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Since someone marked three statements in the article as disputed, but didn't bother to explain why I'm tempted to remove the disputed claims. However that seems inapproprieate here, so I'll provide my arguements for supporting the current statements.
Claim 1: racing
The article states: "Changes in public opinion regarding blood sport has essentially removed the Greyhound from hunting and relegated the breed to parimutuel stakes racing."
In a section about Greyhounds in racing, it seems like this is about right. One might suggest that the section should be renamed to be something like "Greyhounds as working animals" or "Greyhounds in Sport" and more detail about other work they perform might be suggested (vet research is about the only other "work" I'm aware of modern Greyhounds doing, and I'm aware of no other legal modern professional sporting).
Claim 2: Conditions
The article states: "The conditions under which racing greyhounds are kept are considered by some people to be inhumane."
As someone with a companion Greyhound I would like to say that I believe the care many of the Greyhounds I have met was inhumane (prior to being picked up by adoption groups). The deaths of large numbers of dogs due to basic lack of medical care is well documented. While some people feel the treatment is acceptable, others feel it is inhumane therefore the statement is accurate. I'm not clear here what is at dispute. I think a longer discussion of treatment is more appropriate in the article on Greyhound racing, and indeed there is more there.
Claim 3: Killings
The article states: "In the late 20th century, many Greyhound adoption groups began taking Greyhounds from the racetracks when they could not compete and placing them in adoptive homes. Before this, most retired Greyhounds were killed(disputed — see talk page); some still are."
Again this is well documented. I'm not clear what is disputed about this statement. Only one US state requires that all racing dogs be adopted, all others allow for the euthenization of the animals and conditions are worse outside the US. If someone would like to propose alternative language, that may be proper, but it seems to me that the current statement is accurate.
If other users would like to propose alternative wordings to these statements I would see that as a part of the wikipedia writing process, but simply removing them would (in my opinion) remove important information.
-- Ahc 14:22, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I can't see much dubious about these sentences. They may be somewhat offensive, but only in their content. They are definitely a fair description of reality, so they should stay. MasterDirk 12:36, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The comments highlighted as 'dubious' are tendentious and the writer’s opinions should not be so near the surface in a Wikipedia entry. There are other forums for opinions.
The point is that the entry for ‘greyhound’ is almost wholly from the perspective of the dog lover/rescuer perspective. Admirable in itself, but not right for a Wikipedia entry. It is apparently OK to use a loaded remark like "The conditions under which racing greyhounds are kept are considered by some people to be inhumane." And justify its inclusion by saying, essentially, that it’s true that some people believe the statement, so it can be included in the entry. But you might equally say: "It is some people’s opinion that President Bush is a religious zealot with the IQ of an amoeba." The statement itself is so loaded that it is obvious that the writer is using it as a ‘no comeback’ way of putting forward their world view. In a small way that’s what’s happening here. And Wikipedia shouldn’t be hijacked anywhere to put forward the narrow views of special interest groups.
O.K., so maybe I'm way off base here, but which Greyhound do you feel is the most well-known in the world? Which Greyhound exemplifies all the more positive aspects of this breed? Which Greyhound has his fame rooted in his original owner repudiating and ostricizing him as a racing dog who was well past his prime and irresponsibly turning him loose on the streets to live or die as fate chose? There is only one Greyhound I know of that meets all these criteria and more.
Unfortunately, he is also a fictional cartoon. Still, as a pop culture icon that exemplifies many of the points made in the article, wouldn't Santa's Little Helper be ideal to include as a broad socially notable example of the breed and their characteristics? Weaponofmassinstruction 04:44, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Valid points all. I'll get back to you with international syndication data.... once I find some. (Sure would be nice if they were in the Wikipedia) Weaponofmassinstruction 04:57, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
According to Internet Movie Database, the Simpsons is translated into 12 languages other than English: Spanish, Albanian, French, Japanese, German, Russian, Hindi, Swahili, Swedish, Turkish, Cantonese, and Mandarin.
Additionally, the same source lists Rating Certifications in 9 Countries outside the North American Continent (for a total of 12 when you include The United States, Canada, and Mexico): Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Singapore, Spain, and The United Kingdom. This of course precludes any country which does not have/use Rating Certifications, though I cannot see any rationale for translating to Russian for the Brazilian market.
I would think this qualifies as fairly International recognition, provided that the IMDB hasn't mucked it up and missed any. Weaponofmassinstruction 06:23, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
User:Ahc has indicated that Santa's Little Helpers' stomach problems were probably bloat. From what I can recall, the animated character Dr. Hibbert diagnosed this problem as either "twisted bowel" or "twisted stomach". Since I haven't confirmed that either of these two terms are actual Veteranary or Medical terms, I left them out. Anyone feel like clarifying this? Weaponofmassinstruction 18:17, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't bother me in the least... I was just kinda hoping to have the whole "probably" bit clarified with something a bit more definite. I've got some time on my hands, I'll cruise the rest of the net for more info to verify just what to call it. Weaponofmassinstruction 03:11, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I believe that the greyhound definition is totally misleading, because untrue. Greyhounds are not bred to run, they are not bred to be exploited. I demand a change. 158.148.92.144 ( talk) 23:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC). I believe that the greyhound definition is totally misleading, because untrue. Greyhounds are not bred to run, they are not bred to be exploited. I demand a change. It needs to be specified that the racing industry is not doing them any good. This is an objective view. 158.148.92.144 ( talk) 23:57, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
The article is about the greyhound and not greyhound racing. Various other greyhound racing pages are well documented and referenced. Your comment is not an objective view because the term objective means 'not influenced by an individual's personal viewpoint'. If you have neutral comments with well referenced citations then feel free to add them to the relevant article page. ApricotFoot ( talk) 11:00, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Greyhound article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 360 days
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This page has archives. Sections older than 360 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Since someone marked three statements in the article as disputed, but didn't bother to explain why I'm tempted to remove the disputed claims. However that seems inapproprieate here, so I'll provide my arguements for supporting the current statements.
Claim 1: racing
The article states: "Changes in public opinion regarding blood sport has essentially removed the Greyhound from hunting and relegated the breed to parimutuel stakes racing."
In a section about Greyhounds in racing, it seems like this is about right. One might suggest that the section should be renamed to be something like "Greyhounds as working animals" or "Greyhounds in Sport" and more detail about other work they perform might be suggested (vet research is about the only other "work" I'm aware of modern Greyhounds doing, and I'm aware of no other legal modern professional sporting).
Claim 2: Conditions
The article states: "The conditions under which racing greyhounds are kept are considered by some people to be inhumane."
As someone with a companion Greyhound I would like to say that I believe the care many of the Greyhounds I have met was inhumane (prior to being picked up by adoption groups). The deaths of large numbers of dogs due to basic lack of medical care is well documented. While some people feel the treatment is acceptable, others feel it is inhumane therefore the statement is accurate. I'm not clear here what is at dispute. I think a longer discussion of treatment is more appropriate in the article on Greyhound racing, and indeed there is more there.
Claim 3: Killings
The article states: "In the late 20th century, many Greyhound adoption groups began taking Greyhounds from the racetracks when they could not compete and placing them in adoptive homes. Before this, most retired Greyhounds were killed(disputed — see talk page); some still are."
Again this is well documented. I'm not clear what is disputed about this statement. Only one US state requires that all racing dogs be adopted, all others allow for the euthenization of the animals and conditions are worse outside the US. If someone would like to propose alternative language, that may be proper, but it seems to me that the current statement is accurate.
If other users would like to propose alternative wordings to these statements I would see that as a part of the wikipedia writing process, but simply removing them would (in my opinion) remove important information.
-- Ahc 14:22, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I can't see much dubious about these sentences. They may be somewhat offensive, but only in their content. They are definitely a fair description of reality, so they should stay. MasterDirk 12:36, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The comments highlighted as 'dubious' are tendentious and the writer’s opinions should not be so near the surface in a Wikipedia entry. There are other forums for opinions.
The point is that the entry for ‘greyhound’ is almost wholly from the perspective of the dog lover/rescuer perspective. Admirable in itself, but not right for a Wikipedia entry. It is apparently OK to use a loaded remark like "The conditions under which racing greyhounds are kept are considered by some people to be inhumane." And justify its inclusion by saying, essentially, that it’s true that some people believe the statement, so it can be included in the entry. But you might equally say: "It is some people’s opinion that President Bush is a religious zealot with the IQ of an amoeba." The statement itself is so loaded that it is obvious that the writer is using it as a ‘no comeback’ way of putting forward their world view. In a small way that’s what’s happening here. And Wikipedia shouldn’t be hijacked anywhere to put forward the narrow views of special interest groups.
O.K., so maybe I'm way off base here, but which Greyhound do you feel is the most well-known in the world? Which Greyhound exemplifies all the more positive aspects of this breed? Which Greyhound has his fame rooted in his original owner repudiating and ostricizing him as a racing dog who was well past his prime and irresponsibly turning him loose on the streets to live or die as fate chose? There is only one Greyhound I know of that meets all these criteria and more.
Unfortunately, he is also a fictional cartoon. Still, as a pop culture icon that exemplifies many of the points made in the article, wouldn't Santa's Little Helper be ideal to include as a broad socially notable example of the breed and their characteristics? Weaponofmassinstruction 04:44, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Valid points all. I'll get back to you with international syndication data.... once I find some. (Sure would be nice if they were in the Wikipedia) Weaponofmassinstruction 04:57, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
According to Internet Movie Database, the Simpsons is translated into 12 languages other than English: Spanish, Albanian, French, Japanese, German, Russian, Hindi, Swahili, Swedish, Turkish, Cantonese, and Mandarin.
Additionally, the same source lists Rating Certifications in 9 Countries outside the North American Continent (for a total of 12 when you include The United States, Canada, and Mexico): Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Singapore, Spain, and The United Kingdom. This of course precludes any country which does not have/use Rating Certifications, though I cannot see any rationale for translating to Russian for the Brazilian market.
I would think this qualifies as fairly International recognition, provided that the IMDB hasn't mucked it up and missed any. Weaponofmassinstruction 06:23, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
User:Ahc has indicated that Santa's Little Helpers' stomach problems were probably bloat. From what I can recall, the animated character Dr. Hibbert diagnosed this problem as either "twisted bowel" or "twisted stomach". Since I haven't confirmed that either of these two terms are actual Veteranary or Medical terms, I left them out. Anyone feel like clarifying this? Weaponofmassinstruction 18:17, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't bother me in the least... I was just kinda hoping to have the whole "probably" bit clarified with something a bit more definite. I've got some time on my hands, I'll cruise the rest of the net for more info to verify just what to call it. Weaponofmassinstruction 03:11, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I believe that the greyhound definition is totally misleading, because untrue. Greyhounds are not bred to run, they are not bred to be exploited. I demand a change. 158.148.92.144 ( talk) 23:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC). I believe that the greyhound definition is totally misleading, because untrue. Greyhounds are not bred to run, they are not bred to be exploited. I demand a change. It needs to be specified that the racing industry is not doing them any good. This is an objective view. 158.148.92.144 ( talk) 23:57, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
The article is about the greyhound and not greyhound racing. Various other greyhound racing pages are well documented and referenced. Your comment is not an objective view because the term objective means 'not influenced by an individual's personal viewpoint'. If you have neutral comments with well referenced citations then feel free to add them to the relevant article page. ApricotFoot ( talk) 11:00, 11 February 2022 (UTC)