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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
Opening section concludes " although another old celebration, Halloween, has lately increased in popularity, and according to some writers, may threaten the continued observance of 5 November" yet this fact is never supported in the article. Use of "some writers" sounds wishy-washy. Metre01 ( talk) 12:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
A lot of this articles focus on the present day bonfire night makes it sound like it's all but died out. But from my personal experience Bonfire night is as celebrated now as it was in the late 80's and early 90's. Is the whole decline thing actually impartial? I don't see how we can't find counter arguments as no where tends to write about Bonfire night being consistently popular because there's no need to. Patternofknives ( talk) 23:59, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
This festival isn't known as Guy Fawkes Day. I've heard Amerucabs mistakenly call it Guy Fawkes Day, but that doesn't mean that it's correct.-- 176.25.9.50 ( talk) 13:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
There's a section titled other countries but it just talks about the US/North America. What of other parts, NZ, Oz, South Africa, ...? No idea which celebrate it - NZ does I know but ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.163.199.182 ( talk) 08:32, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. There is clearly no support for the rename to take place (Guy Fawkes Night -> Bonfire Night). The scope of the article, and whether Bonfire Night should be merged here, is not clear. There is an RfC below to determine the scope of the article. Following this, if support seems likely, a merge request for Bonfire Night to Guy Fawkes Night can be submitted. 81.152.36.213 ( talk) 17:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Guy Fawkes Night →
Bonfire Night – The most common name for this event appears to be "Bonfire Night". See Google Books
[1], where "Bonfire Night" is twice as common as "Guy Fawkes Night".
Bonfire Night is already a very small article simply summarising this one. The few details on that page about bonfire traditions elsewhere (
Eleventh Night and
St John's Eve) can be merged with
Bonfire Night (disambiguation): these nights are infrequently referred to as "Bonfire Night" (often just by their proper names, occasionally as a lower case "bonfire night"). To see this, notice that Google results
[2] for "Bonfire Night" mention overwhelmingly the contents of this page, not Eleventh Night or St John's Eve.
81.152.36.213 (
talk)
12:03, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
From the article:
"In 1677 elements of Elizabeth I's Accession Day celebration of 17 November were incorporated into the Fifth, with the burning of large bonfires, a large effigy of the pope—his belly filled with live cats "who squalled most hideously as soon as they felt the fire"—and two effigies of devils "whispering in his ear". Two years later, as the exclusion crisis was reaching its zenith, an observer noted the "many bonfires and burning of popes as has ever been seen". Violent scenes in 1682 forced London's militia into action, and to prevent any repetition the following year a proclamation was issued, banning bonfires and fireworks."
This section is misleading, Pope burnings were always far more closely associated with Accession Day than with Guy Fawkes Day/Night. This continued to be the case after 1677; the largest recorded Pope burning, with 200,000 spectators, took place on November 17th 1679. The present wording suggests that the Guy Fawkes celebrations arrogated Pope burning from the Accession Day celebrations and this was not the case. The latter part of the above quote certainly relates to Nov. 17th rather than Nov. 5th celebrations. The wording should be made less ambiguous.
My source for this is: Harris, T. (1990) London Crowds in the Reign of Charles II: Propaganda and Politics from the Restoration Until the Exclusion Crisis, Cambridge University Press. Incidentally, a book written by a real academic. Urselius ( talk) 13:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Parrot of Doom and I have both reverted the addition of this paragraph:
The size and level of popular participation in the modern celebration within Britain can be gleaned from UK government online sources, the most recent being for 2012. While only 29% of adults will actually participate in an activity to celebrate Bonfire Night (Guy Fawkes Night) those who do take part are expected to spend an estimated £386 million. 12% of adults will buy fireworks to use at home or take to a party, 12% of UK adults will either attend or host a party, however, 29% of adults expect to attend an organised fireworks display. Not everyone is enthusiastic about private celebrations, with 67% of adults saying that fireworks “should only be let off at properly organised displays”. [3]
My concerns here are that first, while we claim to be gleaning information from "UK government online sources", this source is not that - it's actually a market research survey. Second, I question the reliability of this source for inclusion here. The argument made in restoring it was that something is better than nothing - no, let's see if we can get something acceptable via discussion here first, per the close of the RfC. Nikkimaria ( talk) 16:32, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Nikkimaria you write "If this is to retain FA status, it needs to use only high-quality reliable sources". Wikipedia has a requirement for content to be supported by reliable sources for which there is a policy have definition. What do you think is the definition for "high-quality reliable sources"? -- PBS ( talk) 07:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
@ User:Parrot of Doom "through reliable, high-quality sourcing" where is high-quality sourcing defined and if it is not what do you think it means? -- PBS ( talk) 07:26, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
"Brits expected to spend over £650 million celebrating Bonfire Night and Halloween" is a press release by YouGov (see Bonfire Night Halloween SixthSense press release where the PDF is offered for download).
Press releases fall under "Self-pubished" material for the WP:V policy. As such it cannot be used for claims on third parties like "Brit consumers", "UK adults" or whoever else outside YouGov, per WP:SELFPUB. "In 2012 YouGov published the results of an online survey regarding Bonfire Night participation" is about all that can be retrieved from the source for Wikipedia.
I suppose the remaining issue is whether we wouldn't be giving WP:UNDUE weight to a press release, unless content from YouGov's market intelligence report regarding Bonfire Night & Halloween was picked up in reliable sources outside the market research agency. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't mean direct quotation, I mean a mention of published modern day governmental guidance, and the refutation of 'nannyism' concerning the safety of fireworks and bonfires. Urselius ( talk) 20:22, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Re: picked up in reliable sources outside the market research agency - Some of the statistics in the press release are included in a BBC piece that is already used as the source for 'BBC's Tom de Castella...' in the present article. [4]. AnonNep ( talk) 09:05, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
A book, The English Year by Steve Roud, Penguin UK, 2008, has a whole section, see p. 462, describing parkin, with a recipe. This section unequivocally connects parkin with Bonfire Night/Guy Fawkes Night.
This should make the subject admissible to the article; it is a book, it has been published by a reputable publisher, it is not a passing reference and it is intimately connected in the narrative of the book to Guy Fawkes Night. As a reputably published aspect of the folk celebration it is therefore not trivial and not irrelevant to the subject of this article. Urselius ( talk) 14:14, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Several edits have been undone by Editor Sagaciousphil with an edit summary referring to "last clean version". That is not an adequate reason for such an undo. The undone edits were valid. Chjoaygame ( talk) 08:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
This is celebrated throughout the country, and not confined to just the island of Great Britain.-- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 16:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
The "perceived" evils of Popery? These were not perceived. The Catholic Church was particularly pernicious under Mary Tudor, and Judge Jeffreys made a mockery of justice by having protestants executed en masse. The Statue of 1689 makes it plain the excesses perpetrated by the Catholics over the previous 150yrs. 203.87.98.101 ( talk) 06:58, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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See also Guy Fawkes Guy Fawkes Mask
38.104.209.46 ( talk) 18:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Since the PC-inspired restrictions on selling fireworks, Guy Fawkes Night has become less prominent in New Zealand. However the biggest threat seems to be coming from the American Halloween celebrations, which has even started to appropriate the setting off of fireworks - a major retail chain (already notorious for importing goods at the expense of New Zealand manufacturers) having gone so far as to promote the sale of "Halloween Fireworks". Royalcourtier ( talk) 05:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
The state of GFN in South Africa is alluded to in a 2010 article as declining. I added a reference to a current article (Nov 5), which describes the current GFN situation in Capetown. (version https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Guy_Fawkes_Night&oldid=748024234)
User:Parrot of Doom reverted the link, with the question (in the comment) " (what is this for?)".
I re-reverted the link, explaining (again, in the comment) : "What is this for? Last ref was 2010 ... GFN still alive and well in ZA 2016" -- User:Parrot of Doom deleted it again (flagging it as "minor", possibly so I wouldn't get an alert?)
a) I object to the deletion ... the information is IMHO relevant to the article, though it doesn't necessarily warrant a paragraph in the text -- though I'd be happy to provide that -- and maybe incorporate the NZ status too. b) I object to it's being deleted and re-deleted without discussion here. Alanf777 ( talk) 23:59, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Someone on WikiProject Boston suggested creating an article about Pope's Night (Pope Night/Pope Day/Pope's Day). The "In other countries" section of this article looks pretty good to me, so for now I'm just going to redirect "Pope's Night" there. At some point, though, it might be nice to have a separate article just for Boston that can be expanded. Then I'm thinking we'd briefly summarize it here and provide a "main article" link to that article. Any objections, let me know. --MopTop ( talk) 18:58, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
I have reverted this edit by John beta ( talk · contribs) because it changed from {{ Citation}} to {{ Cite news}}. The citation template, rather than Citation style 1, is generally used in this article. WP:CITEVAR calls for the established citation stye of an article be left unchanged, and to be consistent throughout the article, unless a consensus for a change is reached on the talk page. Jc3s5h ( talk) 16:20, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
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In the section Origins and history in England/Guy Fawkes Day the sentence
should be edited to delete the word "Caledonian". It's redundant, since "unlike in Scotland" already tells us it's talking about Scotland. It seems to have been inserted just so that someone could show off his knowledge of the word, unless it's an unmarked verbatim quote from the source. 68.170.182.127 ( talk) 05:24, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
The article states On 17 November 1677, anti-Catholic fervour saw the Accession Day tilt marked by the burning of a large effigy of the pope, but the article Accession Day tilt states that this festival was discontinued 50 years earlier. Which is correct? Should it be 1577? Tigerboy1966 09:41, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Article currently reads in part Towards the end of the 18th century reports appear of children begging for money with effigies of Guy Fawkes.... In 1956 in Wantage this was still the practice (I was there). Senior primary age children would go door to door with the scarecrow-like figure of old clothes and straw that they had made and ask "penny for the Guy?" and often get one. The money raised was to be spent on firecrackers and generally was (although licorice allsorts also sold particularly well in that week). At the time this was perhaps the English equivalent of trick or treat.
Now I'm not a reliable source of course, and later in the article there are sourced references to the decline of the practice (notably a source from 2005). But our article currently does give a misleading impression IMO, and perhaps this source is not as reliable as it might be! I suspect that the sources quoted focus on urban England, and that in the smaller towns the practice continued peacefully (if a twopenny bunger can be described as peaceful) for far longer than in urban areas.
If any of that can be sourced it would improve the article. Andrewa ( talk) 18:33, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
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{{subst:trim
The stupid bloody title of the page
In the UK (You know, the country where this commemoration is actually held) NOBODY calls it "Guy Fawkes Night" - we ALL call it "Bonfire Night"
This is incorrect. I've heard it called Guy Fawkes Night many times. What I have NEVER heard before yesterday is "Guy Fawkes Day". Where did that come from? Google? Kickaha Wolfenhaut ( talk) 10:46, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
yet barely gets a mention here. Instead, nearly a third of this article is about Guy Fawkes in regards to how it relates to the USA where it is basically unknown. Is wikipedia only about the USA and how things in the world related to the USA?
117.20.4.11 (
talk)
13:37, 13 August 2018 (UTC)Glen
good point no one gives a damn that the USA doesnt celebrate it. The americanisation of wikipedia is getting worse these days. An idea for the editors why not talk about who does celebrate it rather than who doesn't? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.14.189 ( talk) 13:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
According to Avax.news: Guy Fawkes day is celebrated mainly in England by burning his effigy on a bonfire to mark a foiled plot to blow up Parliament in 1605, but Guy Fawkes Day has a different meaning in South Africa, where it is a day of absurd cross-dressing. Comical troupes of children in clumsy make-up and adult clothing sing special Guy Fawkes songs and dance in the streets as they playfully beg for coins from passing admirers. (Photo by Themba Hadebe/Associated Press). 2607:FEA8:1DE0:7B4:343F:D1:7A8E:574D ( talk) 19:58, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Literally NOBODY in the UK calls November the 5th "Guy Fawkes Night". I am literally flabbergasted that this utter nonsense is even a thing. Literally NOBODY calls it that. It is "Bonfire Night" to ALL of us — Preceding unsigned comment added by FimusTauri ( talk • contribs)
If you were to read this Wikipedia article, you'd get the impression that Guy Fawkes is (a) usually referred to by that name in the UK and (b) of trivial concern in NZ. It's harder to demonstrate the pervasiveness of Bonfire Night other than by anecdote, but (b) is easily demonstrated and was once substantiated and everything in the article before being removed (as far as I could tell) by Parrot of Doom. Consider, for example, that the only time fireworks are available for sale in NZ is around Guy Fawkes and considerable attention is given to its/fireworks' nuisance properties in the media. This is not simply a question of balance, weight or whatever Wikipediaism is appropriate but, in fact, of Wikipedia and editors of this article going out of their way to create an article that misleads just as much as it informs.
I'd fix it myself, but it's fairly evident that there has been a systematic attempt to create this situation by, at a minimum, Parrot of Doom. In this context, an ignorance of Wikipedia's habits of thought is a serious hindrance. Is there some group of volunteers who look at articles to see if this kind of manipulation happens? 125.237.47.183 ( talk) 16:56, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
There's some comment on American style Halloween antics helping the decline of Bonfire night/GFN. I can recall the restrictions on bonfires (what we could burn) and personal fireworks to displays helping kill off the huge popularity of GFN. Anyone any thoughts or links on this? Halbared ( talk) 12:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
User:Nikkimaria you reverted my edits, climing WP:CITEVAR as the reason. The citation style in this article is mixed and not consistent. All I have tried to do is make the citation style unform, harmonised and consistent , so that the article is easy to read and edit. I am going to restore my edits which are inline with with the following from WP:CITEVAR
Generally considered helpful The following are standard practice:
Wayne Jayes ( talk) 12:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I read that as saying that referring to this day/event as "Bonfire Night" predominantly happens in Newfoundland, and therefore that this usage is rare elsewhere. But "Bonfire Night" is what it is called in the UK, or at least GB. See Bonfire Night. If this page were not protected, I would have just removed "(predominantly Newfoundland)". 86.24.222.159 ( talk) 22:08, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Hear! Hear! I've lived in both the north west and the south of England for the last sixty three years and have never, I repeat, NEVER, heard "BONFIRE NIGHT" referred to as Guy Fawkes Night. It's very annoying when young Americans seem to know more about English things than the English do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.249.162 ( talk) 19:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
In the immediate aftermath of the 5 November arrest of Guy Fawkes, caught guarding a cache of explosives placed beneath the House of Lords, James's Council allowed the public to celebrate the king's survival with bonfires, so long as they were "without any danger or disorder". This made 1605 the first year the plot's failure was celebrated.
I think clarification is needed as to how soon after Guy Fawkes' arrest the meeting took place and the failure of the plot was celebrated. Was the timing of the arrest reported (albeit it would be written retrospectively)? In a society less instantaneously paced than ours, with slower transport and communication means available, it is hard to believe the first celebratory bonfires were held on the day itself. Cloptonson ( talk) 14:12, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
Opening section concludes " although another old celebration, Halloween, has lately increased in popularity, and according to some writers, may threaten the continued observance of 5 November" yet this fact is never supported in the article. Use of "some writers" sounds wishy-washy. Metre01 ( talk) 12:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
A lot of this articles focus on the present day bonfire night makes it sound like it's all but died out. But from my personal experience Bonfire night is as celebrated now as it was in the late 80's and early 90's. Is the whole decline thing actually impartial? I don't see how we can't find counter arguments as no where tends to write about Bonfire night being consistently popular because there's no need to. Patternofknives ( talk) 23:59, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
This festival isn't known as Guy Fawkes Day. I've heard Amerucabs mistakenly call it Guy Fawkes Day, but that doesn't mean that it's correct.-- 176.25.9.50 ( talk) 13:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
There's a section titled other countries but it just talks about the US/North America. What of other parts, NZ, Oz, South Africa, ...? No idea which celebrate it - NZ does I know but ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.163.199.182 ( talk) 08:32, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. There is clearly no support for the rename to take place (Guy Fawkes Night -> Bonfire Night). The scope of the article, and whether Bonfire Night should be merged here, is not clear. There is an RfC below to determine the scope of the article. Following this, if support seems likely, a merge request for Bonfire Night to Guy Fawkes Night can be submitted. 81.152.36.213 ( talk) 17:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Guy Fawkes Night →
Bonfire Night – The most common name for this event appears to be "Bonfire Night". See Google Books
[1], where "Bonfire Night" is twice as common as "Guy Fawkes Night".
Bonfire Night is already a very small article simply summarising this one. The few details on that page about bonfire traditions elsewhere (
Eleventh Night and
St John's Eve) can be merged with
Bonfire Night (disambiguation): these nights are infrequently referred to as "Bonfire Night" (often just by their proper names, occasionally as a lower case "bonfire night"). To see this, notice that Google results
[2] for "Bonfire Night" mention overwhelmingly the contents of this page, not Eleventh Night or St John's Eve.
81.152.36.213 (
talk)
12:03, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
From the article:
"In 1677 elements of Elizabeth I's Accession Day celebration of 17 November were incorporated into the Fifth, with the burning of large bonfires, a large effigy of the pope—his belly filled with live cats "who squalled most hideously as soon as they felt the fire"—and two effigies of devils "whispering in his ear". Two years later, as the exclusion crisis was reaching its zenith, an observer noted the "many bonfires and burning of popes as has ever been seen". Violent scenes in 1682 forced London's militia into action, and to prevent any repetition the following year a proclamation was issued, banning bonfires and fireworks."
This section is misleading, Pope burnings were always far more closely associated with Accession Day than with Guy Fawkes Day/Night. This continued to be the case after 1677; the largest recorded Pope burning, with 200,000 spectators, took place on November 17th 1679. The present wording suggests that the Guy Fawkes celebrations arrogated Pope burning from the Accession Day celebrations and this was not the case. The latter part of the above quote certainly relates to Nov. 17th rather than Nov. 5th celebrations. The wording should be made less ambiguous.
My source for this is: Harris, T. (1990) London Crowds in the Reign of Charles II: Propaganda and Politics from the Restoration Until the Exclusion Crisis, Cambridge University Press. Incidentally, a book written by a real academic. Urselius ( talk) 13:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Parrot of Doom and I have both reverted the addition of this paragraph:
The size and level of popular participation in the modern celebration within Britain can be gleaned from UK government online sources, the most recent being for 2012. While only 29% of adults will actually participate in an activity to celebrate Bonfire Night (Guy Fawkes Night) those who do take part are expected to spend an estimated £386 million. 12% of adults will buy fireworks to use at home or take to a party, 12% of UK adults will either attend or host a party, however, 29% of adults expect to attend an organised fireworks display. Not everyone is enthusiastic about private celebrations, with 67% of adults saying that fireworks “should only be let off at properly organised displays”. [3]
My concerns here are that first, while we claim to be gleaning information from "UK government online sources", this source is not that - it's actually a market research survey. Second, I question the reliability of this source for inclusion here. The argument made in restoring it was that something is better than nothing - no, let's see if we can get something acceptable via discussion here first, per the close of the RfC. Nikkimaria ( talk) 16:32, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Nikkimaria you write "If this is to retain FA status, it needs to use only high-quality reliable sources". Wikipedia has a requirement for content to be supported by reliable sources for which there is a policy have definition. What do you think is the definition for "high-quality reliable sources"? -- PBS ( talk) 07:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
@ User:Parrot of Doom "through reliable, high-quality sourcing" where is high-quality sourcing defined and if it is not what do you think it means? -- PBS ( talk) 07:26, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
"Brits expected to spend over £650 million celebrating Bonfire Night and Halloween" is a press release by YouGov (see Bonfire Night Halloween SixthSense press release where the PDF is offered for download).
Press releases fall under "Self-pubished" material for the WP:V policy. As such it cannot be used for claims on third parties like "Brit consumers", "UK adults" or whoever else outside YouGov, per WP:SELFPUB. "In 2012 YouGov published the results of an online survey regarding Bonfire Night participation" is about all that can be retrieved from the source for Wikipedia.
I suppose the remaining issue is whether we wouldn't be giving WP:UNDUE weight to a press release, unless content from YouGov's market intelligence report regarding Bonfire Night & Halloween was picked up in reliable sources outside the market research agency. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't mean direct quotation, I mean a mention of published modern day governmental guidance, and the refutation of 'nannyism' concerning the safety of fireworks and bonfires. Urselius ( talk) 20:22, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Re: picked up in reliable sources outside the market research agency - Some of the statistics in the press release are included in a BBC piece that is already used as the source for 'BBC's Tom de Castella...' in the present article. [4]. AnonNep ( talk) 09:05, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
A book, The English Year by Steve Roud, Penguin UK, 2008, has a whole section, see p. 462, describing parkin, with a recipe. This section unequivocally connects parkin with Bonfire Night/Guy Fawkes Night.
This should make the subject admissible to the article; it is a book, it has been published by a reputable publisher, it is not a passing reference and it is intimately connected in the narrative of the book to Guy Fawkes Night. As a reputably published aspect of the folk celebration it is therefore not trivial and not irrelevant to the subject of this article. Urselius ( talk) 14:14, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Several edits have been undone by Editor Sagaciousphil with an edit summary referring to "last clean version". That is not an adequate reason for such an undo. The undone edits were valid. Chjoaygame ( talk) 08:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
This is celebrated throughout the country, and not confined to just the island of Great Britain.-- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 16:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
The "perceived" evils of Popery? These were not perceived. The Catholic Church was particularly pernicious under Mary Tudor, and Judge Jeffreys made a mockery of justice by having protestants executed en masse. The Statue of 1689 makes it plain the excesses perpetrated by the Catholics over the previous 150yrs. 203.87.98.101 ( talk) 06:58, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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See also Guy Fawkes Guy Fawkes Mask
38.104.209.46 ( talk) 18:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Since the PC-inspired restrictions on selling fireworks, Guy Fawkes Night has become less prominent in New Zealand. However the biggest threat seems to be coming from the American Halloween celebrations, which has even started to appropriate the setting off of fireworks - a major retail chain (already notorious for importing goods at the expense of New Zealand manufacturers) having gone so far as to promote the sale of "Halloween Fireworks". Royalcourtier ( talk) 05:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
The state of GFN in South Africa is alluded to in a 2010 article as declining. I added a reference to a current article (Nov 5), which describes the current GFN situation in Capetown. (version https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Guy_Fawkes_Night&oldid=748024234)
User:Parrot of Doom reverted the link, with the question (in the comment) " (what is this for?)".
I re-reverted the link, explaining (again, in the comment) : "What is this for? Last ref was 2010 ... GFN still alive and well in ZA 2016" -- User:Parrot of Doom deleted it again (flagging it as "minor", possibly so I wouldn't get an alert?)
a) I object to the deletion ... the information is IMHO relevant to the article, though it doesn't necessarily warrant a paragraph in the text -- though I'd be happy to provide that -- and maybe incorporate the NZ status too. b) I object to it's being deleted and re-deleted without discussion here. Alanf777 ( talk) 23:59, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Someone on WikiProject Boston suggested creating an article about Pope's Night (Pope Night/Pope Day/Pope's Day). The "In other countries" section of this article looks pretty good to me, so for now I'm just going to redirect "Pope's Night" there. At some point, though, it might be nice to have a separate article just for Boston that can be expanded. Then I'm thinking we'd briefly summarize it here and provide a "main article" link to that article. Any objections, let me know. --MopTop ( talk) 18:58, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
I have reverted this edit by John beta ( talk · contribs) because it changed from {{ Citation}} to {{ Cite news}}. The citation template, rather than Citation style 1, is generally used in this article. WP:CITEVAR calls for the established citation stye of an article be left unchanged, and to be consistent throughout the article, unless a consensus for a change is reached on the talk page. Jc3s5h ( talk) 16:20, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
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In the section Origins and history in England/Guy Fawkes Day the sentence
should be edited to delete the word "Caledonian". It's redundant, since "unlike in Scotland" already tells us it's talking about Scotland. It seems to have been inserted just so that someone could show off his knowledge of the word, unless it's an unmarked verbatim quote from the source. 68.170.182.127 ( talk) 05:24, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
The article states On 17 November 1677, anti-Catholic fervour saw the Accession Day tilt marked by the burning of a large effigy of the pope, but the article Accession Day tilt states that this festival was discontinued 50 years earlier. Which is correct? Should it be 1577? Tigerboy1966 09:41, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Article currently reads in part Towards the end of the 18th century reports appear of children begging for money with effigies of Guy Fawkes.... In 1956 in Wantage this was still the practice (I was there). Senior primary age children would go door to door with the scarecrow-like figure of old clothes and straw that they had made and ask "penny for the Guy?" and often get one. The money raised was to be spent on firecrackers and generally was (although licorice allsorts also sold particularly well in that week). At the time this was perhaps the English equivalent of trick or treat.
Now I'm not a reliable source of course, and later in the article there are sourced references to the decline of the practice (notably a source from 2005). But our article currently does give a misleading impression IMO, and perhaps this source is not as reliable as it might be! I suspect that the sources quoted focus on urban England, and that in the smaller towns the practice continued peacefully (if a twopenny bunger can be described as peaceful) for far longer than in urban areas.
If any of that can be sourced it would improve the article. Andrewa ( talk) 18:33, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
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{{subst:trim
The stupid bloody title of the page
In the UK (You know, the country where this commemoration is actually held) NOBODY calls it "Guy Fawkes Night" - we ALL call it "Bonfire Night"
This is incorrect. I've heard it called Guy Fawkes Night many times. What I have NEVER heard before yesterday is "Guy Fawkes Day". Where did that come from? Google? Kickaha Wolfenhaut ( talk) 10:46, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
yet barely gets a mention here. Instead, nearly a third of this article is about Guy Fawkes in regards to how it relates to the USA where it is basically unknown. Is wikipedia only about the USA and how things in the world related to the USA?
117.20.4.11 (
talk)
13:37, 13 August 2018 (UTC)Glen
good point no one gives a damn that the USA doesnt celebrate it. The americanisation of wikipedia is getting worse these days. An idea for the editors why not talk about who does celebrate it rather than who doesn't? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.14.189 ( talk) 13:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
According to Avax.news: Guy Fawkes day is celebrated mainly in England by burning his effigy on a bonfire to mark a foiled plot to blow up Parliament in 1605, but Guy Fawkes Day has a different meaning in South Africa, where it is a day of absurd cross-dressing. Comical troupes of children in clumsy make-up and adult clothing sing special Guy Fawkes songs and dance in the streets as they playfully beg for coins from passing admirers. (Photo by Themba Hadebe/Associated Press). 2607:FEA8:1DE0:7B4:343F:D1:7A8E:574D ( talk) 19:58, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Literally NOBODY in the UK calls November the 5th "Guy Fawkes Night". I am literally flabbergasted that this utter nonsense is even a thing. Literally NOBODY calls it that. It is "Bonfire Night" to ALL of us — Preceding unsigned comment added by FimusTauri ( talk • contribs)
If you were to read this Wikipedia article, you'd get the impression that Guy Fawkes is (a) usually referred to by that name in the UK and (b) of trivial concern in NZ. It's harder to demonstrate the pervasiveness of Bonfire Night other than by anecdote, but (b) is easily demonstrated and was once substantiated and everything in the article before being removed (as far as I could tell) by Parrot of Doom. Consider, for example, that the only time fireworks are available for sale in NZ is around Guy Fawkes and considerable attention is given to its/fireworks' nuisance properties in the media. This is not simply a question of balance, weight or whatever Wikipediaism is appropriate but, in fact, of Wikipedia and editors of this article going out of their way to create an article that misleads just as much as it informs.
I'd fix it myself, but it's fairly evident that there has been a systematic attempt to create this situation by, at a minimum, Parrot of Doom. In this context, an ignorance of Wikipedia's habits of thought is a serious hindrance. Is there some group of volunteers who look at articles to see if this kind of manipulation happens? 125.237.47.183 ( talk) 16:56, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
There's some comment on American style Halloween antics helping the decline of Bonfire night/GFN. I can recall the restrictions on bonfires (what we could burn) and personal fireworks to displays helping kill off the huge popularity of GFN. Anyone any thoughts or links on this? Halbared ( talk) 12:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
User:Nikkimaria you reverted my edits, climing WP:CITEVAR as the reason. The citation style in this article is mixed and not consistent. All I have tried to do is make the citation style unform, harmonised and consistent , so that the article is easy to read and edit. I am going to restore my edits which are inline with with the following from WP:CITEVAR
Generally considered helpful The following are standard practice:
Wayne Jayes ( talk) 12:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I read that as saying that referring to this day/event as "Bonfire Night" predominantly happens in Newfoundland, and therefore that this usage is rare elsewhere. But "Bonfire Night" is what it is called in the UK, or at least GB. See Bonfire Night. If this page were not protected, I would have just removed "(predominantly Newfoundland)". 86.24.222.159 ( talk) 22:08, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Hear! Hear! I've lived in both the north west and the south of England for the last sixty three years and have never, I repeat, NEVER, heard "BONFIRE NIGHT" referred to as Guy Fawkes Night. It's very annoying when young Americans seem to know more about English things than the English do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.249.162 ( talk) 19:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
In the immediate aftermath of the 5 November arrest of Guy Fawkes, caught guarding a cache of explosives placed beneath the House of Lords, James's Council allowed the public to celebrate the king's survival with bonfires, so long as they were "without any danger or disorder". This made 1605 the first year the plot's failure was celebrated.
I think clarification is needed as to how soon after Guy Fawkes' arrest the meeting took place and the failure of the plot was celebrated. Was the timing of the arrest reported (albeit it would be written retrospectively)? In a society less instantaneously paced than ours, with slower transport and communication means available, it is hard to believe the first celebratory bonfires were held on the day itself. Cloptonson ( talk) 14:12, 5 November 2021 (UTC)