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how did the great commision influence exploration, colonization, and the spread of free democracy?
I made some edits which attempt to remove what looked like a POV bias to me. Hope it looks OK. Happy to discuss the edits. KHM03 12:58, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I think that using the King James' Version is a mistake here. Its hard to read and not the version most coommonly used by Christians. NIV instead perhaps? 129.234.4.10 12:42, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Coomonly vs coommonly --> talk about irony! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.245.236.147 ( talk) 08:13, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
This section seems to be very POV. It should be either removed or reworded. DFH 14:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I have removed all four external links, because none of them satisfied Wikpedia criteria for inclusion. DFH 15:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I see disadvantages in wikilinking words and phrases from within a quoted Scripture passage. It gives undue emphasis, and creates a false impression that the Bible is a hypertext document. Words within Scripture quotations that require further explanation should be amplified in the main encyclopedic description paragraghs, and then linked only if necessary. DFH 15:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed Category:Christian and Jewish interfaith topics, as it seems to be not of the essence of the main article. No doubt many items in Christian theology are interfaith topics of one sort or another, but it hardly seems a sufficient reason for thus categorizing this article. DFH 15:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
It's true that the JS doesn't represent "most scholars," but the text doesn't claim that. It's referring to scholars of the historical Jesus, most of whom don't include the resurrection in their historical reconstruction of Jesus. A few do, but the text says "generally." Jonathan Tweet 01:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This seems to be another relevant Scriptural reference. 203.17.70.161 04:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
This is a high-importance, start-class article, and I'm willing to do some work to get it moving. Jonathan Tweet 17:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to add reference 1, but it won't link to anything. I copy-pasted the reference from somewhere else on Wiki that uses the same source (different page #s), but it won't work over here. Perhaps someone can fix it? Thanks Esdraelon 00:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
It is simply false that "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is a "Trinitarian formula." Nearly every non-Trinitarian theology that has ever existed in Christianity has included these same three figures, in the same order. Trinitarianism is not simply a list of three persons, it is the assertion that these three persons are all co-equal and co-eternal God persons inside a triune Godhead, a formula that is not at all found in the text in question. Jnelsonleith ( talk) 02:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Under the heading "New Testament accounts", I read the statement "In John, Jesus says the disciples will have the Holy Spirit and the authority to forgive sins and to withhold forgiveness." What chapter and verse is this in? I can't find anywhere in the book of John (or anywhere else in the Bible) where man is given the authority to forgive or withhold forgiveness. If this cannot be verified, could that sentence be deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.121.184 ( talk) 04:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Who the heck altered the
Events in the |
Life of Jesus according to the canonical gospels |
---|
![]() |
Portals:
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template/category thingy? It's messing up the top of the article, and I don't know how to fix it. -- Jay (Histrion) ( talk • contribs) 15:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Jesus said do not go into the ways of the gentiles, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That is about the split of Israel into the house of Judah and the house of Israel. The commission is to bring them back for the rule of Christ from Jerusalem. The topic is way off as written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.103.81.109 ( talk) 19:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
"Why anyone would want to not fulfill the great commission is a matter of great bewilderment to Jesus, who seemed to emphasize it so clearly, repeating it as his final words five times, as if to make it amazingly clear what the final emphasis of the entirety of his teaching actually should be." This sentence seems entirely out of context. It is also a matter of great bewilderment to me, i.e., it's grammatically confused and I'm unaware of where Jesus repeats the great commission fie times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.39.94 ( talk) 20:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Virtually all of the content in this is written from the point of view that the Great Commission was an invention of later generations, or that it does not apply to anyone but the original apostles. The research of a few fringe theories and fringe minority seminars is being held up at the expense of the long=-held, majority view that has been widely accepted by most churches and parishoners for untold centuries, so this article needs to be overhauled in favor of a more balanced viewpoint; one which relegates the fringe theories to the fringes. 68.173.59.5 ( talk) 20:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 06:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Great commission →
Great Commission –
Regarding, "which presumably happened," near the beginning of the article, the word "presumably" should be referenced. GaryGo ( talk) 14:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
The article states implausibly that "The Great Commission of Christianity is the instruction of the resurrected Jesus Christ to his disciples that they ...."
This is as inappropriate as if this encyclopedia were to report that Santa Claus delivers pieces of coal to bad children overnight on December 25th.
Folklore should be reported as folklore, and not allowed to intrude on the factual narrative being striven for.
David Lloyd-Jones ( talk) 03:57, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Paul may likely have been a False Christ, to die for the Jewish Nation. commissioned by the Sanhedrin/Jewish Council.
LOOK AT ALL THE MIRACLES the 12 Apostles (Matthias - ACTS 1, and the 11) are performing !!
Soon, everyone will believe in Jesus, and the Roman authorities will take action and tear down our Temple, and our Nation.
WHAT FOOLS YOU ARE !! DON'T YOU REALIZE? that it is better for one(1) man to die for the sake of the Jewish Nation, than for the whole Jewish Nation to be destroyed?
So the Jewish Council cast lots, and the lot fell on Saul, and Saul was commissioned by the Council to preach Jesus to the Gentile nations, to divert the attention of the Roman government towards the Gentile nations, and away from the Jewish Nation.
Thus, Saul became a type of Savior to the Jewish Nation. (a False Christ)
And Saul/Paul went about this work preaching Jesus to the Gentile nations with as much zeal as he previously had dragging the followers of Jesus from their homes, and throwing them into prison for their faith in Jesus.
Jesus warned of False Christs coming. And Jesus gave the warning: BEWARE THE YEAST OF THE PHARISEES To understand Jesus's miracle feeding the 4000 and 5000, we must do some math addition:
5 loaves of bread + 5[000] fed + 12 baskets collected
7 loaves of bread + 4[000] fed = 7 baskets collected
12 + 9 + 19 = 40
Now we go to ACTS 1:3 to see the fulfillment of Jesus' 40 Day Prophecy. Jesus (God in the Flesh) appeared to man for 40 days ONLY after his death. He ate and drank with them, and was touched by them. ("Put your finger here") touch the scars in my hands and side. In ACTS 1:11, the angel of God testifies that Jesus will return "one day" i.e. the Last Day, just as he had now left i.e. rising into the clouds as a flesh and blood man.
Thus, it can be surmised from all this that Saul/Paul did not see Jesus as a bright light on the road to Damascus. When Jesus appears again, ALL will see him, not 1 (Saul/Paul), not a few. ALL. 71.123.255.226 ( talk) 18:02, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Is this short paragraph relevant? It's already covered in Matthew 10, and has nothing to do with the rest of the article. WP:LEAD. Jujutsuan (Please notify with {{ re}} talk | contribs) 09:39, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
The History section cites one Robbie F. Castleman, who writes – after confessing that he had never seen this question addressed in all his studies and that even the scholar Craig Keener did not have the answer – that it was time "to risk the Web". And what did his quest find him? I quote: "It turns out that this passage [Matthew 28:16–20] may have got its summary label from a Dutch missionary Justinian von Welz (1621-88), but it was Hudson Taylor, nearly 200 years later, who popularized the use of ‘The Great Commission‘. So, it seems like Welz or some other Post-Reformation missionary probably coined the term ‘The Great Commission' and since that time, the passage has been the theme for countless mission talks and conferences. (It may be of some comfort to Web-sceptics to know that I ended up finding this bit of history in a hard-bound book on the history of world missions belonging to a colleague here at John Brown University.)"
The text provides no further information on the title or author of the "hard-bound book". In any case, even assuming full reliability of this unidentified source, what we read here is hardly sufficient to merit the assertion in our article that the term Great commission was "likely first used as a summary for the passage" by von Welz. It might suffice for the statement that it seems probable that it was first used by von Welz or someone else. However, being obviously true, this unsurprising statement would not actually need a citation.
Von Welz wrote in German. If he coined a label for the passage from Matthew, it could hardly have been Great Commission. I've done a google search on Große Kommission, but this did not yield anything. There are hits for "von Welz" + "Missionsauftrag", which could be translated as missionary commission, but I saw nothing suggesting his coining a label – nor the name of the publication, one of many by his hand from 1664, in which he advocated interpreting the Matthew passage as a task assigned by Jesus, to be executed by the faithful. --
Lambiam 10:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
A search for "Große(r) Auftrag" does get hits in the sense of "Great Commission", but none mentioning von Welz. -- Lambiam 00:50, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Great Commission article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
how did the great commision influence exploration, colonization, and the spread of free democracy?
I made some edits which attempt to remove what looked like a POV bias to me. Hope it looks OK. Happy to discuss the edits. KHM03 12:58, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I think that using the King James' Version is a mistake here. Its hard to read and not the version most coommonly used by Christians. NIV instead perhaps? 129.234.4.10 12:42, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Coomonly vs coommonly --> talk about irony! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.245.236.147 ( talk) 08:13, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
This section seems to be very POV. It should be either removed or reworded. DFH 14:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I have removed all four external links, because none of them satisfied Wikpedia criteria for inclusion. DFH 15:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I see disadvantages in wikilinking words and phrases from within a quoted Scripture passage. It gives undue emphasis, and creates a false impression that the Bible is a hypertext document. Words within Scripture quotations that require further explanation should be amplified in the main encyclopedic description paragraghs, and then linked only if necessary. DFH 15:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed Category:Christian and Jewish interfaith topics, as it seems to be not of the essence of the main article. No doubt many items in Christian theology are interfaith topics of one sort or another, but it hardly seems a sufficient reason for thus categorizing this article. DFH 15:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
It's true that the JS doesn't represent "most scholars," but the text doesn't claim that. It's referring to scholars of the historical Jesus, most of whom don't include the resurrection in their historical reconstruction of Jesus. A few do, but the text says "generally." Jonathan Tweet 01:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This seems to be another relevant Scriptural reference. 203.17.70.161 04:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
This is a high-importance, start-class article, and I'm willing to do some work to get it moving. Jonathan Tweet 17:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to add reference 1, but it won't link to anything. I copy-pasted the reference from somewhere else on Wiki that uses the same source (different page #s), but it won't work over here. Perhaps someone can fix it? Thanks Esdraelon 00:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
It is simply false that "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is a "Trinitarian formula." Nearly every non-Trinitarian theology that has ever existed in Christianity has included these same three figures, in the same order. Trinitarianism is not simply a list of three persons, it is the assertion that these three persons are all co-equal and co-eternal God persons inside a triune Godhead, a formula that is not at all found in the text in question. Jnelsonleith ( talk) 02:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Under the heading "New Testament accounts", I read the statement "In John, Jesus says the disciples will have the Holy Spirit and the authority to forgive sins and to withhold forgiveness." What chapter and verse is this in? I can't find anywhere in the book of John (or anywhere else in the Bible) where man is given the authority to forgive or withhold forgiveness. If this cannot be verified, could that sentence be deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.121.184 ( talk) 04:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Who the heck altered the
Events in the |
Life of Jesus according to the canonical gospels |
---|
![]() |
Portals:
![]() ![]() |
template/category thingy? It's messing up the top of the article, and I don't know how to fix it. -- Jay (Histrion) ( talk • contribs) 15:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Jesus said do not go into the ways of the gentiles, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That is about the split of Israel into the house of Judah and the house of Israel. The commission is to bring them back for the rule of Christ from Jerusalem. The topic is way off as written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.103.81.109 ( talk) 19:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
"Why anyone would want to not fulfill the great commission is a matter of great bewilderment to Jesus, who seemed to emphasize it so clearly, repeating it as his final words five times, as if to make it amazingly clear what the final emphasis of the entirety of his teaching actually should be." This sentence seems entirely out of context. It is also a matter of great bewilderment to me, i.e., it's grammatically confused and I'm unaware of where Jesus repeats the great commission fie times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.39.94 ( talk) 20:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Virtually all of the content in this is written from the point of view that the Great Commission was an invention of later generations, or that it does not apply to anyone but the original apostles. The research of a few fringe theories and fringe minority seminars is being held up at the expense of the long=-held, majority view that has been widely accepted by most churches and parishoners for untold centuries, so this article needs to be overhauled in favor of a more balanced viewpoint; one which relegates the fringe theories to the fringes. 68.173.59.5 ( talk) 20:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 06:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Great commission →
Great Commission –
Regarding, "which presumably happened," near the beginning of the article, the word "presumably" should be referenced. GaryGo ( talk) 14:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
The article states implausibly that "The Great Commission of Christianity is the instruction of the resurrected Jesus Christ to his disciples that they ...."
This is as inappropriate as if this encyclopedia were to report that Santa Claus delivers pieces of coal to bad children overnight on December 25th.
Folklore should be reported as folklore, and not allowed to intrude on the factual narrative being striven for.
David Lloyd-Jones ( talk) 03:57, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Paul may likely have been a False Christ, to die for the Jewish Nation. commissioned by the Sanhedrin/Jewish Council.
LOOK AT ALL THE MIRACLES the 12 Apostles (Matthias - ACTS 1, and the 11) are performing !!
Soon, everyone will believe in Jesus, and the Roman authorities will take action and tear down our Temple, and our Nation.
WHAT FOOLS YOU ARE !! DON'T YOU REALIZE? that it is better for one(1) man to die for the sake of the Jewish Nation, than for the whole Jewish Nation to be destroyed?
So the Jewish Council cast lots, and the lot fell on Saul, and Saul was commissioned by the Council to preach Jesus to the Gentile nations, to divert the attention of the Roman government towards the Gentile nations, and away from the Jewish Nation.
Thus, Saul became a type of Savior to the Jewish Nation. (a False Christ)
And Saul/Paul went about this work preaching Jesus to the Gentile nations with as much zeal as he previously had dragging the followers of Jesus from their homes, and throwing them into prison for their faith in Jesus.
Jesus warned of False Christs coming. And Jesus gave the warning: BEWARE THE YEAST OF THE PHARISEES To understand Jesus's miracle feeding the 4000 and 5000, we must do some math addition:
5 loaves of bread + 5[000] fed + 12 baskets collected
7 loaves of bread + 4[000] fed = 7 baskets collected
12 + 9 + 19 = 40
Now we go to ACTS 1:3 to see the fulfillment of Jesus' 40 Day Prophecy. Jesus (God in the Flesh) appeared to man for 40 days ONLY after his death. He ate and drank with them, and was touched by them. ("Put your finger here") touch the scars in my hands and side. In ACTS 1:11, the angel of God testifies that Jesus will return "one day" i.e. the Last Day, just as he had now left i.e. rising into the clouds as a flesh and blood man.
Thus, it can be surmised from all this that Saul/Paul did not see Jesus as a bright light on the road to Damascus. When Jesus appears again, ALL will see him, not 1 (Saul/Paul), not a few. ALL. 71.123.255.226 ( talk) 18:02, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Is this short paragraph relevant? It's already covered in Matthew 10, and has nothing to do with the rest of the article. WP:LEAD. Jujutsuan (Please notify with {{ re}} talk | contribs) 09:39, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
The History section cites one Robbie F. Castleman, who writes – after confessing that he had never seen this question addressed in all his studies and that even the scholar Craig Keener did not have the answer – that it was time "to risk the Web". And what did his quest find him? I quote: "It turns out that this passage [Matthew 28:16–20] may have got its summary label from a Dutch missionary Justinian von Welz (1621-88), but it was Hudson Taylor, nearly 200 years later, who popularized the use of ‘The Great Commission‘. So, it seems like Welz or some other Post-Reformation missionary probably coined the term ‘The Great Commission' and since that time, the passage has been the theme for countless mission talks and conferences. (It may be of some comfort to Web-sceptics to know that I ended up finding this bit of history in a hard-bound book on the history of world missions belonging to a colleague here at John Brown University.)"
The text provides no further information on the title or author of the "hard-bound book". In any case, even assuming full reliability of this unidentified source, what we read here is hardly sufficient to merit the assertion in our article that the term Great commission was "likely first used as a summary for the passage" by von Welz. It might suffice for the statement that it seems probable that it was first used by von Welz or someone else. However, being obviously true, this unsurprising statement would not actually need a citation.
Von Welz wrote in German. If he coined a label for the passage from Matthew, it could hardly have been Great Commission. I've done a google search on Große Kommission, but this did not yield anything. There are hits for "von Welz" + "Missionsauftrag", which could be translated as missionary commission, but I saw nothing suggesting his coining a label – nor the name of the publication, one of many by his hand from 1664, in which he advocated interpreting the Matthew passage as a task assigned by Jesus, to be executed by the faithful. --
Lambiam 10:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
A search for "Große(r) Auftrag" does get hits in the sense of "Great Commission", but none mentioning von Welz. -- Lambiam 00:50, 17 June 2018 (UTC)