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It would be good to upload those .jpgs (linked here) to Wiki, in case those sites go down. All the pics are in the public domain. I just don't have time today. --
Possibly worthy of mention: Lee Harvey Oswald was in frequent contact with George de Mohrenschildt, a Russian emigre settled in Dallas, who was also in contact with GHW Bush. Mohrenschildt's address book contained the entry: "Bush, George H.W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland. [Number] 4-6355." [1] Mohrenschildt allegedly had known Bush since the 1940s, and allegedly had some dealings with the CIA. --
Just a request: so far this article has been blessedly free from POV rancor. Please help keep it this way. Avoid unsupported allegations or innuendos; call attention to contrary evidence or interpretations if appropriate. Avoid unreliable sources (and there are many on this topic). Footnote, reference, cite all sources on disputed facts. Flag disputed facts with {reference needed}, as appropriate.
--
It might be appropriate to put in the "CIA?" section the reason this question is of such interest to historians; namely, because Bush has denied any connection. So, it is not that Zapata played a huge role, but it sheds light on Bush. This needs to be stated in neutral language, w/o POV. --
I added the lengthy Watergate tape trascript; but am not sure it should stay. It's long. But rich! Could cut way back and link to Watergate tapes?
Please engage in discussion before deleting such extensive and excellent work. Please mark the sections that you think should be split, deleted, edited, sourced, etc. IP 208 even suggested that certain sections are too long, but as a work very clearly "in progress" there's no reason to wipe out other parts. I am restoring some of the best parts, others may want to restore more. Eugene Banks 15:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I think we by and large agree on the split and I have not heard any opposition; I'm just holding off to give the users at 208, 141, 68, Diasimon, ZwoBot, Mennonot, Uhdcj98, 64, Khatru2, Chris, Samantha etc a chance to weigh in. (208, 68, anyone out there? I don't know if this page gets seen much.) My sense is that the risk for Wikipedia now is instability and chaos, not lethargy or lack of change. So patience is a virtue.
Just to pass the time until then, some very small points of clarification: it's not clear to me in what way the founder and CEO of a (small) company is not a business asset. I would say he's the most important asset. If the use of ships is relevant, then it seems to me that so is the use of human resources (personnel). And this includes the CEO. (Thus, MBA courses include
HR along with Finance, Operations, Marketing, etc.) But this may be moot, because it seems to me that all this part of the story (Bay of Pigs and Iran-Contra included) should be split to the [political] side.
Agreed, no need to discuss theories here. (For those who are interested, what's important is to present the facts of the memos, with a NPOV. They raise some
burden of proof and
Prima facie questions, but these can be dealt with later/elsewhere on that page.)
A detail: rather than creating a separate disambiguation page, which would force readers to go through an unnecessary step, I suggest using the template {dablink} on the top of each half of the split. E.g., it might look something like this:
and
Naturally, it is a vital part of the agreement to split that these {dablinks} remain a permanent part of both Articles so long as they are split. Is everyone OK with this? Eugene Banks 00:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with all of gazpachos comments, are you a lawyer? apparently not a good one, because these facts about GHW Bush's ties to the Kennedy Assassination are conclusive enough to argue in court. free speech in this country is challenged enough without tricksters like you bartering the facts (and other such vexacious litigation) for worthless lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polired ( talk • contribs) 20:20, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
This article needs to be updated to show the current changes that have happened in the last 3 years (2009-20011). The first thing that has happened is that the Glazer family selling it controlling stack of the Zapata Corporation to Philip Falcone’s Harbinger Capital 2009. Witch result in the company’s name being charged to Harbinger Group Inc. with the ticker symbol HRG on the NYSE. http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/lcddata.html?ticker=HRG http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aozeLSutM_QU http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1350786&highlight= Also in 2010-2011 Harbinger Capital Partners LLC transferred it’s 54.4% in Spectrum Brands to Harbinger Group Inc. giving the company controlling interest in that company. http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1470262&highlight= http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1514182&highlight= Also in 2011 Harbinger Group Inc. acquired the insurance company Old Mutual U.S. Life Holdings, Inc. http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1547525&highlight= http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1536649&highlight= Plus I think this part titled “Connections with the CIA” should be splinted off has its own its own article because make the article inconsistent. Thai article should be about Zapata Corporation/ Harbinger Group Inc. That part should be but in an article about alleged thing that Bush sr. might of done while CEO of Zapata Corporation. But it does not have anything to do with todays Harbinger Group Inc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.35.226.90 ( talk) 23:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 00:53, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Zapata Corporation → Harbinger Group – This NYSE listed company changed its name to Harbinger Group in 2009 Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Support, "new" name is likely to predominate, if it hasn't already. — rybec 14:07, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the following section from the article:
The only citation provided for this information is the "smoking gun" tape which refers to money laundering but does not mention Zapata, Bush, Liedtke, Sturgis, Martínez, and Virgilio González. Hunt recruited Barker - they knew each other from the CIA - but this does not imply a Zapata-CIA connection. In fact, Nixon and Haldeman "propose having the CIA ask the FBI to halt their investigation of the Watergate break-in by claiming that the break-in was a national security operation." [5] Location ( talk) 18:26, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
The excisions of poor sources has rendered the section on the CIA accusations a little incoherent. For example, right at the beginning there's a reference to someone's accusations, but the passage that identified the fellow is gone. Mangoe ( talk) 12:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
In the actual Form 10-K the executive office is 450 Park Avenue, 29th Floor, New York, NY. There is no link to Rochester, New York anymore.-- Kopiersperre ( talk) 21:55, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm surprised there isn't an article yet for the CIA Agent Thomas J. Devine. I'd be willing to create one, but I'd appreciate some help (since I'm still kind of new to Wikipedia). If anyone is interested feel free to message me. (I'm also on DebatePolitics.com under the same username). Thanks!
-- Abbazorkzog ( talk) 00:09, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
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I recall Company Zapata Gulf Marine Corporation - that merged with Tidewater marine in 1991. see New York Times 22-Jun-1991 Wfoj3 ( talk) 15:47, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
HRG Group article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It would be good to upload those .jpgs (linked here) to Wiki, in case those sites go down. All the pics are in the public domain. I just don't have time today. --
Possibly worthy of mention: Lee Harvey Oswald was in frequent contact with George de Mohrenschildt, a Russian emigre settled in Dallas, who was also in contact with GHW Bush. Mohrenschildt's address book contained the entry: "Bush, George H.W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland. [Number] 4-6355." [1] Mohrenschildt allegedly had known Bush since the 1940s, and allegedly had some dealings with the CIA. --
Just a request: so far this article has been blessedly free from POV rancor. Please help keep it this way. Avoid unsupported allegations or innuendos; call attention to contrary evidence or interpretations if appropriate. Avoid unreliable sources (and there are many on this topic). Footnote, reference, cite all sources on disputed facts. Flag disputed facts with {reference needed}, as appropriate.
--
It might be appropriate to put in the "CIA?" section the reason this question is of such interest to historians; namely, because Bush has denied any connection. So, it is not that Zapata played a huge role, but it sheds light on Bush. This needs to be stated in neutral language, w/o POV. --
I added the lengthy Watergate tape trascript; but am not sure it should stay. It's long. But rich! Could cut way back and link to Watergate tapes?
Please engage in discussion before deleting such extensive and excellent work. Please mark the sections that you think should be split, deleted, edited, sourced, etc. IP 208 even suggested that certain sections are too long, but as a work very clearly "in progress" there's no reason to wipe out other parts. I am restoring some of the best parts, others may want to restore more. Eugene Banks 15:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I think we by and large agree on the split and I have not heard any opposition; I'm just holding off to give the users at 208, 141, 68, Diasimon, ZwoBot, Mennonot, Uhdcj98, 64, Khatru2, Chris, Samantha etc a chance to weigh in. (208, 68, anyone out there? I don't know if this page gets seen much.) My sense is that the risk for Wikipedia now is instability and chaos, not lethargy or lack of change. So patience is a virtue.
Just to pass the time until then, some very small points of clarification: it's not clear to me in what way the founder and CEO of a (small) company is not a business asset. I would say he's the most important asset. If the use of ships is relevant, then it seems to me that so is the use of human resources (personnel). And this includes the CEO. (Thus, MBA courses include
HR along with Finance, Operations, Marketing, etc.) But this may be moot, because it seems to me that all this part of the story (Bay of Pigs and Iran-Contra included) should be split to the [political] side.
Agreed, no need to discuss theories here. (For those who are interested, what's important is to present the facts of the memos, with a NPOV. They raise some
burden of proof and
Prima facie questions, but these can be dealt with later/elsewhere on that page.)
A detail: rather than creating a separate disambiguation page, which would force readers to go through an unnecessary step, I suggest using the template {dablink} on the top of each half of the split. E.g., it might look something like this:
and
Naturally, it is a vital part of the agreement to split that these {dablinks} remain a permanent part of both Articles so long as they are split. Is everyone OK with this? Eugene Banks 00:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with all of gazpachos comments, are you a lawyer? apparently not a good one, because these facts about GHW Bush's ties to the Kennedy Assassination are conclusive enough to argue in court. free speech in this country is challenged enough without tricksters like you bartering the facts (and other such vexacious litigation) for worthless lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polired ( talk • contribs) 20:20, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
This article needs to be updated to show the current changes that have happened in the last 3 years (2009-20011). The first thing that has happened is that the Glazer family selling it controlling stack of the Zapata Corporation to Philip Falcone’s Harbinger Capital 2009. Witch result in the company’s name being charged to Harbinger Group Inc. with the ticker symbol HRG on the NYSE. http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/lcddata.html?ticker=HRG http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aozeLSutM_QU http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1350786&highlight= Also in 2010-2011 Harbinger Capital Partners LLC transferred it’s 54.4% in Spectrum Brands to Harbinger Group Inc. giving the company controlling interest in that company. http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1470262&highlight= http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1514182&highlight= Also in 2011 Harbinger Group Inc. acquired the insurance company Old Mutual U.S. Life Holdings, Inc. http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1547525&highlight= http://www.harbingergroupinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1536649&highlight= Plus I think this part titled “Connections with the CIA” should be splinted off has its own its own article because make the article inconsistent. Thai article should be about Zapata Corporation/ Harbinger Group Inc. That part should be but in an article about alleged thing that Bush sr. might of done while CEO of Zapata Corporation. But it does not have anything to do with todays Harbinger Group Inc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.35.226.90 ( talk) 23:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 00:53, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Zapata Corporation → Harbinger Group – This NYSE listed company changed its name to Harbinger Group in 2009 Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Support, "new" name is likely to predominate, if it hasn't already. — rybec 14:07, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the following section from the article:
The only citation provided for this information is the "smoking gun" tape which refers to money laundering but does not mention Zapata, Bush, Liedtke, Sturgis, Martínez, and Virgilio González. Hunt recruited Barker - they knew each other from the CIA - but this does not imply a Zapata-CIA connection. In fact, Nixon and Haldeman "propose having the CIA ask the FBI to halt their investigation of the Watergate break-in by claiming that the break-in was a national security operation." [5] Location ( talk) 18:26, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
The excisions of poor sources has rendered the section on the CIA accusations a little incoherent. For example, right at the beginning there's a reference to someone's accusations, but the passage that identified the fellow is gone. Mangoe ( talk) 12:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
In the actual Form 10-K the executive office is 450 Park Avenue, 29th Floor, New York, NY. There is no link to Rochester, New York anymore.-- Kopiersperre ( talk) 21:55, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm surprised there isn't an article yet for the CIA Agent Thomas J. Devine. I'd be willing to create one, but I'd appreciate some help (since I'm still kind of new to Wikipedia). If anyone is interested feel free to message me. (I'm also on DebatePolitics.com under the same username). Thanks!
-- Abbazorkzog ( talk) 00:09, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:11, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
I recall Company Zapata Gulf Marine Corporation - that merged with Tidewater marine in 1991. see New York Times 22-Jun-1991 Wfoj3 ( talk) 15:47, 14 October 2019 (UTC)