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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 29, 2020 and December 29, 2022. |
Justification for merger: The only apparent interest in this ship is in its role in the battle whose article I merged into this one, after which the ship no longer existed. And, that battle only involved one other boat which has gone on to have quite an illustrious history. So, the details of the battle seem inextricably to belong together with the only boat that was described to have sunk in it. Precedent for this exists in the article for another boat, also sunk by the USS Constitution, the HMS Guerriere (1806), and it seems to work there quite nicely. Also, I changed the referencing style to footnotes. — Aratuk 21:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
The wheel on USS Constitution is NOT that taken from Java. It was replaced during a refit. My source for this is from researchers at Naval Historical Command Detachment, Boston and the USS Constitution Museum. The fact emerged explicitly in the script of a video tour I shot on board within the past week. Should I just remove this from the article, as the assertion is here uncited? DulcetTone ( talk) 18:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Here is a reference to the Java's wheel being used aboard the Constitution after the end of the War of 1812. Page 168 footnote, The second war with England, Volume 2 By Joel Tyler Headley, 1853, 1989 reprint Dabbler ( talk) 14:25, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
While the ship was beloved, the use of the scruffy Java wheel was treated as a trophy of war, just as French ships captured by the British (and occasionally vice versa) were not usually renamed. It was to rub the enemy`s face in the defeat. The anecdote in the reference I gave does not specify a date but it was obviously a number of years after the event when a British officer could safely tread the decks of the Cionstitution. Dabbler ( talk) 22:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I have yet to hear from the Naval Historical Command person, but the researcher at the Museum responded with this: "I think there is little doubt that the wheel on Constitution's quarterdeck today is not from Java. So far, the only hard documentary evidence for the replacement of the wheel comes from a Nov. 1813 receipt from Boston joiners T& R Howe who charged the Navy Department $45 for a “Steairing [sic] Wheel�? for Constitution- though we're not sure when this was installed. It may have been after the Guerriere battle and not after the one with Java." I wonder if he was confusing dates with the last sentence, as the invoice date is nearly a year after the Java battle, which would indicate a lackadaisical accounts receivable desk at T & R Howe when the customer is a government at war. One must conclude that either this order was to replace a proper wheel which was in need of replacement for no effects other than regular weather and wear over less than 2 decades of use, or was to replace that lost in battle and replaced with one no one was happy with. In either case, it is hard to imagine that Java's wheel could be seen as a worthy fixture for 200 years service. I'll see what other info comes to light, and I am already envisioning an opportunity to make a micro-documentary on this interesting little point. Who knows? Maybe there is a builder's mark on some metal fitting. DulcetTone ( talk) 01:42, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
The "Pallas class" link in the info box (class and type) refers to the wrong wiki page, about the British Pallas-class_frigate, whereas it should be the French Pallas-class_frigate_(1808). I would have edited the box myself, but I don't know the template used in the box, so I'd probably mess up. Could someone else please make the correction?-- Giant'sConscience ( talk) 00:40, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
HMS Java (1811) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 29, 2020 and December 29, 2022. |
Justification for merger: The only apparent interest in this ship is in its role in the battle whose article I merged into this one, after which the ship no longer existed. And, that battle only involved one other boat which has gone on to have quite an illustrious history. So, the details of the battle seem inextricably to belong together with the only boat that was described to have sunk in it. Precedent for this exists in the article for another boat, also sunk by the USS Constitution, the HMS Guerriere (1806), and it seems to work there quite nicely. Also, I changed the referencing style to footnotes. — Aratuk 21:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
The wheel on USS Constitution is NOT that taken from Java. It was replaced during a refit. My source for this is from researchers at Naval Historical Command Detachment, Boston and the USS Constitution Museum. The fact emerged explicitly in the script of a video tour I shot on board within the past week. Should I just remove this from the article, as the assertion is here uncited? DulcetTone ( talk) 18:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Here is a reference to the Java's wheel being used aboard the Constitution after the end of the War of 1812. Page 168 footnote, The second war with England, Volume 2 By Joel Tyler Headley, 1853, 1989 reprint Dabbler ( talk) 14:25, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
While the ship was beloved, the use of the scruffy Java wheel was treated as a trophy of war, just as French ships captured by the British (and occasionally vice versa) were not usually renamed. It was to rub the enemy`s face in the defeat. The anecdote in the reference I gave does not specify a date but it was obviously a number of years after the event when a British officer could safely tread the decks of the Cionstitution. Dabbler ( talk) 22:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I have yet to hear from the Naval Historical Command person, but the researcher at the Museum responded with this: "I think there is little doubt that the wheel on Constitution's quarterdeck today is not from Java. So far, the only hard documentary evidence for the replacement of the wheel comes from a Nov. 1813 receipt from Boston joiners T& R Howe who charged the Navy Department $45 for a “Steairing [sic] Wheel�? for Constitution- though we're not sure when this was installed. It may have been after the Guerriere battle and not after the one with Java." I wonder if he was confusing dates with the last sentence, as the invoice date is nearly a year after the Java battle, which would indicate a lackadaisical accounts receivable desk at T & R Howe when the customer is a government at war. One must conclude that either this order was to replace a proper wheel which was in need of replacement for no effects other than regular weather and wear over less than 2 decades of use, or was to replace that lost in battle and replaced with one no one was happy with. In either case, it is hard to imagine that Java's wheel could be seen as a worthy fixture for 200 years service. I'll see what other info comes to light, and I am already envisioning an opportunity to make a micro-documentary on this interesting little point. Who knows? Maybe there is a builder's mark on some metal fitting. DulcetTone ( talk) 01:42, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
The "Pallas class" link in the info box (class and type) refers to the wrong wiki page, about the British Pallas-class_frigate, whereas it should be the French Pallas-class_frigate_(1808). I would have edited the box myself, but I don't know the template used in the box, so I'd probably mess up. Could someone else please make the correction?-- Giant'sConscience ( talk) 00:40, 29 December 2016 (UTC)