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Green Flake article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A fact from Green Flake appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 12 July 2016 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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I have added the further citations needed to the article because of its reliance on the unpublished Ronald Coleman source. In particular, the Slave Status section includes this source a number of times.
In addition, the Slave Status section appears to editorialize Brigham Young's attitude toward Black men such as Flake. It makes a statement that Young freed Flake, using the unpublished source, after claiming earlier in the article that not all Flake descendants agree this was the case. It's confusing to the reader. It also makes a illogical link that Young saw Flake as an equal because he mediated an argument between Flake and his owner. This also uses the unpublished source as a citation. Further, no mention is made of Young's legalizing slavery in 1852, nor his announcement of priesthood denial to Black men in the same year.
Can we come to a consensus that finds a better source for the Coleman claims, while also approaching the issue of slave status with all of the facts? Seeker095 ( talk) 04:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
As of today, this whole article is poorly written, not encyclopedic style, and contains fictional and inaccurate content. The Coleman source is a dissertation and is one of the most reliable current sources and does meet Wikipedia standards. I'll edit the citation to reflect that. The Joel Flake paper is an unpublished, undergraduate paper and probably should not be used. University of Utah Press is publishing a book next year on slavery in Utah that can be cited here, but for now, some clean up would be helpful to put the article into encyclopedic style and remove unsourced claims. Thank you for adding the template message. KHearts ( talk) 14:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the extensive cleanup. The UofU book will be a welcome addition to this and other articles. Seeker095 ( talk) 15:55, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
There are several versions of the myth of Green Flake being donated to the LDS Church as tithing. The one edited into this entry in January 2022 is a new invention, moving the supposed donation back about six years and situating it in Nauvoo instead of Utah. Green was never donated as tithing. That claim from a child of his enslavers (William Flake) is based on an error of memory many decades later. For a discussion, see the lecture at Mormon History Association, June 2021, “‘Freed in the South’: Latter-day Saint Biographies and Historical Inaccuracies about Slavery” by Amy Tanner Thiriot. From the presentation: "Not only was it not legally possible for [William Flake’s] mother to donate property from her husband’s estate, but historical documentation confirms that his childhood memory was faulty. However, the myth spread, and is now enshrined in public memory. Flake’s invention may have been an attempt to redeem his family’s engagement in slavery by reimagining their involvement as a sacred tithing donation.” KHearts ( talk) 16:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
I noticed that the image on this article was oddly smudged about the details (such as the texture of Flake's tie, or his hat partially blending into the chair), and the description calls it "digitally-enhanced". It looks to me that the image has been poorly upscaled with AI, and would like to know if 1.) that is the case, and 2.) if the image could be replaced with the original non-upscaled image. I'd much rather have to parse an old photo than a rough facsimile, if possible. 205.185.107.19 ( talk) 10:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Green Flake article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from Green Flake appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 12 July 2016 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
I have added the further citations needed to the article because of its reliance on the unpublished Ronald Coleman source. In particular, the Slave Status section includes this source a number of times.
In addition, the Slave Status section appears to editorialize Brigham Young's attitude toward Black men such as Flake. It makes a statement that Young freed Flake, using the unpublished source, after claiming earlier in the article that not all Flake descendants agree this was the case. It's confusing to the reader. It also makes a illogical link that Young saw Flake as an equal because he mediated an argument between Flake and his owner. This also uses the unpublished source as a citation. Further, no mention is made of Young's legalizing slavery in 1852, nor his announcement of priesthood denial to Black men in the same year.
Can we come to a consensus that finds a better source for the Coleman claims, while also approaching the issue of slave status with all of the facts? Seeker095 ( talk) 04:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
As of today, this whole article is poorly written, not encyclopedic style, and contains fictional and inaccurate content. The Coleman source is a dissertation and is one of the most reliable current sources and does meet Wikipedia standards. I'll edit the citation to reflect that. The Joel Flake paper is an unpublished, undergraduate paper and probably should not be used. University of Utah Press is publishing a book next year on slavery in Utah that can be cited here, but for now, some clean up would be helpful to put the article into encyclopedic style and remove unsourced claims. Thank you for adding the template message. KHearts ( talk) 14:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the extensive cleanup. The UofU book will be a welcome addition to this and other articles. Seeker095 ( talk) 15:55, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
There are several versions of the myth of Green Flake being donated to the LDS Church as tithing. The one edited into this entry in January 2022 is a new invention, moving the supposed donation back about six years and situating it in Nauvoo instead of Utah. Green was never donated as tithing. That claim from a child of his enslavers (William Flake) is based on an error of memory many decades later. For a discussion, see the lecture at Mormon History Association, June 2021, “‘Freed in the South’: Latter-day Saint Biographies and Historical Inaccuracies about Slavery” by Amy Tanner Thiriot. From the presentation: "Not only was it not legally possible for [William Flake’s] mother to donate property from her husband’s estate, but historical documentation confirms that his childhood memory was faulty. However, the myth spread, and is now enshrined in public memory. Flake’s invention may have been an attempt to redeem his family’s engagement in slavery by reimagining their involvement as a sacred tithing donation.” KHearts ( talk) 16:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
I noticed that the image on this article was oddly smudged about the details (such as the texture of Flake's tie, or his hat partially blending into the chair), and the description calls it "digitally-enhanced". It looks to me that the image has been poorly upscaled with AI, and would like to know if 1.) that is the case, and 2.) if the image could be replaced with the original non-upscaled image. I'd much rather have to parse an old photo than a rough facsimile, if possible. 205.185.107.19 ( talk) 10:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)