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I'd add reqmap but someone will just deleted it because "it alrady has a map". A close-up map showing the park and its features is needed; not just the Haida villages but also former mines and other settlements etc.
OK, Ninsntints can mean either the village or the chief, but it's the usual name for Skungwai in English and I think it shoudl be the article title; same as how Cumshewa rather than its original Haida name is how even the Museum of Civilization site labels that village. Main point about Ninstints/Skungwai is it needs a separate article; this article is about the park and its history, as a park and so on; Ninstints deserves its own article like other villages now have; currently Skungwai and Ninstints aren't even redireccts; maybe I'll change that but I'd rather see those redlinks becokme bluelinks/articles; maybe I'll get to it but I'm swamped and already put in time on the other village and mine stubs in this area..... Skookum1 ( talk) 21:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It's time to split this article; the UNESCO WH site template at the village section shows how much different content it is from the park; other Haida villages now have their own articles, it's time for this one. Question is which mame to use - Ninsints, granted, should maybe primarily be a "chief" aritcle but that's not the primary use of Ninstints in English, which is/was for this village. The Museum of Civililzation website has Skungwai, and the UNESCO name is [[SGang Gwaay Llnaagay]]. Which one is correct Haida orthography I wouldn't know, but even correct Haida orthography ain't necessarily theway to go. Wiki naming conventions might preclude otherwise, either going with how it's most commonly known, or it might draw on official language vs academic language, I don't know; I'll consult the general problem in a discussion of how to format indigenous-location titles, which is related to another discussion on the use of comma-province format; I used it on Cumshewa because it is/was a searchable place on BC's map/gazette and in other matierals; Ninstints/Skungwai was never "part of BC"; Tanu (Haida village) is the format I used to disambig in that case (see Tanu and others like it); alhtough at the moment that's only a redirect to new Clew, British Columbia. Anyway hopefully Pobblebonk is reading this and can offer some knowledge of the respective orthographies and why the two versions w/wo Llnaagay. I'll also be seeking input from BC and Canada and NorthAmnative and other related WPs; there must be an extant naming convention about this, although from experience I can attest there's not a lot of consistency over "indigenous wikispace" article-names/structures. (though we're trying...).21:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
[undent]I did quite a bit of research before taking a sally at how it's worded; only two of the sites I read are ref'd so far. I shoppsed around thevarious google links for Ninstints et al., and you'll find that a lot of the Sgang gwaii/gwaay links lead to the UNESCO designation; and that seems to be the same orthography for Haida Iv'e seen in Bringhurst's translations of Skaay and Ghandl; a variant is also found on the emilycarr.org site and again there seems a certain community of scholarship/art criticism that uses that, and yoour isolationg odf hte word "civilizaitotn" was interesting and adroit - taht this was a civilization decidedly more fashioanble with modern academics and intellectuals (and myself I'd change the title of various articles (e.g. Indigenous cilivization onf the Pacific Northwest Coast as a possibility) but it seems POV). Skungwai as noted is the spelling used by the Museum of Civilization, and apparently a different pack of academics and particular Haida-group preferences; while there is a standard orthography for Haida, there is no standard orthography for Haida in English, i.e. proper Haid orthography uses characters not found in English; not a wikirpbolem I know. Anyway because those mass of google hits really boil down to citations driving only from a few, AND it happens taht Skungwa/SGang Gwaay simply means "Red Cod Island"; "Llanagaay" has to be added to mean the village (it's a tiny island, most of it was/is t he village). One of the Cumshewa Inlet towns, Skedans I think, had aname that meant "red snapper village"; these may have had to do with the decor on the hosuefronts or poles, as was the case also with the name Grizzly-Bear Town ( Skedans). Hm, maybe I've got the cod/snapper thing wrong, maybe those are both translations for Skungwai....So while most Haida villages had several names, it seems (or at least three or foru), here there are two:
Again, Skungwai is only the name of the island. And given village names elsewhere - Masset, Skidegate, Cumshewa as I mentioned in hte article, also Kloo/ Tanu are known in most historical (not modern academic/political/artistic() sources by the name of their chief; as with "Ninstints". In Nuu-chah-nulth areas, names like Yuquot adn Opitsaht are those of the people, not t he location; the actual Nhuu-chah-=nulth vlanguage village-name is different. Because also Chief Skidegate and [[ Cumsehwa (chief) and Chief Masset and others will get their articles by those titles (or with the dab-parantheses as ine Cumshewa's). Chief Ninstints winds up being "according to format", at least within the Haid aregion; this isn't continent-wide or even region-wide. I'm no Haida expert, just trying to make sense of confusing and often prejudicially-toned sources; "corrupted by whites" etc. when in actuality if it's a mistake, how can it be a corruption. You can't be both wrong and misspeled at the same time; that a p.c. version of Ninstints also shows up - Nan Sdins, transltaed as "one who is two", confuses it all the more and also comes from taht trying to re-do history thing with modern POVism. Skookum1 ( talk) 01:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
In editing Gold Harbour, British Columbia right now, I wasn't sure if it was within Gwaii Haanas or not so left "Parks Canada" in the new infobox there...and I guess I was hoping to find a map here to resolve that question; but it would seem a map showing the park on the local scale, not the big regional/continental locator map it has already.....Anyone have any idea where the northern boundary of the park is, i.e. frmo which sound/inlet/bay/headland on teh west to the which sound/bay/headland/inlet on the east? Skookum1 ( talk) 14:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Gwaii Haanas National Park | |
---|---|
Coordinates | 52°23′21″N 131°28′16″W / 52.38917°N 131.47111°W |
Area | 1,470 km2 (570 sq mi) |
Copy and paste Why do the coordinates appear twice (2x) in the (cropped) infobox? Peter Horn User talk 17:44, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
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I'd add reqmap but someone will just deleted it because "it alrady has a map". A close-up map showing the park and its features is needed; not just the Haida villages but also former mines and other settlements etc.
OK, Ninsntints can mean either the village or the chief, but it's the usual name for Skungwai in English and I think it shoudl be the article title; same as how Cumshewa rather than its original Haida name is how even the Museum of Civilization site labels that village. Main point about Ninstints/Skungwai is it needs a separate article; this article is about the park and its history, as a park and so on; Ninstints deserves its own article like other villages now have; currently Skungwai and Ninstints aren't even redireccts; maybe I'll change that but I'd rather see those redlinks becokme bluelinks/articles; maybe I'll get to it but I'm swamped and already put in time on the other village and mine stubs in this area..... Skookum1 ( talk) 21:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It's time to split this article; the UNESCO WH site template at the village section shows how much different content it is from the park; other Haida villages now have their own articles, it's time for this one. Question is which mame to use - Ninsints, granted, should maybe primarily be a "chief" aritcle but that's not the primary use of Ninstints in English, which is/was for this village. The Museum of Civililzation website has Skungwai, and the UNESCO name is [[SGang Gwaay Llnaagay]]. Which one is correct Haida orthography I wouldn't know, but even correct Haida orthography ain't necessarily theway to go. Wiki naming conventions might preclude otherwise, either going with how it's most commonly known, or it might draw on official language vs academic language, I don't know; I'll consult the general problem in a discussion of how to format indigenous-location titles, which is related to another discussion on the use of comma-province format; I used it on Cumshewa because it is/was a searchable place on BC's map/gazette and in other matierals; Ninstints/Skungwai was never "part of BC"; Tanu (Haida village) is the format I used to disambig in that case (see Tanu and others like it); alhtough at the moment that's only a redirect to new Clew, British Columbia. Anyway hopefully Pobblebonk is reading this and can offer some knowledge of the respective orthographies and why the two versions w/wo Llnaagay. I'll also be seeking input from BC and Canada and NorthAmnative and other related WPs; there must be an extant naming convention about this, although from experience I can attest there's not a lot of consistency over "indigenous wikispace" article-names/structures. (though we're trying...).21:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
[undent]I did quite a bit of research before taking a sally at how it's worded; only two of the sites I read are ref'd so far. I shoppsed around thevarious google links for Ninstints et al., and you'll find that a lot of the Sgang gwaii/gwaay links lead to the UNESCO designation; and that seems to be the same orthography for Haida Iv'e seen in Bringhurst's translations of Skaay and Ghandl; a variant is also found on the emilycarr.org site and again there seems a certain community of scholarship/art criticism that uses that, and yoour isolationg odf hte word "civilizaitotn" was interesting and adroit - taht this was a civilization decidedly more fashioanble with modern academics and intellectuals (and myself I'd change the title of various articles (e.g. Indigenous cilivization onf the Pacific Northwest Coast as a possibility) but it seems POV). Skungwai as noted is the spelling used by the Museum of Civilization, and apparently a different pack of academics and particular Haida-group preferences; while there is a standard orthography for Haida, there is no standard orthography for Haida in English, i.e. proper Haid orthography uses characters not found in English; not a wikirpbolem I know. Anyway because those mass of google hits really boil down to citations driving only from a few, AND it happens taht Skungwa/SGang Gwaay simply means "Red Cod Island"; "Llanagaay" has to be added to mean the village (it's a tiny island, most of it was/is t he village). One of the Cumshewa Inlet towns, Skedans I think, had aname that meant "red snapper village"; these may have had to do with the decor on the hosuefronts or poles, as was the case also with the name Grizzly-Bear Town ( Skedans). Hm, maybe I've got the cod/snapper thing wrong, maybe those are both translations for Skungwai....So while most Haida villages had several names, it seems (or at least three or foru), here there are two:
Again, Skungwai is only the name of the island. And given village names elsewhere - Masset, Skidegate, Cumshewa as I mentioned in hte article, also Kloo/ Tanu are known in most historical (not modern academic/political/artistic() sources by the name of their chief; as with "Ninstints". In Nuu-chah-nulth areas, names like Yuquot adn Opitsaht are those of the people, not t he location; the actual Nhuu-chah-=nulth vlanguage village-name is different. Because also Chief Skidegate and [[ Cumsehwa (chief) and Chief Masset and others will get their articles by those titles (or with the dab-parantheses as ine Cumshewa's). Chief Ninstints winds up being "according to format", at least within the Haid aregion; this isn't continent-wide or even region-wide. I'm no Haida expert, just trying to make sense of confusing and often prejudicially-toned sources; "corrupted by whites" etc. when in actuality if it's a mistake, how can it be a corruption. You can't be both wrong and misspeled at the same time; that a p.c. version of Ninstints also shows up - Nan Sdins, transltaed as "one who is two", confuses it all the more and also comes from taht trying to re-do history thing with modern POVism. Skookum1 ( talk) 01:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
In editing Gold Harbour, British Columbia right now, I wasn't sure if it was within Gwaii Haanas or not so left "Parks Canada" in the new infobox there...and I guess I was hoping to find a map here to resolve that question; but it would seem a map showing the park on the local scale, not the big regional/continental locator map it has already.....Anyone have any idea where the northern boundary of the park is, i.e. frmo which sound/inlet/bay/headland on teh west to the which sound/bay/headland/inlet on the east? Skookum1 ( talk) 14:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Gwaii Haanas National Park | |
---|---|
Coordinates | 52°23′21″N 131°28′16″W / 52.38917°N 131.47111°W |
Area | 1,470 km2 (570 sq mi) |
Copy and paste Why do the coordinates appear twice (2x) in the (cropped) infobox? Peter Horn User talk 17:44, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
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