, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha, Ge'ez was actually the lingua franca of the Axumite Empire [10]. Soupforone ( talk) 03:13, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Soupforone, in addition to referring Axum kingdom as Abyssinian kingdom scholars also refer Zagwe as Abyssinian kingdom please see [11] [12] [13] [14] [15]. Now the most important question is, is it appropriate to say the Abyssinian kingdom under Zagwe rule was led by Amharic and Tigrinya identity? i.e. if we say Abyssinian identity is composed of Amharic and Tigrinya identity. Which is equivalent to say Latin or Roman identity is based on Spanish and French identity when the role of people speaking these languages is uncertain within the Roman empire. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 16:36, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
In WP:Goodfaith the true Abyssinians are firstly the native speakers of Ge'ez language (inhabitants of Daamat and Axumites) and secondly their direct descendants Tigrinya and Tigre Speakers. See Tigre language and article is saying "Tigre language is believed to be the most closely related living language to Ge'ez language". Ge'ez (language of the Axumites, the true Abyssinians) did not separate from Amharic. Amharas are just the dominant and majority in number within the ethnolinguistic group and are the inheritors (similar to the cushite Agawas) of Axum kingdom's (Abyssinian kingdom's) culture, state structure, Ge'ez civilisation, rule of law and religion. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 11:41, 10 January 2017 (UTC)