Please place new discussions at the bottom of the talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
H3h3Productions article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 10 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to H3 Podcast. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
@ Garen67541: I'm not sure why you reverted my changes to this section. I don't think it made sense to have such a large philanthropy section based on a single source, and the reasoning you gave in your edit summary was simply that the source was reliable - which doesn't address the policy I linked, WP:DUE.
Also, a
recent addition seems to give
unproportional emphasis to a minor aspect of the overall topic. As I previously said in
my edit summary - per
WP:RSP with the Daily Dot, we should Consider whether content from this publication constitutes due weight before citing it in an article.
There's only a single source that you cited that isn't tabloid-like or entertainment-based that has reported on the insults Ethan said about the K-Pop fandom. I could maybe see this section differently if it was written a little more neutrally, including additional context like the twitter hashtag response by K-Pop fans. But your emphasis seems to be on keeping focus on the quote.
Other things sourced in the article have refs to mainstream media and news sources, so this seems more like a one-sentence controversy to me, or one that can be summarized without a quote. I don't see the need for an extended quote from Ethan, when we don't usually do that for articles unless there was widespread media coverage. Despite all of that, Ethan has said a number of things, including other controversial opinions - why include a quote to this one, which didn't get very much media attention?
Anyways, could we please have a discussion, per WP:BRD? I also want to let you know about the 3 Revert Rule on Wikipedia, in case you haven't heard of it before, which says someone can't revert more than 3 times within 24 hours on any one article. - Whisperjanes ( talk) 21:09, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi I think the quote is the most important part of the article and should be included, it is a controversial thing to say.
It is mentioned in the below two sources which are both confirmed sources on this page: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources
[1] [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garen67541 ( talk • contribs)
References
For example, a description of isolated events, quotes, criticisms, or news reports related to one subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic.In this case I viewed this as an isolated event, verifiable and (somewhat) impartial, but disproportionate to h3h3Productions and the Klein's overall significance. What didn't help was the citation to his youtube video as it is a WP:Primary source. Primary sources have may different reasons for not being used, one of them being that they require independent experts (journalists) to evaluate or interpret meaning beyond the obvious. And to support a controversial claim, secondary sources are required. Despite this, on reviewing my decision, I think that the two reliable sources that you provided above constitute due weight for an inclusion (albeit slim).
@ Pabsoluterince: So, I don't see why Ethan's anti-Catholic controversy should not be mentioned in the controversy section? It caused some rift between his supporters and Keemstar, and was a big deal, even being criticized by the likes of Paul Joseph Watson. Can we talk about this? -- 65.94.99.221 ( talk) 18:11, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to show how they deal with the fanbase in their social media platforms?, There's been word going around that if anything controversial happens, (even when they say criticisms are allowed) when they are addressed within sites such as Reddit, their posts will be removed [1] and in some cases the users will get banned without warning for bringing the topic up, and although there are ways to contact the brand, the moderators never responds and no auto-generated replies are sent out informing users if their messages reached them, so users will be ghosted (No responds).. this sort of information could be useful for further discussions. Hogyncymru ( talk) 23:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
References
In March 2022, after Will Smith's controversial slap towards Chris Rock at the Oscars, Ethan wrote on his twitter "If you defend your wife with violence in anger, then you probably argue with your wife in violence w anger.". However, there were some people from the black community voicing their opinions with Paige Christie saying "Ethan needs to employ a black person so that a discussion about the nuances of assimilation, race discussion, mysognioir & other racial stereotypes and micro aggressions.. The lived experiences aren’t going to be something they can understand and honestly he needs some help.”, Paige also mentioned that whenever other black people criticised them on their reddit site, (despite them encouraging critical messages), their messages were deleted. [1]
In April 2022, discussing James Charles' recent online purchase history of sanity products on an episode of the H3 Podcast, both Ethan Klein and Dan Swerdlove mocked James' sexuality by insinuating that he was a 'power bottom' in the bedroom, a phrase that many of his LGBT fanbase took offence to. Referring to the negative feedback, Mr. Swerdlove shouted "I'm so fu**ing frustrated”, furthermore, one caller; 'Matt' lectured them on how offensive the remark was. Ethan would later apologise for the remarks, although he later followed those apologies with two further joke apologies which some people felt they illegitimised his first apology. [2]
References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hogyncymru ( talk • contribs) 01:57, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi Raejensen, reversion explanation. You've only managed to cite that: Hila runs Teddy Fresh, that someone named Dan Swerdlove is a producer, that someone named Zach Louis has released music, that someone named Yung Fika streams on Twitch. These pieces of information mostly have no link to h3h3productions or h3podcast and many are primary sources. All the information in an article needs to be verifiable in reliable secondary sources. Otherwise it's considered original research, which is not allowed. Pabsoluterince ( talk) 02:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi @ Veikk0.ma: can you explain how you improved the paragraph with your edits? Twitter is not exactly an independent secondary source. I'm open for suggestions but I liked it better the way it was. Pabsoluterince ( talk) 07:05, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 ( talk · contribs) 22:39, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
H3h3Productions → H3 Podcast – H3H3 Productions was their original YouTube channel. After they launched the H3 Podcast they focused on it and slowly stopped publishing on the H3H3 Productions channel. The last upload to H3H3 Productions was Aug 5, 2020. Also, as shown by these news stories media now refer to Ethan's YouTube channel as the H3 Podcast NOT H3H3 Productions, Detroit Free Press, Newsweek -- Thats Just Great ( talk) 18:33, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
I cannot imagine this needs to be this detailed or even needs to be included at all. The topic doesn't even fully have to do with H3, but is really just an anecdote about the topic that H3 got grouped in. This is at least how it seems to me, perhaps I'm wrong. Kdog5454 ( talk) 00:59, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Is there any source for the channel being defunct besides them not uploading videos since 2020? I had a look and couldn't find anything. I added citations required in the article for now. HopefulLuck ( talk) 00:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Please place new discussions at the bottom of the talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
H3h3Productions article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 10 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to H3 Podcast. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
@ Garen67541: I'm not sure why you reverted my changes to this section. I don't think it made sense to have such a large philanthropy section based on a single source, and the reasoning you gave in your edit summary was simply that the source was reliable - which doesn't address the policy I linked, WP:DUE.
Also, a
recent addition seems to give
unproportional emphasis to a minor aspect of the overall topic. As I previously said in
my edit summary - per
WP:RSP with the Daily Dot, we should Consider whether content from this publication constitutes due weight before citing it in an article.
There's only a single source that you cited that isn't tabloid-like or entertainment-based that has reported on the insults Ethan said about the K-Pop fandom. I could maybe see this section differently if it was written a little more neutrally, including additional context like the twitter hashtag response by K-Pop fans. But your emphasis seems to be on keeping focus on the quote.
Other things sourced in the article have refs to mainstream media and news sources, so this seems more like a one-sentence controversy to me, or one that can be summarized without a quote. I don't see the need for an extended quote from Ethan, when we don't usually do that for articles unless there was widespread media coverage. Despite all of that, Ethan has said a number of things, including other controversial opinions - why include a quote to this one, which didn't get very much media attention?
Anyways, could we please have a discussion, per WP:BRD? I also want to let you know about the 3 Revert Rule on Wikipedia, in case you haven't heard of it before, which says someone can't revert more than 3 times within 24 hours on any one article. - Whisperjanes ( talk) 21:09, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi I think the quote is the most important part of the article and should be included, it is a controversial thing to say.
It is mentioned in the below two sources which are both confirmed sources on this page: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources
[1] [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garen67541 ( talk • contribs)
References
For example, a description of isolated events, quotes, criticisms, or news reports related to one subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic.In this case I viewed this as an isolated event, verifiable and (somewhat) impartial, but disproportionate to h3h3Productions and the Klein's overall significance. What didn't help was the citation to his youtube video as it is a WP:Primary source. Primary sources have may different reasons for not being used, one of them being that they require independent experts (journalists) to evaluate or interpret meaning beyond the obvious. And to support a controversial claim, secondary sources are required. Despite this, on reviewing my decision, I think that the two reliable sources that you provided above constitute due weight for an inclusion (albeit slim).
@ Pabsoluterince: So, I don't see why Ethan's anti-Catholic controversy should not be mentioned in the controversy section? It caused some rift between his supporters and Keemstar, and was a big deal, even being criticized by the likes of Paul Joseph Watson. Can we talk about this? -- 65.94.99.221 ( talk) 18:11, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to show how they deal with the fanbase in their social media platforms?, There's been word going around that if anything controversial happens, (even when they say criticisms are allowed) when they are addressed within sites such as Reddit, their posts will be removed [1] and in some cases the users will get banned without warning for bringing the topic up, and although there are ways to contact the brand, the moderators never responds and no auto-generated replies are sent out informing users if their messages reached them, so users will be ghosted (No responds).. this sort of information could be useful for further discussions. Hogyncymru ( talk) 23:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
References
In March 2022, after Will Smith's controversial slap towards Chris Rock at the Oscars, Ethan wrote on his twitter "If you defend your wife with violence in anger, then you probably argue with your wife in violence w anger.". However, there were some people from the black community voicing their opinions with Paige Christie saying "Ethan needs to employ a black person so that a discussion about the nuances of assimilation, race discussion, mysognioir & other racial stereotypes and micro aggressions.. The lived experiences aren’t going to be something they can understand and honestly he needs some help.”, Paige also mentioned that whenever other black people criticised them on their reddit site, (despite them encouraging critical messages), their messages were deleted. [1]
In April 2022, discussing James Charles' recent online purchase history of sanity products on an episode of the H3 Podcast, both Ethan Klein and Dan Swerdlove mocked James' sexuality by insinuating that he was a 'power bottom' in the bedroom, a phrase that many of his LGBT fanbase took offence to. Referring to the negative feedback, Mr. Swerdlove shouted "I'm so fu**ing frustrated”, furthermore, one caller; 'Matt' lectured them on how offensive the remark was. Ethan would later apologise for the remarks, although he later followed those apologies with two further joke apologies which some people felt they illegitimised his first apology. [2]
References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hogyncymru ( talk • contribs) 01:57, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi Raejensen, reversion explanation. You've only managed to cite that: Hila runs Teddy Fresh, that someone named Dan Swerdlove is a producer, that someone named Zach Louis has released music, that someone named Yung Fika streams on Twitch. These pieces of information mostly have no link to h3h3productions or h3podcast and many are primary sources. All the information in an article needs to be verifiable in reliable secondary sources. Otherwise it's considered original research, which is not allowed. Pabsoluterince ( talk) 02:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi @ Veikk0.ma: can you explain how you improved the paragraph with your edits? Twitter is not exactly an independent secondary source. I'm open for suggestions but I liked it better the way it was. Pabsoluterince ( talk) 07:05, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 ( talk · contribs) 22:39, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
H3h3Productions → H3 Podcast – H3H3 Productions was their original YouTube channel. After they launched the H3 Podcast they focused on it and slowly stopped publishing on the H3H3 Productions channel. The last upload to H3H3 Productions was Aug 5, 2020. Also, as shown by these news stories media now refer to Ethan's YouTube channel as the H3 Podcast NOT H3H3 Productions, Detroit Free Press, Newsweek -- Thats Just Great ( talk) 18:33, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
I cannot imagine this needs to be this detailed or even needs to be included at all. The topic doesn't even fully have to do with H3, but is really just an anecdote about the topic that H3 got grouped in. This is at least how it seems to me, perhaps I'm wrong. Kdog5454 ( talk) 00:59, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Is there any source for the channel being defunct besides them not uploading videos since 2020? I had a look and couldn't find anything. I added citations required in the article for now. HopefulLuck ( talk) 00:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)