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The introducion implies that the event is for celebrating the attempt blow up our parliament and King. This is not the case, though it deffinately has been interpreted (wrongly) by a fair number of people. The event commemorates the FAILURE to blow up our King and parliament. Thats why we burn effigied of Guy Fawkes, not effigies of King James. Its why Remember Remember the fifth of November finished with "God Save the King", why it describes how Guy Fawkes was caught in the nick of time "By Gods mercy".== mentioned in movie V for Vendetta == The 5th of novmber is mentioned in the movie V for Vendetta and is very prominate in the movie it probaly should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.228.125 ( talk) 23:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Changed "British Protectorates" New Zealand, South Africa, the province of Newfoundland and Labrador (Canada) to "British colonies"...etc., since the term protectorate was not a correct description of the former condition of these nations/provinces.kuk
Bonfire Night didn't just spring into existence in 1605. It was a part of the Hallowe'en celebration that dates back to Celtic times. I don't have enough facts to justify this, except for some web pages that I don't entirely trust, so I will wait for more proof before doing any editing. -- Heron 14:08, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Well Guy Fawkes Night may not have just sprung into existance in 1605 but the Act of Parliament of 1606 (3 James I, cap 1) entitled ‘An Acte for a publique Thancksgiving to Almighty God everie yeere of the Fifte day of November’ probably helped. The Act remained in force until 1859. [ [1]]
As for Samhain, I think you may be confusing a rather quiet spiritual commune with the souls, spirits or whatever, of the departed, for which there already existed 3 celebrations - all hallows eve, all saints day and all souls day, with the modern child centred 'holiday' of halloween.
while looking for references for firework night, I came across this interesting chronology, that may be of interest here [ [2]].
I also stumbled across this entry in the parish record for all saints church in hereford dated 1627
mending the chymes; ringing and lights on November fifth; work on the bells; new seats and "reading place"; an hour-glass for the pulpitt; irons for holding the weather-cock; the church coffin 1627; stocks at the High Cross 1627; major repairs to the steeple in 1625; sending back to London a woman with the plague, 1625; sums paid to "the doggkeeper"; payment from the poor box; tenants of "the shop under the church", 1638; payment for ringing the bells on "the Kings Crowne Nation day" 1641; ringing to celebrate "the Scots' overthrow in the North, and the King's victory in the West, 1644; ringing "when Lambert was routed" 1659-60.
hope you find it interesting. 81.102.245.79 23:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I Agree. The term 'Bonfire' originates from Bone Fire and the 'Guy' that is put on the fire is toned-down ritual sacrifice that used to be performed in pre-christian times. Although it is coincidence that 'Guy Fawkes Night' falls at the same time, the festival existed long before the gunpowder plot and was adopted by Puritans to stamp out nasty pagan rituals. I am afraid I have not the patience to look up sources of evidence, but I am sure there are plenty. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.152.194.156 (
talk)
12:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge, the Canadian province of Newfoundland also celebrates Guy Fawkes night (aka Bonfire Night)--the only place in North America to do so. Will find a scholarly citation before adding this to the article proper. --anonymous user, 28 June 2005.
Currently in the main article: "In recent years it has also become the primary night for fireworks displays in Britain". Recent years? I can personally testify that's 50 years at least. Anybody know when Guy Fawkes Night also became Fireworks Night? --Stibbs 04Nov05
An uncontroversial move, but I can't do it myself because that page has history. -- Quuxplusone 01:45, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Dragons flight 22:34, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
i am a recreation director in the Labrador portion of Newfoundsland, each year one of my bigger tasks is to organize a guy fawkes bonfire night...of course not many people know of the gunpowder conspiracy etc...but the bonfire with guy on the to is a huge tradition. we hand out wieners and marshmallows and apples for roasting and juice to drink. the event brings out young and old alike and is a part of our culture.
I am originally from Grand Bank, Newfoundland (Burin Peninsula) and we used to have a massive bonfire on the beach every 5 November for Guy Fawkes night (we usually just called it Bonfire night). There was marshmallows and wieners for roasting, as well has hot chocolate. The town's fire marshall stopped the celebrations for a number of years, but it has since resumed. In my father's home town (Harbour Mille - also on the Burin Peninsula), the kids would collect old barrels, dead spruce/fir limbs (called Fortune screachers) for weeks and light a number of fires so that the entire town would be as light as day. C. Dean Barnes, Montreal
Hello. The introduction says:
Is it actually correct to say this? My impression, from New Zealand, is that people aren't always celebrating Guy Fawkes Night simply because they're letting off fireworks. It's more a matter having fireworks available, which they are at that time of year, and setting them off opportunistically. People do let fireworks off on alternative nights because of weather problems, occasionally because the 5th is inconvenient, or maybe just because they like blowing them up and can't be bothered waiting for the official night. As far as I can tell, though, November 5th is still the only time of year that's properly associated with Guy Fawkes celebrations. I've never heard of Guy Fawkes Week or Guy Fawkes Month. Izogi 04:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
A late note, but it does stretch over a week at least. Many bonfires and public celebrations are held on the Friday or Saturday night closest to the 5th as it is not a public holiday.
To add to the poster above, many Bonfire societies stagger their bonfires around the weekends preceding to November 5th. This is to allow a maximum attendance. It's quite common in the south of England to attend several bonfire nights in one month in several towns and villages. Guy Fawkes night is Nov 5th, Bonfire night for a particular locale can be on any given date the society decides.
Do we need it twice on the same page? Really? Ben-w 08:16, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
I believe that there is a "second agenda" in Guy Fawkes Night, a belief supported by the lyrics of the second stanza:
Supposedly, Guy Fawkes Day/Night celebrates the uncovering of the Gunpowder Plot in 1605 to blow up Parliament and King James I. That day was celebrated for a few years and then died out. In 1689, Protestant Prince William of Orange overthrew Catholic King James II on November 5 (which had earlier been Guy Fawkes Day) to become King William III. The holiday was revived under its original name, although the motive and spirit of the celebration was the Protestant victory over Catholics.
The above quotes only myself composing a letter of factoids for a publisher of books of trivia. Dick Kimball 16:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Numerous variations on the rhyme appear on the net, most of which (like the version in the article) have no source quoted. Clearly any traditional rhyme will have wide variations in the lyrics so how have we got such a definative version?
A quick look through some dated sources give a couple of variations on the first part of the first stanza
Remember, Remember!
The fifth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
There is no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
From: The Book of Days: A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the Calender. By Robert Chambers. Pub 1832 by W & R Chambers Ltd.
Or:
Please to remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot;
We know no reason, why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
From: The Every-day Book: Or Everlasting Calendar of Popular Amusements, Sports, Pastimes, Ceremonies. By William Hone. Pub 1826 by Hunt and Clarke
The next bit runs along these lines:
A stick and stake
For (King James) sake, (alt; King George's or Queen Victoria's)
A stick and a stump
For (old Oliver's) rump (alt; Guy Fawke's)
The second verse doesn't appear in any books I could find, but was published in two seperate letters to a magazine
A rope, a rope, to hang the pope,
A (penn'orth) of cheese to choke him, (alt; pound)
A pint of beer to wash it down,
and a jolly good fire to (roast) him (alt; burn)
From: Notes & Queries (magazine) December 19 1908
The rhyme then ends (with or without the second verse)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! (Make) the bells ring (alt; let)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! God save the (King) (alt; Queen)
Hip! Hip! Hip! Hooray!
Mighty Antar 02:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Can we clear up that elementary school scansion of the poem? First of all, I don't think it's necessary, in large part because of reason #2: It's completely wrong. The first line is composed of four amphibrachs (u / u) while the 2nd line is 2 amphibrachs followed by an iamb. Therefore, since the scansion is off-base so, too, is the analysis of why this is so. This section either needs to get corrected or eliminated (the preferable solution, imo). Jcanker ( talk) 16:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Canada, have lived in every part of it except Newfoundland and can report that it is not a holiday and not celebrated. Should also point out that the way the line reads ( ...South Africa Newfoundland, Canada) is a bit confusing since Newfoundland is a province of Canada. An analogy might be coming across a list like " New Zealand, Lancashire, South Africa, England" or "New Zealand,Wisconsin, South Africa, U.S.A";
(PRedfern writes:) The analogy is not quite correct since Newfoundland & Labrador did not join the Canadian Confederation until 1948. Until then Newfoundland was a separate colony/dominion within the British Empire. Until 1948 indeed, Newfoundland & Labrador was Britain's oldest N.American colony. After 1948, it was Canada's youngest province.
That history of independence (Newfoundland - Canada's Texas?!!) presumably would also explain why, if a tradition of celebrating Guy Fawkes/Bonfire night was established there, that tradition would not necessarily extend to any of the other Canadian provinces (Quebec especially!).
I am 76 years old, and have lived in New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, California, and Washington. I have, or had, relatives living in South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Illinois, and Maryland. I have never heard of Guy Fawkes Night being celebrated anywhere in the USA. But I may be wrong. If no one can provide more information, I plan to correct the article. Too Old 16:14, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Too Old, I can confirm that it celebrated to a small degree in New Orleans, where it is referred to simply as "Guy Fawkes Day" and lasts for 24 hours from the stroke of midnight until it technically becomes the 6th the next day. It's worth adding, I think, but unfortunately it is impossible to source anything because revelers are notoriously secretive- Guy Fawkes day in New Orleans is seen as a day that nothing you do "counts" and in fact "never happened".
Removed the small section on "Modern USA" in Global customs - the events described were very isolated, quite recent, and frankly insignificant except to the school or group practicing them. They cannot be classed as customs. They do not belong in an encyclopedia, that's for sure. 128.232.110.231 ( talk) 13:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
I spent some time removing the stale, clichéd American bollocks (proximity, primary night, blah blah) from an article on a British topic, but it's all back again. Another good example of what's wrong with Wikipedia -- its tendency to revert to the lowest common demoninator -- is this sentence:
"Some believe the proximity of the event to the pre-Christian festival of Samhain Eve and Halloween are notable, but it is generally agreed that this is a coincidence."
How many people have edited the article w/o spotting that the verb doesn't agree with its subject? And when someone finally corrects it, the mistake is back within the day. Hopfrog 12:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there correlation between Dumbledore’s phoenix Fawkes and Guy Fawkes? My reasoning is that J. K. Rowling is from England and must know about the fifth of November, and since the man tried to set fire – or destroy – the parliament, so I though, knowing about that story, that it would make a nice name for the phoenix. (Speculation here, not sure of it all, and my memory is hazy). Someone else sees something here? mandragorae 20:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
It seems like the Tory response to the Guy Fawkes effigy - Jack Presbyter - should be included in the article. I'm not sure where, though.
"For centuries, live cats were tied up and placed in the interiors of the effigies to make desirable sound effects as they burned. The practice of including cats is long discontinued." That was added on 22 Jan 06 by 207.200.116.133. Checking edits by that IP address a day either side of that date show a mixture of good edits and clear vandalism. So I'm deleting it until somebody produces evidence. -- Farry 20:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I think I've heard that in a lecture but I don't have a source. -- Jordansc 04:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I just deleted "Guy Fawkes night (AKA ... Epic Fail Night)" considering that epic fail is something very modern, and i doubt that any person would name it that, i deleted it. Also i found a section that says "some people dont burn his effigy, especially people from his old school." i dont know if this is actually true, or an "old School" refernce so im going to leave it for anyone who actually knows to edit it. 199.111.179.139 ( talk) 00:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Found "Epic Fail Guy Night" on the Headlining photo caption... deleting it (too cute... Nov 5) -- 71.207.224.186 ( talk) 19:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
The section on Safety concerns is presumably specific to the United Kingdom. However, this is not explicitly stated. While I agree that there are probably common concerns in all the places that celebrate with fireworks, the section is more about one country's reaction to those concerns. In New Zealand, one issue is that of personal injury from irresponsible use, while another issues is the threat to public safety as a result of either accident or abuse causing wildfires and property damage. Here the reaction has been the banning of the sale of sky-rockets and crackers, along with a call for the prohibition of all fireworks for personal use. I understand that the similar concerns lead to the banning of fireworks in the state of Victoria, in Australia, 20 years ago, but as ACT and Northern Territory still celebrate, interstate fireworks smuggling is a concern there. I think the Safety concerns section needs clarification as it is currently misleading. There possibly also needs to be a section about legislative controls that covers what may be sold in which countries and when fireworks may be used. -- Cameron Dewe 21:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Fireworks only used in the weeks before since 2000? Do we have a source for this? Secretlondon 21:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I've taken out the following passage which somebody has just lifted from the "TVNZ" website:
"On the 29th of October 2006, a week before Guy Fawkes Night and a few days after fireworks had been put on sale in New Zealand, the NZ Fire Service had already had enough. Fire stations across the North Island have been inundated with calls resulting from the reckless use of pyrotechnics. It seems fireworks lovers around the wider Auckland region have had the greatest number of mishaps. Fire Service spokesman Steve Smith says there were two hours of non-stop fireworks call-outs between 9pm and 11pm on Saturday night. Fire stations servicing the Central North Island also reported dangerous use of fireworks, including several skips and letterboxes being set alight. The Fire Service wants fieworks to be banned."
It also seems to adopt the tone of somebody with an axe to grind and lacks any kind of balance.
Where has everything gone. There is no information on this article? pinster2001 @ 30/10/06
I am doubtful that we have the best title for this article. I have never heard this called 'Guy Fawkes Night' or indeed 'Fireworks Night'. Having lived in a number of places across the UK I have almost always heard this called 'Bonfire Night', except in northern England where it can be referred to as 'Plot Night'. What do others think (especially those from CA, Au & NZ)?
- I agree, never heard of it being referred to as 'Guy Fawkes Night' always 'Bonfire Night' or 'Bommy Night'
Boothuk
12:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- In Scotland its widely known as Guy Fawkes Night, so the title is just right as far as we are concerned Scancoaches 12:15 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- In my experience "bonfire night" is more common, but "Guy Fawkes Night" does not sound particularly odd, so I see no real need for change. Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
The title is really counterintuative - in the vast majority of the UK the 5th November is always referred to as "Bonfire Night"
There is a link when talking about the banning of fireworks in Australia to " ACT" but this is just a huge disambiguation page, could someone clear up the link so it points to the correct article? Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it really nessecary to mention baked potatoes? They are not exclusive to bonfire night and are only provided because they are easy to cook outside and are good warming food on a cold night. They have the same significance as burgers or sausages which are not mentioned here. Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I would say they're quite a key thing, but perhaps there could just be a sentence mentioning that warming food is particularly popular on the night - such a burgers, hot dogs, baked fruit and veg, soup etc.
80.229.16.243 20:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I am concerned with the accuracy of this article in relation to Australia. We still use fireworks in the Northern Territory every July 2nd to celebrate our independence from the other states. I believe but can not be certain that it is an extension of Guy Fawkes Night just given a new moniker to justify its relevance to Australia.
One thing that is important to bring up but I don't have the time to ellaborate is the fact that Guy Fawkes Day was a holiday in the US whose organizational mechanisms was used to begin proto phase of the American revolution in 1765,in the US it was a holiday the poorer classes used to express their frustrations in society it was a wide scale relflection of a class struggle mentality against the elites that had risen beyond the normal stations of society. The organzation of the festiveties lead to the destruction of homes of prominent British loyalists in Boston. The violence had a repose for a couple years after the British repealed the Stamp act in 1766 until of course the major phase of the revolution began a few years later.
The celebration in 18th century America is well documented here- http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/guy/html/usaplot.html It was known at first as Pope's Night and was celebrated by all classes- people could drift from one celebration to the other but generally as follows-
-Apprentices and others street festivals, processions, bonfires -Masters and aristocracy- dinners, parlor events with mummers coming in to entertain, view of street activities. -Government Officials-dinners, loyal toasts in the center of authority castles, fortifications, on board ships. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.68.23 ( talk) 02:22, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Where on earth has the version of the traditional rhyme shown on the page come from. Numerous variations appear on the net as 'The Rhyme' most of which (like the version in the article) have no source quoted.
I propose to substitue the following unless a definiative source is given:-
From: The Book of Days: A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the Calender. By Robert Chambers. Pub 1832 by W & R Chambers Ltd.
Remember, Remember!
The fifth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
There is no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
Or:
From: The Every-day Book: Or Everlasting Calendar of Popular Amusements, Sports, Pastimes, Ceremonies. By William Hone. Pub 1826 by Hunt and Clarke
Please to remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot;
We know no reason, why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
The second part of the first stanza runs along these lines:
A stick and stake
For (King James) sake, (alt; King George's or Queen Victoria's)
A stick and a stump
For (old Oliver's) rump (alt; Guy Fawke's)
The second verse doesn't appear in any books I could find, but was published in two seperate letters to a magazine
From: Notes & Queries (magazine) December 19 1908
A rope, a rope, to hang the pope,
A (penn'orth) of cheese to choke him, (alt; pound)
A pint of beer to wash it down,
and a jolly good fire to (roast) him (alt; burn)
The rhyme then ends (whether sung with or without the second verse)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! (Make) the bells ring (alt; let)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! God save the (King) (alt; Queen)
Hip! Hip! Hip! Hooray! Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot...
Clearly any 'traditional' rhyme spread by word of mouth will have wide variations in the lyrics, but for a topic as popular as this one, we could at least aim for something with a historical source.
Mighty Antar
17:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
A definitive collection of Chants a.k.a. Bonfire Prayers has been published by Hutman Productions and is available here. http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/bonbook.html
Many of the variants are to be found here- http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/guy/html/verse.html
Since 1695 world views have changed and such change is reflected in the variations found in the chants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.68.23 ( talk) 02:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The "Hollow Men" segment is completely wrong (but actually right in a roundabout way). The poem was actually referencing the novel Heart of Darkness, which, in turn, referenced Guy Fawkes. The "Mistah Kurtz" is Kurtz from the novel, and the reference in the poem is simply just an homage to the original novel. User: Brentkc49 10:13, 28 October 2007
Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.64.195 ( talk) 20:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.64.195 ( talk) 20:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The opening of the Guy Fawkes Night page claims that Guy Fawkes Night celebrates the foiling of an plot...This is only partly true. In some parts it does celebrate the foiling of the attack, but in others it celebrates the attempt itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.230.114.118 ( talk) 01:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand why a citation is needed to show that toffee apples are eaten. Do we need citations for such widely known facts? I mean, if we're going to be that petty, why don't we say a citation is needed to say that it's on 5 November, and another to show that it happens every year... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.145.111 ( talk) 10:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm afraid that's partly down to me... Originally there was just one "citation needed" for the whole foods section, but when I added in a reference for parkin, I moved separate ones onto all of the other foods with no citation yet.
And not everything in that section is "widely known". For example, I have never ever heard of people eating black peas with vinegar (which User:Dunc1971 added yesterday) ... Clearly, there is some regional variation, so how would someone from another region - or even another country - know whether something is true, without a source?
I know the article is currently full of "citation needed" markers, and that they look annoying, but one of those markers was the only reason I went to chase up the parkin newspaper article I'd read the day before. And surely there are two solutions here: to take the citation markers out, or to find citations! ;) KittyRainbow 15:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
personal i celebrate guy fawkes night as celebrating the attempt not the foiling of the plot. me and my friends call it blow shit up day.
I think the main article should at least mention the important position held until 1859, in which year considerable changes were made to the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. By state legislation, celebrations on 5 Nov were mandatory. The church service (Happy deliverance of Parliament from Gunpowder and Treason)for that day was the chief focus, and was part of the State Services in the Book of Common Prayer from 1605 to 1859. Innovations such as guys,wheelbarrows and collecting pennies, bonfires, masks, and (last of all) fireworks were later additions to enhance for children the solemnity of this day of thanksgiving.By 1859, the reign of George IV and some unpopular parliamentary legislation had no doubt convinced the populace that the decapitation of monarchs (the service for the deliverance of Charles II was also abolished) and the entering of parliament with honest intentions were perhaps not always necessarily deplorable activities. Colcestrian 20:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I have changed the section about the Southern Hemisphere, announcing the ban of the sales of fireworks in New Zealand, deleting all about the fireworks except Helen Clark's comment about the bad behaviour of youths with fireworks.
"In New Zealand,the sale of fireworks have recently been banned, as on Guy Fawkes Night 2007, there were many "little" accidents, including a child being badly burnt, and a house being burnt down. Helen Clark, the Prime Minister considered banning fireworks in New Zealand earlier in 2007 'if New Zealanders "behave badly" on Guy Fawkes night this year.' [1]"
Should this change stay, or will it be edited? Please decide for me wether we should edit this text, and me it more specific. Thin Smek 22:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
...while at the same time subjecting people in the UK to lots of American festivals that mean nothing to us. 62.253.48.73 22:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Guy Fawkes Night is celebrated in an episode of Mulberry starring Karl Howman as the "Son of Death". They stuff a guy and put him atop a large bonfire, eat sausages and baked potatoes and set off fireworks. The series ran for two seasons beginning in 1992. Lovely British comedy. 70.105.110.128 ( talk) 07:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Beverly Davis
I don't know about anyone else, but on my observation this (former?) custom seems to have died out, at least in London.
Possible reasons are (1) the fact that there are too many beggars these days, giving rise to general distaste for the practice; or parental concern for the safety of their children, leading to banning of customs/practices which are seen as risky or possibly so. Maybe other reasons as well.
Perhaps those who are better researchers than I could look into this and work it into the article. -- Korax1214 ( talk) 05:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Inflation, maybe? A penny isn't worth the metal it's stamped on, and you can't exactly go around asking for £1.50 for the guy, can you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.105.105 ( talk) 18:30, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
As Americans have got English children and their parents to do Trick Or Treating in the last few years, then I think Americans ought in return to be encouraged to celebrate Bonfire Night. Note to retailers - its another excuse to sell more stuff. So I would like to mention that the political and/or religious significance of it has been forgotten, in case the US is held back from spending money because they think its some heavy political/religious thing. Children and most adults have only a hazy idea of what its about - its just a excuse to let off fireworks. In urban areas, as soon as it gets dark on the 5th., it is as if World War III had broken out, with fireworks and bangs going off almost non-stop all evening. I think a year or two ago I did see some children asking "Penny for the guy", but its very rare. This decline is probably due to how children sadly have all their leisure time closely controlled and supervised by adults nowadays, rather than being free to wander the streets and fields and woods as we did when I was a child. See Richmal Crompton's Just William stories for what it was like in those halcyon days. I see that one place in the US celebrates Bonfire Night - but its rather perverse that they celebrate it in October rather than the correct date. The point of bonfire night is that it is cold - you wrap up well around a large bonfire, the bigger the better, and as well as the fireworks and sparklers, eat food often cooked on the bonfire, such as baked potatoes etc. Mulled wine for the adults if you are posh. Unfortunately the US bonfire website does not have an email address for me to set then right. 89.243.83.43 ( talk) 09:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know who added the content about "Bonfire Night" (?) in Australia, but it's so wrong it should just be scrapped. "Guy Fawkes" night it was in Queensland until bans on fireworks effectively ended it practice. It was also on the anniversary, and was not moved around to avoid bushfire season. It still is, although it is not really practiced (due to the bans). Maybe the "Australian" content refers specifically to some location within Australia but as none of it is sourced, it's hard to tell, and it certainly doesn't refer to Queensland. LowKey ( talk) 02:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Under Southern Hemisphere it says 'Bonfire Night/Guy Fawkes Night (and the weekend closest to it) is the main night for both amateur and official fireworks displays in the UK and New Zealand.' - should it be changed to Australia and New Zealand? Little Miss Queen Of Darkness ( talk) 21:06, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
As Bonfire Night is largely a British custom, I'm surprised at the lack of coverage of the festival in Britain here. There is more on New Zealand than Britain. It's interesting to compare the article with that for Halloween which correctly explains it in terms of its American roots and widespread practice there, and then describes its export to other countries. -- 80.176.142.11 ( talk) 23:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
A contradiction of intent exists between the South Africa section and the Southern Hemisphere section. The South Africa section says this is widely practiced, while the Southern Hemisphere section notes that it fizzled out. 142.221.110.4 ( talk) 23:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, some improvement is definitely needed there. Firstly, since there is already a section on South Africa it is not necessary to mention it again in Southern Hemisphere. Secondly, as the above comment says, the two sections say the exact opposite about Guy Fawke's Night in South Africa today, therefore, THIS ARTICLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF. I don't know what the truth is and I hope that someone knowledgeable about South Africa can correct it. Simon Peter Hughes ( talk) 04:30, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I see the South Africa part has been moved from "Southern Hemisphere" but still THIS ARTICLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF. There are two parargraphs saying that Guy Fawkes Night is very popular in South Africa followed by another that says it isn't popular anymore. I still hope that someone knowledgeable about South Africa can sort this out. Simon Peter Hughes ( talk) 13:24, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
I grew up in what was North East Cheshire (now part of Greater Manchester) and the traditional way to end the night was always a potato pie supper with pickled red cabbage or beetroot. Can anyone find a reliable reference to support this, which I believe was common throughout the North West and Yorkshire. All I can find is hundreds of adverts for bonfires mentioning that they are serving potato pie at the event; but none for the tradition itself, other than a few mentions on bulletin boards. Skinsmoke ( talk) 23:47, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Source now found from Bolton. Skinsmoke ( talk) 01:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
It would be interesting if someone could write something about alternative 'Anarchist' November 5th celebrations. For example, instead of attending a firework display, me and my pals got together and watched V For Vendetta this evening -- Jackster ( talk) 22:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I wonder when they'll start celebrating 9/11. Osama bin Laden Night? Al-qaida Night? -- 88.112.227.227 ( talk) 18:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
It's celebrating the fact that it didn't work!!!! Not that he was a terrorist! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.168.8.105 ( talk) 00:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I know about the establishment of a formal holiday to celebrate Guy Fawkes night post-1605 - but I'm surprised that there is no recognition in this article of the fact that celebrations around that time of year long predate that period. The article on Samhain specifically refers to bonfires, etc., and I'm sure that copious refs could be found to attest to the fact that there is likely to be a relationship betwen the two. I know that Samhain relates to Halloween, and there is a difference of a few days between the two, but that is insignificant taking into account past changes in the calendar. I've added a link to Samhain under "See also", but I'm minded to find refs to justify including a new para in the text to refer to this relationship. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:21, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
It ought to be pointed out that almost nobody celebrating Guy Fawkes Night has any idea about the religious sect of those involved, and that now its just a welcome excuse for innocent winter fun and fireworks. It is also a shame that it has become eclipsed by the great rise in the celebration of Halloween (previously not celebrated at all) due to supermarkets trying to sell us more stuff and American tv fodder. 92.29.121.183 ( talk) 21:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
The article is about Bonfire Night, not about the Gunpowder Plot. The great majority of people who celebrate it have no idea of the details, only that it was something about trying to blow up parliament. Conspirators being Catholic or not is not relevant to Bonfire Night, and is covered by the Gunpowder plot article. Mentioning Catholics makes it seem like an anti-Catholic demonstration, which it is not. So the mention of the conspirators being Catholic should be removed. I did remove it, but someone put it back again. Sorry I'm wondering if that editor is anti-catholic. 92.15.0.50 ( talk) 11:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I have added a {{ Unreferenced section}} to the South African section because we have two unsourced paragraphs that make contradictory statements. "Guy Fawkes is widely celebrated in South Africa. ..." and "Guy Fawkes day was celebrated to some extent by South Africans of British descent, but the practice began to dwindle by the 1960s." We need some sources and a rewrite of this section. -- PBS ( talk) 23:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
A Google search on [firework night Johannesburg site:za] returns a number of pages here are two official:
A Google search on [firework night Durban site:za] returns a number of pages
A Google search on [Guy Fawkes Cape-Town site:za] returns lots of pages
-- PBS ( talk) 00:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
This is an FA so I'm hesitant to do this myself, but there's no link to wikiquote page for Guy Fawkes which I think there should be. Also, I know that V for Vendetta is linked to from the Gunpowder Plot in popular culture page but I'm wondering if it should also be here, in the see also section or something. 76.171.22.15 ( talk) 04:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Articles generally ought not to link directly to disambiguation pages - so the ambiguity in "barricade himself in the presbytery" needs to be resolved. Clearly, Presbytery (residence) is meant. There is no place in a Presbytery (architecture) in which to barricade oneself. If the priest happened to be there, it would say he was barricading himself in the church. A brief perusal of the diagram ont he latter page will indicate that this is merely a matter of common sense. St Anselm ( talk) 20:40, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Should the presbytery link in the article be disambiguated to Presbytery (residence) (which redirects to rectory) or should it be left ambiguous? 20:26, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
All this fuss over a disambiguation link, a "problem" resolved by removing the link entirely. And now, the editor who most wants to solve this by inferring something the sources don't appear to suport, is battling to keep the argument going by reverting edits that have removed the "offending" section completely. Who the shuddering fuck cares about a stupid link, other than people with too much time on their hands but not (apparently) enough to write anything meaningful?
Some may have noticed that I haven't written anything for some time now. This is exactly the kind of wooden-headed ignorant stupidity that keeps me away. I added the original material, I added the disambiguation link (because I researched the subject and was unable to clarify the matter) and I entirely support Ealdgyth's removal of it. Parrot of Doom 11:30, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
, not {{
cite}}
. {{
Cite}}
would have been acceptable, because it's a redirect to {{
citation}}
. This means that if you have selected {{
cite book}}
from a menu and filled in the parameters, you can easily switch it to the preferred style for this article by removing the word book
before saving - it works without further amendment because {{
citation}}
recognises virtually all of the parameters recognised by {{
cite book}}
- the few exceptions are not offered by reference menus anyway.{{
cite book}}
is used 10 other times, all of these being under
Further reading. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
10:05, 29 October 2013 (UTC)To the question of why removing the specific incident in Ipswich isn't a valid option? It's not really needed in the context of the paragraph - it's just an illustrative example that isn't required here. Removing it would solve the problem and resolve the issue. But no one seems willing to say why they insist on the link to presbytery (residence) MUST stay in this article along with the incident in Ipswich? Ealdgyth - Talk 16:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Since this edit in 2008 the article has used the {{ Citation}} template to give full information about sources. By 2010 the harvnb template was used to make short footnotes, which in turn refer to the full citation in the bibliography (this saves space by not writing out the full citation each time the same source is used to support multiple statements). The article has evolved to the point that nearly all the citations are short footnote, and the article would be easier to read and maintain if the exceptions were migrated to the dominant style. Jc3s5h ( talk) 21:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Using the wrong citation style is not grounds for removal of content. We should encourage consistent style, but removing sourced content because you don't like the style is not within policy. Gaijin42 ( talk) 21:33, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
PoD : WP:NPA. Gaijin42 ( talk) 14:48, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
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The introducion implies that the event is for celebrating the attempt blow up our parliament and King. This is not the case, though it deffinately has been interpreted (wrongly) by a fair number of people. The event commemorates the FAILURE to blow up our King and parliament. Thats why we burn effigied of Guy Fawkes, not effigies of King James. Its why Remember Remember the fifth of November finished with "God Save the King", why it describes how Guy Fawkes was caught in the nick of time "By Gods mercy".== mentioned in movie V for Vendetta == The 5th of novmber is mentioned in the movie V for Vendetta and is very prominate in the movie it probaly should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.228.125 ( talk) 23:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Changed "British Protectorates" New Zealand, South Africa, the province of Newfoundland and Labrador (Canada) to "British colonies"...etc., since the term protectorate was not a correct description of the former condition of these nations/provinces.kuk
Bonfire Night didn't just spring into existence in 1605. It was a part of the Hallowe'en celebration that dates back to Celtic times. I don't have enough facts to justify this, except for some web pages that I don't entirely trust, so I will wait for more proof before doing any editing. -- Heron 14:08, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Well Guy Fawkes Night may not have just sprung into existance in 1605 but the Act of Parliament of 1606 (3 James I, cap 1) entitled ‘An Acte for a publique Thancksgiving to Almighty God everie yeere of the Fifte day of November’ probably helped. The Act remained in force until 1859. [ [1]]
As for Samhain, I think you may be confusing a rather quiet spiritual commune with the souls, spirits or whatever, of the departed, for which there already existed 3 celebrations - all hallows eve, all saints day and all souls day, with the modern child centred 'holiday' of halloween.
while looking for references for firework night, I came across this interesting chronology, that may be of interest here [ [2]].
I also stumbled across this entry in the parish record for all saints church in hereford dated 1627
mending the chymes; ringing and lights on November fifth; work on the bells; new seats and "reading place"; an hour-glass for the pulpitt; irons for holding the weather-cock; the church coffin 1627; stocks at the High Cross 1627; major repairs to the steeple in 1625; sending back to London a woman with the plague, 1625; sums paid to "the doggkeeper"; payment from the poor box; tenants of "the shop under the church", 1638; payment for ringing the bells on "the Kings Crowne Nation day" 1641; ringing to celebrate "the Scots' overthrow in the North, and the King's victory in the West, 1644; ringing "when Lambert was routed" 1659-60.
hope you find it interesting. 81.102.245.79 23:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I Agree. The term 'Bonfire' originates from Bone Fire and the 'Guy' that is put on the fire is toned-down ritual sacrifice that used to be performed in pre-christian times. Although it is coincidence that 'Guy Fawkes Night' falls at the same time, the festival existed long before the gunpowder plot and was adopted by Puritans to stamp out nasty pagan rituals. I am afraid I have not the patience to look up sources of evidence, but I am sure there are plenty. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.152.194.156 (
talk)
12:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge, the Canadian province of Newfoundland also celebrates Guy Fawkes night (aka Bonfire Night)--the only place in North America to do so. Will find a scholarly citation before adding this to the article proper. --anonymous user, 28 June 2005.
Currently in the main article: "In recent years it has also become the primary night for fireworks displays in Britain". Recent years? I can personally testify that's 50 years at least. Anybody know when Guy Fawkes Night also became Fireworks Night? --Stibbs 04Nov05
An uncontroversial move, but I can't do it myself because that page has history. -- Quuxplusone 01:45, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Dragons flight 22:34, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
i am a recreation director in the Labrador portion of Newfoundsland, each year one of my bigger tasks is to organize a guy fawkes bonfire night...of course not many people know of the gunpowder conspiracy etc...but the bonfire with guy on the to is a huge tradition. we hand out wieners and marshmallows and apples for roasting and juice to drink. the event brings out young and old alike and is a part of our culture.
I am originally from Grand Bank, Newfoundland (Burin Peninsula) and we used to have a massive bonfire on the beach every 5 November for Guy Fawkes night (we usually just called it Bonfire night). There was marshmallows and wieners for roasting, as well has hot chocolate. The town's fire marshall stopped the celebrations for a number of years, but it has since resumed. In my father's home town (Harbour Mille - also on the Burin Peninsula), the kids would collect old barrels, dead spruce/fir limbs (called Fortune screachers) for weeks and light a number of fires so that the entire town would be as light as day. C. Dean Barnes, Montreal
Hello. The introduction says:
Is it actually correct to say this? My impression, from New Zealand, is that people aren't always celebrating Guy Fawkes Night simply because they're letting off fireworks. It's more a matter having fireworks available, which they are at that time of year, and setting them off opportunistically. People do let fireworks off on alternative nights because of weather problems, occasionally because the 5th is inconvenient, or maybe just because they like blowing them up and can't be bothered waiting for the official night. As far as I can tell, though, November 5th is still the only time of year that's properly associated with Guy Fawkes celebrations. I've never heard of Guy Fawkes Week or Guy Fawkes Month. Izogi 04:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
A late note, but it does stretch over a week at least. Many bonfires and public celebrations are held on the Friday or Saturday night closest to the 5th as it is not a public holiday.
To add to the poster above, many Bonfire societies stagger their bonfires around the weekends preceding to November 5th. This is to allow a maximum attendance. It's quite common in the south of England to attend several bonfire nights in one month in several towns and villages. Guy Fawkes night is Nov 5th, Bonfire night for a particular locale can be on any given date the society decides.
Do we need it twice on the same page? Really? Ben-w 08:16, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
I believe that there is a "second agenda" in Guy Fawkes Night, a belief supported by the lyrics of the second stanza:
Supposedly, Guy Fawkes Day/Night celebrates the uncovering of the Gunpowder Plot in 1605 to blow up Parliament and King James I. That day was celebrated for a few years and then died out. In 1689, Protestant Prince William of Orange overthrew Catholic King James II on November 5 (which had earlier been Guy Fawkes Day) to become King William III. The holiday was revived under its original name, although the motive and spirit of the celebration was the Protestant victory over Catholics.
The above quotes only myself composing a letter of factoids for a publisher of books of trivia. Dick Kimball 16:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Numerous variations on the rhyme appear on the net, most of which (like the version in the article) have no source quoted. Clearly any traditional rhyme will have wide variations in the lyrics so how have we got such a definative version?
A quick look through some dated sources give a couple of variations on the first part of the first stanza
Remember, Remember!
The fifth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
There is no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
From: The Book of Days: A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the Calender. By Robert Chambers. Pub 1832 by W & R Chambers Ltd.
Or:
Please to remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot;
We know no reason, why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
From: The Every-day Book: Or Everlasting Calendar of Popular Amusements, Sports, Pastimes, Ceremonies. By William Hone. Pub 1826 by Hunt and Clarke
The next bit runs along these lines:
A stick and stake
For (King James) sake, (alt; King George's or Queen Victoria's)
A stick and a stump
For (old Oliver's) rump (alt; Guy Fawke's)
The second verse doesn't appear in any books I could find, but was published in two seperate letters to a magazine
A rope, a rope, to hang the pope,
A (penn'orth) of cheese to choke him, (alt; pound)
A pint of beer to wash it down,
and a jolly good fire to (roast) him (alt; burn)
From: Notes & Queries (magazine) December 19 1908
The rhyme then ends (with or without the second verse)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! (Make) the bells ring (alt; let)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! God save the (King) (alt; Queen)
Hip! Hip! Hip! Hooray!
Mighty Antar 02:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Can we clear up that elementary school scansion of the poem? First of all, I don't think it's necessary, in large part because of reason #2: It's completely wrong. The first line is composed of four amphibrachs (u / u) while the 2nd line is 2 amphibrachs followed by an iamb. Therefore, since the scansion is off-base so, too, is the analysis of why this is so. This section either needs to get corrected or eliminated (the preferable solution, imo). Jcanker ( talk) 16:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Canada, have lived in every part of it except Newfoundland and can report that it is not a holiday and not celebrated. Should also point out that the way the line reads ( ...South Africa Newfoundland, Canada) is a bit confusing since Newfoundland is a province of Canada. An analogy might be coming across a list like " New Zealand, Lancashire, South Africa, England" or "New Zealand,Wisconsin, South Africa, U.S.A";
(PRedfern writes:) The analogy is not quite correct since Newfoundland & Labrador did not join the Canadian Confederation until 1948. Until then Newfoundland was a separate colony/dominion within the British Empire. Until 1948 indeed, Newfoundland & Labrador was Britain's oldest N.American colony. After 1948, it was Canada's youngest province.
That history of independence (Newfoundland - Canada's Texas?!!) presumably would also explain why, if a tradition of celebrating Guy Fawkes/Bonfire night was established there, that tradition would not necessarily extend to any of the other Canadian provinces (Quebec especially!).
I am 76 years old, and have lived in New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, California, and Washington. I have, or had, relatives living in South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Illinois, and Maryland. I have never heard of Guy Fawkes Night being celebrated anywhere in the USA. But I may be wrong. If no one can provide more information, I plan to correct the article. Too Old 16:14, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Too Old, I can confirm that it celebrated to a small degree in New Orleans, where it is referred to simply as "Guy Fawkes Day" and lasts for 24 hours from the stroke of midnight until it technically becomes the 6th the next day. It's worth adding, I think, but unfortunately it is impossible to source anything because revelers are notoriously secretive- Guy Fawkes day in New Orleans is seen as a day that nothing you do "counts" and in fact "never happened".
Removed the small section on "Modern USA" in Global customs - the events described were very isolated, quite recent, and frankly insignificant except to the school or group practicing them. They cannot be classed as customs. They do not belong in an encyclopedia, that's for sure. 128.232.110.231 ( talk) 13:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
I spent some time removing the stale, clichéd American bollocks (proximity, primary night, blah blah) from an article on a British topic, but it's all back again. Another good example of what's wrong with Wikipedia -- its tendency to revert to the lowest common demoninator -- is this sentence:
"Some believe the proximity of the event to the pre-Christian festival of Samhain Eve and Halloween are notable, but it is generally agreed that this is a coincidence."
How many people have edited the article w/o spotting that the verb doesn't agree with its subject? And when someone finally corrects it, the mistake is back within the day. Hopfrog 12:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there correlation between Dumbledore’s phoenix Fawkes and Guy Fawkes? My reasoning is that J. K. Rowling is from England and must know about the fifth of November, and since the man tried to set fire – or destroy – the parliament, so I though, knowing about that story, that it would make a nice name for the phoenix. (Speculation here, not sure of it all, and my memory is hazy). Someone else sees something here? mandragorae 20:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
It seems like the Tory response to the Guy Fawkes effigy - Jack Presbyter - should be included in the article. I'm not sure where, though.
"For centuries, live cats were tied up and placed in the interiors of the effigies to make desirable sound effects as they burned. The practice of including cats is long discontinued." That was added on 22 Jan 06 by 207.200.116.133. Checking edits by that IP address a day either side of that date show a mixture of good edits and clear vandalism. So I'm deleting it until somebody produces evidence. -- Farry 20:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I think I've heard that in a lecture but I don't have a source. -- Jordansc 04:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I just deleted "Guy Fawkes night (AKA ... Epic Fail Night)" considering that epic fail is something very modern, and i doubt that any person would name it that, i deleted it. Also i found a section that says "some people dont burn his effigy, especially people from his old school." i dont know if this is actually true, or an "old School" refernce so im going to leave it for anyone who actually knows to edit it. 199.111.179.139 ( talk) 00:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Found "Epic Fail Guy Night" on the Headlining photo caption... deleting it (too cute... Nov 5) -- 71.207.224.186 ( talk) 19:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
The section on Safety concerns is presumably specific to the United Kingdom. However, this is not explicitly stated. While I agree that there are probably common concerns in all the places that celebrate with fireworks, the section is more about one country's reaction to those concerns. In New Zealand, one issue is that of personal injury from irresponsible use, while another issues is the threat to public safety as a result of either accident or abuse causing wildfires and property damage. Here the reaction has been the banning of the sale of sky-rockets and crackers, along with a call for the prohibition of all fireworks for personal use. I understand that the similar concerns lead to the banning of fireworks in the state of Victoria, in Australia, 20 years ago, but as ACT and Northern Territory still celebrate, interstate fireworks smuggling is a concern there. I think the Safety concerns section needs clarification as it is currently misleading. There possibly also needs to be a section about legislative controls that covers what may be sold in which countries and when fireworks may be used. -- Cameron Dewe 21:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Fireworks only used in the weeks before since 2000? Do we have a source for this? Secretlondon 21:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I've taken out the following passage which somebody has just lifted from the "TVNZ" website:
"On the 29th of October 2006, a week before Guy Fawkes Night and a few days after fireworks had been put on sale in New Zealand, the NZ Fire Service had already had enough. Fire stations across the North Island have been inundated with calls resulting from the reckless use of pyrotechnics. It seems fireworks lovers around the wider Auckland region have had the greatest number of mishaps. Fire Service spokesman Steve Smith says there were two hours of non-stop fireworks call-outs between 9pm and 11pm on Saturday night. Fire stations servicing the Central North Island also reported dangerous use of fireworks, including several skips and letterboxes being set alight. The Fire Service wants fieworks to be banned."
It also seems to adopt the tone of somebody with an axe to grind and lacks any kind of balance.
Where has everything gone. There is no information on this article? pinster2001 @ 30/10/06
I am doubtful that we have the best title for this article. I have never heard this called 'Guy Fawkes Night' or indeed 'Fireworks Night'. Having lived in a number of places across the UK I have almost always heard this called 'Bonfire Night', except in northern England where it can be referred to as 'Plot Night'. What do others think (especially those from CA, Au & NZ)?
- I agree, never heard of it being referred to as 'Guy Fawkes Night' always 'Bonfire Night' or 'Bommy Night'
Boothuk
12:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- In Scotland its widely known as Guy Fawkes Night, so the title is just right as far as we are concerned Scancoaches 12:15 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- In my experience "bonfire night" is more common, but "Guy Fawkes Night" does not sound particularly odd, so I see no real need for change. Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
The title is really counterintuative - in the vast majority of the UK the 5th November is always referred to as "Bonfire Night"
There is a link when talking about the banning of fireworks in Australia to " ACT" but this is just a huge disambiguation page, could someone clear up the link so it points to the correct article? Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it really nessecary to mention baked potatoes? They are not exclusive to bonfire night and are only provided because they are easy to cook outside and are good warming food on a cold night. They have the same significance as burgers or sausages which are not mentioned here. Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I would say they're quite a key thing, but perhaps there could just be a sentence mentioning that warming food is particularly popular on the night - such a burgers, hot dogs, baked fruit and veg, soup etc.
80.229.16.243 20:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I am concerned with the accuracy of this article in relation to Australia. We still use fireworks in the Northern Territory every July 2nd to celebrate our independence from the other states. I believe but can not be certain that it is an extension of Guy Fawkes Night just given a new moniker to justify its relevance to Australia.
One thing that is important to bring up but I don't have the time to ellaborate is the fact that Guy Fawkes Day was a holiday in the US whose organizational mechanisms was used to begin proto phase of the American revolution in 1765,in the US it was a holiday the poorer classes used to express their frustrations in society it was a wide scale relflection of a class struggle mentality against the elites that had risen beyond the normal stations of society. The organzation of the festiveties lead to the destruction of homes of prominent British loyalists in Boston. The violence had a repose for a couple years after the British repealed the Stamp act in 1766 until of course the major phase of the revolution began a few years later.
The celebration in 18th century America is well documented here- http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/guy/html/usaplot.html It was known at first as Pope's Night and was celebrated by all classes- people could drift from one celebration to the other but generally as follows-
-Apprentices and others street festivals, processions, bonfires -Masters and aristocracy- dinners, parlor events with mummers coming in to entertain, view of street activities. -Government Officials-dinners, loyal toasts in the center of authority castles, fortifications, on board ships. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.68.23 ( talk) 02:22, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Where on earth has the version of the traditional rhyme shown on the page come from. Numerous variations appear on the net as 'The Rhyme' most of which (like the version in the article) have no source quoted.
I propose to substitue the following unless a definiative source is given:-
From: The Book of Days: A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the Calender. By Robert Chambers. Pub 1832 by W & R Chambers Ltd.
Remember, Remember!
The fifth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
There is no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
Or:
From: The Every-day Book: Or Everlasting Calendar of Popular Amusements, Sports, Pastimes, Ceremonies. By William Hone. Pub 1826 by Hunt and Clarke
Please to remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot;
We know no reason, why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
The second part of the first stanza runs along these lines:
A stick and stake
For (King James) sake, (alt; King George's or Queen Victoria's)
A stick and a stump
For (old Oliver's) rump (alt; Guy Fawke's)
The second verse doesn't appear in any books I could find, but was published in two seperate letters to a magazine
From: Notes & Queries (magazine) December 19 1908
A rope, a rope, to hang the pope,
A (penn'orth) of cheese to choke him, (alt; pound)
A pint of beer to wash it down,
and a jolly good fire to (roast) him (alt; burn)
The rhyme then ends (whether sung with or without the second verse)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! (Make) the bells ring (alt; let)
Holla Boys! Holla Boys! God save the (King) (alt; Queen)
Hip! Hip! Hip! Hooray! Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot...
Clearly any 'traditional' rhyme spread by word of mouth will have wide variations in the lyrics, but for a topic as popular as this one, we could at least aim for something with a historical source.
Mighty Antar
17:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
A definitive collection of Chants a.k.a. Bonfire Prayers has been published by Hutman Productions and is available here. http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/bonbook.html
Many of the variants are to be found here- http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/guy/html/verse.html
Since 1695 world views have changed and such change is reflected in the variations found in the chants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.68.23 ( talk) 02:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The "Hollow Men" segment is completely wrong (but actually right in a roundabout way). The poem was actually referencing the novel Heart of Darkness, which, in turn, referenced Guy Fawkes. The "Mistah Kurtz" is Kurtz from the novel, and the reference in the poem is simply just an homage to the original novel. User: Brentkc49 10:13, 28 October 2007
Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.64.195 ( talk) 20:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.64.195 ( talk) 20:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The opening of the Guy Fawkes Night page claims that Guy Fawkes Night celebrates the foiling of an plot...This is only partly true. In some parts it does celebrate the foiling of the attack, but in others it celebrates the attempt itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.230.114.118 ( talk) 01:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand why a citation is needed to show that toffee apples are eaten. Do we need citations for such widely known facts? I mean, if we're going to be that petty, why don't we say a citation is needed to say that it's on 5 November, and another to show that it happens every year... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.145.111 ( talk) 10:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm afraid that's partly down to me... Originally there was just one "citation needed" for the whole foods section, but when I added in a reference for parkin, I moved separate ones onto all of the other foods with no citation yet.
And not everything in that section is "widely known". For example, I have never ever heard of people eating black peas with vinegar (which User:Dunc1971 added yesterday) ... Clearly, there is some regional variation, so how would someone from another region - or even another country - know whether something is true, without a source?
I know the article is currently full of "citation needed" markers, and that they look annoying, but one of those markers was the only reason I went to chase up the parkin newspaper article I'd read the day before. And surely there are two solutions here: to take the citation markers out, or to find citations! ;) KittyRainbow 15:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
personal i celebrate guy fawkes night as celebrating the attempt not the foiling of the plot. me and my friends call it blow shit up day.
I think the main article should at least mention the important position held until 1859, in which year considerable changes were made to the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. By state legislation, celebrations on 5 Nov were mandatory. The church service (Happy deliverance of Parliament from Gunpowder and Treason)for that day was the chief focus, and was part of the State Services in the Book of Common Prayer from 1605 to 1859. Innovations such as guys,wheelbarrows and collecting pennies, bonfires, masks, and (last of all) fireworks were later additions to enhance for children the solemnity of this day of thanksgiving.By 1859, the reign of George IV and some unpopular parliamentary legislation had no doubt convinced the populace that the decapitation of monarchs (the service for the deliverance of Charles II was also abolished) and the entering of parliament with honest intentions were perhaps not always necessarily deplorable activities. Colcestrian 20:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I have changed the section about the Southern Hemisphere, announcing the ban of the sales of fireworks in New Zealand, deleting all about the fireworks except Helen Clark's comment about the bad behaviour of youths with fireworks.
"In New Zealand,the sale of fireworks have recently been banned, as on Guy Fawkes Night 2007, there were many "little" accidents, including a child being badly burnt, and a house being burnt down. Helen Clark, the Prime Minister considered banning fireworks in New Zealand earlier in 2007 'if New Zealanders "behave badly" on Guy Fawkes night this year.' [1]"
Should this change stay, or will it be edited? Please decide for me wether we should edit this text, and me it more specific. Thin Smek 22:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
...while at the same time subjecting people in the UK to lots of American festivals that mean nothing to us. 62.253.48.73 22:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Guy Fawkes Night is celebrated in an episode of Mulberry starring Karl Howman as the "Son of Death". They stuff a guy and put him atop a large bonfire, eat sausages and baked potatoes and set off fireworks. The series ran for two seasons beginning in 1992. Lovely British comedy. 70.105.110.128 ( talk) 07:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Beverly Davis
I don't know about anyone else, but on my observation this (former?) custom seems to have died out, at least in London.
Possible reasons are (1) the fact that there are too many beggars these days, giving rise to general distaste for the practice; or parental concern for the safety of their children, leading to banning of customs/practices which are seen as risky or possibly so. Maybe other reasons as well.
Perhaps those who are better researchers than I could look into this and work it into the article. -- Korax1214 ( talk) 05:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Inflation, maybe? A penny isn't worth the metal it's stamped on, and you can't exactly go around asking for £1.50 for the guy, can you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.105.105 ( talk) 18:30, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
As Americans have got English children and their parents to do Trick Or Treating in the last few years, then I think Americans ought in return to be encouraged to celebrate Bonfire Night. Note to retailers - its another excuse to sell more stuff. So I would like to mention that the political and/or religious significance of it has been forgotten, in case the US is held back from spending money because they think its some heavy political/religious thing. Children and most adults have only a hazy idea of what its about - its just a excuse to let off fireworks. In urban areas, as soon as it gets dark on the 5th., it is as if World War III had broken out, with fireworks and bangs going off almost non-stop all evening. I think a year or two ago I did see some children asking "Penny for the guy", but its very rare. This decline is probably due to how children sadly have all their leisure time closely controlled and supervised by adults nowadays, rather than being free to wander the streets and fields and woods as we did when I was a child. See Richmal Crompton's Just William stories for what it was like in those halcyon days. I see that one place in the US celebrates Bonfire Night - but its rather perverse that they celebrate it in October rather than the correct date. The point of bonfire night is that it is cold - you wrap up well around a large bonfire, the bigger the better, and as well as the fireworks and sparklers, eat food often cooked on the bonfire, such as baked potatoes etc. Mulled wine for the adults if you are posh. Unfortunately the US bonfire website does not have an email address for me to set then right. 89.243.83.43 ( talk) 09:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know who added the content about "Bonfire Night" (?) in Australia, but it's so wrong it should just be scrapped. "Guy Fawkes" night it was in Queensland until bans on fireworks effectively ended it practice. It was also on the anniversary, and was not moved around to avoid bushfire season. It still is, although it is not really practiced (due to the bans). Maybe the "Australian" content refers specifically to some location within Australia but as none of it is sourced, it's hard to tell, and it certainly doesn't refer to Queensland. LowKey ( talk) 02:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Under Southern Hemisphere it says 'Bonfire Night/Guy Fawkes Night (and the weekend closest to it) is the main night for both amateur and official fireworks displays in the UK and New Zealand.' - should it be changed to Australia and New Zealand? Little Miss Queen Of Darkness ( talk) 21:06, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
As Bonfire Night is largely a British custom, I'm surprised at the lack of coverage of the festival in Britain here. There is more on New Zealand than Britain. It's interesting to compare the article with that for Halloween which correctly explains it in terms of its American roots and widespread practice there, and then describes its export to other countries. -- 80.176.142.11 ( talk) 23:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
A contradiction of intent exists between the South Africa section and the Southern Hemisphere section. The South Africa section says this is widely practiced, while the Southern Hemisphere section notes that it fizzled out. 142.221.110.4 ( talk) 23:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, some improvement is definitely needed there. Firstly, since there is already a section on South Africa it is not necessary to mention it again in Southern Hemisphere. Secondly, as the above comment says, the two sections say the exact opposite about Guy Fawke's Night in South Africa today, therefore, THIS ARTICLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF. I don't know what the truth is and I hope that someone knowledgeable about South Africa can correct it. Simon Peter Hughes ( talk) 04:30, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I see the South Africa part has been moved from "Southern Hemisphere" but still THIS ARTICLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF. There are two parargraphs saying that Guy Fawkes Night is very popular in South Africa followed by another that says it isn't popular anymore. I still hope that someone knowledgeable about South Africa can sort this out. Simon Peter Hughes ( talk) 13:24, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
I grew up in what was North East Cheshire (now part of Greater Manchester) and the traditional way to end the night was always a potato pie supper with pickled red cabbage or beetroot. Can anyone find a reliable reference to support this, which I believe was common throughout the North West and Yorkshire. All I can find is hundreds of adverts for bonfires mentioning that they are serving potato pie at the event; but none for the tradition itself, other than a few mentions on bulletin boards. Skinsmoke ( talk) 23:47, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Source now found from Bolton. Skinsmoke ( talk) 01:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
It would be interesting if someone could write something about alternative 'Anarchist' November 5th celebrations. For example, instead of attending a firework display, me and my pals got together and watched V For Vendetta this evening -- Jackster ( talk) 22:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I wonder when they'll start celebrating 9/11. Osama bin Laden Night? Al-qaida Night? -- 88.112.227.227 ( talk) 18:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
It's celebrating the fact that it didn't work!!!! Not that he was a terrorist! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.168.8.105 ( talk) 00:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I know about the establishment of a formal holiday to celebrate Guy Fawkes night post-1605 - but I'm surprised that there is no recognition in this article of the fact that celebrations around that time of year long predate that period. The article on Samhain specifically refers to bonfires, etc., and I'm sure that copious refs could be found to attest to the fact that there is likely to be a relationship betwen the two. I know that Samhain relates to Halloween, and there is a difference of a few days between the two, but that is insignificant taking into account past changes in the calendar. I've added a link to Samhain under "See also", but I'm minded to find refs to justify including a new para in the text to refer to this relationship. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:21, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
It ought to be pointed out that almost nobody celebrating Guy Fawkes Night has any idea about the religious sect of those involved, and that now its just a welcome excuse for innocent winter fun and fireworks. It is also a shame that it has become eclipsed by the great rise in the celebration of Halloween (previously not celebrated at all) due to supermarkets trying to sell us more stuff and American tv fodder. 92.29.121.183 ( talk) 21:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
The article is about Bonfire Night, not about the Gunpowder Plot. The great majority of people who celebrate it have no idea of the details, only that it was something about trying to blow up parliament. Conspirators being Catholic or not is not relevant to Bonfire Night, and is covered by the Gunpowder plot article. Mentioning Catholics makes it seem like an anti-Catholic demonstration, which it is not. So the mention of the conspirators being Catholic should be removed. I did remove it, but someone put it back again. Sorry I'm wondering if that editor is anti-catholic. 92.15.0.50 ( talk) 11:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I have added a {{ Unreferenced section}} to the South African section because we have two unsourced paragraphs that make contradictory statements. "Guy Fawkes is widely celebrated in South Africa. ..." and "Guy Fawkes day was celebrated to some extent by South Africans of British descent, but the practice began to dwindle by the 1960s." We need some sources and a rewrite of this section. -- PBS ( talk) 23:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
A Google search on [firework night Johannesburg site:za] returns a number of pages here are two official:
A Google search on [firework night Durban site:za] returns a number of pages
A Google search on [Guy Fawkes Cape-Town site:za] returns lots of pages
-- PBS ( talk) 00:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
This is an FA so I'm hesitant to do this myself, but there's no link to wikiquote page for Guy Fawkes which I think there should be. Also, I know that V for Vendetta is linked to from the Gunpowder Plot in popular culture page but I'm wondering if it should also be here, in the see also section or something. 76.171.22.15 ( talk) 04:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Articles generally ought not to link directly to disambiguation pages - so the ambiguity in "barricade himself in the presbytery" needs to be resolved. Clearly, Presbytery (residence) is meant. There is no place in a Presbytery (architecture) in which to barricade oneself. If the priest happened to be there, it would say he was barricading himself in the church. A brief perusal of the diagram ont he latter page will indicate that this is merely a matter of common sense. St Anselm ( talk) 20:40, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Should the presbytery link in the article be disambiguated to Presbytery (residence) (which redirects to rectory) or should it be left ambiguous? 20:26, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
All this fuss over a disambiguation link, a "problem" resolved by removing the link entirely. And now, the editor who most wants to solve this by inferring something the sources don't appear to suport, is battling to keep the argument going by reverting edits that have removed the "offending" section completely. Who the shuddering fuck cares about a stupid link, other than people with too much time on their hands but not (apparently) enough to write anything meaningful?
Some may have noticed that I haven't written anything for some time now. This is exactly the kind of wooden-headed ignorant stupidity that keeps me away. I added the original material, I added the disambiguation link (because I researched the subject and was unable to clarify the matter) and I entirely support Ealdgyth's removal of it. Parrot of Doom 11:30, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
, not {{
cite}}
. {{
Cite}}
would have been acceptable, because it's a redirect to {{
citation}}
. This means that if you have selected {{
cite book}}
from a menu and filled in the parameters, you can easily switch it to the preferred style for this article by removing the word book
before saving - it works without further amendment because {{
citation}}
recognises virtually all of the parameters recognised by {{
cite book}}
- the few exceptions are not offered by reference menus anyway.{{
cite book}}
is used 10 other times, all of these being under
Further reading. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
10:05, 29 October 2013 (UTC)To the question of why removing the specific incident in Ipswich isn't a valid option? It's not really needed in the context of the paragraph - it's just an illustrative example that isn't required here. Removing it would solve the problem and resolve the issue. But no one seems willing to say why they insist on the link to presbytery (residence) MUST stay in this article along with the incident in Ipswich? Ealdgyth - Talk 16:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Since this edit in 2008 the article has used the {{ Citation}} template to give full information about sources. By 2010 the harvnb template was used to make short footnotes, which in turn refer to the full citation in the bibliography (this saves space by not writing out the full citation each time the same source is used to support multiple statements). The article has evolved to the point that nearly all the citations are short footnote, and the article would be easier to read and maintain if the exceptions were migrated to the dominant style. Jc3s5h ( talk) 21:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Using the wrong citation style is not grounds for removal of content. We should encourage consistent style, but removing sourced content because you don't like the style is not within policy. Gaijin42 ( talk) 21:33, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
PoD : WP:NPA. Gaijin42 ( talk) 14:48, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)