Wikilinking is a little on the low side; I've dropped in a few, but I'm sure that plenty more relevant links can be added. This won't affect GA pass/fail.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:36, 7 April 2015 (UTC)reply
In the lead Approximately 500,000 people benefited from the decree, the majority of them indigenous people who had been dispossessed after the Spanish invasion. needs to be rephrased. The people who had been dispossessed were long dead... I know what you mean but it could do with "whose ancestors had been dispossessed" or somesuch.Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:41, 7 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure that works either, since it gives the impression of immediate family, when we're talking of over 400 years. Perhaps "forbears"?
Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Check your accenting of Spanish-language names/words through-out. It is quite inconsistent; I've found both Arbenz and Árbenz, Arevalo and Arévalo (I've changed all instances of both these names to the accented version).Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:18, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for reminding me. When I created it in userspace, I used the unaccented uniformly, simply because its a pain to use special characters. I ran through once before, but I've added content since then, and forgot. mea culpa, and thanks for checking, but I'll do another check myself.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:34, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The articles look good, and I do have JSTOR access, so thanks! FYI, the Gleijeses article you used is essentially a chapter of the book I used as a source, I believe. I don't think this is a problem, just thought I should let you know. As I understand it, he published many of the chapters of that book as articles before and after.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
14:37, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm inclined to leave it, because people without the book (google books is not the most convenient) might have access. I brought it up because I was unsure if there was a guideline about it.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
15:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Dictatorship of Jorge Ubico
complete immunity from prosecution due to any action they took to defend... would be better as complete immunity from prosecution for any action...Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This one I'm not so sure about; I believe the term comes from the source, and the reason for that was that "working class" is frequently used in academia to mean industrial/urban workers, whereas the sentence refers to manual laborers, predominantly agricultural. I will check the source in just a bit.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
20:47, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Okay, I looked this up. The source uses several interchangeable terms, but the most common one is the Spanish campesino. This is commonly translated as "peasant," but I've heard that "peasantry" is a little pejorative, and so I've rendered this as "agricultural laborers." Is that okay?
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
22:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I would say in the context peasant is fine, but "peasant farmers" would be better - I wouldn't consider peasant or peasantry to be perjorative when referring to such farmers in Guatemala (and much of Latin America), where many live in very basic conditions.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
22:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Maybe just me, but I have an intense dislike of unnecessary acronyms, like UFC. In a paragraph I would use the full name of the company in the first instance, and just company thereafter, if there is no ambiguity.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:23, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've done this in a couple of places, left it in in one place because I felt it might be a little ambiguous. I'll do it through the rest of the article, too.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've removed it through the article, with I think three exceptions, two of them where multiple companies are referred to, and one where there would have been too many uses in one sentence.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
16:04, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
and rural areas too began organizing, would be better as and rural areas also... (in which case, the following sentence beginning The government also began would be better with the "also" dropped).Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:35, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
launched a coup, led by the coup-plotters - "the coup-plotters" is redundant here. "led by Francisco Javier Arana and Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán" is sufficient, it is implicit that they are coup-plotters.Simon Burchell (
talk)
20:55, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Organización Regional Internacional Trabajo doesn't read well in Spanish, looks like it's missing something (probably "de" or "del" between Internacional and Trabajo).Simon Burchell (
talk)
20:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
As the highest ranking military officer in the October Revolution, Francisco Arana had led the three-man military junta - this contradicts the Interim Presidency of Ponce Vaides section, which says a small group of army officers launched a coup, led by Francisco Javier Arana and Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán, unless I'm misunderstanding something.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:06, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I think you might be misunderstanding something; there were two three-person juntas around that time. Ubico resigned end-June, and handed over power to a three-person junta led by Ponce Vaides, who soon persuaded Congress to appoint him interim president. In October, Arana and Arbenz led the coup, and once in power, formed a junta along with Toriello. This second junta was led by Arana, since he was the ranking officer among the rebels. If there is a wording change that would make this clearer, I'm happy to make it.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
00:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
PAR - you are using the Spanish acronym, referring to a party you have previously only named in English - either give the Spanish and the acronym after the first mention, or replace the acronym.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:09, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
All of the sources I've seen use the Spanish acronym; I've never seen RAP. Therefore, I've used a piped link at the first usage to show the Spanish name instead, and I've also inserted the acronym there.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
a small fragment of the FPL split from the parent party to support him - is this fragmentation of the FPL, or did this split from another party? If the "fragment" represents a division of the FPL, I would dump "from the parent party" and replace it with "...of the FPL split off to support him"Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:12, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This was indeed a division of the FPL. They named themselves the FPL Ortodoxo, but they became marginalized very quick, so I didn't want to expand on that in the text. I'd amended it like you suggested.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Note Simon, apologies for inserting the 1949 coup section after the review began; I an unsure how I neglected it in the first place. In any case, it is now in place.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Something not quite right about the name of this subsection, which looks like a biography subsection sitting uncomfortably in the article. Perhaps rename it as "Background of Jacobo Árbenz" or something.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:29, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
he began plotting against the government along with his fellow officers, perhaps rephrase as "he and his fellow officers began plotting..."Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:35, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
When Ubico resigned in 1944, Árbenz witnessed Ponce Vaides intimidate the congress into naming him president. Highly offended by this, Árbenz began plotting against Ponce Vaides, and was one of the military leaders of the coup that toppled him, in addition to being one of the few officers in the revolution who formed and maintained connections to the popular civilian movement - this seems a bit out of place; it should either be moved into the appropriate section earlier in the article, or change the tense to past perfect.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This stuff was in here because sources tend to link his ideology and his background, so moving it up would not, IMO, be useful. Therefore, I've changed it to past perfect, but I might have missed something.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
01:34, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
673 acres - earlier in the article, you were using hectares. It would be best to put convert templates in for all units of measurement throughout the article.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've prefaced dollars with "US" in all cases but those where the article is discussing things in the US itself. If you think that is necessary, I will put them there, too.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
00:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've actually linked it several times, because that seemed appropriate; I just put one into the lead, but there are a few more in the body. It seemed appropriate, because the term is a complex one, so I've linked basically first use in several sections. If you think they should be removed, I can do that.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
00:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Again, I would replace instances of UFC the full name or with "the company" as appropriate - since the whole section is about United Fruit, it should be obvious which company.Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
and a number of human rights violations, makes it sound like there were only a few, and should be rephrased to give a more accurate idea of the scale (and cited to support this).Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:32, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Cullather 2006 isn't actually referenced, so it should be moved to Further reading. Preview is available from Google Books, so it could be hyperlinked.Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Forster 2001, preview available from Google Books, so I've linked the ref. Likewise Gleijeses 1991 - preview of the 1992 paperback edition online, and linked.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
12:02, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
AGF on offline sources. I spotchecked the one online source, and the Google previews of Forster 2001 and Gleijeses 1991/1992 (page numbers appear unchanged between the paperback/hardback editions), which revealed no copyvio concerns. Going forward (and this won't affect GA outcome), it would be good to have a short section near the beginning summarising the country's geography, major cities (Guatemala City and Quetzaltenango), and demographics (Maya concentrated in the highlands, Ladinos in the towns and cities, the Pacific coastal plain and the east), and regional production, since this does have some bearing on how the revolution and following civil war played out. All in all, an interesting and well put-together article. Once my remaining concerns have been addressed, I expect to pass the article fairly rapidly. Well done,
Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:55, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Simon Burchell, thanks for a very helpful, quick, and thorough review. I believe I have addressed every one of the points you raised; let me know if there's anything else, or any of them is incomplete. FWIW, I'm also happy to provide quotes from the offline sources, if there are particular cases you wish to verify. Regards,
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
03:55, 11 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Wikilinking is a little on the low side; I've dropped in a few, but I'm sure that plenty more relevant links can be added. This won't affect GA pass/fail.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:36, 7 April 2015 (UTC)reply
In the lead Approximately 500,000 people benefited from the decree, the majority of them indigenous people who had been dispossessed after the Spanish invasion. needs to be rephrased. The people who had been dispossessed were long dead... I know what you mean but it could do with "whose ancestors had been dispossessed" or somesuch.Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:41, 7 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure that works either, since it gives the impression of immediate family, when we're talking of over 400 years. Perhaps "forbears"?
Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Check your accenting of Spanish-language names/words through-out. It is quite inconsistent; I've found both Arbenz and Árbenz, Arevalo and Arévalo (I've changed all instances of both these names to the accented version).Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:18, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for reminding me. When I created it in userspace, I used the unaccented uniformly, simply because its a pain to use special characters. I ran through once before, but I've added content since then, and forgot. mea culpa, and thanks for checking, but I'll do another check myself.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:34, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The articles look good, and I do have JSTOR access, so thanks! FYI, the Gleijeses article you used is essentially a chapter of the book I used as a source, I believe. I don't think this is a problem, just thought I should let you know. As I understand it, he published many of the chapters of that book as articles before and after.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
14:37, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm inclined to leave it, because people without the book (google books is not the most convenient) might have access. I brought it up because I was unsure if there was a guideline about it.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
15:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Dictatorship of Jorge Ubico
complete immunity from prosecution due to any action they took to defend... would be better as complete immunity from prosecution for any action...Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This one I'm not so sure about; I believe the term comes from the source, and the reason for that was that "working class" is frequently used in academia to mean industrial/urban workers, whereas the sentence refers to manual laborers, predominantly agricultural. I will check the source in just a bit.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
20:47, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Okay, I looked this up. The source uses several interchangeable terms, but the most common one is the Spanish campesino. This is commonly translated as "peasant," but I've heard that "peasantry" is a little pejorative, and so I've rendered this as "agricultural laborers." Is that okay?
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
22:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I would say in the context peasant is fine, but "peasant farmers" would be better - I wouldn't consider peasant or peasantry to be perjorative when referring to such farmers in Guatemala (and much of Latin America), where many live in very basic conditions.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
22:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Maybe just me, but I have an intense dislike of unnecessary acronyms, like UFC. In a paragraph I would use the full name of the company in the first instance, and just company thereafter, if there is no ambiguity.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:23, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've done this in a couple of places, left it in in one place because I felt it might be a little ambiguous. I'll do it through the rest of the article, too.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've removed it through the article, with I think three exceptions, two of them where multiple companies are referred to, and one where there would have been too many uses in one sentence.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
16:04, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
and rural areas too began organizing, would be better as and rural areas also... (in which case, the following sentence beginning The government also began would be better with the "also" dropped).Simon Burchell (
talk)
19:35, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
launched a coup, led by the coup-plotters - "the coup-plotters" is redundant here. "led by Francisco Javier Arana and Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán" is sufficient, it is implicit that they are coup-plotters.Simon Burchell (
talk)
20:55, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Organización Regional Internacional Trabajo doesn't read well in Spanish, looks like it's missing something (probably "de" or "del" between Internacional and Trabajo).Simon Burchell (
talk)
20:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)reply
As the highest ranking military officer in the October Revolution, Francisco Arana had led the three-man military junta - this contradicts the Interim Presidency of Ponce Vaides section, which says a small group of army officers launched a coup, led by Francisco Javier Arana and Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán, unless I'm misunderstanding something.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:06, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I think you might be misunderstanding something; there were two three-person juntas around that time. Ubico resigned end-June, and handed over power to a three-person junta led by Ponce Vaides, who soon persuaded Congress to appoint him interim president. In October, Arana and Arbenz led the coup, and once in power, formed a junta along with Toriello. This second junta was led by Arana, since he was the ranking officer among the rebels. If there is a wording change that would make this clearer, I'm happy to make it.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
00:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
PAR - you are using the Spanish acronym, referring to a party you have previously only named in English - either give the Spanish and the acronym after the first mention, or replace the acronym.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:09, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
All of the sources I've seen use the Spanish acronym; I've never seen RAP. Therefore, I've used a piped link at the first usage to show the Spanish name instead, and I've also inserted the acronym there.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
a small fragment of the FPL split from the parent party to support him - is this fragmentation of the FPL, or did this split from another party? If the "fragment" represents a division of the FPL, I would dump "from the parent party" and replace it with "...of the FPL split off to support him"Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:12, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This was indeed a division of the FPL. They named themselves the FPL Ortodoxo, but they became marginalized very quick, so I didn't want to expand on that in the text. I'd amended it like you suggested.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Note Simon, apologies for inserting the 1949 coup section after the review began; I an unsure how I neglected it in the first place. In any case, it is now in place.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
21:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Something not quite right about the name of this subsection, which looks like a biography subsection sitting uncomfortably in the article. Perhaps rename it as "Background of Jacobo Árbenz" or something.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:29, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
he began plotting against the government along with his fellow officers, perhaps rephrase as "he and his fellow officers began plotting..."Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:35, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
When Ubico resigned in 1944, Árbenz witnessed Ponce Vaides intimidate the congress into naming him president. Highly offended by this, Árbenz began plotting against Ponce Vaides, and was one of the military leaders of the coup that toppled him, in addition to being one of the few officers in the revolution who formed and maintained connections to the popular civilian movement - this seems a bit out of place; it should either be moved into the appropriate section earlier in the article, or change the tense to past perfect.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This stuff was in here because sources tend to link his ideology and his background, so moving it up would not, IMO, be useful. Therefore, I've changed it to past perfect, but I might have missed something.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
01:34, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
673 acres - earlier in the article, you were using hectares. It would be best to put convert templates in for all units of measurement throughout the article.Simon Burchell (
talk)
21:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've prefaced dollars with "US" in all cases but those where the article is discussing things in the US itself. If you think that is necessary, I will put them there, too.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
00:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I've actually linked it several times, because that seemed appropriate; I just put one into the lead, but there are a few more in the body. It seemed appropriate, because the term is a complex one, so I've linked basically first use in several sections. If you think they should be removed, I can do that.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
00:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Again, I would replace instances of UFC the full name or with "the company" as appropriate - since the whole section is about United Fruit, it should be obvious which company.Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
and a number of human rights violations, makes it sound like there were only a few, and should be rephrased to give a more accurate idea of the scale (and cited to support this).Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:32, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Cullather 2006 isn't actually referenced, so it should be moved to Further reading. Preview is available from Google Books, so it could be hyperlinked.Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Forster 2001, preview available from Google Books, so I've linked the ref. Likewise Gleijeses 1991 - preview of the 1992 paperback edition online, and linked.
Simon Burchell (
talk)
12:02, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
AGF on offline sources. I spotchecked the one online source, and the Google previews of Forster 2001 and Gleijeses 1991/1992 (page numbers appear unchanged between the paperback/hardback editions), which revealed no copyvio concerns. Going forward (and this won't affect GA outcome), it would be good to have a short section near the beginning summarising the country's geography, major cities (Guatemala City and Quetzaltenango), and demographics (Maya concentrated in the highlands, Ladinos in the towns and cities, the Pacific coastal plain and the east), and regional production, since this does have some bearing on how the revolution and following civil war played out. All in all, an interesting and well put-together article. Once my remaining concerns have been addressed, I expect to pass the article fairly rapidly. Well done,
Simon Burchell (
talk)
11:55, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Simon Burchell, thanks for a very helpful, quick, and thorough review. I believe I have addressed every one of the points you raised; let me know if there's anything else, or any of them is incomplete. FWIW, I'm also happy to provide quotes from the offline sources, if there are particular cases you wish to verify. Regards,
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
03:55, 11 April 2015 (UTC)reply