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There should be explicit text stating Mota's role in Gagne's record 84 consecutive saves. I think Mota was the setup man at the time and his bio should say so by mentioning the record, IMO.--
TonyTheTiger (
T/
C/
BIO/
WP:CHICAGO/
WP:FOUR)
03:25, 29 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Mota did not become Gagne's setup man until 2004 (mentioned), and Gagne's streak is mentioned because Mota was the winning pitcher for the eighty-fourth straight save.
Sanfranciscogiants17 (
talk)
13:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)reply
This article has potential, but it does have some issues that need to be addressed before it would be worthy of the +. I'll be providing comments in
tranches, because I doubt I'll have time to go over the whole article in one sitting.
First tranche of comments
Article-wide
The article needs to be audited for
MOS:NUM compliance. All numbers above nine should be written in numerals (10 and up) unless they are comparable quantities (see
WP:ORDINAL). Done
All images need
alternative text (two are currently without). On the line of images, the Dodgers picture is the best-quality image and therefore must be the infobox image. Compared to the current lead image, the Mota image illustrates the article best.
Are you sure the Dodgers picture should be the infobox image because it is the best quality image? The Giants image is definitely not as good, but it is a more recent photo, and you can tell what Mota looks like from it.
Sanfranciscogiants17 (
talk)
10:44, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
You can tell his general outline, but there's no clear view of his face, for one. The Dodgers image seems to be the only one that shows him pitching, in motion, with his face showing (relatively) clearly. So yes, I'm sure. If a high-quality recent more image is found, that would obviously take precedence, but of the images on Commons, the Dodgers one is clearly superior. —
KV5 •
Talk •
10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Avoid baseball jargon such as "going 6–3"; these things need to be explicitly illustrated (i.e., a 6–3 record). If they cannot be avoided, or if they are used to reduce repetition, you should link to the
Glossary of baseball. Done
Another article-wide comment added June 3: references need to be consistently formatted. If you link one source, you have to link them all each time. Also: MLB.com is not a publisher, it is a work, as are all websites and newspapers (especially newspapers). On MLB's website, the work should be "teamname dot MLB dot com" (examples: Redsox.MLB.com; Phillies.MLB.com), and the publisher is "Major League Baseball". For Baseball-Reference, it needs to be "Baseball-Reference.com", and the publisher is "Sports Reference LLC". For Retrosheet, you can either fill in "Retrosheet.com" for the work, "Retrosheet, Inc" as the publisher, or both. Done
Lead
Suggest adding player's official height and weight in the lead (with {{convert}} templates). Done
The second paragraph is huge. Break it up. Done
The lead is overlinked; each team should only be linked at first appearance in the lead. Done
"Rule V" should be Rule 5, as per the article Done
You say forms of "struggle" twice in quick succession; change one Done
The lead has "He... he... he... he...." over and over again. Re-word some of those sentences or replace some pronouns with "Mota" to reduce the repetitiveness. You also don't need the second "he" in many of the sentences that are structured "He... but he". You can just remove the second (example: He became the setup man to closer Éric Gagné in 2004, but was traded to the Florida Marlins midseason. There are more; that's just one instance. Done
The third paragraph should be subsumed into another paragraph of the lead (if it needs to be in there at all); one sentence isn't acceptable for a paragraph. Pitch names should also be linked. Done
In the infobox: "Win-Loss" needs to be "Win–loss" - win and loss are not proper nouns, and it is an en-dash just like when it is the numbers (in other words, 12–10 is the same as win–loss). Done
In the infobox: "2010-present" needs an en-dash Done
Early years and minor league
"in San Pedro de Macorís, located in the Dominican Republic." Done
"Jose Joaquin Perez" - are there any diacritics needed here?
This name came from Mota's MLB.com bio. There were no diacritics there, but there also are no diacritics on MLB.com, so I'll let you decide what to do there.
Sanfranciscogiants17 (
talk)
15:46, 3 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Hm, an interesting conundrum. I might bring it up at
WT:MLB once I've had a chance to think about it and do a little research of my own. —
KV5 •
Talk •
10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
"two years of playing baseball" Done
"in 1993, as a third baseman." - remove comma Done
"He batted .249" - you should make batting average explicit on first use; afterward, saying "he batted..." is fine. Done
"Next season, he spent most of the season" - twice season; change one to year (pref. the second) Done
"he batted just .245" - there are a lot of these unneeded modifiers in the article that need to be removed. Done
"In 1995" - comma after Done
Since you use the ERA abbreviation throughout the article, after "earned run average" you need to add (ERA) to make that explicit. Done
"batted just .243" - again, modifier Done
"Rule V draft" - Rule 5 again Done
"he went 5–10" - this is probably the most egregious poor use of jargon; "he went so-and-so" isn't professional-style writing, even if professional sportswriters do it, and there are many instances Done
1999
"Mota made his major league debut with them the same day" Done
All instances of fractional innings written as decimals need to be changed. It's not two-and-two-tenths innings; it's 2+2⁄3 innings. Baseball readers know this, but uninitiated readers will read the former and not understand two-tenths of an inning. Done
"He got" - you have two straight sentences starting with the same phrase; there are better ways to say this. Consider "He earned", "He captured", "He procured"... there are other options, these are just a few suggestions. Done
"ERA on the season" - should be for the season in both instances (or re-write one sentence to reduce repetitiveness) Done
"Despite his great rookie season" - in whose opinion? Using modifiers like "great" isn't
neutral, unless you can cite it to a reliable source and quote it directly. Done
More doubled "He... and he" structures here Done
"After he had a 12.60 ERA" - better would be After amassing a 12.60 ERA or something similar Done
You say "to Ottawa" several times in quick succession. You could replace one or more with "to the Lynx", "to the minor leagues", etc. Done
"before he was again returned to Ottawa" - there are two of these Done
"improved greatly in September" - according to whom? Done
"one third" - should be 1⁄3 or one-third, your choice Done
"a 16.62 ERA over his next six games moved his ERA up to 4.00" - a non-baseball reader isn't going to understand this. Something more like "xxx' earned runs over his next six games raised his ERA to 4.00 would be better. Done
"He settled down after that, though" - very informal language for an encyclopedia Done
"after that 12 game stretch" - 12-game is a compound adjective Done
"he had a 22.50 ERA over his next four games that brought his ERA up to 4.29" - as above Done
"He... but he" or "He... and he" are frequent in this section Done
"twelve-inning" - 12-inning Done
"He went" jargons again Done
"15.2 consecutive scoreless" - innings again Done
"off of Joe Roa" - against Joe Roa would be better, "off of" is informal Done
"After Paul Quantrill became a free agent" - you've already mentioned and linked Quantrill, so you can remove his first name Done
"did not give up a run" - did not allow a run would be better Done
"five game winning streak" - five-game Done
"final save of his 84 straight converted save chances" - perhaps a link to
Save (baseball)#Most consecutive somewhere in here? Done
Link closer at its first appearance in the article prose (I just now noticed it wasn't linked) Done
You need the (NL) abbreviation after the first appearance of National League Done
Marlins
"fifth best average" - fifth-best average Done
"who had been filling in for Mota as the closer, remained the closer" - repetitive; you could probably strike "as the closer" without affecting the meaning Done
"but a 16.20 ERA through his next seven games raised his ERA to 7.27" - as above Done
"he improved after that" - according to who? Done
"7–6 victory over St. Louis" - ok, so who is St. Louis, if I'm not a baseball reader? The whole article will need to be audited to ensure that team names appear in full and linked at first occurrence.
"and blew a 4–1 lead" - what's blowing a lead (for non-baseballers)? Done
"Mota then pitched two" Done
I know that MOS:NUM says numbers under 10 are words (and I mentioned that earlier), but game names are an exception in the baseball world, as nearly all reliable sources refer to them with numerals, so change to Game 2, Game 3, etc. Done
"$5 million two-year contract" - should be two-year, $5 million contract Done
"as he had a 7.71 ERA in them" - poor wording; better would be something simpler like collecting a 7.71 ERA Done
"as he had a 1.89 ERA in them" - same thing, but don't repeat the same identical wording Done
"During the streak" - what streak? Done
Brewers
"Mota got off to a great start in 2008" - says who? Not the pure statistical reference Done
"Éric Gagné" - remove first name Done
Ref 75 doesn't mention the All-Star break; use a numeric date instead Done
"in the final 1.1 innings" - as above Done
Dodgers
Why do the Dodgers suddenly have a year when the previous several sections don't? You lose the chronological sense of reference. Is it just because he had two stints with them? If so, this could be better dealt with by removing the year from the first section and renaming the second. Done
"However, he improved dramatically after that, as he had a 0.26 ERA over his next 29 games" - source doesn't say any of that, unless I'm missing something Done
"seventeen straight games" - 17 Done
"he then had a" Done
"his lowest ERA since 2004" - you don't need to repeat "ERA" here Done
Giants
"an invite" - formality; invitation, not "invite" Done
"fourteenth and fifteenth... fifteenth" - all should be numeric Done
"Iliotibial band syndrome" - this isn't a proper noun, decapitalize Done
"National League West Division" - as above, NL West Done
Piazza
"catcher for the New York Mets" - either the Mets or New York, the former preferred due to ambiguity Done
"Mota again hit Piazza" Done
"and both Mota and Piazza" or change to and both players Done
"Piazza still searched the clubhouse before leaving too" Done
"and fined, Mota $1,500" - change comma to unspaced
em-dash Done
Pitching style
The reference, whose reliability for scouting I question (TSN is great for stats, but whose scouts are those?), says that the change-up is a circle change-up, so that should be changed here and in the lead.
Fangraphs also shows that he has, at times, used a splitter and curveball in the past, which you should also reference. Done
Reference section
All New York Times references need to have their titles put in
title case, not all caps, per
MOS:CAP. Done
This should be enough to get started for now. After these three groups of comments are complete, please ping my talk page so that I can re-review the article in full. Thanks, and happy editing. —
KV5 •
Talk •
19:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Further comments
Links in the ref section need to be fixed. The MLB website page needs to be linked instead of Major League Baseball (pipelink all the team subsites to MLB.com) and link
Baseball-Reference.com.
Both can be linked, but since the website has its own article, that is preferred so that all formats remain alike. You have already linked the organization in the article anyway. This ensures that everything is connected. —
KV5 •
Talk •
21:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)reply
"However, he began pitching better in September." - pure statistical references do not verify commentary of this nature Done
Your heavy reliance on reference #1 is a problem. First, it's an official league source (see
WP:PRIMARYSOURCE). Second, most of the information is not directly contained on that page; it's contained in a popout Javascript window and it's buried. It has to be more clear where the information came from and how readers can get to and verify it. If I wasn't familiar with MLB.com, I wouldn't have known where to look. Done
Mota did not lead NL pitchers in innings pitched in 2003 (
not even close, in fact). Figure out what's wrong. Done
"normal closer" - what do you mean by "normal"? Surely there is a better word Done
"he got his first save as a Marlin in an 11–5 victory over Arizona" - how did he get a save in a six-run victory? Odd enough that it bears explaining. Done
"However, he began pitching better after that." - commentary not verified by pure statistics Done
Section header with a slash not preferred; see
MOS:SLASH for better usages Done
"He struggled in his first 16 games, collecting a 7.71 ERA in them.[69] However, he improved over his next 15 games, amassing a 1.89 ERA in them.[69]" - very similar sentences back-to-back; reword Done
The section on Piazza doesn't need to have the references duplicated so many times. If a reference verifies three sentences, it can be placed at the end of the third, not the end of the first, second, and third. You only need to duplicate a reference if another reference comes in between. Done
I question the reliability of TSN as a scouting source. Is there a better reference?
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BaseballWikipedia:WikiProject BaseballTemplate:WikiProject BaseballBaseball articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the
Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the
welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
There should be explicit text stating Mota's role in Gagne's record 84 consecutive saves. I think Mota was the setup man at the time and his bio should say so by mentioning the record, IMO.--
TonyTheTiger (
T/
C/
BIO/
WP:CHICAGO/
WP:FOUR)
03:25, 29 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Mota did not become Gagne's setup man until 2004 (mentioned), and Gagne's streak is mentioned because Mota was the winning pitcher for the eighty-fourth straight save.
Sanfranciscogiants17 (
talk)
13:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)reply
This article has potential, but it does have some issues that need to be addressed before it would be worthy of the +. I'll be providing comments in
tranches, because I doubt I'll have time to go over the whole article in one sitting.
First tranche of comments
Article-wide
The article needs to be audited for
MOS:NUM compliance. All numbers above nine should be written in numerals (10 and up) unless they are comparable quantities (see
WP:ORDINAL). Done
All images need
alternative text (two are currently without). On the line of images, the Dodgers picture is the best-quality image and therefore must be the infobox image. Compared to the current lead image, the Mota image illustrates the article best.
Are you sure the Dodgers picture should be the infobox image because it is the best quality image? The Giants image is definitely not as good, but it is a more recent photo, and you can tell what Mota looks like from it.
Sanfranciscogiants17 (
talk)
10:44, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
You can tell his general outline, but there's no clear view of his face, for one. The Dodgers image seems to be the only one that shows him pitching, in motion, with his face showing (relatively) clearly. So yes, I'm sure. If a high-quality recent more image is found, that would obviously take precedence, but of the images on Commons, the Dodgers one is clearly superior. —
KV5 •
Talk •
10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Avoid baseball jargon such as "going 6–3"; these things need to be explicitly illustrated (i.e., a 6–3 record). If they cannot be avoided, or if they are used to reduce repetition, you should link to the
Glossary of baseball. Done
Another article-wide comment added June 3: references need to be consistently formatted. If you link one source, you have to link them all each time. Also: MLB.com is not a publisher, it is a work, as are all websites and newspapers (especially newspapers). On MLB's website, the work should be "teamname dot MLB dot com" (examples: Redsox.MLB.com; Phillies.MLB.com), and the publisher is "Major League Baseball". For Baseball-Reference, it needs to be "Baseball-Reference.com", and the publisher is "Sports Reference LLC". For Retrosheet, you can either fill in "Retrosheet.com" for the work, "Retrosheet, Inc" as the publisher, or both. Done
Lead
Suggest adding player's official height and weight in the lead (with {{convert}} templates). Done
The second paragraph is huge. Break it up. Done
The lead is overlinked; each team should only be linked at first appearance in the lead. Done
"Rule V" should be Rule 5, as per the article Done
You say forms of "struggle" twice in quick succession; change one Done
The lead has "He... he... he... he...." over and over again. Re-word some of those sentences or replace some pronouns with "Mota" to reduce the repetitiveness. You also don't need the second "he" in many of the sentences that are structured "He... but he". You can just remove the second (example: He became the setup man to closer Éric Gagné in 2004, but was traded to the Florida Marlins midseason. There are more; that's just one instance. Done
The third paragraph should be subsumed into another paragraph of the lead (if it needs to be in there at all); one sentence isn't acceptable for a paragraph. Pitch names should also be linked. Done
In the infobox: "Win-Loss" needs to be "Win–loss" - win and loss are not proper nouns, and it is an en-dash just like when it is the numbers (in other words, 12–10 is the same as win–loss). Done
In the infobox: "2010-present" needs an en-dash Done
Early years and minor league
"in San Pedro de Macorís, located in the Dominican Republic." Done
"Jose Joaquin Perez" - are there any diacritics needed here?
This name came from Mota's MLB.com bio. There were no diacritics there, but there also are no diacritics on MLB.com, so I'll let you decide what to do there.
Sanfranciscogiants17 (
talk)
15:46, 3 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Hm, an interesting conundrum. I might bring it up at
WT:MLB once I've had a chance to think about it and do a little research of my own. —
KV5 •
Talk •
10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
"two years of playing baseball" Done
"in 1993, as a third baseman." - remove comma Done
"He batted .249" - you should make batting average explicit on first use; afterward, saying "he batted..." is fine. Done
"Next season, he spent most of the season" - twice season; change one to year (pref. the second) Done
"he batted just .245" - there are a lot of these unneeded modifiers in the article that need to be removed. Done
"In 1995" - comma after Done
Since you use the ERA abbreviation throughout the article, after "earned run average" you need to add (ERA) to make that explicit. Done
"batted just .243" - again, modifier Done
"Rule V draft" - Rule 5 again Done
"he went 5–10" - this is probably the most egregious poor use of jargon; "he went so-and-so" isn't professional-style writing, even if professional sportswriters do it, and there are many instances Done
1999
"Mota made his major league debut with them the same day" Done
All instances of fractional innings written as decimals need to be changed. It's not two-and-two-tenths innings; it's 2+2⁄3 innings. Baseball readers know this, but uninitiated readers will read the former and not understand two-tenths of an inning. Done
"He got" - you have two straight sentences starting with the same phrase; there are better ways to say this. Consider "He earned", "He captured", "He procured"... there are other options, these are just a few suggestions. Done
"ERA on the season" - should be for the season in both instances (or re-write one sentence to reduce repetitiveness) Done
"Despite his great rookie season" - in whose opinion? Using modifiers like "great" isn't
neutral, unless you can cite it to a reliable source and quote it directly. Done
More doubled "He... and he" structures here Done
"After he had a 12.60 ERA" - better would be After amassing a 12.60 ERA or something similar Done
You say "to Ottawa" several times in quick succession. You could replace one or more with "to the Lynx", "to the minor leagues", etc. Done
"before he was again returned to Ottawa" - there are two of these Done
"improved greatly in September" - according to whom? Done
"one third" - should be 1⁄3 or one-third, your choice Done
"a 16.62 ERA over his next six games moved his ERA up to 4.00" - a non-baseball reader isn't going to understand this. Something more like "xxx' earned runs over his next six games raised his ERA to 4.00 would be better. Done
"He settled down after that, though" - very informal language for an encyclopedia Done
"after that 12 game stretch" - 12-game is a compound adjective Done
"he had a 22.50 ERA over his next four games that brought his ERA up to 4.29" - as above Done
"He... but he" or "He... and he" are frequent in this section Done
"twelve-inning" - 12-inning Done
"He went" jargons again Done
"15.2 consecutive scoreless" - innings again Done
"off of Joe Roa" - against Joe Roa would be better, "off of" is informal Done
"After Paul Quantrill became a free agent" - you've already mentioned and linked Quantrill, so you can remove his first name Done
"did not give up a run" - did not allow a run would be better Done
"five game winning streak" - five-game Done
"final save of his 84 straight converted save chances" - perhaps a link to
Save (baseball)#Most consecutive somewhere in here? Done
Link closer at its first appearance in the article prose (I just now noticed it wasn't linked) Done
You need the (NL) abbreviation after the first appearance of National League Done
Marlins
"fifth best average" - fifth-best average Done
"who had been filling in for Mota as the closer, remained the closer" - repetitive; you could probably strike "as the closer" without affecting the meaning Done
"but a 16.20 ERA through his next seven games raised his ERA to 7.27" - as above Done
"he improved after that" - according to who? Done
"7–6 victory over St. Louis" - ok, so who is St. Louis, if I'm not a baseball reader? The whole article will need to be audited to ensure that team names appear in full and linked at first occurrence.
"and blew a 4–1 lead" - what's blowing a lead (for non-baseballers)? Done
"Mota then pitched two" Done
I know that MOS:NUM says numbers under 10 are words (and I mentioned that earlier), but game names are an exception in the baseball world, as nearly all reliable sources refer to them with numerals, so change to Game 2, Game 3, etc. Done
"$5 million two-year contract" - should be two-year, $5 million contract Done
"as he had a 7.71 ERA in them" - poor wording; better would be something simpler like collecting a 7.71 ERA Done
"as he had a 1.89 ERA in them" - same thing, but don't repeat the same identical wording Done
"During the streak" - what streak? Done
Brewers
"Mota got off to a great start in 2008" - says who? Not the pure statistical reference Done
"Éric Gagné" - remove first name Done
Ref 75 doesn't mention the All-Star break; use a numeric date instead Done
"in the final 1.1 innings" - as above Done
Dodgers
Why do the Dodgers suddenly have a year when the previous several sections don't? You lose the chronological sense of reference. Is it just because he had two stints with them? If so, this could be better dealt with by removing the year from the first section and renaming the second. Done
"However, he improved dramatically after that, as he had a 0.26 ERA over his next 29 games" - source doesn't say any of that, unless I'm missing something Done
"seventeen straight games" - 17 Done
"he then had a" Done
"his lowest ERA since 2004" - you don't need to repeat "ERA" here Done
Giants
"an invite" - formality; invitation, not "invite" Done
"fourteenth and fifteenth... fifteenth" - all should be numeric Done
"Iliotibial band syndrome" - this isn't a proper noun, decapitalize Done
"National League West Division" - as above, NL West Done
Piazza
"catcher for the New York Mets" - either the Mets or New York, the former preferred due to ambiguity Done
"Mota again hit Piazza" Done
"and both Mota and Piazza" or change to and both players Done
"Piazza still searched the clubhouse before leaving too" Done
"and fined, Mota $1,500" - change comma to unspaced
em-dash Done
Pitching style
The reference, whose reliability for scouting I question (TSN is great for stats, but whose scouts are those?), says that the change-up is a circle change-up, so that should be changed here and in the lead.
Fangraphs also shows that he has, at times, used a splitter and curveball in the past, which you should also reference. Done
Reference section
All New York Times references need to have their titles put in
title case, not all caps, per
MOS:CAP. Done
This should be enough to get started for now. After these three groups of comments are complete, please ping my talk page so that I can re-review the article in full. Thanks, and happy editing. —
KV5 •
Talk •
19:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Further comments
Links in the ref section need to be fixed. The MLB website page needs to be linked instead of Major League Baseball (pipelink all the team subsites to MLB.com) and link
Baseball-Reference.com.
Both can be linked, but since the website has its own article, that is preferred so that all formats remain alike. You have already linked the organization in the article anyway. This ensures that everything is connected. —
KV5 •
Talk •
21:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)reply
"However, he began pitching better in September." - pure statistical references do not verify commentary of this nature Done
Your heavy reliance on reference #1 is a problem. First, it's an official league source (see
WP:PRIMARYSOURCE). Second, most of the information is not directly contained on that page; it's contained in a popout Javascript window and it's buried. It has to be more clear where the information came from and how readers can get to and verify it. If I wasn't familiar with MLB.com, I wouldn't have known where to look. Done
Mota did not lead NL pitchers in innings pitched in 2003 (
not even close, in fact). Figure out what's wrong. Done
"normal closer" - what do you mean by "normal"? Surely there is a better word Done
"he got his first save as a Marlin in an 11–5 victory over Arizona" - how did he get a save in a six-run victory? Odd enough that it bears explaining. Done
"However, he began pitching better after that." - commentary not verified by pure statistics Done
Section header with a slash not preferred; see
MOS:SLASH for better usages Done
"He struggled in his first 16 games, collecting a 7.71 ERA in them.[69] However, he improved over his next 15 games, amassing a 1.89 ERA in them.[69]" - very similar sentences back-to-back; reword Done
The section on Piazza doesn't need to have the references duplicated so many times. If a reference verifies three sentences, it can be placed at the end of the third, not the end of the first, second, and third. You only need to duplicate a reference if another reference comes in between. Done
I question the reliability of TSN as a scouting source. Is there a better reference?