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Please see: Wikipedia:External_links and Wikipedia:Spam for wikipedia policy on External links.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links
1.3 What should not be linked to:
1.3.3. Links that are added to promote a site, by the site operator or its affiliates. See External link spamming.
1.3.4. Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.
LDHan 14:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
An anonymous user has added the following (hopefully somebody can decide if it is worth including in the article, and fix it if so):
The many ways are playing the guzheng are...
Gou Tuo Mou Tuo: The first 4 fingers of the right hand are used to pluck the strings.
Da Cuo, Xiaocuo: Da Cuo is the pluck 2 similar strings of different octaves with your thumb and middle finger, Xiaocuo is to use your 2nd finger and thumb, this is more commonly used when you want to pluck string from the same octave.
Pi: Pi stands for to cut, with your thumb, you make an outward movement with your thumb.
Tuo: When you Tuo, you use either your thumb or 2nd finger to glide over a few strings simultaneously.
Gua, Huazhi, Luanzhi: These 3 words are classified under glissandos which is used to represent wind,waterfalls or such.
Yao Zhi: When you yaozhi, your 2nd finger and thumb interlock together to form an "ok" sign and you lift your pinky over the string's side and shake your finger to repeat the note over and over again.
Sao Yao: Same as yaozhi, just that you omit the pinky part and shake normally.
This article is full of commerical and promtional edits and links, most of them by User:petrm concerning Zou Lunlun and her commercial website. All wiki edits by User:petrm [ [1]] relate to guzheng, Zou Lunlun, and Hong Kong, so I suspect User:petrm to be either Zou Lunlun herself or more probably a business partner. LDHan 23:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
then thet shack thier ass and boggy to the music.¥{{}}ČɴÃ
I think that such a tag might be a good idea, although I’m not sure if it’ll stop the spam/vandalism. At first I thought he/she just didn’t know about wiki’s policy on this but now that he/she is doing it repeatedly unsigned, he/she must be aware of what they are doing and is just blatantly disregarding the good faith of all wiki users. One has to wonder about the intregity of businesses who use this sort of tactic to promote themselves. Don’t they realise it just makes them seem to be disreputable?
I think in the long term these methods of marketing and promotion, including the use of commercial websites which appear to be information websites, are counterproductive. LDHan 14:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there a good reason why the 2 pictures were removed? LDHan 01:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
If anyone knows anything about notable Guzheng players, please add to the list, ideally with some information about each player. LDHan 20:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the recent edits of the "Master Xu" guzheng company link, are the guzhengs advertised as being made by Master Xu actually made by him or not? The letter written by Xu states that they are not made by him or his sons. Badagnani 07:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I've created a set of user templates for guzheng players for them to use on their userpages, here: Category:Wikipedian guzheng players. -- Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 19:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, why was Wang Fei removed without good explanation? She is a known guzheng player. -- Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 17:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
There still seems to be spam and inappropriate edits to this article. Someone needs to commit themselves to completely reworking the article like I did to the guqin one. -- Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 01:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Were guzheng always made from Firmiana platanifolia wood, or was Paulownia ( Paulownia tomentosa) once used, as it still is in the koto or gayageum? Badagnani ( talk) 20:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I honestly don't know. All the modern instruments use wu tong/firmiana platanifolia (I got the species name from New Grove). But I expect they would have once used Paulownia? Perhaps a look into the Shosoin might help... STS 08:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drummerdaemon ( talk • contribs)
Thinking and wondering are not substitutes for having actual sources. The sources say "wu tong," not paulownia like kotos and gayageums (although that wood may have been used hundreds of years ago). Badagnani ( talk) 05:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, I guess that's the way I talk that I don't say things too certain as I consider that an offense to others. I apologize for that. I got the information from Chinese encyclopedia which specifically says "wu tong" as used in terms of musical instruments are actually "pao tong". I'll try to find online version for that later. Actually, there are quite a few Chinese articles saying that's a common misconception because the paulownia grows in north, and is generally called "wu tong" by the northerners. Just search google on "wu tong" in Chinese.
"pao tong" is also stated in many of the Guzheng textbooks as the wood for making the instrument. Is it a way I can scan the books and post on here?
Any way, despite what it might be made in the ancient time, the modern guzhengs all use paulownia. That's for sure. This is a big industry in Lan Kao growing paulownia for instruments supplying to all guzheng factories. I just think Wiki shouldn't be misleading because I found it very useful when I search other subjects. ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 06:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC).
I mean it's not wrong to call the wood "wu tong" or "tong", but it's very misleading as specifically saying it's Firmiana simplex. This specie generally doesn't grow well in the northern part of China. It only grows in the warm region in America too. It would be really hard to imagine in the ancient China where the culture development is centered in the north Xi'an later to Beijing, that the "wu tong" they refereed is Firmiana simplex.
I just realized some of what I said is summarized in Baidu Encyclopedia: http://baike.baidu.com/view/41082.htm See point 2, and also the poems citing "wu tong" at the bottom. It mentions the purple flower and described it as "sky is covered purple". That would not be Firmiana simplex. Paulownia is the one that has the purple flower.
By the way, how do I sign? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yukinachang ( talk • contribs) 06:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, Baidu Encyclopedia on "Tong Tree" says the "tong" is referred to different trees in different regions. In the yellow river region, the "tong" refers to "pao tong". http://baike.baidu.com/view/1188735.htm?func=retitle Yukinachang ( talk) 07:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I really go deep into the "pao tong" and "wu tong" issue. The first book about "wu tong" in Chinese history is written by a guy in Song dynasty called Chen Zhu. He spent all his life researching "wu tong" and made it into a book. It's acknowledged what he wrote is actually "pao tong". He probably never had never see a Firmiana simplex in his life. In the book, he said the "wu tong" is commonly used to make instruments. The book is now considered as the earliest scientific book on paulownia.
http://bbs.gxsd.com.cn/archiver/?tid-153416.html http://scholar.ilib.cn/A-QCode~zgns200202012.html http://www.agri-history.net/agriculturists/cz.htm Yukinachang ( talk) 07:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
三國陸璣《毛詩草木鳥獸蟲魚疏》分桐為青桐、赤桐、白桐、梧桐四種,稱白桐宜琴瑟,梓實桐皮 為椅,即梧桐。 This says white tong is good for making qin and se 12 晉陶弘景《本草集注》分桐為青桐、梧桐、白桐、岡桐四種,青桐葉皮青似梧而無子;梧桐色白, 葉似青桐而有子;白桐與岡桐無異,唯有花、子;岡桐無子,材中琴瑟。This also says white tong is good for qin and se 13 南北朝賈思勰《齊民要術》據《爾雅》及郭璞《爾雅》注之說,以榮桐、襯、梧皆梧桐也,分桐為 青桐、白桐、岡桐三類,謂白桐無子,冬結似子者乃明年之花房,材質可製樂器;梧桐又名青桐,以其 皮青,故名之,其子可食,味似菱芡,而材不中琴瑟... This specifically says green tong (Firmiana simplex) is not good for qin and se, and white tong (paulownia) is good for qin and se
宋寇宗奭《圖經衍義本草》稱桐有四種:白桐可斲琴者,開白花,不結子;荏桐早春先開淡紅花, 花成筒子,子作桐油;梧桐四月開淡黃小花,一如棗花,枝頭岀絲,墮地成油,霑漬衣履,五六月結子, 時人取炒為果,此即《禮記‧月令》所謂清明之日,桐始華者。岡桐無花,其質性體重而不中作琴瑟。This says white tong is good for qin and se, the oily tong is not good for qin and se.
明李時珍《本草綱目》分白桐、岡桐、荏桐、海桐、青桐、罌子桐六類,稱白桐即泡桐 This distinguishes the different tong wood by their skin color, white tong is paulownia....
陳翥《桐譜》所謂白花桐、紫花桐,應即賈思勰、陳藏器等所謂之白桐,皆屬今玄參科泡桐屬植物;white tong is paulownia
古籍所稱白花之白桐、紫花之紫桐,多可供器用或製琴瑟,材質佳,應即今經濟價值較高之玄参科泡 桐屬植物。white tong or purple flower tong is commonly used for qin and se and is today known as paulownia
The above information is from Essay of Prof. Zhou Mingyi that can be found at: http://www.lib.must.edu.tw/MHJ/doc/MJ032003.pdf
It appears that to use firmiana simplex as a translation for wu tong is only based on modern dictionary without considering how the term "wu tong" is used in the history and in different regions. It's still used to refer to different trees today. In Shanghai, "wu tong" refers to Platanus hispanica
that were planted by the French in the 19th century. Some will add "French" in front of "wu tong" to distinguish, but most people in Shanghai call Platanus hispanica "Wu Tong".
In most part to the north of Yangze river, "wu tong" refers to paulownia, while some parts in the south "wu tong" refers to firmiana simplex.
I wonder why there is no such confusion in the wiki page of Gayageum and koto, because they use the same Chinese term "wu tong" as the wood that makes the instruments, but people know they mean paulownia. In Korean is pronounced as "O-Dong" written in Chinese characters as 梧桐, and the Japanese kiri is written as 桐 or 梧桐. The characters "wu tong" appeared in Japanese literature wtih instrumental context is as early as in "Manyooshuu" 756A.D. which says "梧桐製の琴".(A koto made of Wu tong). Yukinachang ( talk) 21:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I kept thinking the problem is caused by the "wu tong" in the literature. If you guys are talking about the materials for guzheng in the modern time. Then there is no doubt that's "paulownia" from Lankao county.
Since Lankao county of Henan developed this big industry growing millions of paulownia tree every year, it's basically been the sole supplier for the guzheng soundboard. With the government support and huge profit involves, all other possibilities have been suppressed. The specific specie grown in Lankao is Paulownia elongata. The Lankao paulownia industry has a relative short history. The first tree was planted by Jiao Yu Lu, a governor in Henan at the time, in 1965. His intention was to grow trees to fight against the dusty wind, but accidentally created this big industry. (information from Lankao County website http://www.lankao.gov.cn/)
Also sources can be sited from all major guzheng factories: Dunhuang www.sh-dunhuang.com Tianyi www.ty21.com Jinyun www.jy-cn.cn Longfeng www.yzlongfeng.com All the above factories quoted they use "Lan Kao Pao Tong" Paulownia elongata as the materials for making guzheng soundboard in their websites.
Since it's hard to discuss under this page, I've posted this to : http://starvoid.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Guzheng&thread=1049 http://chinesezither.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=742 Yukinachang ( talk) 15:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
To add:
Add 轉調箏 (as seen at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E8%BD%89%E8%AA%BF%E7%AE%8F&search_type= )
Add 蝴蝶筝 (as seen at http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/5282881-1239512600.html ). Badagnani ( talk) 21:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I was hoping someone working on this article might be able to help sort things out at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Guzheng_01.jpg. I'm not at all expert on East Asian instruments, I just happen to have taken the photo in question ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Guzheng_01.jpg). It is perfectly possible that the store that had the instrument had mislabeled it: they are mainly an accordion store. Quite possibly I have, following them, titled the photo incorrectly, and described the instrument inaccurately. (Cross posted to Talk:Music of China.)- Jmabel | Talk 05:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:External links says "Wikipedia's purpose is not to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic". So, what is so special about each of the links that have been included?
The worst examples are:
But, even the links that are valid, seem excessive. We're opening the door to self-promotion. For instance, Video clips on Guzheng.hk site superficially is about the "guzheng", but is really a promotional vehicle for a specific artist, which it says "is a premier guzheng artist from northeast China,". It also sells merchandise, so we're giving a commercial web site free advertising. Whenever you have a large number of links, and don't impose high standards, it's very easy for people to slip in promotional links. -- Rob ( talk) 04:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Surely, Lou Harrison was American, not Russian. Norvo ( talk) 01:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
The notes are called "Sol" and "Si", no So and Ti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.92.16.238 ( talk) 17:42, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocean ziqiao ( talk • contribs) 23:17, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
This section reads like a brochure. How is this "information" relevant? Where is the evidence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.189.210.228 ( talk) 19:58, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm surprised to see that there isn't any reference to the film Red Cliff, in which these instruments are quite prominent, in this article. Maybe one could be added to the Popular Culture section? R. A. Simmons Talk 03:58, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
The current article confuses right and left hand playing styles and has stylistic information in the technique section. I will fix those. Also, I'll remove the link ("MusicDish*China Sounds Pod2 - Opening The Year Of The Tiger". Mi2N Music Industry News Network. Retrieved 28 February 2016.) as it puts the citation in the middle of the article and links directly to a product. JoBaWik ( talk) 16:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Through compiling references to bolster this article I've been impressed by the breadth of documented information available. /Guzheng needs far more than a few tweaks, it is severely lacking. I am working on a new version in my sandbox. But, the history of this instrument and the many aspects that tie into it are immense. What are others' thoughts on redoing this article as well as creating a second "History of" article to keep /Guzheng focused on the instrument/object? JoBaWik ( talk) 17:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Re: edit by 50.98.195.71 on 01 Dec 2017, removing information on the history of the instrument: until there is enough information here to create a separate historic article it should be left.
JoBaWik (
talk) 23:00, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Can we change the current main image? The Chinafest Düsseldorf one? It's blurry and you can barely see the instrument. How about something clearer like? Tooironic ( talk) 16:49, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Seconded. I'll swap out the photo. JoBaWik ( talk) 04:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Since when is Zhejiang province in northern China? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 17:25, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
An editor is removing the reference to 2500+ years of history in what I believe is a misreading of the source. I'm unsure if it is polite to tag an editor so I won't just in case, but let me put more information here in case other editors wish to weigh in.
First, my mistake: The citation has a typo in the author's name. It should be Lawergren; the citation had "Lawergen". It was a typo. The author exists; is credited on the first page of the chapter, is Professor Emeritus at Hunter College, and has this source as a publication on his publication page: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/physics/faculty/lawergren/publications
Second: The editor stated in edit notes that the cited paragraph did not back up the statement that there are 2500 years of history. This is incorrect. The paragraph reads: "Texts claim that the zheng was invented during the Qin dynasty (221-206 B.c.). But the excavated prototypes come from sites in south- east China dating from the fifth century B.C. in the ancient territory of Yue." Going off the archaeological record, 500BC + 2000+ years of CE = 2500+ years of history. If the archaeological record was ignored, and only texts were used, that would put the history of the instrument at ~2200 years of history. The sentence of the wikipedia article used the 2500 years backed up by the archaeological record in this source.
Third, the use of "pages=152" in the citation. That is the total number of pages in the work. If that is not what the "pages" field is for then let's certainly omit it.
I will leave this here for now; it would be great for another editor to check if this is accurate, and if yes, return the corrected citation and information to the article, and/or comment here. JoBaWik ( talk) 05:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
I've just lightly copy-edited parts of both this article and guqin. I couldn't help noticing that the Table of Contents for the Guqin article is both comprehensive and well arranged, covering most aspects of general interest in a fairly logical order. For reference, that ToC presently reads as below:
Contents
- 1 History
- 1.1 Guqin literature
- 2 Schools, societies and players
- 2.1 Historical schools
- 2.2 Guqin societies
- 2.3 Players
- 2.3.1 Historical
- 2.3.2 Contemporary
- 3 Performance
- 3.1 Playing technique
- 3.2 Tablature and notation
- 3.3 Repertoire
- 3.3.1 Transcription
- 3.3.2 Rhythm in qin music
- 4 Organology
- 4.1 Construction
- 4.2 Strings
- 5 Tuning
- 6 Playing context
- 6.1 Ritual use of the qin
- 6.2 Qin aesthetics
- 7 In popular culture
- 8 Electric guqin
- 9 Related instruments
- 10 Media
- 11 See also
- 12 Footnotes
- 13 References
- 14 External links
The present article already has several similar sections and headings. But clearly lacking are discussions of notation, rhythm, construction, and media. And there may be something useful to say about the aesthetics of guzheng performance. Perhaps we could keep the ToC above in mind as a useful skeleton — with the obvious changes — when expanding and improving the current article. yoyo ( talk) 14:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
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— Assignment last updated by YangyangF ( talk) 04:31, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 January 2021 and 29 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CSHHKX (
article contribs).
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 January 2021 and 29 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CSHHKX.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2021 and 22 December 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Skylercafferata. Peer reviewers:
RobieHillier,
Peteryebuzhidaogaiqushenmemingzi.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2020 and 6 December 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Haomimimi.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Please see: Wikipedia:External_links and Wikipedia:Spam for wikipedia policy on External links.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links
1.3 What should not be linked to:
1.3.3. Links that are added to promote a site, by the site operator or its affiliates. See External link spamming.
1.3.4. Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.
LDHan 14:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
An anonymous user has added the following (hopefully somebody can decide if it is worth including in the article, and fix it if so):
The many ways are playing the guzheng are...
Gou Tuo Mou Tuo: The first 4 fingers of the right hand are used to pluck the strings.
Da Cuo, Xiaocuo: Da Cuo is the pluck 2 similar strings of different octaves with your thumb and middle finger, Xiaocuo is to use your 2nd finger and thumb, this is more commonly used when you want to pluck string from the same octave.
Pi: Pi stands for to cut, with your thumb, you make an outward movement with your thumb.
Tuo: When you Tuo, you use either your thumb or 2nd finger to glide over a few strings simultaneously.
Gua, Huazhi, Luanzhi: These 3 words are classified under glissandos which is used to represent wind,waterfalls or such.
Yao Zhi: When you yaozhi, your 2nd finger and thumb interlock together to form an "ok" sign and you lift your pinky over the string's side and shake your finger to repeat the note over and over again.
Sao Yao: Same as yaozhi, just that you omit the pinky part and shake normally.
This article is full of commerical and promtional edits and links, most of them by User:petrm concerning Zou Lunlun and her commercial website. All wiki edits by User:petrm [ [1]] relate to guzheng, Zou Lunlun, and Hong Kong, so I suspect User:petrm to be either Zou Lunlun herself or more probably a business partner. LDHan 23:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
then thet shack thier ass and boggy to the music.¥{{}}ČɴÃ
I think that such a tag might be a good idea, although I’m not sure if it’ll stop the spam/vandalism. At first I thought he/she just didn’t know about wiki’s policy on this but now that he/she is doing it repeatedly unsigned, he/she must be aware of what they are doing and is just blatantly disregarding the good faith of all wiki users. One has to wonder about the intregity of businesses who use this sort of tactic to promote themselves. Don’t they realise it just makes them seem to be disreputable?
I think in the long term these methods of marketing and promotion, including the use of commercial websites which appear to be information websites, are counterproductive. LDHan 14:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there a good reason why the 2 pictures were removed? LDHan 01:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
If anyone knows anything about notable Guzheng players, please add to the list, ideally with some information about each player. LDHan 20:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the recent edits of the "Master Xu" guzheng company link, are the guzhengs advertised as being made by Master Xu actually made by him or not? The letter written by Xu states that they are not made by him or his sons. Badagnani 07:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I've created a set of user templates for guzheng players for them to use on their userpages, here: Category:Wikipedian guzheng players. -- Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 19:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, why was Wang Fei removed without good explanation? She is a known guzheng player. -- Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 17:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
There still seems to be spam and inappropriate edits to this article. Someone needs to commit themselves to completely reworking the article like I did to the guqin one. -- Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 01:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Were guzheng always made from Firmiana platanifolia wood, or was Paulownia ( Paulownia tomentosa) once used, as it still is in the koto or gayageum? Badagnani ( talk) 20:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I honestly don't know. All the modern instruments use wu tong/firmiana platanifolia (I got the species name from New Grove). But I expect they would have once used Paulownia? Perhaps a look into the Shosoin might help... STS 08:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drummerdaemon ( talk • contribs)
Thinking and wondering are not substitutes for having actual sources. The sources say "wu tong," not paulownia like kotos and gayageums (although that wood may have been used hundreds of years ago). Badagnani ( talk) 05:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, I guess that's the way I talk that I don't say things too certain as I consider that an offense to others. I apologize for that. I got the information from Chinese encyclopedia which specifically says "wu tong" as used in terms of musical instruments are actually "pao tong". I'll try to find online version for that later. Actually, there are quite a few Chinese articles saying that's a common misconception because the paulownia grows in north, and is generally called "wu tong" by the northerners. Just search google on "wu tong" in Chinese.
"pao tong" is also stated in many of the Guzheng textbooks as the wood for making the instrument. Is it a way I can scan the books and post on here?
Any way, despite what it might be made in the ancient time, the modern guzhengs all use paulownia. That's for sure. This is a big industry in Lan Kao growing paulownia for instruments supplying to all guzheng factories. I just think Wiki shouldn't be misleading because I found it very useful when I search other subjects. ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 06:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC).
I mean it's not wrong to call the wood "wu tong" or "tong", but it's very misleading as specifically saying it's Firmiana simplex. This specie generally doesn't grow well in the northern part of China. It only grows in the warm region in America too. It would be really hard to imagine in the ancient China where the culture development is centered in the north Xi'an later to Beijing, that the "wu tong" they refereed is Firmiana simplex.
I just realized some of what I said is summarized in Baidu Encyclopedia: http://baike.baidu.com/view/41082.htm See point 2, and also the poems citing "wu tong" at the bottom. It mentions the purple flower and described it as "sky is covered purple". That would not be Firmiana simplex. Paulownia is the one that has the purple flower.
By the way, how do I sign? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yukinachang ( talk • contribs) 06:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, Baidu Encyclopedia on "Tong Tree" says the "tong" is referred to different trees in different regions. In the yellow river region, the "tong" refers to "pao tong". http://baike.baidu.com/view/1188735.htm?func=retitle Yukinachang ( talk) 07:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I really go deep into the "pao tong" and "wu tong" issue. The first book about "wu tong" in Chinese history is written by a guy in Song dynasty called Chen Zhu. He spent all his life researching "wu tong" and made it into a book. It's acknowledged what he wrote is actually "pao tong". He probably never had never see a Firmiana simplex in his life. In the book, he said the "wu tong" is commonly used to make instruments. The book is now considered as the earliest scientific book on paulownia.
http://bbs.gxsd.com.cn/archiver/?tid-153416.html http://scholar.ilib.cn/A-QCode~zgns200202012.html http://www.agri-history.net/agriculturists/cz.htm Yukinachang ( talk) 07:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
三國陸璣《毛詩草木鳥獸蟲魚疏》分桐為青桐、赤桐、白桐、梧桐四種,稱白桐宜琴瑟,梓實桐皮 為椅,即梧桐。 This says white tong is good for making qin and se 12 晉陶弘景《本草集注》分桐為青桐、梧桐、白桐、岡桐四種,青桐葉皮青似梧而無子;梧桐色白, 葉似青桐而有子;白桐與岡桐無異,唯有花、子;岡桐無子,材中琴瑟。This also says white tong is good for qin and se 13 南北朝賈思勰《齊民要術》據《爾雅》及郭璞《爾雅》注之說,以榮桐、襯、梧皆梧桐也,分桐為 青桐、白桐、岡桐三類,謂白桐無子,冬結似子者乃明年之花房,材質可製樂器;梧桐又名青桐,以其 皮青,故名之,其子可食,味似菱芡,而材不中琴瑟... This specifically says green tong (Firmiana simplex) is not good for qin and se, and white tong (paulownia) is good for qin and se
宋寇宗奭《圖經衍義本草》稱桐有四種:白桐可斲琴者,開白花,不結子;荏桐早春先開淡紅花, 花成筒子,子作桐油;梧桐四月開淡黃小花,一如棗花,枝頭岀絲,墮地成油,霑漬衣履,五六月結子, 時人取炒為果,此即《禮記‧月令》所謂清明之日,桐始華者。岡桐無花,其質性體重而不中作琴瑟。This says white tong is good for qin and se, the oily tong is not good for qin and se.
明李時珍《本草綱目》分白桐、岡桐、荏桐、海桐、青桐、罌子桐六類,稱白桐即泡桐 This distinguishes the different tong wood by their skin color, white tong is paulownia....
陳翥《桐譜》所謂白花桐、紫花桐,應即賈思勰、陳藏器等所謂之白桐,皆屬今玄參科泡桐屬植物;white tong is paulownia
古籍所稱白花之白桐、紫花之紫桐,多可供器用或製琴瑟,材質佳,應即今經濟價值較高之玄参科泡 桐屬植物。white tong or purple flower tong is commonly used for qin and se and is today known as paulownia
The above information is from Essay of Prof. Zhou Mingyi that can be found at: http://www.lib.must.edu.tw/MHJ/doc/MJ032003.pdf
It appears that to use firmiana simplex as a translation for wu tong is only based on modern dictionary without considering how the term "wu tong" is used in the history and in different regions. It's still used to refer to different trees today. In Shanghai, "wu tong" refers to Platanus hispanica
that were planted by the French in the 19th century. Some will add "French" in front of "wu tong" to distinguish, but most people in Shanghai call Platanus hispanica "Wu Tong".
In most part to the north of Yangze river, "wu tong" refers to paulownia, while some parts in the south "wu tong" refers to firmiana simplex.
I wonder why there is no such confusion in the wiki page of Gayageum and koto, because they use the same Chinese term "wu tong" as the wood that makes the instruments, but people know they mean paulownia. In Korean is pronounced as "O-Dong" written in Chinese characters as 梧桐, and the Japanese kiri is written as 桐 or 梧桐. The characters "wu tong" appeared in Japanese literature wtih instrumental context is as early as in "Manyooshuu" 756A.D. which says "梧桐製の琴".(A koto made of Wu tong). Yukinachang ( talk) 21:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I kept thinking the problem is caused by the "wu tong" in the literature. If you guys are talking about the materials for guzheng in the modern time. Then there is no doubt that's "paulownia" from Lankao county.
Since Lankao county of Henan developed this big industry growing millions of paulownia tree every year, it's basically been the sole supplier for the guzheng soundboard. With the government support and huge profit involves, all other possibilities have been suppressed. The specific specie grown in Lankao is Paulownia elongata. The Lankao paulownia industry has a relative short history. The first tree was planted by Jiao Yu Lu, a governor in Henan at the time, in 1965. His intention was to grow trees to fight against the dusty wind, but accidentally created this big industry. (information from Lankao County website http://www.lankao.gov.cn/)
Also sources can be sited from all major guzheng factories: Dunhuang www.sh-dunhuang.com Tianyi www.ty21.com Jinyun www.jy-cn.cn Longfeng www.yzlongfeng.com All the above factories quoted they use "Lan Kao Pao Tong" Paulownia elongata as the materials for making guzheng soundboard in their websites.
Since it's hard to discuss under this page, I've posted this to : http://starvoid.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Guzheng&thread=1049 http://chinesezither.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=742 Yukinachang ( talk) 15:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
To add:
Add 轉調箏 (as seen at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E8%BD%89%E8%AA%BF%E7%AE%8F&search_type= )
Add 蝴蝶筝 (as seen at http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/5282881-1239512600.html ). Badagnani ( talk) 21:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I was hoping someone working on this article might be able to help sort things out at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Guzheng_01.jpg. I'm not at all expert on East Asian instruments, I just happen to have taken the photo in question ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Guzheng_01.jpg). It is perfectly possible that the store that had the instrument had mislabeled it: they are mainly an accordion store. Quite possibly I have, following them, titled the photo incorrectly, and described the instrument inaccurately. (Cross posted to Talk:Music of China.)- Jmabel | Talk 05:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:External links says "Wikipedia's purpose is not to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic". So, what is so special about each of the links that have been included?
The worst examples are:
But, even the links that are valid, seem excessive. We're opening the door to self-promotion. For instance, Video clips on Guzheng.hk site superficially is about the "guzheng", but is really a promotional vehicle for a specific artist, which it says "is a premier guzheng artist from northeast China,". It also sells merchandise, so we're giving a commercial web site free advertising. Whenever you have a large number of links, and don't impose high standards, it's very easy for people to slip in promotional links. -- Rob ( talk) 04:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Surely, Lou Harrison was American, not Russian. Norvo ( talk) 01:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
The notes are called "Sol" and "Si", no So and Ti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.92.16.238 ( talk) 17:42, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocean ziqiao ( talk • contribs) 23:17, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
This section reads like a brochure. How is this "information" relevant? Where is the evidence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.189.210.228 ( talk) 19:58, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm surprised to see that there isn't any reference to the film Red Cliff, in which these instruments are quite prominent, in this article. Maybe one could be added to the Popular Culture section? R. A. Simmons Talk 03:58, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
The current article confuses right and left hand playing styles and has stylistic information in the technique section. I will fix those. Also, I'll remove the link ("MusicDish*China Sounds Pod2 - Opening The Year Of The Tiger". Mi2N Music Industry News Network. Retrieved 28 February 2016.) as it puts the citation in the middle of the article and links directly to a product. JoBaWik ( talk) 16:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Through compiling references to bolster this article I've been impressed by the breadth of documented information available. /Guzheng needs far more than a few tweaks, it is severely lacking. I am working on a new version in my sandbox. But, the history of this instrument and the many aspects that tie into it are immense. What are others' thoughts on redoing this article as well as creating a second "History of" article to keep /Guzheng focused on the instrument/object? JoBaWik ( talk) 17:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Re: edit by 50.98.195.71 on 01 Dec 2017, removing information on the history of the instrument: until there is enough information here to create a separate historic article it should be left.
JoBaWik (
talk) 23:00, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Can we change the current main image? The Chinafest Düsseldorf one? It's blurry and you can barely see the instrument. How about something clearer like? Tooironic ( talk) 16:49, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Seconded. I'll swap out the photo. JoBaWik ( talk) 04:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Since when is Zhejiang province in northern China? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 17:25, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
An editor is removing the reference to 2500+ years of history in what I believe is a misreading of the source. I'm unsure if it is polite to tag an editor so I won't just in case, but let me put more information here in case other editors wish to weigh in.
First, my mistake: The citation has a typo in the author's name. It should be Lawergren; the citation had "Lawergen". It was a typo. The author exists; is credited on the first page of the chapter, is Professor Emeritus at Hunter College, and has this source as a publication on his publication page: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/physics/faculty/lawergren/publications
Second: The editor stated in edit notes that the cited paragraph did not back up the statement that there are 2500 years of history. This is incorrect. The paragraph reads: "Texts claim that the zheng was invented during the Qin dynasty (221-206 B.c.). But the excavated prototypes come from sites in south- east China dating from the fifth century B.C. in the ancient territory of Yue." Going off the archaeological record, 500BC + 2000+ years of CE = 2500+ years of history. If the archaeological record was ignored, and only texts were used, that would put the history of the instrument at ~2200 years of history. The sentence of the wikipedia article used the 2500 years backed up by the archaeological record in this source.
Third, the use of "pages=152" in the citation. That is the total number of pages in the work. If that is not what the "pages" field is for then let's certainly omit it.
I will leave this here for now; it would be great for another editor to check if this is accurate, and if yes, return the corrected citation and information to the article, and/or comment here. JoBaWik ( talk) 05:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
I've just lightly copy-edited parts of both this article and guqin. I couldn't help noticing that the Table of Contents for the Guqin article is both comprehensive and well arranged, covering most aspects of general interest in a fairly logical order. For reference, that ToC presently reads as below:
Contents
- 1 History
- 1.1 Guqin literature
- 2 Schools, societies and players
- 2.1 Historical schools
- 2.2 Guqin societies
- 2.3 Players
- 2.3.1 Historical
- 2.3.2 Contemporary
- 3 Performance
- 3.1 Playing technique
- 3.2 Tablature and notation
- 3.3 Repertoire
- 3.3.1 Transcription
- 3.3.2 Rhythm in qin music
- 4 Organology
- 4.1 Construction
- 4.2 Strings
- 5 Tuning
- 6 Playing context
- 6.1 Ritual use of the qin
- 6.2 Qin aesthetics
- 7 In popular culture
- 8 Electric guqin
- 9 Related instruments
- 10 Media
- 11 See also
- 12 Footnotes
- 13 References
- 14 External links
The present article already has several similar sections and headings. But clearly lacking are discussions of notation, rhythm, construction, and media. And there may be something useful to say about the aesthetics of guzheng performance. Perhaps we could keep the ToC above in mind as a useful skeleton — with the obvious changes — when expanding and improving the current article. yoyo ( talk) 14:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
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article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by YangyangF ( talk) 04:31, 3 November 2022 (UTC)