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Of course, there was no "count of Pori" in the Swedish aristocracy, this is an anachronism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.65.145.15 ( talk) 23:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was No consensus Duja ► 09:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
The name registered with the Swedish House of Nobility is Horn af Björneborg. Wikipedia should not be used to invent new names. Teuton 14:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sueadoise, I suggest you take a look on the discussions om this site on how names are to be treated. The consensus is that the original names are used. Kings and roylaties have also been translated into English, which is acceptable but in my opinion not suitable for the nobility in general. The noble family Horn af Björneborg was ennobled by the Swedish king, therefore I chose to inform you of the full official name as it has always been recorded in the Swedish House of Nobility (I fail to see you point when you say this is of no relevance). You are inventing Finnish names here which is unacceptable. (I am quite surprised you did not translate also Horn to Torvi (Finnish)). Teuton 19:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Carl (not Kaarlo) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cwestgren ( talk • contribs) 00:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that he is called Horn, Count of Pori, when in fact he's last name is Horn af Björneborg and the city he was a count of wasn't even called Pori, but only Björneborg, at the time? This name is not historically correct, and the last name includes the af Björneborg part, which is not to be separated. This article ought to be named Gustaf Horn af Björneborg as that was this person's complete name. Aszev 15:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
If you want to change to have the other one be the name of the page, it has to be done properly. First get agreement among the editors here, then ask for an admin to help move the page properly since it will be a complicated move (over a redirect) that can't be done properly by a non-admin. You can put in a request at Wikipedia:Requested page moves. Meanwhile, I'll put it back to the way it was before today, because it's not acceptable to just have two pages each redirecting to the other and no way to find the content. Thanks. -- Coppertwig ( talk) 02:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Wait -- I was just reading Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles)#Other non-royal names, which says "Rule here is, "So-and-so, ordinal (if appropriate) title (of) place [...] Examples: Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, or Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston, [...]". I did some web searches which gave me the impression that "Gustav Horn" may be a much more commonly-used name for this individual than "Gustav Horn af Björneborg". I also saw the variant "Gustav Horn von Björneborg". The convention page says "In general, use the most commonly recognized English-language form of the name." So it seems to me that perhaps Gustav Horn, Count of Pori may be the appropriate name for the page after all, or possibly Gustav Horn af Björneborg, Count of Pori or Gustav Horn von Björneborg, Count of Pori. Can anyone look up the name in an encyclopedia of nobility or something and see how it represents the name? -- Coppertwig ( talk) 19:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
The sirname registered with the Swedish House of Nobility ( Riddarhuset) is "Horn af Björneborg" (anyone can check this on their website www.riddarhuset.se). He was made count of Björneborg (Swedish for Pori). He was addressed as Count Horn. The proper way on this page would be to use the full official name or just use Gustav Horn. // Teuton ( talk) 21:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Nationalencyklopedin calls him "Horn, Gustaf". [1] Svenskt biografiskt lexikon includes him as "Horn, Gustav" (volume 19, pages 361-364). Olaus ( talk) 00:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
As this is English Wikipedia, and not Swedish, please kindly use English sources. It is immaterial what sources in Swedish say. Such namings are welcome in Swedish Wikipedia, which really uses Swedish language in its texts. Suedois ( talk) 16:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Horn did not fight against the Saxons at Breitenfeld. The Saxons were allied with the Swedes (both being protestant) against Tilly's Imperial, Catholic force. John George was routed by the right wing of the Catholic force (under the command of Furstenberg). Horn, who was next in formation beside John George maneuvered his soldiers to prevent Furstenberg's men from flanking the main body of the Swedish force. Like so: [1] [2] [3]. Thanks. Staple ( talk) 08:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Gustav Horn, Count of Pori article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Of course, there was no "count of Pori" in the Swedish aristocracy, this is an anachronism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.65.145.15 ( talk) 23:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was No consensus Duja ► 09:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
The name registered with the Swedish House of Nobility is Horn af Björneborg. Wikipedia should not be used to invent new names. Teuton 14:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sueadoise, I suggest you take a look on the discussions om this site on how names are to be treated. The consensus is that the original names are used. Kings and roylaties have also been translated into English, which is acceptable but in my opinion not suitable for the nobility in general. The noble family Horn af Björneborg was ennobled by the Swedish king, therefore I chose to inform you of the full official name as it has always been recorded in the Swedish House of Nobility (I fail to see you point when you say this is of no relevance). You are inventing Finnish names here which is unacceptable. (I am quite surprised you did not translate also Horn to Torvi (Finnish)). Teuton 19:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Carl (not Kaarlo) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cwestgren ( talk • contribs) 00:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that he is called Horn, Count of Pori, when in fact he's last name is Horn af Björneborg and the city he was a count of wasn't even called Pori, but only Björneborg, at the time? This name is not historically correct, and the last name includes the af Björneborg part, which is not to be separated. This article ought to be named Gustaf Horn af Björneborg as that was this person's complete name. Aszev 15:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
If you want to change to have the other one be the name of the page, it has to be done properly. First get agreement among the editors here, then ask for an admin to help move the page properly since it will be a complicated move (over a redirect) that can't be done properly by a non-admin. You can put in a request at Wikipedia:Requested page moves. Meanwhile, I'll put it back to the way it was before today, because it's not acceptable to just have two pages each redirecting to the other and no way to find the content. Thanks. -- Coppertwig ( talk) 02:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Wait -- I was just reading Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles)#Other non-royal names, which says "Rule here is, "So-and-so, ordinal (if appropriate) title (of) place [...] Examples: Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, or Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston, [...]". I did some web searches which gave me the impression that "Gustav Horn" may be a much more commonly-used name for this individual than "Gustav Horn af Björneborg". I also saw the variant "Gustav Horn von Björneborg". The convention page says "In general, use the most commonly recognized English-language form of the name." So it seems to me that perhaps Gustav Horn, Count of Pori may be the appropriate name for the page after all, or possibly Gustav Horn af Björneborg, Count of Pori or Gustav Horn von Björneborg, Count of Pori. Can anyone look up the name in an encyclopedia of nobility or something and see how it represents the name? -- Coppertwig ( talk) 19:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
The sirname registered with the Swedish House of Nobility ( Riddarhuset) is "Horn af Björneborg" (anyone can check this on their website www.riddarhuset.se). He was made count of Björneborg (Swedish for Pori). He was addressed as Count Horn. The proper way on this page would be to use the full official name or just use Gustav Horn. // Teuton ( talk) 21:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Nationalencyklopedin calls him "Horn, Gustaf". [1] Svenskt biografiskt lexikon includes him as "Horn, Gustav" (volume 19, pages 361-364). Olaus ( talk) 00:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
As this is English Wikipedia, and not Swedish, please kindly use English sources. It is immaterial what sources in Swedish say. Such namings are welcome in Swedish Wikipedia, which really uses Swedish language in its texts. Suedois ( talk) 16:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Horn did not fight against the Saxons at Breitenfeld. The Saxons were allied with the Swedes (both being protestant) against Tilly's Imperial, Catholic force. John George was routed by the right wing of the Catholic force (under the command of Furstenberg). Horn, who was next in formation beside John George maneuvered his soldiers to prevent Furstenberg's men from flanking the main body of the Swedish force. Like so: [1] [2] [3]. Thanks. Staple ( talk) 08:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)