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It seems like the article discusses modern Israeli politics, but clearly it refers to the time of the Irgun and the British mandate. -- GHcool 05:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
-G
User:Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg claims there was never a belief by any Jewish leader that Israel should include land from the nile to the euphrates, that was pure propaganda. Chapter V of Lustick's excellent book and the writings of Avraham Stern himself give the lie to this assertion. — Charles P._ (Mirv) 02:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
A few may have invoked the passage in a speech or two, but no leader, mainstream or fringe actually supported Israel existed from the nile to the euphrates, the most hardline only supported including part of Jordan and a small portion of Syria, but today not even fringe extremists support this, your previous edit was extremely misleading.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 04:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
-- Gabi S. 10:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
While I agree with you that he only had a few followers, I still think he was a signifigant figure. Perhaps we could put more emphasis on justs how much he was on the fringe.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 11:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
"Ok, I'm not trying to suggest anyone in Israel wants the border". There's nothign wrong in wanting it - but no one in Israel wants to starts wars in order to get them. That's the difference. Amoruso 18:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
this is racist nonsense
The map is extreamly innacurate. The "river of Egypt" is the El- Arish river, not the Nile. The eastern border DOES NOT include all the Euphrates but only the very northern part.
River of Egypt: Gen. 15 NAHAR Mitsrayyim = NILE
Num. 34 NAKHAL Mitsrayyim = Brook of Egypt ending in the Mediteranean Sea at El-Arish, the original southern border of Erets Yirael and Djund Falastin until the British redrew the border in favor of Egypt.
These maps are in controversy because they represent original research and have no sources. Sfarney ( talk) 19:45, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
To the best if my knowledge, wadi el-Arish to the edge of the Euphrates is the grandest Jewish idea, as those were the borders of Solomonic Israel, and indeed the largest natural borders for the western crescent. The Baathist idea doesn't jive with geography - all states included the Nile or Euphrates river valleys; I'm not aware of any state which just included the length of one bank. The maps should clearly differentiate between the Baathist idea and the Jewish irredentist ideas. As it stands now, a quick glance could leave a reader with an incorrect idea as to the actual irredentist position. Perhaps introducing a map of Western Palestine and the Transjordan, maybe with the West Bank and Gaza Strip outlined, in addition [and above] the current map, would more clearly convey the idea. Cheers, Tewfik Talk 21:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
--- The major problem with the map is that the key is wrong. The red, orange, and yellow area are the anti-zionist definitions. The red and orange area is sort of what Betar claimed should be the boundary of Israel back in the 1920s (They never laid claim to the Sinai, and their proposed boundary did extend to both sides of the Jordan River but not the whole "Trans-Jordan" (now the country of Jordan). And, to those who currently preach of "Greater Israel" today basically mean the current recognized boundaries of the State of Israel, plus the West Bank (sometimes referred to as "Judea and Samaria") and possibly the Golan Heights (although this is doubtful).
The truth is I'm not so sure that the article should include "anti-zionist" definitions, nor even the Betar definition since this was a proposal in the pre-Israel days and has never been referred to since Independence. I think it adds confusion about the term Greater Israel.
To understand the concept of Greater Israel today, you need to understand that the historic land of Israel was more connected to the hills of the West Bank than to the coastal land that present day Israel now occupies. To most advocates of Greater Israel, they see the West Bank as "historic Israel", and therefore must be made part of the state.
Since it had little historical relationship to ancient Israel, the Sinai never had much attraction to advocates of Greater Israel except as buffer territory, and probably was the reason it was so easily given up for a peace treaty with Egypt.
The map proporting to show the region controlled by king David is clearly inaccurate - Israel and its people at no point controlled that extent of territory - I could accept it as a version presented in some story or religious text if it were so marked (though I see no place in the Bible where it states that David controlled any such territory).
Would someone please give a justification for spending such a large proportion of this entry to Daniel Pipes' classification of linguistic usage of the term "Greater Israel"? And further, in what sense is he a good authority on this issue? PJ 23:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
International Hyperzionist Movement “Bead Artseinu” (For the Homeland) pursue a goal of renaissance of Greater Israel in its biblical borders from the Nile to the Euphrates. 1 2-- 83.237.222.170 15:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson#Israel
Yeah, is it really fair to say that Arab Nationalists are the ones who think there are Zionists who want this? It seems like there are some Zionists who ARE that vehement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.168.12 ( talk) 05:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I rewrote this article to shorten and clarify it. This topic is minor; please keep the article short. Emmanuelm ( talk) 14:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
In the article Land of Israel, Jaakobou and I have reached the three revert point and request your opinion. Briefly:
The Likud calls this territory "Land of Israel". Hence, this issue is relevant to that article. In an attempt to convince Jaakobou, I quoted three sources, including Israel's PM Olmert, then US SoS James Baker, and NYT editorialist Ethan Bronner, all using this expression. Jaakobou reverted this text too. Without resorting to a formal RFC, I invite you to voice your opinion on the subject. Please post your comments in Talk:Land of Israel. Emmanuelm ( talk) 18:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
On its website ( http://www.nswjbd.org/) the New South Wales Jewish Board of Deputies has a page on the Geography of Israel. It is the only reference in the article where an organisation purporting to represent a significant group of Jews outside Israel (more than 45,00 in New South Wales) has expressed a view on what constitutes Israel. I tried to make the paragraph I added as bland as possible. I agree that the inclusion of the reference to the article by Beinart may have been unnecessary.
The fact that the Board has expressed a view is a useful addition to the article. Trahelliven ( talk) 23:33, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Strike
It is true that in its website the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies does not use the term Greater Israel. However what its website appears to include in the term Israel is identical with what is called Greater Israel in paragraph 1 of the article, i.e. State of Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip.
Sean.hoyland
The websites of two other constituents of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry ( http://www.ecaj.org.au/) appear to take the same view of what constitutes Israel as the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies, i.e. those of Western Australia ( http://www.nswjbd.org/Jewish-Community-Council-of-Western-Australia-INC-/default.aspx) and South Australia ( http://www.nswjbd.org/Jewish-Community-Council-of-South-Australia/default.aspx). New South Wales, Western Australia and South Australia together contain approximately half the Jewish population of Australia. The opinion of the representatives of such a large number of Jews must be significant. Further this is not original research: I am just reporting what is on three websites. Trahelliven ( talk) 07:56, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Greater Israel's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "haaretz":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:28, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
The maps contain far more information, and more specific information, than the words and the sources. They may be original research, or simply taken from a source not cited. WP:NOR. The editor who uploaded them has apparently left Wikipedia. The maps should be removed or replace. Sfarney ( talk) 11:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
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Citation needed. Half of search results are the conspiracy version, anyway. -- 95.90.219.98 ( talk) 09:33, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
In an online debate on February 8th of 2021 about Israeli policies, linguist and activist Noam Chomsky and Israeli rights activist Rudy Rochman spent a significant portion of their time trying to resolve their conflicting notions of what is usually meant by the term "Greater Israel".
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Reference 3 is producing a display error due to improper formatting. Please replace the existing citation template with this:
<ref>{{Cite book|last=Morris|first=Benny|author-link=Benny Morris|title=Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-1998|publisher=Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group |year=2011 |isbn=9780307788054 |page=138 Quote: "No Zionist can forgo the smallest portion of the Land Of Israel. [A] Jewish state in part [of Palestine] is not an end, but a beginning. … Our possession is important not only for itself … through this we increase our power, and every increase in power facilitates getting hold of the country in its entirety. Establishing a [small] state … will serve as a very potent lever in our historical effort to redeem the whole country"}}</ref>
Thank you. Basketcase2022 ( talk) 21:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
In academia Hillel Weiss, a professor at Bar-Ilan University, has promoted the "necessity" of rebuilding the Temple and of Jewish rule over Greater Israel.[20][21][dead link][22]
None of these links say this.
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under the first image, the word "halachaic" is used. The proper word is halachic. Hereiszee ( talk) 16:52, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The Bible also talks profusely about why the jewish people WOULD LOSE that promised land, and for what reasons, the 2 destructions of Jerusalem (last one in 70 a.D. at the hand of the Romans, event prophesied in advance by none other than Jesus Christ), says when they would recover it, and the huge battle of Armageddon that is to come where they will be punished yet again until a REMNANT finally understands who their Messiah was/is.. Nowhere in this Wikipedia article is specified all that, and it should be. Tell us what was promised, but also tell us WHY THEY LOST IT, and reference the very specific biblical quotes. So, again, we know roughly from the Bible the geographic location of that promised land, but the Bible is also VERY SPECIFIC, both in Old Testament and New Testament, why they LOST IT. Spytrdr ( talk) 11:13, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
The Israeli flag controversy section includes this sentence:
However, both Zionists and Anti-Zionists have debunked this [claim].
To say they have "debunked" the alternative interpretation of the symbolism of those stripes (as a possible from-the-Nile-to-the-Euphrates dog whistle) is blatant POV. They have certainly denied this, but to say they have "debunked" this is charged language and highly partisan POV-pushing. "Debunked" is also {{not in source}}. "Deny" is in the cited source.
NB: The cited source meanwhile is highly partisan, which to its credit it discloses on its
about page, q.v.:
"The Middle East Forum, a think tank founded in 1994 by Daniel Pipes, promotes American interests in the Middle East and protects Western values from Middle Eastern threats. In the Middle East, we focus on ways to defeat radical Islam; work for Palestinian acceptance of Israel; develop strategies to contain Iran; and deal with advancing anarchy. Domestically, the Forum emphasizes the danger of lawful Islamism; protects the freedoms of anti-Islamist authors, and activists; and works to improve Middle East studies."
It is not clear that a source this strongly partisan would be accepted for any other topic, and one might ask why it is acceptable here. It seems dubious at best that a similarly strongly partisan source would be accepted if beholden to the opposite POV.
Worse, the way that sentence attributes the action of "debunking" is very wishy-washy and potentially misleading: Upon a cursory reading, "both Zionists and Anti-Zionists" would suggest everybody involved in the dispute. But actually, it's entirely unclear, and neither explicitly stated nor cited whether only some Zionists and some anti-Zionists have "debunked" (denied) the claim, whether a majority of each respective group has "debunked" (denied) the claim, or whether indeed this sentence means to say all significant Zionists and anti-Zionists "debunk" (deny) the claim. If the latter was intended here, then that's clearly false: The very fact there is a controversy means that at the very least some anti-Zionists embrace the view that this is a dog whistle corresponding to the beliefs of some Zionists. Of course, by its very nature, the essential elements of the dispute at least run very close to conspiracy theory,
Russell's teapot, and questions of
falsifiability and
proving a negative. However, the current phrasing is highly partisan towards one view, and this high partisanship has been in that section from
its inception. When I read "debunked", I suspected someone had edited that in later, but that's not the case: The original contributor of that section used this POV language.
ReadOnlyAccount (
talk) 15:12, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
PS: For an example how the same ground can be covered much better, this section (of another article) addresses a closely related matter, and as of this writing covers the topic without any such blatant POV-pushing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ReadOnlyAccount ( talk • contribs) 15:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
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It seems like the article discusses modern Israeli politics, but clearly it refers to the time of the Irgun and the British mandate. -- GHcool 05:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
-G
User:Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg claims there was never a belief by any Jewish leader that Israel should include land from the nile to the euphrates, that was pure propaganda. Chapter V of Lustick's excellent book and the writings of Avraham Stern himself give the lie to this assertion. — Charles P._ (Mirv) 02:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
A few may have invoked the passage in a speech or two, but no leader, mainstream or fringe actually supported Israel existed from the nile to the euphrates, the most hardline only supported including part of Jordan and a small portion of Syria, but today not even fringe extremists support this, your previous edit was extremely misleading.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 04:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
-- Gabi S. 10:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
While I agree with you that he only had a few followers, I still think he was a signifigant figure. Perhaps we could put more emphasis on justs how much he was on the fringe.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 11:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
"Ok, I'm not trying to suggest anyone in Israel wants the border". There's nothign wrong in wanting it - but no one in Israel wants to starts wars in order to get them. That's the difference. Amoruso 18:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
this is racist nonsense
The map is extreamly innacurate. The "river of Egypt" is the El- Arish river, not the Nile. The eastern border DOES NOT include all the Euphrates but only the very northern part.
River of Egypt: Gen. 15 NAHAR Mitsrayyim = NILE
Num. 34 NAKHAL Mitsrayyim = Brook of Egypt ending in the Mediteranean Sea at El-Arish, the original southern border of Erets Yirael and Djund Falastin until the British redrew the border in favor of Egypt.
These maps are in controversy because they represent original research and have no sources. Sfarney ( talk) 19:45, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
To the best if my knowledge, wadi el-Arish to the edge of the Euphrates is the grandest Jewish idea, as those were the borders of Solomonic Israel, and indeed the largest natural borders for the western crescent. The Baathist idea doesn't jive with geography - all states included the Nile or Euphrates river valleys; I'm not aware of any state which just included the length of one bank. The maps should clearly differentiate between the Baathist idea and the Jewish irredentist ideas. As it stands now, a quick glance could leave a reader with an incorrect idea as to the actual irredentist position. Perhaps introducing a map of Western Palestine and the Transjordan, maybe with the West Bank and Gaza Strip outlined, in addition [and above] the current map, would more clearly convey the idea. Cheers, Tewfik Talk 21:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
--- The major problem with the map is that the key is wrong. The red, orange, and yellow area are the anti-zionist definitions. The red and orange area is sort of what Betar claimed should be the boundary of Israel back in the 1920s (They never laid claim to the Sinai, and their proposed boundary did extend to both sides of the Jordan River but not the whole "Trans-Jordan" (now the country of Jordan). And, to those who currently preach of "Greater Israel" today basically mean the current recognized boundaries of the State of Israel, plus the West Bank (sometimes referred to as "Judea and Samaria") and possibly the Golan Heights (although this is doubtful).
The truth is I'm not so sure that the article should include "anti-zionist" definitions, nor even the Betar definition since this was a proposal in the pre-Israel days and has never been referred to since Independence. I think it adds confusion about the term Greater Israel.
To understand the concept of Greater Israel today, you need to understand that the historic land of Israel was more connected to the hills of the West Bank than to the coastal land that present day Israel now occupies. To most advocates of Greater Israel, they see the West Bank as "historic Israel", and therefore must be made part of the state.
Since it had little historical relationship to ancient Israel, the Sinai never had much attraction to advocates of Greater Israel except as buffer territory, and probably was the reason it was so easily given up for a peace treaty with Egypt.
The map proporting to show the region controlled by king David is clearly inaccurate - Israel and its people at no point controlled that extent of territory - I could accept it as a version presented in some story or religious text if it were so marked (though I see no place in the Bible where it states that David controlled any such territory).
Would someone please give a justification for spending such a large proportion of this entry to Daniel Pipes' classification of linguistic usage of the term "Greater Israel"? And further, in what sense is he a good authority on this issue? PJ 23:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
International Hyperzionist Movement “Bead Artseinu” (For the Homeland) pursue a goal of renaissance of Greater Israel in its biblical borders from the Nile to the Euphrates. 1 2-- 83.237.222.170 15:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson#Israel
Yeah, is it really fair to say that Arab Nationalists are the ones who think there are Zionists who want this? It seems like there are some Zionists who ARE that vehement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.168.12 ( talk) 05:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I rewrote this article to shorten and clarify it. This topic is minor; please keep the article short. Emmanuelm ( talk) 14:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
In the article Land of Israel, Jaakobou and I have reached the three revert point and request your opinion. Briefly:
The Likud calls this territory "Land of Israel". Hence, this issue is relevant to that article. In an attempt to convince Jaakobou, I quoted three sources, including Israel's PM Olmert, then US SoS James Baker, and NYT editorialist Ethan Bronner, all using this expression. Jaakobou reverted this text too. Without resorting to a formal RFC, I invite you to voice your opinion on the subject. Please post your comments in Talk:Land of Israel. Emmanuelm ( talk) 18:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
On its website ( http://www.nswjbd.org/) the New South Wales Jewish Board of Deputies has a page on the Geography of Israel. It is the only reference in the article where an organisation purporting to represent a significant group of Jews outside Israel (more than 45,00 in New South Wales) has expressed a view on what constitutes Israel. I tried to make the paragraph I added as bland as possible. I agree that the inclusion of the reference to the article by Beinart may have been unnecessary.
The fact that the Board has expressed a view is a useful addition to the article. Trahelliven ( talk) 23:33, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Strike
It is true that in its website the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies does not use the term Greater Israel. However what its website appears to include in the term Israel is identical with what is called Greater Israel in paragraph 1 of the article, i.e. State of Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip.
Sean.hoyland
The websites of two other constituents of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry ( http://www.ecaj.org.au/) appear to take the same view of what constitutes Israel as the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies, i.e. those of Western Australia ( http://www.nswjbd.org/Jewish-Community-Council-of-Western-Australia-INC-/default.aspx) and South Australia ( http://www.nswjbd.org/Jewish-Community-Council-of-South-Australia/default.aspx). New South Wales, Western Australia and South Australia together contain approximately half the Jewish population of Australia. The opinion of the representatives of such a large number of Jews must be significant. Further this is not original research: I am just reporting what is on three websites. Trahelliven ( talk) 07:56, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Greater Israel's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "haaretz":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:28, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
The maps contain far more information, and more specific information, than the words and the sources. They may be original research, or simply taken from a source not cited. WP:NOR. The editor who uploaded them has apparently left Wikipedia. The maps should be removed or replace. Sfarney ( talk) 11:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Greater Israel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Citation needed. Half of search results are the conspiracy version, anyway. -- 95.90.219.98 ( talk) 09:33, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
In an online debate on February 8th of 2021 about Israeli policies, linguist and activist Noam Chomsky and Israeli rights activist Rudy Rochman spent a significant portion of their time trying to resolve their conflicting notions of what is usually meant by the term "Greater Israel".
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Reference 3 is producing a display error due to improper formatting. Please replace the existing citation template with this:
<ref>{{Cite book|last=Morris|first=Benny|author-link=Benny Morris|title=Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-1998|publisher=Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group |year=2011 |isbn=9780307788054 |page=138 Quote: "No Zionist can forgo the smallest portion of the Land Of Israel. [A] Jewish state in part [of Palestine] is not an end, but a beginning. … Our possession is important not only for itself … through this we increase our power, and every increase in power facilitates getting hold of the country in its entirety. Establishing a [small] state … will serve as a very potent lever in our historical effort to redeem the whole country"}}</ref>
Thank you. Basketcase2022 ( talk) 21:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
In academia Hillel Weiss, a professor at Bar-Ilan University, has promoted the "necessity" of rebuilding the Temple and of Jewish rule over Greater Israel.[20][21][dead link][22]
None of these links say this.
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under the first image, the word "halachaic" is used. The proper word is halachic. Hereiszee ( talk) 16:52, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The Bible also talks profusely about why the jewish people WOULD LOSE that promised land, and for what reasons, the 2 destructions of Jerusalem (last one in 70 a.D. at the hand of the Romans, event prophesied in advance by none other than Jesus Christ), says when they would recover it, and the huge battle of Armageddon that is to come where they will be punished yet again until a REMNANT finally understands who their Messiah was/is.. Nowhere in this Wikipedia article is specified all that, and it should be. Tell us what was promised, but also tell us WHY THEY LOST IT, and reference the very specific biblical quotes. So, again, we know roughly from the Bible the geographic location of that promised land, but the Bible is also VERY SPECIFIC, both in Old Testament and New Testament, why they LOST IT. Spytrdr ( talk) 11:13, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
The Israeli flag controversy section includes this sentence:
However, both Zionists and Anti-Zionists have debunked this [claim].
To say they have "debunked" the alternative interpretation of the symbolism of those stripes (as a possible from-the-Nile-to-the-Euphrates dog whistle) is blatant POV. They have certainly denied this, but to say they have "debunked" this is charged language and highly partisan POV-pushing. "Debunked" is also {{not in source}}. "Deny" is in the cited source.
NB: The cited source meanwhile is highly partisan, which to its credit it discloses on its
about page, q.v.:
"The Middle East Forum, a think tank founded in 1994 by Daniel Pipes, promotes American interests in the Middle East and protects Western values from Middle Eastern threats. In the Middle East, we focus on ways to defeat radical Islam; work for Palestinian acceptance of Israel; develop strategies to contain Iran; and deal with advancing anarchy. Domestically, the Forum emphasizes the danger of lawful Islamism; protects the freedoms of anti-Islamist authors, and activists; and works to improve Middle East studies."
It is not clear that a source this strongly partisan would be accepted for any other topic, and one might ask why it is acceptable here. It seems dubious at best that a similarly strongly partisan source would be accepted if beholden to the opposite POV.
Worse, the way that sentence attributes the action of "debunking" is very wishy-washy and potentially misleading: Upon a cursory reading, "both Zionists and Anti-Zionists" would suggest everybody involved in the dispute. But actually, it's entirely unclear, and neither explicitly stated nor cited whether only some Zionists and some anti-Zionists have "debunked" (denied) the claim, whether a majority of each respective group has "debunked" (denied) the claim, or whether indeed this sentence means to say all significant Zionists and anti-Zionists "debunk" (deny) the claim. If the latter was intended here, then that's clearly false: The very fact there is a controversy means that at the very least some anti-Zionists embrace the view that this is a dog whistle corresponding to the beliefs of some Zionists. Of course, by its very nature, the essential elements of the dispute at least run very close to conspiracy theory,
Russell's teapot, and questions of
falsifiability and
proving a negative. However, the current phrasing is highly partisan towards one view, and this high partisanship has been in that section from
its inception. When I read "debunked", I suspected someone had edited that in later, but that's not the case: The original contributor of that section used this POV language.
ReadOnlyAccount (
talk) 15:12, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
PS: For an example how the same ground can be covered much better, this section (of another article) addresses a closely related matter, and as of this writing covers the topic without any such blatant POV-pushing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ReadOnlyAccount ( talk • contribs) 15:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)