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This is amusing, but I'm putting it here. Is this spin really relevant?:
Many original verses of "Greensleeves" are posted on the Web. Anyone find anything in them to tie to this interpretation? For more a propos avenues to follow try the new External link at the entry. Or a note on separate sleeves worn in the 16th century with a bodice... __ Wetman 09:48, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What does greensleeves mean or refer to? is the above correct?? 71.77.207.50 06:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
"The name Greensleeves most likely refers to a prostitute or a lover, since in Renaissance England, green sleeves were worn by prostitute women as a sign of their status."
From this site http://yunyun09.wordpress.com/new-greensleeves-new/
The sleeves were removable for quick undressing, so I read. England used green to identify prostitutes, Nero required prostitutes to have blonde hair. In China they painted brothels blue. Russia it was yellow on their ID cards. Red was also a common symbol for prostitution, red-light district and lady in red.
My Lady Greensleeves" as depicted in an 1864 painting by Dante Gabriel Rossetti.
If it is true is another thing. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
198.189.224.92 (
talk)
22:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Alfredooscarfernandez 22:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)== Loreena McKennit version... ==
Akashic records show Sir Francis Bacon as composer of Greensleeves, the tune used as Colombe (vestal) march in temple ceremonies. Published at age 19. The writer of Shakespeares' plays, he has a reputation of being a shadow writer. If it was written by Henry VIII then why did it take almost 40 years after his death to appear?
I have a Loreena McKennit version of the song Greensleeves, and its lyrics are a bit different, with chorus as follows:
"Greensleeves was my delight, "Greensleeves my heart of gold "Greensleeves was my heart of joy "And who but my lady Greensleeves."
and she adds another part:
"Thy petticoat of sendle white
"With gold embroidered gorgeously;
"Thy petticoat of silk and white
"And these I bought gladly. "
I recognise the first verse (with a small change to the third line "For I have loved you so long") and the chorus printed in the encyclopedia, but not the rest. I remember seeing a version of Greensleeves many years ago which contained the verse:
"Thy gown was wrought in grassy green, The sleeves of satin hanging by, Which made thee be a harvest Queen, And yet thou wouldst not love me'
I also remember a snippet of a verse containing the lines:-
"With pearls bedecked so sumptuously, The like no other lasses had, And yet thou wouldst not love me.'
Does anyone else know these ?
There is a recopilation of Greensleeves verses by Lindianne Sarno that includes these. You can find them in the link http://music-garden.net/lecture.html
Alfredooscarfernandez 22:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Anyone know any mp3 links for this song? Dermo69
I have over 30 versions of Greensleeves (most of them are guitar or harp versions, sans lyrics) and supoose I could send any of them. It is my first contack with Wikipedia and don't know how to contact you. Perhaps, as the precedent user proposes, by an e-mail account. User alfredooscarfernandez Alfredooscarfernandez 01:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Greensleeves was also, I think, the soundtrack of the half-hour TV serial film "Lassie", the famous collie dog, in the latest ' 50 and earliest ' 60. Thanks. A. Lahore
Surely someone has some *real* idea about what this word is referring too? In any case, this entry without such a definition would appear to be rather incomplete.
For instance (and I have no references for this at all), I have heard the theory that the song refers to a gentleman's poor country mistress who works on her farm feeding the cows, etc, hence her green sleeves (from the grass she gathers for the animals). Surely wrong, but why can't we know what is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.147.151.165 ( talk) 23:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC).
It is said that in England prostitutes were required to wear green. The sleeves were removable for easy undressing. Lady Greensleevs was probally a prostitute but some say she might have been a mistress or concubine.
In other countries prostitutes were also “labeled” with a color, In China the brothels were painted blue. In old Rome prostitutes were required to have bleached blond hair. Red-light district and lady in red is a symbol for prostitution in many countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.224.92 ( talk) 22:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Why did Bill Graham decide to play Greensleeves after every concert at the Fillmore? And furthermore, why did Neil Young do the same, and what connection, if any, is known? 71.132.202.29 ( talk) 04:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
The legend that Henry VIII wrote this tune is frequently repeated but there's absolutely no evidence that it is true, and there's some evidence that the song is not old enough to have been written by Henry. We should not repeat the legend without noting this. Greg 20:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Distinguishing between composition and writing is not semantics. Moreover the statement 'based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death' is very misleading, considering Henry personally had extensive dealings with Italian ambassadors in court who were well known for bringing traveling musicians. I've added "likely did not compose", as flatly saying he did not is foolish considering neither side has any concrete or even particularly solid evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 01:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
A literary source does not make your case for you. Both sides are entirely subjective, and even your own quote uses the word "Probably". I have provided a perfectly valid explanation as to how King Henry of all people, due to his well known musical skills as well as his dealings with various Italian musicians could have easily composed the song. Furthermore music is innovative, even without Italian influence Henry could have composed it originally. There is no "literary source" needed for you to use common sense, and if you continue in your arrogant way then God help yhour soul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a Wiki page on Francis Cutting, where it confidently states that he was the composer, as does Frederic Noad in his Renaissance Guitar Anthology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.192.248 ( talk) 08:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
The legend that Henry VIII wrote this tune is frequently repeated but there's absolutely no evidence that it is true, and there's some evidence that the song is not old enough to have been written by Henry. We should not repeat the legend without noting this. Greg 20:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Distinguishing between composition and writing is not semantics. Moreover the statement 'based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death' is very misleading, considering Henry personally had extensive dealings with Italian ambassadors in court who were well known for bringing traveling musicians. I've added "likely did not compose", as flatly saying he did not is foolish considering neither side has any concrete or even particularly solid evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 01:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
A literary source does not make your case for you. Both sides are entirely subjective, and even your own quote uses the word "Probably". I have provided a perfectly valid explanation as to how King Henry of all people, due to his well known musical skills as well as his dealings with various Italian musicians could have easily composed the song. Furthermore music is innovative, even without Italian influence Henry could have composed it originally. There is no "literary source" needed for you to use common sense, and if you continue in your arrogant way then God help yhour soul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a Wiki page on Francis Cutting, where it confidently states that he was the composer, as does Frederic Noad in his Renaissance Guitar Anthology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.192.248 ( talk) 08:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Just wanted to ask... who decided Green Sleeves was composed in a style that Henry VIII wouldn't have been accustomed to? I see the opinion of one Historian cited. Not sure that counts as incontrovertible fact which should be stated as bluntly as it has been. The only certainties are that the song, words & tune, "were written and have been attributed to Henry VIII, although this claim is disputed...".
Since neither case can be proved, if you're going to include a source for the opposition, then at least one source of support should also be included. It certainly shouldn't be cited as a "persistent belief", which reads in a very condescending and derogatory way. I shall make such ammendments within a week, unless there are valid reasons why I shouldn't.
I also think it worth noting in the Origins section, that those names resgistering versions of the ballad with the Stationers Company, are members of said company (a guild) who own printing presses and are paying a fee for a licence, which includes a monopoly, to print copies. It's the origin of the term Copyright, the right to make copies... There is no claim to authorship of the ballads; Richard Jones, Edward White, Henry Carr are noted Elizabethan printers/booksellers, the only exception being William Elderton who is a noted Elizabethan Actor & Ballad Writer. Even then, there are misattributions/misreadings of the source material, which I shall edit.
It's also worth noting that the various ballads were written to the 'original' tune, and that the tune itself may have been modified over time to suit contemporary tastes e.g. "A New Courtly Sonnet of the Lady Green Sleeves. To the new tune of Green Sleeves".
Again, I shall make some minor, supportable, changes here unless there are good reasons not to. Storris ( talk) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. I wonder why this song is used in the public examinations in Hong Kong (or in other places as well?) during listening tests. Is there a special reason for that? Perhaps we can write a bit about it in the article. LR4087 06:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
"The Singing Waites of England"... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.150.122.122 ( talk) 01:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC).
I think the list of people who have re-recorded greensleeves should be checked, a couple of them im sure have not. Enya for one.
I would like to add that John Coltrane's rendition be among those that deserve mention. His appears on the Africa/Brass LP and subsequent re-releases of that album Armadillo01 02:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
On episode nine of the Showtime cable series, King Henry (Jonathan Rhys-Meyers) is shown composing Greensleeves while pining away for Anne Boleyn. Interesting take on the fabled but unproven folklore...
Dwacon 01:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Unsurprising, given that 'The Tudors' has interesting takes on accepted history. :)
Some years ago I read there was a verse which was said to have been written by Robbie Burns
I recall it as being "I'll be with her or she be thine My fiddle and I t'gither"
but I haven't found anything recently. How come there is no link (or copy) of verses? DDB 13:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Is this section really necessary? It comes off as trivia - personally I think the page would be better without it. David T Tokyo 12:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I think we've reached that point now. There's no question that it's a page with two very distinct halves. As people seem to enjoy listing the other versions, my suggestion is that we create a new page where they can be included. We can cross reference the two pages so that they link to each other. Thoughts? David T Tokyo ( talk) 06:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Got the suggestion to insert this image - so the play-button and the notes can build a unit. But I not really want to make changes in the article. Might someone who knows more about Greensleeves and music do that. -- 80.128.197.114 ( talk) 17:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
The article states that Greensleeves is in Dorian, and often incorrectly played as natural minor. While this point is understandable - it's easy to mistakenly use a minor sixth in place of the major sixth, and that would be the mistake suggested here, the major seventh in the piece is VERY apparent and establishes the melody as melodic minor (raised sixth and seventh ascendant as compared to natural minor) rather than Dorian (raised sixth and minor seventh). I'm frankly too lazy to find a source for a simple exercise of very basic theory, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.31.146.146 ( talk) 03:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
In the version of Greensleeves I learned at school 60 years ago, the raised seventh (F sharp in the notated example) only occurred at the cadences in the 7th and 15th bars. In the 3rd, 4th, 11th and 12th bars the minor seventh was used (F natural). I would therefore question the notated version and definitely regard the tune as Dorian. At the cadences the F becomes sharpened under the normal rules of musica ficta that operated in the 16th century, and this would not change its modal character.
Indeed, even if the notated version is correct, the tune would still be more Dorian than anything else. By this time the modes were breaking down, and the irregular sharpening of the 7th was one of the ways in which they were doing so. Pitting flattened against sharpened sevenths was something English composers were particularly fond of. The piece would therefore be Dorian with an occasionally sharpened 7th.
In any case, Greensleeves cannot be using the normal melodic minor. The melodic minor has raised 6th and 7th ascending, lowered 7th and 6th descending, so if the tune were using the melodic minor the 6th would only be raised if it were proceeding upwards to the 7th. In fact the 6th is raised throughout the whole tune, even when it is descending - indeed, apart from just before the cadences, the 6th descends to the 5th every time it is used, including very prominently in the 9th and 13th bars. The fact that the tune still uses the raised 6th in these cases means it cannot be using the normal melodic minor.
I would therefore say that, with regard to the mode, the article is correct in all respects. I would also query the source of the notated version. Brumel ( talk) 16:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Hm. How very confusing. The article has apparently been modified 06:38, 7 July 2008 (68.29.221.171) to say "Greensleeves is in melodic minor, though modern musicians sometimes incorrectly play it in the natural minor scale instead" instead of stating Dorian mode was correct and natural minor incorrect. I'm sorry I don't understand all of the conversation above - muscial terminology in a foreign language and all that - but were there actually grounds for this modification, then? Shadowcrow ( talk) 20:21, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
As well as agreeing that all the sixths should be major (as in the GIF above), and that the major sevenths (F sharps) in bars 3,4,11 and 12 should be minor sevenths (F naturals), I'd also like to point out that even if they were left as major sevenths the piece still has minor sevenths descending to major sixths in bars 9 and 13. Although the feel of those bars (don't know the technical term) is Ionian one step lower (F major), as the piece is in G I don't see how it can be interpreted as anything other than predominantly Dorian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.122.152 ( talk) 16:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it is a question of which melody is correct and incorrect, as there are multiple versions of the melody. Melodic minor would work fine, though the example given is not in melodic minor. The real question is how was the original melody written, which since the song is so old, probably can't be answered. It would be helpful to the article to show a few differing versions of the melody from reliable publications. I would argue that the melody given is not likely, due to the relatively quick change from F natural to F# in the chorus. The Benjamin Britten arrangement is the same, except it does not go to F# in the chorus until the cadence. I have also heard the melody in harmonic minor, with a minor 6th and major 7th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.193.167 ( talk) 15:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
My internet won't let me listen to the song, so does anyone know a link I could go to in order to listen to it? Allismera ( talk) 01:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Youtube :-) 82.168.48.122 ( talk) 12:58, 15 March 2013 (UTC)dd
"Greensleeves is in melodic minor, though modern musicians sometimes incorrectly play it in the natural minor scale instead"
Both links got to the same page (via redirects), so this statement essentially means nothing to the reader (like me) who wants to know what the difference is. I would recommend striking the section and line, unless the links at least go to separate sections of minor scale, or, even better, explain what they are saying here in the article.
The version I know breaks out of the simple whole letter minor scale anyway, in the last "line" of the melody (It uses a C# and a D#). Perhaps it would be better to simply transcribe the melody here, since it's, er, out of copyright by now? Huw Powell ( talk) 06:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Isn't it misleading to simply say that '"Greensleeves" is in Dorian mode' when there is the whole issue of those natural 7's? Isn't that worth mentioning even though musicologists understand it's within the bounds of musica ficta of that time period and doesn't contradict Dorian? There has got to be a simple way to state this without getting overly complex, such as "The melody was originally entirely Dorian mode, sometimes with natural 7ths in some portions. Some modern versions use the natural minor scale predominantly with some natural 6ths and natural 7ths in parallel portions." That would seem to clarify, highlighting those "points of contention" while avoiding the "melodic minor" confusion. Perhaps some musical scores could be presented and bar numbers could be specified.
Interestingly enough, the Dorian audio example never departs to the natural 7 at all, and the natural minor example departs to the natural 6 and 7. Btonal ( talk) 00:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)Btonal
In the pop culture section, both Pepper Ann and As Told By Ginger are mentioned. If these tv shows actually include the song, which they very well may, they should at least include the name of the episode and/or context in which the song is played. There is absolutely no references here. Redland19 ( talk) 14:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
Another movie in which Greensleeves can be heard is briefly in The Secret Garden (
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108071/ ). The Cook in the kitchen is singing it as Mary passes by to go outside to play.
In the TV series Lost in Space Will Robinson sings Greensleeves while strumming a guitar as the Robinson family sit around a campfire at night. Season 1 episode 4 "There Were Giants In The Earth" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiyou uk ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
"Recordings" fails to list the Beatles' "All You Need Is Love," as incorporating "Greensleeves" into the song's stucture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.60.22.6 ( talk) 14:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
The article mentions that there are other sets of lyrics, but does not include or link to them, nor does it give the provenance of the existing lyrics (are they thought to be the original or oldest known lyrics, etc.). -- Iritscen ( talk) 01:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The currently included media file (greensleeves.ogg) lacks the characteristic Dorian sixths and has minor sixths instead. A correct sample, greensleeves.mid, is available at Wikimedia Commons. I suggest to use the latter or, better perhaps, include both so the reader/listener can hear the difference between the original and the "flattened" version. Wielewaal ( talk) 00:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Exactly what I was coming to the talk page to say. I think I'll record two new files (when I find an ogg encoder) and put them both on the article, one in dorian, and one in minor Veggieburgerfish ( talk) 19:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Why is Greensleeves considered a holiday song? It has nothing to do with Christmas/Winter/New Year, but yet it almost never appears outside of season. Theories? Antagonist ( talk) 00:54, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
As far as I am aware, it's only considered a Christmas song in the USA. It is a love song, and in its country of origin it is considered as such. As an Englishman, I was surprised to find this out whilst playing it on a classical guitar in London. An American girl came up to me and asked why I was playing a "Christmas song" in June! However, true to its origins, the song inspired romance that day :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.183.201 ( talk) 00:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't know anything about the history of "Greensleeves" but it is the standard song that ice cream vans use in england and australia. i'm pretty sure they have been using it since i was a child although im only 28. I think this explains the idea that it is a holiday song since the ice cream truck music is so repeatedly heard during the summer vacation period and ice creams are associated with holidays and are a treasured part of summer, at least for children.
Yeah i just edited my paragraph to include "England" after i surfed a few discussions about the ice cream truck. There are some interesting choices of songs that ice cream trucks play around the world but so far as ive discovered "Greensleeves" seems to be the norm for England and Australia. I'd love to know how far back that goes.
Should it be mentioned that this song is sometimes played by the icecream truck in GTA IV? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.75.114.143 ( talk) 23:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
In the German Wikipedia there is sheet music ( http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Datei:Greensleeves.gif&filetimestamp=20080925054310 ) embedded in the article, wouldn't that make sense for this version, too? 85.22.22.40 ( talk) 16:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I suggest adding McCoy Tyner's recording to the list (I would but the article is protected). It was released on his 2008 album Guitars and features Derek Trucks on guitar. JLK27 ( talk) 13:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
The song is also featured in the German 1998 Computer Game "Anno 1602" (U.S./Canada title "1602 A.D.")
---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_1602
This recording which was made especially for the game is often regarded as an excellent version due to the accurate use of a classic harp.
This version can currently be heard in this youtube video:
I think it is really worth mentioning as there are no other games mentioned in the article. May this reference be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.189.229.167 ( talk) 23:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I've removed the references to Sir Thomas Wyatt from the section on Henry VIII. As Aliison Weir says the Italian style of composition did not reach England until after his (Henry's) death. As Sir Thomas Wyatt died five years before Henry, he couldn't have introduced it, either. David T Tokyo ( talk) 10:22, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Do we really need more than a couple of samples in this article? I can believe those to illustrate differences in modes, but once we start adding versions in different genres, we are in danger of breaching WP:INDISCRIMINATE and allowing others in. Furthermore, copyrighted performances (as opposed to the song itself) will need fair-use rationales, and the more we have, the less easy is it to justify their presence. I think we should leave it as just the two. Comments welcome. Rodhull andemu 17:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Greensleevs wasn't in "Dick Turpin" (1979- ) What kids'TV series was it in then?
It wasn't Dick Turpin.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf7_xBtgd-c
82.168.48.122 ( talk) 13:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)dd
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From the 4th to 5th note, it is a rise of a whole-tone interval rather than a semitone interval, as the sheet music--which is correct--indicates, but the first sound file plays the 5th note half-tone lower. It seems now the wrong version is more popular than the correct one which sounds different and better. But still, there are correct versions at Youtube, and the following is an example, even though it is played at a different key. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn4hAdSGYEY -- Roland ( talk) 04:13, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
The lede to this article is ridiculously complex, to the point of being obfuscatory. This might pass in a musicological text, but hardly in an excyclopedia article for general consumption. I suggest reducing the opening sentence to:
"Greensleeves is a traditional English folk song and tune, probably written sometime in the 16th century."
I would further delete everything in the opening paragraph down to the final sentence:
"The tune is found in several late-16th-century and early-17th-century sources, such as Ballet's MS Lute Book and Het Luitboek van Thysius, as well as various manuscripts preserved in the Seeley Historical Library in the University of Cambridge."
... and move all the business about "romanesca", "passamezzo antico", and "the Andalusian progression" down to a lower section in the article, perhaps entitled Form or History. 67.206.187.92 ( talk) 06:06, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
This article and most talk page comments refer to lyrics, perhaps many versions. Not a single version given in the article. It's written like everyone reading the article already knows words to this song. Personally, I didn't when I started reading, and still don't. Good job wikipedia. 2600:8807:5480:713:C018:59E9:EF6E:715E ( talk) 18:41, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Greenfleeves. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 14#Greenfleeves until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm ( talk) 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi, just found this, or the version by The Beverley Sisters, on the list of songs banned by the BBC. Fun, but improbable, if it was for reasons of Tudor morality. Is the reason known? T 84.208.65.62 ( talk) 23:51, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
I am moving this paragraph here, so that we can sort this out and be done with it. First of all, I see no reason this needs to be in the lede. It should be rewritten, preferably with a direct quote from Weir's book, which is referenced.
After rewriting, it should be placed somewhere in the main body of the article. --- RepublicanJacobite The'FortyFive' 14:22, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify something: When Alison Weir says that Greensleeves is "probably Elizabethan" in origin, she is not opening up the possibility that it could have been written in Henry VIII's time. The Romamesca form (on which Greensleeves is based) is a style of music that lasted from 1550-1650. It other words, it's earliest date is 3 years after Henry's death. So although Greensleeves is "probably" Elizabethan, there is an outside chance it could have been written in the reign of Edward VI (1547-1553) or Mary (1553-1558) - but not in Henry's reign. David T Tokyo ( talk) 18:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Greg Lindahl, Garik, David T Tokyo, DMacks, Magnoliasouth Since Weir cites Starkey [2] [3] [4] (though the relevant chapter is by Peter Holman) citing Weir doesn't make much sense.
Since Holman says "it is based on an Italian chord progression that became known in England only after his death" [5] whereas the whole p. 154 reference is "But his abilities as a composer have been over-rated: he did not compose ‘Greensleeves’" [6] I've changed the citation so that it's now to p. 104 instead of 154.
There's more detail in the following by Holman: "... ‘Greensleeves’ ( DF, i. 6) is not an original melody but is merely a descant of the Romanesca ground. The original duple-time tune was used for the ballad of ‘Lady Greensleeves’, first published in 1580 (hence the title); the familiar compound-time version seems to have been developed in the middle of the seventeenth century as a country dance tune. Incidentally, the Romanesca did not appear in England until the mid sixteenth century, which makes it unlikely that ‘Greensleeves’ was written by Henry VIII (1491-1547), as is often claimed". [7] Perhaps some of that could be included in the Form section in addition to Origin. Mcljlm ( talk) 05:42, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
References
SpamFritterBitter and David T Tokyo. There are multiple section above this discussing the Henry VIII authorship claims and they seem to come to the conclusion that sources state Henry VIII didn't write Greensleves. If you read the three sources next to the disputed sentence you can see the following:
...though his achievements in that direction have been exaggerated: he did not write 'Greensleeves', ...
Let’s clear one thing up first of all: Henry VIII did not compose ‘Greensleeves’. Italian in form with an Elizabethan text, this is one piece that must be struck from the list of works by this most musical of monarchs.
...nothing to link it to either Henry or Anne, nor to anyone else. Henry VIII died in 1547. Greensleeves first appeared in 1580.
It seems clear, based on sources, that he didn't write Greensleeves and the article should say that. In fact the first two of the sources next to the disputed sentence don't confirm that "It is a common romantic legend that Henry wrote the song for his lover and future queen consort Anne Boleyn." CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 10:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
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This is amusing, but I'm putting it here. Is this spin really relevant?:
Many original verses of "Greensleeves" are posted on the Web. Anyone find anything in them to tie to this interpretation? For more a propos avenues to follow try the new External link at the entry. Or a note on separate sleeves worn in the 16th century with a bodice... __ Wetman 09:48, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What does greensleeves mean or refer to? is the above correct?? 71.77.207.50 06:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
"The name Greensleeves most likely refers to a prostitute or a lover, since in Renaissance England, green sleeves were worn by prostitute women as a sign of their status."
From this site http://yunyun09.wordpress.com/new-greensleeves-new/
The sleeves were removable for quick undressing, so I read. England used green to identify prostitutes, Nero required prostitutes to have blonde hair. In China they painted brothels blue. Russia it was yellow on their ID cards. Red was also a common symbol for prostitution, red-light district and lady in red.
My Lady Greensleeves" as depicted in an 1864 painting by Dante Gabriel Rossetti.
If it is true is another thing. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
198.189.224.92 (
talk)
22:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Alfredooscarfernandez 22:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)== Loreena McKennit version... ==
Akashic records show Sir Francis Bacon as composer of Greensleeves, the tune used as Colombe (vestal) march in temple ceremonies. Published at age 19. The writer of Shakespeares' plays, he has a reputation of being a shadow writer. If it was written by Henry VIII then why did it take almost 40 years after his death to appear?
I have a Loreena McKennit version of the song Greensleeves, and its lyrics are a bit different, with chorus as follows:
"Greensleeves was my delight, "Greensleeves my heart of gold "Greensleeves was my heart of joy "And who but my lady Greensleeves."
and she adds another part:
"Thy petticoat of sendle white
"With gold embroidered gorgeously;
"Thy petticoat of silk and white
"And these I bought gladly. "
I recognise the first verse (with a small change to the third line "For I have loved you so long") and the chorus printed in the encyclopedia, but not the rest. I remember seeing a version of Greensleeves many years ago which contained the verse:
"Thy gown was wrought in grassy green, The sleeves of satin hanging by, Which made thee be a harvest Queen, And yet thou wouldst not love me'
I also remember a snippet of a verse containing the lines:-
"With pearls bedecked so sumptuously, The like no other lasses had, And yet thou wouldst not love me.'
Does anyone else know these ?
There is a recopilation of Greensleeves verses by Lindianne Sarno that includes these. You can find them in the link http://music-garden.net/lecture.html
Alfredooscarfernandez 22:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Anyone know any mp3 links for this song? Dermo69
I have over 30 versions of Greensleeves (most of them are guitar or harp versions, sans lyrics) and supoose I could send any of them. It is my first contack with Wikipedia and don't know how to contact you. Perhaps, as the precedent user proposes, by an e-mail account. User alfredooscarfernandez Alfredooscarfernandez 01:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Greensleeves was also, I think, the soundtrack of the half-hour TV serial film "Lassie", the famous collie dog, in the latest ' 50 and earliest ' 60. Thanks. A. Lahore
Surely someone has some *real* idea about what this word is referring too? In any case, this entry without such a definition would appear to be rather incomplete.
For instance (and I have no references for this at all), I have heard the theory that the song refers to a gentleman's poor country mistress who works on her farm feeding the cows, etc, hence her green sleeves (from the grass she gathers for the animals). Surely wrong, but why can't we know what is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.147.151.165 ( talk) 23:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC).
It is said that in England prostitutes were required to wear green. The sleeves were removable for easy undressing. Lady Greensleevs was probally a prostitute but some say she might have been a mistress or concubine.
In other countries prostitutes were also “labeled” with a color, In China the brothels were painted blue. In old Rome prostitutes were required to have bleached blond hair. Red-light district and lady in red is a symbol for prostitution in many countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.224.92 ( talk) 22:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Why did Bill Graham decide to play Greensleeves after every concert at the Fillmore? And furthermore, why did Neil Young do the same, and what connection, if any, is known? 71.132.202.29 ( talk) 04:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
The legend that Henry VIII wrote this tune is frequently repeated but there's absolutely no evidence that it is true, and there's some evidence that the song is not old enough to have been written by Henry. We should not repeat the legend without noting this. Greg 20:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Distinguishing between composition and writing is not semantics. Moreover the statement 'based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death' is very misleading, considering Henry personally had extensive dealings with Italian ambassadors in court who were well known for bringing traveling musicians. I've added "likely did not compose", as flatly saying he did not is foolish considering neither side has any concrete or even particularly solid evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 01:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
A literary source does not make your case for you. Both sides are entirely subjective, and even your own quote uses the word "Probably". I have provided a perfectly valid explanation as to how King Henry of all people, due to his well known musical skills as well as his dealings with various Italian musicians could have easily composed the song. Furthermore music is innovative, even without Italian influence Henry could have composed it originally. There is no "literary source" needed for you to use common sense, and if you continue in your arrogant way then God help yhour soul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a Wiki page on Francis Cutting, where it confidently states that he was the composer, as does Frederic Noad in his Renaissance Guitar Anthology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.192.248 ( talk) 08:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
The legend that Henry VIII wrote this tune is frequently repeated but there's absolutely no evidence that it is true, and there's some evidence that the song is not old enough to have been written by Henry. We should not repeat the legend without noting this. Greg 20:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Distinguishing between composition and writing is not semantics. Moreover the statement 'based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death' is very misleading, considering Henry personally had extensive dealings with Italian ambassadors in court who were well known for bringing traveling musicians. I've added "likely did not compose", as flatly saying he did not is foolish considering neither side has any concrete or even particularly solid evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 01:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
A literary source does not make your case for you. Both sides are entirely subjective, and even your own quote uses the word "Probably". I have provided a perfectly valid explanation as to how King Henry of all people, due to his well known musical skills as well as his dealings with various Italian musicians could have easily composed the song. Furthermore music is innovative, even without Italian influence Henry could have composed it originally. There is no "literary source" needed for you to use common sense, and if you continue in your arrogant way then God help yhour soul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerokrist ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a Wiki page on Francis Cutting, where it confidently states that he was the composer, as does Frederic Noad in his Renaissance Guitar Anthology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.192.248 ( talk) 08:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Just wanted to ask... who decided Green Sleeves was composed in a style that Henry VIII wouldn't have been accustomed to? I see the opinion of one Historian cited. Not sure that counts as incontrovertible fact which should be stated as bluntly as it has been. The only certainties are that the song, words & tune, "were written and have been attributed to Henry VIII, although this claim is disputed...".
Since neither case can be proved, if you're going to include a source for the opposition, then at least one source of support should also be included. It certainly shouldn't be cited as a "persistent belief", which reads in a very condescending and derogatory way. I shall make such ammendments within a week, unless there are valid reasons why I shouldn't.
I also think it worth noting in the Origins section, that those names resgistering versions of the ballad with the Stationers Company, are members of said company (a guild) who own printing presses and are paying a fee for a licence, which includes a monopoly, to print copies. It's the origin of the term Copyright, the right to make copies... There is no claim to authorship of the ballads; Richard Jones, Edward White, Henry Carr are noted Elizabethan printers/booksellers, the only exception being William Elderton who is a noted Elizabethan Actor & Ballad Writer. Even then, there are misattributions/misreadings of the source material, which I shall edit.
It's also worth noting that the various ballads were written to the 'original' tune, and that the tune itself may have been modified over time to suit contemporary tastes e.g. "A New Courtly Sonnet of the Lady Green Sleeves. To the new tune of Green Sleeves".
Again, I shall make some minor, supportable, changes here unless there are good reasons not to. Storris ( talk) 16:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. I wonder why this song is used in the public examinations in Hong Kong (or in other places as well?) during listening tests. Is there a special reason for that? Perhaps we can write a bit about it in the article. LR4087 06:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
"The Singing Waites of England"... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.150.122.122 ( talk) 01:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC).
I think the list of people who have re-recorded greensleeves should be checked, a couple of them im sure have not. Enya for one.
I would like to add that John Coltrane's rendition be among those that deserve mention. His appears on the Africa/Brass LP and subsequent re-releases of that album Armadillo01 02:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
On episode nine of the Showtime cable series, King Henry (Jonathan Rhys-Meyers) is shown composing Greensleeves while pining away for Anne Boleyn. Interesting take on the fabled but unproven folklore...
Dwacon 01:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Unsurprising, given that 'The Tudors' has interesting takes on accepted history. :)
Some years ago I read there was a verse which was said to have been written by Robbie Burns
I recall it as being "I'll be with her or she be thine My fiddle and I t'gither"
but I haven't found anything recently. How come there is no link (or copy) of verses? DDB 13:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Is this section really necessary? It comes off as trivia - personally I think the page would be better without it. David T Tokyo 12:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I think we've reached that point now. There's no question that it's a page with two very distinct halves. As people seem to enjoy listing the other versions, my suggestion is that we create a new page where they can be included. We can cross reference the two pages so that they link to each other. Thoughts? David T Tokyo ( talk) 06:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Got the suggestion to insert this image - so the play-button and the notes can build a unit. But I not really want to make changes in the article. Might someone who knows more about Greensleeves and music do that. -- 80.128.197.114 ( talk) 17:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
The article states that Greensleeves is in Dorian, and often incorrectly played as natural minor. While this point is understandable - it's easy to mistakenly use a minor sixth in place of the major sixth, and that would be the mistake suggested here, the major seventh in the piece is VERY apparent and establishes the melody as melodic minor (raised sixth and seventh ascendant as compared to natural minor) rather than Dorian (raised sixth and minor seventh). I'm frankly too lazy to find a source for a simple exercise of very basic theory, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.31.146.146 ( talk) 03:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
In the version of Greensleeves I learned at school 60 years ago, the raised seventh (F sharp in the notated example) only occurred at the cadences in the 7th and 15th bars. In the 3rd, 4th, 11th and 12th bars the minor seventh was used (F natural). I would therefore question the notated version and definitely regard the tune as Dorian. At the cadences the F becomes sharpened under the normal rules of musica ficta that operated in the 16th century, and this would not change its modal character.
Indeed, even if the notated version is correct, the tune would still be more Dorian than anything else. By this time the modes were breaking down, and the irregular sharpening of the 7th was one of the ways in which they were doing so. Pitting flattened against sharpened sevenths was something English composers were particularly fond of. The piece would therefore be Dorian with an occasionally sharpened 7th.
In any case, Greensleeves cannot be using the normal melodic minor. The melodic minor has raised 6th and 7th ascending, lowered 7th and 6th descending, so if the tune were using the melodic minor the 6th would only be raised if it were proceeding upwards to the 7th. In fact the 6th is raised throughout the whole tune, even when it is descending - indeed, apart from just before the cadences, the 6th descends to the 5th every time it is used, including very prominently in the 9th and 13th bars. The fact that the tune still uses the raised 6th in these cases means it cannot be using the normal melodic minor.
I would therefore say that, with regard to the mode, the article is correct in all respects. I would also query the source of the notated version. Brumel ( talk) 16:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Hm. How very confusing. The article has apparently been modified 06:38, 7 July 2008 (68.29.221.171) to say "Greensleeves is in melodic minor, though modern musicians sometimes incorrectly play it in the natural minor scale instead" instead of stating Dorian mode was correct and natural minor incorrect. I'm sorry I don't understand all of the conversation above - muscial terminology in a foreign language and all that - but were there actually grounds for this modification, then? Shadowcrow ( talk) 20:21, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
As well as agreeing that all the sixths should be major (as in the GIF above), and that the major sevenths (F sharps) in bars 3,4,11 and 12 should be minor sevenths (F naturals), I'd also like to point out that even if they were left as major sevenths the piece still has minor sevenths descending to major sixths in bars 9 and 13. Although the feel of those bars (don't know the technical term) is Ionian one step lower (F major), as the piece is in G I don't see how it can be interpreted as anything other than predominantly Dorian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.122.152 ( talk) 16:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it is a question of which melody is correct and incorrect, as there are multiple versions of the melody. Melodic minor would work fine, though the example given is not in melodic minor. The real question is how was the original melody written, which since the song is so old, probably can't be answered. It would be helpful to the article to show a few differing versions of the melody from reliable publications. I would argue that the melody given is not likely, due to the relatively quick change from F natural to F# in the chorus. The Benjamin Britten arrangement is the same, except it does not go to F# in the chorus until the cadence. I have also heard the melody in harmonic minor, with a minor 6th and major 7th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.193.167 ( talk) 15:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
My internet won't let me listen to the song, so does anyone know a link I could go to in order to listen to it? Allismera ( talk) 01:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Youtube :-) 82.168.48.122 ( talk) 12:58, 15 March 2013 (UTC)dd
"Greensleeves is in melodic minor, though modern musicians sometimes incorrectly play it in the natural minor scale instead"
Both links got to the same page (via redirects), so this statement essentially means nothing to the reader (like me) who wants to know what the difference is. I would recommend striking the section and line, unless the links at least go to separate sections of minor scale, or, even better, explain what they are saying here in the article.
The version I know breaks out of the simple whole letter minor scale anyway, in the last "line" of the melody (It uses a C# and a D#). Perhaps it would be better to simply transcribe the melody here, since it's, er, out of copyright by now? Huw Powell ( talk) 06:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Isn't it misleading to simply say that '"Greensleeves" is in Dorian mode' when there is the whole issue of those natural 7's? Isn't that worth mentioning even though musicologists understand it's within the bounds of musica ficta of that time period and doesn't contradict Dorian? There has got to be a simple way to state this without getting overly complex, such as "The melody was originally entirely Dorian mode, sometimes with natural 7ths in some portions. Some modern versions use the natural minor scale predominantly with some natural 6ths and natural 7ths in parallel portions." That would seem to clarify, highlighting those "points of contention" while avoiding the "melodic minor" confusion. Perhaps some musical scores could be presented and bar numbers could be specified.
Interestingly enough, the Dorian audio example never departs to the natural 7 at all, and the natural minor example departs to the natural 6 and 7. Btonal ( talk) 00:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)Btonal
In the pop culture section, both Pepper Ann and As Told By Ginger are mentioned. If these tv shows actually include the song, which they very well may, they should at least include the name of the episode and/or context in which the song is played. There is absolutely no references here. Redland19 ( talk) 14:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
Another movie in which Greensleeves can be heard is briefly in The Secret Garden (
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108071/ ). The Cook in the kitchen is singing it as Mary passes by to go outside to play.
In the TV series Lost in Space Will Robinson sings Greensleeves while strumming a guitar as the Robinson family sit around a campfire at night. Season 1 episode 4 "There Were Giants In The Earth" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiyou uk ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
"Recordings" fails to list the Beatles' "All You Need Is Love," as incorporating "Greensleeves" into the song's stucture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.60.22.6 ( talk) 14:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
The article mentions that there are other sets of lyrics, but does not include or link to them, nor does it give the provenance of the existing lyrics (are they thought to be the original or oldest known lyrics, etc.). -- Iritscen ( talk) 01:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The currently included media file (greensleeves.ogg) lacks the characteristic Dorian sixths and has minor sixths instead. A correct sample, greensleeves.mid, is available at Wikimedia Commons. I suggest to use the latter or, better perhaps, include both so the reader/listener can hear the difference between the original and the "flattened" version. Wielewaal ( talk) 00:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Exactly what I was coming to the talk page to say. I think I'll record two new files (when I find an ogg encoder) and put them both on the article, one in dorian, and one in minor Veggieburgerfish ( talk) 19:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Why is Greensleeves considered a holiday song? It has nothing to do with Christmas/Winter/New Year, but yet it almost never appears outside of season. Theories? Antagonist ( talk) 00:54, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
As far as I am aware, it's only considered a Christmas song in the USA. It is a love song, and in its country of origin it is considered as such. As an Englishman, I was surprised to find this out whilst playing it on a classical guitar in London. An American girl came up to me and asked why I was playing a "Christmas song" in June! However, true to its origins, the song inspired romance that day :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.183.201 ( talk) 00:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't know anything about the history of "Greensleeves" but it is the standard song that ice cream vans use in england and australia. i'm pretty sure they have been using it since i was a child although im only 28. I think this explains the idea that it is a holiday song since the ice cream truck music is so repeatedly heard during the summer vacation period and ice creams are associated with holidays and are a treasured part of summer, at least for children.
Yeah i just edited my paragraph to include "England" after i surfed a few discussions about the ice cream truck. There are some interesting choices of songs that ice cream trucks play around the world but so far as ive discovered "Greensleeves" seems to be the norm for England and Australia. I'd love to know how far back that goes.
Should it be mentioned that this song is sometimes played by the icecream truck in GTA IV? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.75.114.143 ( talk) 23:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
In the German Wikipedia there is sheet music ( http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Datei:Greensleeves.gif&filetimestamp=20080925054310 ) embedded in the article, wouldn't that make sense for this version, too? 85.22.22.40 ( talk) 16:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I suggest adding McCoy Tyner's recording to the list (I would but the article is protected). It was released on his 2008 album Guitars and features Derek Trucks on guitar. JLK27 ( talk) 13:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
The song is also featured in the German 1998 Computer Game "Anno 1602" (U.S./Canada title "1602 A.D.")
---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_1602
This recording which was made especially for the game is often regarded as an excellent version due to the accurate use of a classic harp.
This version can currently be heard in this youtube video:
I think it is really worth mentioning as there are no other games mentioned in the article. May this reference be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.189.229.167 ( talk) 23:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I've removed the references to Sir Thomas Wyatt from the section on Henry VIII. As Aliison Weir says the Italian style of composition did not reach England until after his (Henry's) death. As Sir Thomas Wyatt died five years before Henry, he couldn't have introduced it, either. David T Tokyo ( talk) 10:22, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Do we really need more than a couple of samples in this article? I can believe those to illustrate differences in modes, but once we start adding versions in different genres, we are in danger of breaching WP:INDISCRIMINATE and allowing others in. Furthermore, copyrighted performances (as opposed to the song itself) will need fair-use rationales, and the more we have, the less easy is it to justify their presence. I think we should leave it as just the two. Comments welcome. Rodhull andemu 17:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Greensleevs wasn't in "Dick Turpin" (1979- ) What kids'TV series was it in then?
It wasn't Dick Turpin.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf7_xBtgd-c
82.168.48.122 ( talk) 13:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)dd
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From the 4th to 5th note, it is a rise of a whole-tone interval rather than a semitone interval, as the sheet music--which is correct--indicates, but the first sound file plays the 5th note half-tone lower. It seems now the wrong version is more popular than the correct one which sounds different and better. But still, there are correct versions at Youtube, and the following is an example, even though it is played at a different key. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn4hAdSGYEY -- Roland ( talk) 04:13, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
The lede to this article is ridiculously complex, to the point of being obfuscatory. This might pass in a musicological text, but hardly in an excyclopedia article for general consumption. I suggest reducing the opening sentence to:
"Greensleeves is a traditional English folk song and tune, probably written sometime in the 16th century."
I would further delete everything in the opening paragraph down to the final sentence:
"The tune is found in several late-16th-century and early-17th-century sources, such as Ballet's MS Lute Book and Het Luitboek van Thysius, as well as various manuscripts preserved in the Seeley Historical Library in the University of Cambridge."
... and move all the business about "romanesca", "passamezzo antico", and "the Andalusian progression" down to a lower section in the article, perhaps entitled Form or History. 67.206.187.92 ( talk) 06:06, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
This article and most talk page comments refer to lyrics, perhaps many versions. Not a single version given in the article. It's written like everyone reading the article already knows words to this song. Personally, I didn't when I started reading, and still don't. Good job wikipedia. 2600:8807:5480:713:C018:59E9:EF6E:715E ( talk) 18:41, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Greenfleeves. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 14#Greenfleeves until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm ( talk) 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi, just found this, or the version by The Beverley Sisters, on the list of songs banned by the BBC. Fun, but improbable, if it was for reasons of Tudor morality. Is the reason known? T 84.208.65.62 ( talk) 23:51, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
I am moving this paragraph here, so that we can sort this out and be done with it. First of all, I see no reason this needs to be in the lede. It should be rewritten, preferably with a direct quote from Weir's book, which is referenced.
After rewriting, it should be placed somewhere in the main body of the article. --- RepublicanJacobite The'FortyFive' 14:22, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify something: When Alison Weir says that Greensleeves is "probably Elizabethan" in origin, she is not opening up the possibility that it could have been written in Henry VIII's time. The Romamesca form (on which Greensleeves is based) is a style of music that lasted from 1550-1650. It other words, it's earliest date is 3 years after Henry's death. So although Greensleeves is "probably" Elizabethan, there is an outside chance it could have been written in the reign of Edward VI (1547-1553) or Mary (1553-1558) - but not in Henry's reign. David T Tokyo ( talk) 18:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Greg Lindahl, Garik, David T Tokyo, DMacks, Magnoliasouth Since Weir cites Starkey [2] [3] [4] (though the relevant chapter is by Peter Holman) citing Weir doesn't make much sense.
Since Holman says "it is based on an Italian chord progression that became known in England only after his death" [5] whereas the whole p. 154 reference is "But his abilities as a composer have been over-rated: he did not compose ‘Greensleeves’" [6] I've changed the citation so that it's now to p. 104 instead of 154.
There's more detail in the following by Holman: "... ‘Greensleeves’ ( DF, i. 6) is not an original melody but is merely a descant of the Romanesca ground. The original duple-time tune was used for the ballad of ‘Lady Greensleeves’, first published in 1580 (hence the title); the familiar compound-time version seems to have been developed in the middle of the seventeenth century as a country dance tune. Incidentally, the Romanesca did not appear in England until the mid sixteenth century, which makes it unlikely that ‘Greensleeves’ was written by Henry VIII (1491-1547), as is often claimed". [7] Perhaps some of that could be included in the Form section in addition to Origin. Mcljlm ( talk) 05:42, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
References
SpamFritterBitter and David T Tokyo. There are multiple section above this discussing the Henry VIII authorship claims and they seem to come to the conclusion that sources state Henry VIII didn't write Greensleves. If you read the three sources next to the disputed sentence you can see the following:
...though his achievements in that direction have been exaggerated: he did not write 'Greensleeves', ...
Let’s clear one thing up first of all: Henry VIII did not compose ‘Greensleeves’. Italian in form with an Elizabethan text, this is one piece that must be struck from the list of works by this most musical of monarchs.
...nothing to link it to either Henry or Anne, nor to anyone else. Henry VIII died in 1547. Greensleeves first appeared in 1580.
It seems clear, based on sources, that he didn't write Greensleeves and the article should say that. In fact the first two of the sources next to the disputed sentence don't confirm that "It is a common romantic legend that Henry wrote the song for his lover and future queen consort Anne Boleyn." CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 10:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)