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Again, there is absolutely NO REASON to place this section under that subheading; it properly belongs under "Description," because it deals with descriptions of the physical likeness.
If this is a so-called "alternative theory," then someone please kindly state for me the corollary theory -- with citations. Otherwise, it's going back under "Description." Deeceevoice 17:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I removed a couple of equal signs and now the Ethnicity section is a SEPERATE section than the Alternative Theories. If someone else wants to force the Sphinx's ethnicity to be itself an "alternate" theory, they will have to bring a compelling reason to do so first. We all know that the racial issue regarding the Egyptians is not "alternative".... this isn't about Aliens, or Atlantis. -- Zaphnathpaaneah 18:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
And how is it a compromise? Your insistence -- and that of others -- on placing it under an "alternative theory" as if it's some crackpot notion, designed to discredit the fundamental and obvious blackness of the image was the central issue. And you were flat-out wrong. As I stated before, there was absolutely no justification for it being placed under that subhead -- except, IMO, those with a problem with what its existence implies: a black Egypt. And you persist in calling it a "theory" -- when it is no such thing. The bottom line is that the information I introduced -- along with a link to a very Africoid photographic image -- is well-documented, and it stands. *x* And you haven't produced a scintilla of evidence to support your previous position. "Compromise"? Hardly. Deeceevoice 18:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
And who the hell called you "racist"? Exactly where have I used that word in this piece? And where have I used it to describe you? Further, you earlier charged me with purposefully inserting POV material into articles related to ancient Egypt here on this page -- and then proceeded to go along with a highly POV categorization of the information about the sphinx's ethnicity as an "alternative theory." And who is engaging in POV edits here? Certainly not me. You make up a charge I did not level -- and still you haven't even tried to produce any justification for sticking the info about the Sphinx's clearly Africoid appearance (which I had to fight to include at all) at the bottom of the page under some b.s. title that essentially labels it a crackpot theory. No. You will not use some trumped-up label of your own making to distract from that central issue. Your edit in this regard was POV here and totally without merit. Not mine. There was no compromise here -- because your position was grossly incorrect and decidedly POV. Deeceevoice 20:55, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
And who started off on the wrong foot here with the catty/b*tchy allusions to the Arb Com, etc? Certainly not I. And you're the one making the POV edits here -- again, not I. You wanna complain that you've somehow been wronged? Tell it to someone who cares. "Racist"? Ha! You didn't read it from me. But POV? Hell, yeah. And "... written less negatively"? What? Further, you reverted my edits, claiming some sort of bogus "consensus" which was never reached; it was simply two separate editors with an agenda -- and, like you, absolutely no justification -- ganging up/tag teaming to revert my edits to avoid a 3RR violation. You should know better. Deeceevoice 20:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
What? Your only response is to complain that I interrupted your comments? ROTFLMAO. Deeceevoice 23:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
"This issue of his ethnicity is far more appropriate under the section regarding his origin."
I am pasting my comments here as well. There is no consensus if the claims are based on detective Domingo, who also thinks Khafra is "proto-European"!!! Find a mainstream Egyptologist who corroborates this stuff. It shouldn't be hard if true, since several Pharaohs are known to have both Egyptian-Nubian origins — Zerida 22:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I'd just like to mention that I am not part of any group against *whoever* and am not voting. My edit history here and in the article back up that assertion. My wish is to get this article at least somewhat stable compared to how it has been.
My view is that we need to work from a basic layout agreement and then work on the details of each section. Going back and forth from the details to the Big Picture is only making this article a much more problematic mess than it needs to be.
It's just my opinion, but IMO it's at least a planned strategy instead of reverts of details as well as major layout revisions, rinse, lather, repeat over and over again.
We are close to getting a basic layout settled. Let's get that done and then deal with separate section details that might be disputed.
"This issue of his ethnicity is far more appropriate under the section regarding his origin."
I agree with your view on this matter regarding placing it under the origin. The article flows well and more coherently with this overall ordering of the sections.
The ethnicity of the sphinx, or anybody for that matter is not something to be considered as an "alternative theory". I will hold vigil on the article and restore the position indefinitely and report the three revert rule to the moderators. His ethnicity is a part of his origin and background, it is not a part of an unrelated "theory". I do not care if the user reverting is a modern day Egyptian or not. Being a white american does not make one an expert on Native American history. -- Zaphnathpaaneah 00:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Please work out your differences on the talk page instead of edit warring · Katefan0 (scribble)/ poll 01:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
We need quotes from verifiable sources. Below are some of the key sources for the debate:
"Ethnicity in archeology" by K. Kris Hirst. This is an excellent introduction to the question and problems of archeology and ethnicity, with an extensive list of modern sources. It would be wonderful to see modern academic sources such as these used in the article. Does anyone have access to these books?
For pro-Black views on the Sphinx's ethnicity, why is there no mention of the pioneering works of George James's Stolen Legacy, and Cheikh Anta Diop's African Origins of Civilization? Much of the current article seems to be taking quotes that originally appeared in Jame's book. There is also Molefi Asante's Afrocentricity. A more recent work by (white) author Martin Bernal Black Athena: The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilization is also probably relevant. Certainly all of these books mention and discuss the Sphinx?
There are people who do not agree with the Afrocentric view. These include Mary Lefkowitz who has written a number of essays countering Afrocentricism ("The Afrocentric Myth" in New Republic), and the book Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History, and a response to Martin Bernal's book above in Black Athena Revisited. Others who may have something to say regarding the Sphinx include Diane Ravitch, Henry Louis Gates who called Afrocentricism "Romantic and chauvinistic" and Issac Julien (critic) has been critical of it in Black Pop Culture calling Afrocentricism "homophobic" and "nationalistic". Since the Sphinx is a key part of the debate I'm some or all of them discuss it somewhere in their works.
-- Stbalbach 04:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Neither Afrocentrism nor Eurocentrism has anything to do with the ethnicity of the sphinx itself. Where the hell in this article has anything been said about Afrocentrism? And who are the "Afrocentric" historians being quoted?" This is utter bull -- and a classic example of the way Wikipedia works to reinforce the lies perpetrated by Eurocentrists. And the usual, throwaway disclaimer about how the page protection doesn't "endorse" one view or another is just pro forma. The fact is the page is frozen in the version that is unencyclopedic, POV and decidedly not the consensus of the current editors. Deeceevoice 06:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll repost here a few comments I made earlier in this regard:
I find it amusing that even Eurocentrists readily will admit that dynastic Egypt was black in its beginnings, but some become positively apoplectic when a monument of a black man dated, at the latest, to the Old Kingdom (and possibly earlier) is accurately described as "Negroid." Why is that -- when any respected scholar these days understands that dynastic Egypt certainly at least in its beginnings was, indeed, black African? And, hell. Not even Afrocentric scholars contend that dynastic Egypt was an all-black civilization all the time. But assuming the perfectly logical and evident presence of black people in an African nation, what's the big deal about describing a single monument/structure accurately as that of a black man? Somebody please 'splain dat 2 me. deeceevoice 15:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me. Discernment. This article is about a single monument. [In this context, i]t doesn't have jack to do with the race of the ancient Egyptians -- any more than an article about, say, statues of flying pigs in Cincinatti automatically says that Cincinnati (or the U.S. at large) is a nation populated by flying swine. What about that is so hard for you to grasp? Now if people (correctly) want to on their own extrapolate from the existence of a huge, honking statue in North Africa glorifying an obviously very Africoid person that ancient Egypt was black, hey, I'm certainly not going to stop them. Because it's true. :p But nowhere -- nowhere -- does the article make that assertion. So much for that "alternative theories" nonsense. Deeceevoice 21:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The implication is there, the elephant is in the room. You can't just say the Sphinx is Black without addressing the implications, at the very minimum but pointing to the controversy article. The only reason you don't want the controversy article linked too in this article is so you can say the sphinx's ethnicity is non-controversial and move it out of the theories section. -- Stbalbach 22:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
The ethnicity of the Giza sphinx is not a subject of controversy. Again, there is no credible authority I know of -- have you found any? -- that states it is anything other than a representation of a black man. The controversy is about the ethnicity of ancient Egyptians. This article is about the sphinx -- again, a subject about the ethnicity of which there is no credible, informed controversy. It's black. Readers who wish to read about the controversy of the race of ancient Egyptians and Afrocentrism easily can go to those articles, where such matters are dealt with. Deeceevoice 23:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
There is no reason to believe that the Giza sphinx represents anything other than an ancient ethnic Egyptian - as even the most cursory observation reveals. The amount of space devoted to alternative/conspiracy/alien theories already takes up far to much space in this article, and is in need of some drastic surgery. -- Gene_poole 04:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The information presented about the ethnicity of the image itself is that it has been described as decidedly "Negroid" throughout history. Some of those accounts are presented in the article and cited. The image also has been analyzed by one of the most well-known (at the time) forensics artists in the U.S., utilizing his professional expertise and computer graphics to reconstruct the head. Further, a noted and well-published Harvard professor in orthodontics has concurred in the forensic artist's findings, as well as supported the means by which those findings were reached. Both accounts were printed in the New York Times. These things are not disputed. This information has been presented in a perfectly dispassionate manner and sourced.
The information about the appearance of the Giza sphinx belongs with other, similar information about the sphinx's appearance. It is not a "theory," and certainly not an "alternative theory," such as are the matters of water erosion, "lost civilizations," et cetera. The information, again, springs from objective observation and careful, even scientific, analysis and deduction.
Those who have sought to place the information under the subhead "Alternative theories" have done so with clearly POV motivations and have advanced absolutely no credible rationale for their position. The arguments about Afrocentrism are merely a smokescreen. There is nothing Afrocentric about the information presented in the article; it is objective and indisputable. From a purely journalistic point of view, the information clearly belongs elsewhere. It's a no-brainer. Again, even if those who have opposed the inclusion of this information from the beginning manage to produce credible, sourced, scientific information which says the Giza sphinx is not the image of a black man, that information still would not belong under "Alternative theories." This matter, again, is all about what the monument looks like -- its description.
IMO, the request for page protection was utterly disingenuous. It was made by User:That Guy, From That Show! -- after he agreed to what he termed a "compromise" here, on this very page -- and with absolutely no indication that such was his intent. Such an action was clearly, IMO, in bad faith. User:Zerida's subsequent arbitrary and disruptive revert easily could have been dealt with without resorting to such a measure.
The fact that the article has been frozen in its current unencyclopedic and POV state is, IMO, emblematic of the anti-black bias of this website when it comes to such matters. I have not used this term on this page before, but I will use it now. Wikipedia is racist to the core. This is a perfect object lesson in how its systemic bias works. When obstructionist elements cannot refute objective information, they work to label it, mischaracterize it, smear it. "Afrocentrism" is one of those red herrings that gets tossed around a lot here. This is unmitigated bull -- and emblematic of the racist dysfunctionality of this website. And this is supposed to be an encyclopedia -- and one that Jimbo Wales wrote in his funds appeal that he wants to make available to children in Africa? ROTFLMAO. *x* Deeceevoice 06:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Your post isn't "[sneer] emblamatic [sic]" of anything -- except, IMO, poor judgment on your part. It's just a smart-aleck remark that wasn't appreciated. Let me quote editor Yom's edite note when he removed the image: "I'm going to be bold here and remove the 'Wrong Version' image to minimize the antagonism between the disputing parties." I notice you didn't reinsert it. Did you? Why? Because it was inappropriate and inflammatory. Let me give you some advice: if it's not constructive, adds nothing to the discussion and inflames tensions, then keep it to yourself. And that applies to sysops, admins, etc. And that means you, too, Crypto. And, yes. What happened with the lockdown of the page in the POV version demonstrates precisely how racist and dysfunctional this site is. Deeceevoice 00:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Good grief, Crypto! :p I did not say the person who locked down the page, even that they had ulterior motives. You should learn to read what a post says -- not what you think it says, or want it to say in order to confirm certain assumptions. "You typically make implausible leaps of reasoning that suit your worldview: e.g." What? Like that the Shinx is black? ROTFLMAO. What? Try again.
And your "so you're another one" is your only explanation for deliberately inserting that stupid, inflammatory tag? (So inappropriate, by the way, that you didn't contest it when another editor removed it.)
Finally, you're some white guy half my age. You treat a "grave" charge of systemic bias flippantly, mockingly and dismissively. It's inflammatory -- so much so that another editor removes your post. It showed exceedingly poor judgment, Crypto. And you really think you're qualified to tell me what I should or should not find racist? In your dreams. Based on your conduct here, you clearly don't have a clue in such matters. Deeceevoice 08:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The WP:RFP page is not to be used to discuss users, etc... so I will reply here instead.
First of all, I never introduced "Afrocentrism" here (cite, good luck).
Second, it's not exactly a big secret that you are the one who violated 3RR to edit-war your view of what the page should be as well as pretending to want a consensus about this article.
The first is easy to prove by editors doing a text search on this discussion page. The second is also easy to prove. You did violate 3RR and is what started what turned into the situation we are in now. Claiming that you don't know about 3RR violations when you are the one guilty of it is very deceitful and doesn't help the situation.
Those are facts that can't be avoided.
You have now claimed that it is "purported conduct". Yes, I can refute your claim and will be responding shortly.
Please do not chop my post into pieces and obfuscate this time-line. It needs to remain intact for clarity. Quote and reply below this post like any other comment.
Deeceevoice has denied that there is evidence regarding my declaration that Deeceevoice has violated 3RR. This 3RR is a part of her attempt to edit-war her own version of the article and she has been deceptive about wanting a consensus as well. This conduct sparked a revert/edit war that escalated and was eventually stopped by article protection [7].
I have kept the editorializing to a minimum and have provided a cite for every comment so that no one must take "my word for it". Readers can directly view the events.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Again, there is absolutely NO REASON to place this section under that subheading; it properly belongs under "Description," because it deals with descriptions of the physical likeness.
If this is a so-called "alternative theory," then someone please kindly state for me the corollary theory -- with citations. Otherwise, it's going back under "Description." Deeceevoice 17:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I removed a couple of equal signs and now the Ethnicity section is a SEPERATE section than the Alternative Theories. If someone else wants to force the Sphinx's ethnicity to be itself an "alternate" theory, they will have to bring a compelling reason to do so first. We all know that the racial issue regarding the Egyptians is not "alternative".... this isn't about Aliens, or Atlantis. -- Zaphnathpaaneah 18:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
And how is it a compromise? Your insistence -- and that of others -- on placing it under an "alternative theory" as if it's some crackpot notion, designed to discredit the fundamental and obvious blackness of the image was the central issue. And you were flat-out wrong. As I stated before, there was absolutely no justification for it being placed under that subhead -- except, IMO, those with a problem with what its existence implies: a black Egypt. And you persist in calling it a "theory" -- when it is no such thing. The bottom line is that the information I introduced -- along with a link to a very Africoid photographic image -- is well-documented, and it stands. *x* And you haven't produced a scintilla of evidence to support your previous position. "Compromise"? Hardly. Deeceevoice 18:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
And who the hell called you "racist"? Exactly where have I used that word in this piece? And where have I used it to describe you? Further, you earlier charged me with purposefully inserting POV material into articles related to ancient Egypt here on this page -- and then proceeded to go along with a highly POV categorization of the information about the sphinx's ethnicity as an "alternative theory." And who is engaging in POV edits here? Certainly not me. You make up a charge I did not level -- and still you haven't even tried to produce any justification for sticking the info about the Sphinx's clearly Africoid appearance (which I had to fight to include at all) at the bottom of the page under some b.s. title that essentially labels it a crackpot theory. No. You will not use some trumped-up label of your own making to distract from that central issue. Your edit in this regard was POV here and totally without merit. Not mine. There was no compromise here -- because your position was grossly incorrect and decidedly POV. Deeceevoice 20:55, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
And who started off on the wrong foot here with the catty/b*tchy allusions to the Arb Com, etc? Certainly not I. And you're the one making the POV edits here -- again, not I. You wanna complain that you've somehow been wronged? Tell it to someone who cares. "Racist"? Ha! You didn't read it from me. But POV? Hell, yeah. And "... written less negatively"? What? Further, you reverted my edits, claiming some sort of bogus "consensus" which was never reached; it was simply two separate editors with an agenda -- and, like you, absolutely no justification -- ganging up/tag teaming to revert my edits to avoid a 3RR violation. You should know better. Deeceevoice 20:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
What? Your only response is to complain that I interrupted your comments? ROTFLMAO. Deeceevoice 23:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
"This issue of his ethnicity is far more appropriate under the section regarding his origin."
I am pasting my comments here as well. There is no consensus if the claims are based on detective Domingo, who also thinks Khafra is "proto-European"!!! Find a mainstream Egyptologist who corroborates this stuff. It shouldn't be hard if true, since several Pharaohs are known to have both Egyptian-Nubian origins — Zerida 22:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I'd just like to mention that I am not part of any group against *whoever* and am not voting. My edit history here and in the article back up that assertion. My wish is to get this article at least somewhat stable compared to how it has been.
My view is that we need to work from a basic layout agreement and then work on the details of each section. Going back and forth from the details to the Big Picture is only making this article a much more problematic mess than it needs to be.
It's just my opinion, but IMO it's at least a planned strategy instead of reverts of details as well as major layout revisions, rinse, lather, repeat over and over again.
We are close to getting a basic layout settled. Let's get that done and then deal with separate section details that might be disputed.
"This issue of his ethnicity is far more appropriate under the section regarding his origin."
I agree with your view on this matter regarding placing it under the origin. The article flows well and more coherently with this overall ordering of the sections.
The ethnicity of the sphinx, or anybody for that matter is not something to be considered as an "alternative theory". I will hold vigil on the article and restore the position indefinitely and report the three revert rule to the moderators. His ethnicity is a part of his origin and background, it is not a part of an unrelated "theory". I do not care if the user reverting is a modern day Egyptian or not. Being a white american does not make one an expert on Native American history. -- Zaphnathpaaneah 00:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Please work out your differences on the talk page instead of edit warring · Katefan0 (scribble)/ poll 01:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
We need quotes from verifiable sources. Below are some of the key sources for the debate:
"Ethnicity in archeology" by K. Kris Hirst. This is an excellent introduction to the question and problems of archeology and ethnicity, with an extensive list of modern sources. It would be wonderful to see modern academic sources such as these used in the article. Does anyone have access to these books?
For pro-Black views on the Sphinx's ethnicity, why is there no mention of the pioneering works of George James's Stolen Legacy, and Cheikh Anta Diop's African Origins of Civilization? Much of the current article seems to be taking quotes that originally appeared in Jame's book. There is also Molefi Asante's Afrocentricity. A more recent work by (white) author Martin Bernal Black Athena: The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilization is also probably relevant. Certainly all of these books mention and discuss the Sphinx?
There are people who do not agree with the Afrocentric view. These include Mary Lefkowitz who has written a number of essays countering Afrocentricism ("The Afrocentric Myth" in New Republic), and the book Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History, and a response to Martin Bernal's book above in Black Athena Revisited. Others who may have something to say regarding the Sphinx include Diane Ravitch, Henry Louis Gates who called Afrocentricism "Romantic and chauvinistic" and Issac Julien (critic) has been critical of it in Black Pop Culture calling Afrocentricism "homophobic" and "nationalistic". Since the Sphinx is a key part of the debate I'm some or all of them discuss it somewhere in their works.
-- Stbalbach 04:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Neither Afrocentrism nor Eurocentrism has anything to do with the ethnicity of the sphinx itself. Where the hell in this article has anything been said about Afrocentrism? And who are the "Afrocentric" historians being quoted?" This is utter bull -- and a classic example of the way Wikipedia works to reinforce the lies perpetrated by Eurocentrists. And the usual, throwaway disclaimer about how the page protection doesn't "endorse" one view or another is just pro forma. The fact is the page is frozen in the version that is unencyclopedic, POV and decidedly not the consensus of the current editors. Deeceevoice 06:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll repost here a few comments I made earlier in this regard:
I find it amusing that even Eurocentrists readily will admit that dynastic Egypt was black in its beginnings, but some become positively apoplectic when a monument of a black man dated, at the latest, to the Old Kingdom (and possibly earlier) is accurately described as "Negroid." Why is that -- when any respected scholar these days understands that dynastic Egypt certainly at least in its beginnings was, indeed, black African? And, hell. Not even Afrocentric scholars contend that dynastic Egypt was an all-black civilization all the time. But assuming the perfectly logical and evident presence of black people in an African nation, what's the big deal about describing a single monument/structure accurately as that of a black man? Somebody please 'splain dat 2 me. deeceevoice 15:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me. Discernment. This article is about a single monument. [In this context, i]t doesn't have jack to do with the race of the ancient Egyptians -- any more than an article about, say, statues of flying pigs in Cincinatti automatically says that Cincinnati (or the U.S. at large) is a nation populated by flying swine. What about that is so hard for you to grasp? Now if people (correctly) want to on their own extrapolate from the existence of a huge, honking statue in North Africa glorifying an obviously very Africoid person that ancient Egypt was black, hey, I'm certainly not going to stop them. Because it's true. :p But nowhere -- nowhere -- does the article make that assertion. So much for that "alternative theories" nonsense. Deeceevoice 21:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The implication is there, the elephant is in the room. You can't just say the Sphinx is Black without addressing the implications, at the very minimum but pointing to the controversy article. The only reason you don't want the controversy article linked too in this article is so you can say the sphinx's ethnicity is non-controversial and move it out of the theories section. -- Stbalbach 22:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
The ethnicity of the Giza sphinx is not a subject of controversy. Again, there is no credible authority I know of -- have you found any? -- that states it is anything other than a representation of a black man. The controversy is about the ethnicity of ancient Egyptians. This article is about the sphinx -- again, a subject about the ethnicity of which there is no credible, informed controversy. It's black. Readers who wish to read about the controversy of the race of ancient Egyptians and Afrocentrism easily can go to those articles, where such matters are dealt with. Deeceevoice 23:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
There is no reason to believe that the Giza sphinx represents anything other than an ancient ethnic Egyptian - as even the most cursory observation reveals. The amount of space devoted to alternative/conspiracy/alien theories already takes up far to much space in this article, and is in need of some drastic surgery. -- Gene_poole 04:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The information presented about the ethnicity of the image itself is that it has been described as decidedly "Negroid" throughout history. Some of those accounts are presented in the article and cited. The image also has been analyzed by one of the most well-known (at the time) forensics artists in the U.S., utilizing his professional expertise and computer graphics to reconstruct the head. Further, a noted and well-published Harvard professor in orthodontics has concurred in the forensic artist's findings, as well as supported the means by which those findings were reached. Both accounts were printed in the New York Times. These things are not disputed. This information has been presented in a perfectly dispassionate manner and sourced.
The information about the appearance of the Giza sphinx belongs with other, similar information about the sphinx's appearance. It is not a "theory," and certainly not an "alternative theory," such as are the matters of water erosion, "lost civilizations," et cetera. The information, again, springs from objective observation and careful, even scientific, analysis and deduction.
Those who have sought to place the information under the subhead "Alternative theories" have done so with clearly POV motivations and have advanced absolutely no credible rationale for their position. The arguments about Afrocentrism are merely a smokescreen. There is nothing Afrocentric about the information presented in the article; it is objective and indisputable. From a purely journalistic point of view, the information clearly belongs elsewhere. It's a no-brainer. Again, even if those who have opposed the inclusion of this information from the beginning manage to produce credible, sourced, scientific information which says the Giza sphinx is not the image of a black man, that information still would not belong under "Alternative theories." This matter, again, is all about what the monument looks like -- its description.
IMO, the request for page protection was utterly disingenuous. It was made by User:That Guy, From That Show! -- after he agreed to what he termed a "compromise" here, on this very page -- and with absolutely no indication that such was his intent. Such an action was clearly, IMO, in bad faith. User:Zerida's subsequent arbitrary and disruptive revert easily could have been dealt with without resorting to such a measure.
The fact that the article has been frozen in its current unencyclopedic and POV state is, IMO, emblematic of the anti-black bias of this website when it comes to such matters. I have not used this term on this page before, but I will use it now. Wikipedia is racist to the core. This is a perfect object lesson in how its systemic bias works. When obstructionist elements cannot refute objective information, they work to label it, mischaracterize it, smear it. "Afrocentrism" is one of those red herrings that gets tossed around a lot here. This is unmitigated bull -- and emblematic of the racist dysfunctionality of this website. And this is supposed to be an encyclopedia -- and one that Jimbo Wales wrote in his funds appeal that he wants to make available to children in Africa? ROTFLMAO. *x* Deeceevoice 06:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Your post isn't "[sneer] emblamatic [sic]" of anything -- except, IMO, poor judgment on your part. It's just a smart-aleck remark that wasn't appreciated. Let me quote editor Yom's edite note when he removed the image: "I'm going to be bold here and remove the 'Wrong Version' image to minimize the antagonism between the disputing parties." I notice you didn't reinsert it. Did you? Why? Because it was inappropriate and inflammatory. Let me give you some advice: if it's not constructive, adds nothing to the discussion and inflames tensions, then keep it to yourself. And that applies to sysops, admins, etc. And that means you, too, Crypto. And, yes. What happened with the lockdown of the page in the POV version demonstrates precisely how racist and dysfunctional this site is. Deeceevoice 00:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Good grief, Crypto! :p I did not say the person who locked down the page, even that they had ulterior motives. You should learn to read what a post says -- not what you think it says, or want it to say in order to confirm certain assumptions. "You typically make implausible leaps of reasoning that suit your worldview: e.g." What? Like that the Shinx is black? ROTFLMAO. What? Try again.
And your "so you're another one" is your only explanation for deliberately inserting that stupid, inflammatory tag? (So inappropriate, by the way, that you didn't contest it when another editor removed it.)
Finally, you're some white guy half my age. You treat a "grave" charge of systemic bias flippantly, mockingly and dismissively. It's inflammatory -- so much so that another editor removes your post. It showed exceedingly poor judgment, Crypto. And you really think you're qualified to tell me what I should or should not find racist? In your dreams. Based on your conduct here, you clearly don't have a clue in such matters. Deeceevoice 08:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The WP:RFP page is not to be used to discuss users, etc... so I will reply here instead.
First of all, I never introduced "Afrocentrism" here (cite, good luck).
Second, it's not exactly a big secret that you are the one who violated 3RR to edit-war your view of what the page should be as well as pretending to want a consensus about this article.
The first is easy to prove by editors doing a text search on this discussion page. The second is also easy to prove. You did violate 3RR and is what started what turned into the situation we are in now. Claiming that you don't know about 3RR violations when you are the one guilty of it is very deceitful and doesn't help the situation.
Those are facts that can't be avoided.
You have now claimed that it is "purported conduct". Yes, I can refute your claim and will be responding shortly.
Please do not chop my post into pieces and obfuscate this time-line. It needs to remain intact for clarity. Quote and reply below this post like any other comment.
Deeceevoice has denied that there is evidence regarding my declaration that Deeceevoice has violated 3RR. This 3RR is a part of her attempt to edit-war her own version of the article and she has been deceptive about wanting a consensus as well. This conduct sparked a revert/edit war that escalated and was eventually stopped by article protection [7].
I have kept the editorializing to a minimum and have provided a cite for every comment so that no one must take "my word for it". Readers can directly view the events.