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This is not a genre of hymnography or standard type I have ever heard of. If it is, I think we'd need a cite to establish that. Similarly, if the rest of the analysis is not OR we need that cited as well. We can't engage in original analysis here.
I cut the claim that the quote represents 5% of the hymn, since it seemed inaccurate to me. The statement about the style is also a judgment call reflecting a POV; in any translation there are stylistic decisions that must be made and it goes without saying that not all features reflected in an original language are translatable. TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Second sentence:
I don't think it is supposed to be "us" in there, because who is that, really? / Tense ( talk) 11:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Roman Catholicism is remarkable similar, with Jesus, the Virgin Mary and all the Saints. What's the difference? Aldo L ( talk) 02:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
The previous Editor didn't really qualify his statement (I don't think IMHO (in my honest opinion)}. (i.e. His objecttion, was to the Christian relationship?). The word "monotheism" is used in the article, as it should be used, and thus any discussion of monotheism is valid.
But it is nice, (I think) that monotheism doesn't wiki over to a separate article about some other religious "stuff", i.e.
monotheism. The statement is simply (implied) that the multiplicity of "gods" was being superceded by a great Hymn to the Aten. For some reason, I was thinking of
existentialism when I first saw this Talk Page response.... I am an 'existentialist', but not the type defined by the historical articles...
However, I think Humans, their human history has a major "work" of existentialism (human relationship with the world), the
Epic of Gilgamesh. I Now see that the Great Hymn to the Aten, and
Akhenaten, His re-Definition of the World he lived in, was...., the Other, Great example of Human Existentialism... I think the actual wikipedia articles on "historical" existentialism, are all probably misguided, and should be definded as 'historical'.. I think the Epic of Gilgamesh, and this great: Great Hymn to the Aten, are two examples of works, that give us a view into 'human existence', our "existential place in the universe"... (earth)...
Mmcannis (
talk)
06:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I've just deleted most of the text as copyvio from p 105 of Egypt and the Egyptians By Douglas J. Brewer, Emily Teeter [1] which ironically left out the important fact that the authors consider Atenism to be henotheism. I'm worried about the text of the hymn itself as it's almost certainly copyvio also. Dougweller ( talk) 06:19, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
As a look at the edit history shows, I've been concerned about pov issues here and I raised them at WP:NPOVN. Also some OR issues. I've tried to deal with the issue of whether this is a hymn as we understand hymns as a poem. Still figuring out what to do about the excerpt. @@@@ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller ( talk • contribs) 05:39, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Great Hymn to the Aten/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
I've found this site [http://touregypt.net/hymntoaten.htm link title] which offers a substantially longer and more intricate version of the Great Hymn. The source is dubious (a shop?) but the whole seems comprehensive. In fact, it bears a closer resemblance to psalm 104 (which may be intentional). Any egyptologists who can offer a definitive answer?
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Last edited at 05:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 16:40, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Quoting Donald B. Redford on Akhenaten is like quoting God about the Devil. Redford didn't like Akhenaten, considered him to be 'unmanly' and a 'heretical freak'. Redford belonged to the grumpy curmudgeon school of archeology. He wished Akhenaten had been one of the warrior pharaohs who put up a lot of statues and temples so Redford could write about them. Redford, who wrote a 1984 book on Akhenaten, thought of the Pharaoh as a sort of proto-hippy, a freak who wanted to revolutionize Egyptian religion and art. Also, he didn't like all the attention Akhenaten got from non-archeologists and laymen, poaching on Redford's territory. Redford doesn't want to give Akenaten credit for anything, regardless of the 'Hymn to the Sun' or the actual physical evidence of the Pharaoh's art innovations. He wants badly to see Akhenaten as a failure and a fraud, but presents little evidence to support his prejudices. Akhenaten did fail to establish permanently his Aten cult in Egypt, too many priests made good livings from the worship of many gods. He seems upset that Akhenaten's religion didn't have a social program for the poor and sick, like some forms of Christianity later did, even though the Aten religion was only going on for about 20 years, hardly enough time to develop a full-blown theology. Redford argues that the Aten was in reality Akhenaten's alter ego, symbolic of his own absolute rule. But many Pharaohs had absolute rule, which would hardly be an outlier.
In fact, all the speculation in Redford's book and the article about Akhenaten's 'Hymn to the Sun' is out of bounds and merely opinion. There's not enough evidence to say anything for sure as to whether or not the Hebrews were influenced by Akhenaten's One God, or by the Hymn to the Aten. Nevertheless, it's a mighty coincidence of convergence. Give the Pharaoh some credit for initiating something way before others did in the Near East. Philip Glass's opera 'Akhenaten' is mentioned in the article, but no mention is made of the book and 1954 American movie called, 'The Egyptian' about Akhenaten, which, no doubt to Redford's fury, posits Akhenaten as an early and misunderstood New Ager and pacifist, caught in an era when people only understood war, political maneuvers and the old gods. 47.232.145.208 ( talk) 02:57, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This is not a genre of hymnography or standard type I have ever heard of. If it is, I think we'd need a cite to establish that. Similarly, if the rest of the analysis is not OR we need that cited as well. We can't engage in original analysis here.
I cut the claim that the quote represents 5% of the hymn, since it seemed inaccurate to me. The statement about the style is also a judgment call reflecting a POV; in any translation there are stylistic decisions that must be made and it goes without saying that not all features reflected in an original language are translatable. TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Second sentence:
I don't think it is supposed to be "us" in there, because who is that, really? / Tense ( talk) 11:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Roman Catholicism is remarkable similar, with Jesus, the Virgin Mary and all the Saints. What's the difference? Aldo L ( talk) 02:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
The previous Editor didn't really qualify his statement (I don't think IMHO (in my honest opinion)}. (i.e. His objecttion, was to the Christian relationship?). The word "monotheism" is used in the article, as it should be used, and thus any discussion of monotheism is valid.
But it is nice, (I think) that monotheism doesn't wiki over to a separate article about some other religious "stuff", i.e.
monotheism. The statement is simply (implied) that the multiplicity of "gods" was being superceded by a great Hymn to the Aten. For some reason, I was thinking of
existentialism when I first saw this Talk Page response.... I am an 'existentialist', but not the type defined by the historical articles...
However, I think Humans, their human history has a major "work" of existentialism (human relationship with the world), the
Epic of Gilgamesh. I Now see that the Great Hymn to the Aten, and
Akhenaten, His re-Definition of the World he lived in, was...., the Other, Great example of Human Existentialism... I think the actual wikipedia articles on "historical" existentialism, are all probably misguided, and should be definded as 'historical'.. I think the Epic of Gilgamesh, and this great: Great Hymn to the Aten, are two examples of works, that give us a view into 'human existence', our "existential place in the universe"... (earth)...
Mmcannis (
talk)
06:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I've just deleted most of the text as copyvio from p 105 of Egypt and the Egyptians By Douglas J. Brewer, Emily Teeter [1] which ironically left out the important fact that the authors consider Atenism to be henotheism. I'm worried about the text of the hymn itself as it's almost certainly copyvio also. Dougweller ( talk) 06:19, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
As a look at the edit history shows, I've been concerned about pov issues here and I raised them at WP:NPOVN. Also some OR issues. I've tried to deal with the issue of whether this is a hymn as we understand hymns as a poem. Still figuring out what to do about the excerpt. @@@@ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller ( talk • contribs) 05:39, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Great Hymn to the Aten/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
I've found this site [http://touregypt.net/hymntoaten.htm link title] which offers a substantially longer and more intricate version of the Great Hymn. The source is dubious (a shop?) but the whole seems comprehensive. In fact, it bears a closer resemblance to psalm 104 (which may be intentional). Any egyptologists who can offer a definitive answer?
|
Last edited at 05:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 16:40, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Great Hymn to the Aten. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:42, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Quoting Donald B. Redford on Akhenaten is like quoting God about the Devil. Redford didn't like Akhenaten, considered him to be 'unmanly' and a 'heretical freak'. Redford belonged to the grumpy curmudgeon school of archeology. He wished Akhenaten had been one of the warrior pharaohs who put up a lot of statues and temples so Redford could write about them. Redford, who wrote a 1984 book on Akhenaten, thought of the Pharaoh as a sort of proto-hippy, a freak who wanted to revolutionize Egyptian religion and art. Also, he didn't like all the attention Akhenaten got from non-archeologists and laymen, poaching on Redford's territory. Redford doesn't want to give Akenaten credit for anything, regardless of the 'Hymn to the Sun' or the actual physical evidence of the Pharaoh's art innovations. He wants badly to see Akhenaten as a failure and a fraud, but presents little evidence to support his prejudices. Akhenaten did fail to establish permanently his Aten cult in Egypt, too many priests made good livings from the worship of many gods. He seems upset that Akhenaten's religion didn't have a social program for the poor and sick, like some forms of Christianity later did, even though the Aten religion was only going on for about 20 years, hardly enough time to develop a full-blown theology. Redford argues that the Aten was in reality Akhenaten's alter ego, symbolic of his own absolute rule. But many Pharaohs had absolute rule, which would hardly be an outlier.
In fact, all the speculation in Redford's book and the article about Akhenaten's 'Hymn to the Sun' is out of bounds and merely opinion. There's not enough evidence to say anything for sure as to whether or not the Hebrews were influenced by Akhenaten's One God, or by the Hymn to the Aten. Nevertheless, it's a mighty coincidence of convergence. Give the Pharaoh some credit for initiating something way before others did in the Near East. Philip Glass's opera 'Akhenaten' is mentioned in the article, but no mention is made of the book and 1954 American movie called, 'The Egyptian' about Akhenaten, which, no doubt to Redford's fury, posits Akhenaten as an early and misunderstood New Ager and pacifist, caught in an era when people only understood war, political maneuvers and the old gods. 47.232.145.208 ( talk) 02:57, 25 April 2023 (UTC)