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I am rephrasing the last part to fit into the title definition of Greco-Turkish relations, whose main pertinent element here is the existence of an agreement since 2002.
I will also reduce the pornographic material on İzmir and else. Cretanforever —Preceding undated comment added 07:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
For the 2001 incident, and for the mine casualties since 1996, my point was once again, contextual and legal. The article is about Greco-Turkish relations, and the subheading is on immigration issues. An agreement was signed in 2002 covering the question. Anything that occurred before the agreement happened in a context of status quo ante. If you can tie -for example- the 2001 incident to the agreement, for example point out that it had a significant effect on its signing, I can understand the point on its inclusion. Otherwise I would say that we should have an article titled, Incidents along the Greco-Turkish border. I am only making my point, but I won't be pushy about it. Regards. Cretanforever
I don't know exactly what you have been argueing about, but if it is greek sources on refugees/immigrants thrown overboard near Chios, maybe this athens.indymedia.org thread can provide some sources in Greek (from Eleftherotypia and the local press). I hope I helped. -- Michalis Famelis (talk) 22:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Why doesn't the map locator on the top of the page work? Anyone know how to fix it? I will also need it for other foreign relations articles as well.. Baristarim 00:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, that's more like it. Politis 13:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
In 1940 Greece was not occupied by Germans.Greeks has defeated the Italians in Albbania!Greece was occupied by Germans in April 1941!So Turks had not help Greeks during the famine in Athens during German occupation!Also Turkey was neatral during WWII,how many dead Turks were during WWII.Stop propaganda inside wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nlkrio ( talk • contribs)
Hi all. This is my first post, so I am still learning the Wiki system. Please explain any mistakes to me.
I was a little bit flabbergasted to read about "the Turkish F-16 pilot Nail Erdogan, who was shot-down by a Greek Mirage 2000". Which is the source for this claim? As far as I know this allegation is built on a single article in a Greek popular magazine. The alleged shotdown has however not been proven as far as I know. I think pure speculation is sold here as a fact.
Any opinions on that?
-- Letus 13:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your efforts. I am nevertheless afraid your information is not correct. I have done some research on the matter two years ago. The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) back then confirmed to me that they did not receive any application of this kind by the family of the dead pilot. My findings were subsequently published in a Greek magazine as I was told last year - without my knowledge that is. I can find out the source if necessary.
Three months ago a colleague from Greece contacted me and confirmed that the court still did not receive an application. The ECHR story seems quite like propaganda to my ears. It is a fine example of disinformation I am afraid. Sadly, rather typical for most of the Greek-Turkish disputes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Letus ( talk • contribs)
I agree completely. I too think it is not necessary to include this information in the article as is now. And I anyway want to find out the whereabouts of the unauthorized publication I mentioned. Letus 19:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Baristarim, why are you replacing Izmir → İzmir? Since this is an American and English language site and the spelling is with a I. Politis 16:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I must admit that not a single Enlgish language Turkish tourist brochure or CVD (at London's International Travel Market) shows Izmir with a diecritic. That was one of my points of reference. Politis 00:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
No worries, but, really, what is the pronounciation difference if possible? (just curious) Niko Silver 01:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Forget all that. I'm genuinely interested. (Khoi's) Sit amd (Baris') in and d still sound all the same to me! Am I doing something wrong? Could someone try to explain in my talk please? Niko Silver 02:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
There's an interesting discussion about this at Talk:Istanbul/Archive 1#Whence came the "İ?". Someone thought that Turks write in Arabic. :-) Khoi khoi 03:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Khoikhoi's links ( Close front unrounded vowel and close back unrounded vowel) were an enlightenment! Thanks mate, there are ogg files that describe the sounds and make things clear. So i without the dot sounds more like u in Dusseldorf, only shorter and more acute, kind of like a funny inbetween of υ and ου in Greek. So that's why Turkish sounds like that at Yabancı Damat. I always thought "Nazlı" was pronounced a bit strange! -- Michalis Famelis (talk) 09:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
No problem. :-) I also just remembered that there's an article about it: Turkish dotted and dotless I. Khoi khoi 10:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I am Turkish and I love my brothers out of Greece :D Our cultures grew toghether in the ottoman era time and thus we have alot of simularities. Also we as neighbouring countries should help each other more. Cause we all know that if a war would break out Greece and Turkey would back each other up no matter what. Thus we hate each other, but we love each other :D
Greece and Turkey RULE! :D ( Barakus 09:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC))
Hello to Greeks from Constantinople! Turks love their country because they actually are the descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire. You guys should respect that. Lets be friends and we can settle disputes such as Cyprus and the aegean islands very easily. Don't believe greek media lies. There is no threat to you from this side of the sea. Remember that Venizelos and Ataturk almost managed to unite both countries. Remember that Turkey sent humanitarian aid during WW2 for greek resistance against the germans. Love and Greets.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Barisbarisbaris (
talk •
contribs)
Nice people but these wishes are noting to solve problems, of course people will love each, as proved during ww2 and earthquake diplomacy, but political problems need mutual understanding(which love lacks), sharing a common culture, unfortunately, does not help it(similar to Yugoslavia). we must discuss what can be done and what must be prevented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doganaktas ( talk • contribs) Doganaktas (UTC)
Isn't it an important event to mention in Greco-Turkish Relations at least at the "Timeline" part as his relations in Greece [2]are concerned and the role of Greek embassy in Nairobi international airport Kenya, when he captured in an operation by MIT, 1999? ( SEY01 15:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC))
I just had a glance at the article again and I found it striking that it only refers to official state-to-state/government-to-government relations. Is there any chance that we could incorporate any people-to-people relations, cultural bonds etc? I am referring to stuff like greco-turkish movies (I can tell of A Touch of Spice, Loafing and Camouflage: Sirens in the Aegean from the Greek side, I've heard of similar common productions from the Turkish side), TV shows ( Yabancı Damat, Survivor), the cross-popularity of writers and poets ( Nazim Hikmet was popular in Greece during the 70ies through Manos Loïzos, and so is Orhan Pamuk now, I don't know if any Greeks -apart from the classics- are read at the other coast but I could guess Nikos Kazantzakis might be), pop singers like Anna Vissi being popular in Turkey and Sertab Erener in Greece and so on and so forth. Would any of that make any sense in this article, or is it only about diplomacy? Thoughts? -- Michalis Famelis (talk) 16:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
In my understanding, the article is about official diplomatic relations. Anyway, if we are going to create a section about greco-turkish friendship (I mean friendship between the two peopes, not the government, as michalis noticed), we must also add information about opposition to greco-turkish friendship, the Grey Wolves from the turkish side, various nationalist organisation (such as Hrisi Avgi) from the greek side. Mitsos 10:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
How about a (more or less) copy of Michalis' first post in this section, under the section title of Yanni's proposed article for a start? Niko Silver 16:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
"although I'd be reluctant to call what Vissi/Sertab do "culture" :-) )" That's right! Sostos! Mitsos 14:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Should that be mentioned in the 'between conflicts' section? Reaper7 02:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Closure of Halki school is not related to Pogrom. The Balkan Pact was (according to the Wiki article) about the territorial claims against each other. Also I hope you are not forgetting that there was a World War II in 1940, and Romania (on the sides in the Balkan PAct) was on the Axis side. As far as I know, Turkey did help Greece, though unofficially, as at that moment Turkey did not want to take part in such a thing called the World War. I don't see why your text is all about Balkan Pact(s). Deniz T C 14:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Added the important 1952 riots in Istanbul and moved the lines that refer to Cyprus under the right heading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.176.105.39 ( talk) 13:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
"Turkey still denies access to Cypriot vessels to its territory" So does that mean that Turkey does not allow Greek-Cypriot ships to pass through the straits in the Dardanelles and Bosporus into the Black Sea?-- Waterfall999 12:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
It is about the economical embargo inflicted on Turkish Cypriots by UN and Ankara announced to lift it as soon as Turkish Cypriots have their economical rights, which seems impossible before a general solution on the island. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doganaktas ( talk • contribs) 08:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
The current version says:
Greek politicians of the 19th century were determined to include all these territories within a greatly enlarged Greek state, based on the Byzantine model and with Constantinople as its capital. This policy was called the Great Idea (Megali Idea).
I am not sure whether this is correct. As far as I know the "Megali Idea", which formed the basis for Greek expansionism, was not to include former Byzantine territories but Greek speaking populations in the border of a Greater Greece. Any ideas anyone? Letus 12:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Greek populations in Turkey at the time corresponded with the former territories Byzantine Empire-- Waterfall999 12:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Megali idea was founded on the basis of Hellenic majority, which in fact was not all true for land demands( Constantinople, Smyrna had Turkish majority Pontos had Muslim majority), And considering the 1910 Balkan situation( most of the territory gained by Greece had Muslim majority even in Thessaloniki greeks were third ethnic group after Turks and Jews(first is doubtful because Donmeh were included in Turks)), The claims of ethnic Megali Idea doesnt correspond with the expansionist behaviour of it, due to the fact that being 3rd ethnic group was enough to claim the land. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doganaktas ( talk • contribs) 08:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is there nothing on the neglect of the Hagia Sofia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.162.158 ( talk) 02:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
WHat negations, explanation is needed?
My understanding is that the Greeks generally blame the Ottoman Turks for wrecking Greece and leaving them with no functional civil society, which is one of the reasons why the modern Greek state is so dysfunctional. That is, as Michael Lewis has pointed out, no one in Greece trusts each other, so everyone steals from each other like crazy and no one pays taxes. Isn't that a major part of contemporary Greek-Turkish relations that should be mentioned here? -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 05:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanatos| talk 03:14, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should this article be re-titled "Greece-Turkey relations"? Per the title of the other articles such as Germany-Turkey relations, Spain-Turkey relations? Using Greek-Turkish relations in the opening or intro sentence seems okay to me, but using it as a title does not seem appropriate while all other articles use the countries proper names as opposed to adjectival.-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 19:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes they do use that naming pattern all over wikipedia and off. Greek-Turkish relations is what is awkward. The names of the two countries are not "Greek" and "Turkish".-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 01:13, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
There is no need to be disrespectful, but that does not indicate title of countries. For example if Kurds ran the foreign ministry of Turkey, would the article be re-titled -Greek-Kurdish relations? No. This is about the countries, not the adjectives of them.-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 20:02, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with English grammar. Relations between two companies or organizations for example wouldn't use their adjectives (if they even have any) would they? I'll wait for more comments from the RFC.-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 02:38, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
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There was a deletion of the Hagia Sophia section. I believe it would be a good idea to communicate and talk about such a big deletion in the article before it happens. We can talk here about what we will do with this section and the have decision. I restored the deleted section until we decide what we should do.
My opinion is that it should be kept since it affects a lot the relation between the two countries and lately Turkey has change her behavior and have let Muslim prays inside the building which was forbidden at the past and clearly show how the relation between the countries get worse (the first prays started in 2016). Even the Turkish President, in March 2018, recited verses of the Quran inside the building and dedicated them to the Mehmed II, who was the Ottoman Sultan who conquered the city and converted the building as a mosque, something that have never done before. Gre regiment ( talk) 14:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
No consensus, after extended time for discussion. bd2412 T 18:37, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Greek–Turkish relations → Greece–Turkey relations – All subcategories and all pages in Category:Bilateral relations of Greece and Category:Bilateral relations of Turkey. Sawol ( talk) 07:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. bd2412 T 02:42, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''
or * '''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.Following community discussion neither the noun (e.g. Germany–Italy relations) or the adjective form (e.g. German–Italian relations) is preferred.This means that the current name would also be okay. However, as has been said, most other articles use nouns (and have done so since 2009... quite a lot of time to have tried to amend the issue if it was so "destructive". Yet it has not been done) and this one seems to be the only exception, so WP:CONSISTENCY would prevail. It seems much easier to change the title for one article that doing so for dozens of them. Impru20 talk 21:28, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
An anon editor updated Open border#Examples of closed borders with this:
The border between Turkey and Greece is almost closed due to the hostilities the two countries. However, only one sole (controlled) border exists at Kipoi, Evros.
So I came here expecting to find a section on the Greco-Turkish border that would confirm or deny. But the border controls aren't even mentioned at all? Could someone rectify,please? Meanwhile, can the statement be cited? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 10:17, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
@ Dr.K.: I'd like to add a sentence to Migrants section, but I'd like to get a consensus because of the reverts. Ahmetlii ( talk) 09:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
your text herebe included in the migrants section"? But since the issue has not even been discussed here, I think a RfC greatly premature. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 20:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
In 2020, Greece reverted some migrants to Turkey, and accused with human rights violations by some sources. [1] [2]
- ^ Kingsley, Patrick; Shoumali, Karam (2020-08-14). "Taking Hard Line, Greece Turns Back Migrants by Abandoning Them at Sea". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2020-08-16.
- ^ Rothwell, James; Crisp, James; Papadimitriou, Yannis-Orestis (2020-03-06). "Greek police accused of stripping and brutally beating migrants near Turkish border". The Telegraph. ISSN 0307-1235. Retrieved 2020-08-16.
A number of recent (and not so recent) additions to this article are questionable:
Apart from these issues, there's of course also the general old problem of the absolutely chaotic, jumbled structure of the whole article. Seriously, we need to decide once and for all if we want a time-line structure or a structuring by topics, and then stick with that, rather than adding one timeline here and another timeline there at random. Of course, the present chaos is caused by the old tendency of filling up the article with coverage of current news (contrary to WP:NOTNEWS) and generally treating it as a laundry list of whatever Greek complaints about Turkey are uppermost in the Greek news at any given time. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:25, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
link. Dr. K. 17:57, 3 September 2020 (UTC)Relations further soured in July over the re-conversion of Istanbul’s Hagia Sophia into a mosque. That revived a centuries-long dispute over one of the world’s most contested religious buildings and irked Russia and Greece, the centers of Orthodox Christianity
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:27, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
Responding to Khirurg: my deletion about it is WP:NPOV as I said before; reliability of the sources are questionable due to their reliability is doubtful and not supported by a third-party source although this event happened months ago according to that sources. (Also, I can mention that the sources are repeating theirselves, by just saying the claim. I suspect that's falling to WP:FRINGE.) -- Ahmetlii ( talk) 18:17, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
I am rephrasing the last part to fit into the title definition of Greco-Turkish relations, whose main pertinent element here is the existence of an agreement since 2002.
I will also reduce the pornographic material on İzmir and else. Cretanforever —Preceding undated comment added 07:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
For the 2001 incident, and for the mine casualties since 1996, my point was once again, contextual and legal. The article is about Greco-Turkish relations, and the subheading is on immigration issues. An agreement was signed in 2002 covering the question. Anything that occurred before the agreement happened in a context of status quo ante. If you can tie -for example- the 2001 incident to the agreement, for example point out that it had a significant effect on its signing, I can understand the point on its inclusion. Otherwise I would say that we should have an article titled, Incidents along the Greco-Turkish border. I am only making my point, but I won't be pushy about it. Regards. Cretanforever
I don't know exactly what you have been argueing about, but if it is greek sources on refugees/immigrants thrown overboard near Chios, maybe this athens.indymedia.org thread can provide some sources in Greek (from Eleftherotypia and the local press). I hope I helped. -- Michalis Famelis (talk) 22:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Why doesn't the map locator on the top of the page work? Anyone know how to fix it? I will also need it for other foreign relations articles as well.. Baristarim 00:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, that's more like it. Politis 13:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
In 1940 Greece was not occupied by Germans.Greeks has defeated the Italians in Albbania!Greece was occupied by Germans in April 1941!So Turks had not help Greeks during the famine in Athens during German occupation!Also Turkey was neatral during WWII,how many dead Turks were during WWII.Stop propaganda inside wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nlkrio ( talk • contribs)
Hi all. This is my first post, so I am still learning the Wiki system. Please explain any mistakes to me.
I was a little bit flabbergasted to read about "the Turkish F-16 pilot Nail Erdogan, who was shot-down by a Greek Mirage 2000". Which is the source for this claim? As far as I know this allegation is built on a single article in a Greek popular magazine. The alleged shotdown has however not been proven as far as I know. I think pure speculation is sold here as a fact.
Any opinions on that?
-- Letus 13:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your efforts. I am nevertheless afraid your information is not correct. I have done some research on the matter two years ago. The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) back then confirmed to me that they did not receive any application of this kind by the family of the dead pilot. My findings were subsequently published in a Greek magazine as I was told last year - without my knowledge that is. I can find out the source if necessary.
Three months ago a colleague from Greece contacted me and confirmed that the court still did not receive an application. The ECHR story seems quite like propaganda to my ears. It is a fine example of disinformation I am afraid. Sadly, rather typical for most of the Greek-Turkish disputes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Letus ( talk • contribs)
I agree completely. I too think it is not necessary to include this information in the article as is now. And I anyway want to find out the whereabouts of the unauthorized publication I mentioned. Letus 19:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Baristarim, why are you replacing Izmir → İzmir? Since this is an American and English language site and the spelling is with a I. Politis 16:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I must admit that not a single Enlgish language Turkish tourist brochure or CVD (at London's International Travel Market) shows Izmir with a diecritic. That was one of my points of reference. Politis 00:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
No worries, but, really, what is the pronounciation difference if possible? (just curious) Niko Silver 01:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Forget all that. I'm genuinely interested. (Khoi's) Sit amd (Baris') in and d still sound all the same to me! Am I doing something wrong? Could someone try to explain in my talk please? Niko Silver 02:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
There's an interesting discussion about this at Talk:Istanbul/Archive 1#Whence came the "İ?". Someone thought that Turks write in Arabic. :-) Khoi khoi 03:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Khoikhoi's links ( Close front unrounded vowel and close back unrounded vowel) were an enlightenment! Thanks mate, there are ogg files that describe the sounds and make things clear. So i without the dot sounds more like u in Dusseldorf, only shorter and more acute, kind of like a funny inbetween of υ and ου in Greek. So that's why Turkish sounds like that at Yabancı Damat. I always thought "Nazlı" was pronounced a bit strange! -- Michalis Famelis (talk) 09:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
No problem. :-) I also just remembered that there's an article about it: Turkish dotted and dotless I. Khoi khoi 10:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I am Turkish and I love my brothers out of Greece :D Our cultures grew toghether in the ottoman era time and thus we have alot of simularities. Also we as neighbouring countries should help each other more. Cause we all know that if a war would break out Greece and Turkey would back each other up no matter what. Thus we hate each other, but we love each other :D
Greece and Turkey RULE! :D ( Barakus 09:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC))
Hello to Greeks from Constantinople! Turks love their country because they actually are the descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire. You guys should respect that. Lets be friends and we can settle disputes such as Cyprus and the aegean islands very easily. Don't believe greek media lies. There is no threat to you from this side of the sea. Remember that Venizelos and Ataturk almost managed to unite both countries. Remember that Turkey sent humanitarian aid during WW2 for greek resistance against the germans. Love and Greets.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Barisbarisbaris (
talk •
contribs)
Nice people but these wishes are noting to solve problems, of course people will love each, as proved during ww2 and earthquake diplomacy, but political problems need mutual understanding(which love lacks), sharing a common culture, unfortunately, does not help it(similar to Yugoslavia). we must discuss what can be done and what must be prevented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doganaktas ( talk • contribs) Doganaktas (UTC)
Isn't it an important event to mention in Greco-Turkish Relations at least at the "Timeline" part as his relations in Greece [2]are concerned and the role of Greek embassy in Nairobi international airport Kenya, when he captured in an operation by MIT, 1999? ( SEY01 15:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC))
I just had a glance at the article again and I found it striking that it only refers to official state-to-state/government-to-government relations. Is there any chance that we could incorporate any people-to-people relations, cultural bonds etc? I am referring to stuff like greco-turkish movies (I can tell of A Touch of Spice, Loafing and Camouflage: Sirens in the Aegean from the Greek side, I've heard of similar common productions from the Turkish side), TV shows ( Yabancı Damat, Survivor), the cross-popularity of writers and poets ( Nazim Hikmet was popular in Greece during the 70ies through Manos Loïzos, and so is Orhan Pamuk now, I don't know if any Greeks -apart from the classics- are read at the other coast but I could guess Nikos Kazantzakis might be), pop singers like Anna Vissi being popular in Turkey and Sertab Erener in Greece and so on and so forth. Would any of that make any sense in this article, or is it only about diplomacy? Thoughts? -- Michalis Famelis (talk) 16:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
In my understanding, the article is about official diplomatic relations. Anyway, if we are going to create a section about greco-turkish friendship (I mean friendship between the two peopes, not the government, as michalis noticed), we must also add information about opposition to greco-turkish friendship, the Grey Wolves from the turkish side, various nationalist organisation (such as Hrisi Avgi) from the greek side. Mitsos 10:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
How about a (more or less) copy of Michalis' first post in this section, under the section title of Yanni's proposed article for a start? Niko Silver 16:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
"although I'd be reluctant to call what Vissi/Sertab do "culture" :-) )" That's right! Sostos! Mitsos 14:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Should that be mentioned in the 'between conflicts' section? Reaper7 02:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Closure of Halki school is not related to Pogrom. The Balkan Pact was (according to the Wiki article) about the territorial claims against each other. Also I hope you are not forgetting that there was a World War II in 1940, and Romania (on the sides in the Balkan PAct) was on the Axis side. As far as I know, Turkey did help Greece, though unofficially, as at that moment Turkey did not want to take part in such a thing called the World War. I don't see why your text is all about Balkan Pact(s). Deniz T C 14:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Added the important 1952 riots in Istanbul and moved the lines that refer to Cyprus under the right heading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.176.105.39 ( talk) 13:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
"Turkey still denies access to Cypriot vessels to its territory" So does that mean that Turkey does not allow Greek-Cypriot ships to pass through the straits in the Dardanelles and Bosporus into the Black Sea?-- Waterfall999 12:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
It is about the economical embargo inflicted on Turkish Cypriots by UN and Ankara announced to lift it as soon as Turkish Cypriots have their economical rights, which seems impossible before a general solution on the island. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doganaktas ( talk • contribs) 08:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
The current version says:
Greek politicians of the 19th century were determined to include all these territories within a greatly enlarged Greek state, based on the Byzantine model and with Constantinople as its capital. This policy was called the Great Idea (Megali Idea).
I am not sure whether this is correct. As far as I know the "Megali Idea", which formed the basis for Greek expansionism, was not to include former Byzantine territories but Greek speaking populations in the border of a Greater Greece. Any ideas anyone? Letus 12:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Greek populations in Turkey at the time corresponded with the former territories Byzantine Empire-- Waterfall999 12:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Megali idea was founded on the basis of Hellenic majority, which in fact was not all true for land demands( Constantinople, Smyrna had Turkish majority Pontos had Muslim majority), And considering the 1910 Balkan situation( most of the territory gained by Greece had Muslim majority even in Thessaloniki greeks were third ethnic group after Turks and Jews(first is doubtful because Donmeh were included in Turks)), The claims of ethnic Megali Idea doesnt correspond with the expansionist behaviour of it, due to the fact that being 3rd ethnic group was enough to claim the land. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doganaktas ( talk • contribs) 08:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is there nothing on the neglect of the Hagia Sofia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.162.158 ( talk) 02:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
WHat negations, explanation is needed?
My understanding is that the Greeks generally blame the Ottoman Turks for wrecking Greece and leaving them with no functional civil society, which is one of the reasons why the modern Greek state is so dysfunctional. That is, as Michael Lewis has pointed out, no one in Greece trusts each other, so everyone steals from each other like crazy and no one pays taxes. Isn't that a major part of contemporary Greek-Turkish relations that should be mentioned here? -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 05:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanatos| talk 03:14, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should this article be re-titled "Greece-Turkey relations"? Per the title of the other articles such as Germany-Turkey relations, Spain-Turkey relations? Using Greek-Turkish relations in the opening or intro sentence seems okay to me, but using it as a title does not seem appropriate while all other articles use the countries proper names as opposed to adjectival.-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 19:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes they do use that naming pattern all over wikipedia and off. Greek-Turkish relations is what is awkward. The names of the two countries are not "Greek" and "Turkish".-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 01:13, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
There is no need to be disrespectful, but that does not indicate title of countries. For example if Kurds ran the foreign ministry of Turkey, would the article be re-titled -Greek-Kurdish relations? No. This is about the countries, not the adjectives of them.-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 20:02, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with English grammar. Relations between two companies or organizations for example wouldn't use their adjectives (if they even have any) would they? I'll wait for more comments from the RFC.-- Nadirali نادرالی ( talk) 02:38, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
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There was a deletion of the Hagia Sophia section. I believe it would be a good idea to communicate and talk about such a big deletion in the article before it happens. We can talk here about what we will do with this section and the have decision. I restored the deleted section until we decide what we should do.
My opinion is that it should be kept since it affects a lot the relation between the two countries and lately Turkey has change her behavior and have let Muslim prays inside the building which was forbidden at the past and clearly show how the relation between the countries get worse (the first prays started in 2016). Even the Turkish President, in March 2018, recited verses of the Quran inside the building and dedicated them to the Mehmed II, who was the Ottoman Sultan who conquered the city and converted the building as a mosque, something that have never done before. Gre regiment ( talk) 14:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
No consensus, after extended time for discussion. bd2412 T 18:37, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Greek–Turkish relations → Greece–Turkey relations – All subcategories and all pages in Category:Bilateral relations of Greece and Category:Bilateral relations of Turkey. Sawol ( talk) 07:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. bd2412 T 02:42, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''
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polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.Following community discussion neither the noun (e.g. Germany–Italy relations) or the adjective form (e.g. German–Italian relations) is preferred.This means that the current name would also be okay. However, as has been said, most other articles use nouns (and have done so since 2009... quite a lot of time to have tried to amend the issue if it was so "destructive". Yet it has not been done) and this one seems to be the only exception, so WP:CONSISTENCY would prevail. It seems much easier to change the title for one article that doing so for dozens of them. Impru20 talk 21:28, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
An anon editor updated Open border#Examples of closed borders with this:
The border between Turkey and Greece is almost closed due to the hostilities the two countries. However, only one sole (controlled) border exists at Kipoi, Evros.
So I came here expecting to find a section on the Greco-Turkish border that would confirm or deny. But the border controls aren't even mentioned at all? Could someone rectify,please? Meanwhile, can the statement be cited? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 10:17, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
@ Dr.K.: I'd like to add a sentence to Migrants section, but I'd like to get a consensus because of the reverts. Ahmetlii ( talk) 09:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
your text herebe included in the migrants section"? But since the issue has not even been discussed here, I think a RfC greatly premature. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 20:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
In 2020, Greece reverted some migrants to Turkey, and accused with human rights violations by some sources. [1] [2]
- ^ Kingsley, Patrick; Shoumali, Karam (2020-08-14). "Taking Hard Line, Greece Turns Back Migrants by Abandoning Them at Sea". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2020-08-16.
- ^ Rothwell, James; Crisp, James; Papadimitriou, Yannis-Orestis (2020-03-06). "Greek police accused of stripping and brutally beating migrants near Turkish border". The Telegraph. ISSN 0307-1235. Retrieved 2020-08-16.
A number of recent (and not so recent) additions to this article are questionable:
Apart from these issues, there's of course also the general old problem of the absolutely chaotic, jumbled structure of the whole article. Seriously, we need to decide once and for all if we want a time-line structure or a structuring by topics, and then stick with that, rather than adding one timeline here and another timeline there at random. Of course, the present chaos is caused by the old tendency of filling up the article with coverage of current news (contrary to WP:NOTNEWS) and generally treating it as a laundry list of whatever Greek complaints about Turkey are uppermost in the Greek news at any given time. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:25, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
link. Dr. K. 17:57, 3 September 2020 (UTC)Relations further soured in July over the re-conversion of Istanbul’s Hagia Sophia into a mosque. That revived a centuries-long dispute over one of the world’s most contested religious buildings and irked Russia and Greece, the centers of Orthodox Christianity
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Responding to Khirurg: my deletion about it is WP:NPOV as I said before; reliability of the sources are questionable due to their reliability is doubtful and not supported by a third-party source although this event happened months ago according to that sources. (Also, I can mention that the sources are repeating theirselves, by just saying the claim. I suspect that's falling to WP:FRINGE.) -- Ahmetlii ( talk) 18:17, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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