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Hi @ Mornington Glory, I'm trying to verify some of the citations here so we can remove the cleanup tags (as part of the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anarchism#Cleanup drive). Would you have digital copies of the Assistant Librarian and The Bookseller sources? And do you have the complete citation for the 1975 Peace News article? czar 19:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Czar thanks so much for your help. I'm a real beginner with so much to learn.
- Sadly Assistant Librarian is not digitised but I do have a link to the organisation it operates under
- I can do nothing today but I will follow up on all 3 points
- Thank you and hopefully see you tomorrow
- Mornington Glory
Mornington Glory (
talk)
22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Great—thanks! I have Assistant Librarian coming through ILL but it's taking a while. We'll also want to add
reliable, secondary source citations for all claims in the article or remove them (for now) until we can.
czar
00:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Czar - I've added a digital link to the Bookseller article from The British Newspaper Archive - ditto very slow and clunky but it seems to work, off to Peace News now More later
Mornington Glory (
talk)
09:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sadly the Peace News archive only goes back to December 2000, therefore not possible to have a digital link
- I expect someone had a photocopy - remember those? of the article, it may be in the Grass Roots archive at Manchester Archive or held with the article in the North West Labour History Society journal (less likely)
- Anything else I can try?
- Thanks Czar, Alison
Mornington Glory (
talk)
10:00, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, how did you know what was in it without a copy? I can request it via the library but we would just need the full citation (issue, page number, section name).
czar
14:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Czar - the article was compiled by several people, and over a slightly drawn out schedule, I haven't physically checked every citation as I have known and trusted the other contributors for a long time. Do you have any other suggestions re the Peace News quote?
- I've added a citation to a CUP History of the Book in Britain - did it manually so I could get the page number in: " Indeed one of the earliest radical bookshops, founded in Manchester in 1971, was called Grassroots.” the name is wrong but same shop. Hope that adds a tick in the notability query
Mornington Glory (
talk)
11:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I found Peace News at a nearby academic library but before I make the trip/investment to travel, it's occurring to me that there unfortunately might not be enough content here to support a dedicated article. There doesn't appear to be
three instances of
significant, in-depth, independent coverage of the bookshop. The most in-depth sources (several by Walker and Devine) are affiliated with the bookshop and therefore not independent sources. Those
primary sources are meant to fill in the cracks between a base of
reliable, secondary sources, but we do not appear to have any here. The other citations appear to only mention the bookshop in passing. As a tertiary source, Wikipedia paraphrases what reliable, secondary sources have said on a topic, so if this the bookshop is covered in sources as, for example, one item within a history of radical bookshops in the UK, then that's how we should look to cover it, not as a dedicated article. Is that how it's covered in the CUP History of the Book?
czar
12:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm very shocked that you don't think the Grass Roots entry merits inclusion/passes the requirements to be included in Wikipedia.
- The problem is that people do not write in-depth studies of bookshops, nor do they do PhDs. They write books occasionally but I don't know any that are written from an independent source - always written by the founder/owner etc.
- Yes the inclusion in the CUP History of the Book is brief:
- "This quote is at the end of a paragraph about Centerprise’s local publishing and the Federation of Worker Writers and Community Publishers.
- 'These and similar achievements demonstrate how the radical book trade serves as the soil in which to cultivate the ideas which are essential for radical communities to thrive. Particularly in bookshops, there is a cross-fertilisation of ideas when the publications and the people who write and read them come together in fruitful conversation. Indeed one of the earliest radical bookshops, founded in Manchester in 1971, was called Grassroots.'
- (It is written as “Grassroots” not “Grass Roots”.)"
- It sounds as if a whole chunk of information history is going to be excluded from Wikipedia. Pre-internet independent bookshops were hugely important as hubs, meeting points and information distribution centres.
- I would argue that the article as it stands demonstrates the role played by Grass Roots Bookshop as a part of the development of independent radical bookshops at that time in UK social/ political history. And serves as a example of how those bookshops operated.
- What would you suggest? Thanks Mornington Glory Mornington Glory ( talk) 21:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I found Peace News at a nearby academic library but before I make the trip/investment to travel, it's occurring to me that there unfortunately might not be enough content here to support a dedicated article. There doesn't appear to be
three instances of
significant, in-depth, independent coverage of the bookshop. The most in-depth sources (several by Walker and Devine) are affiliated with the bookshop and therefore not independent sources. Those
primary sources are meant to fill in the cracks between a base of
reliable, secondary sources, but we do not appear to have any here. The other citations appear to only mention the bookshop in passing. As a tertiary source, Wikipedia paraphrases what reliable, secondary sources have said on a topic, so if this the bookshop is covered in sources as, for example, one item within a history of radical bookshops in the UK, then that's how we should look to cover it, not as a dedicated article. Is that how it's covered in the CUP History of the Book?
czar
12:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, how did you know what was in it without a copy? I can request it via the library but we would just need the full citation (issue, page number, section name).
czar
14:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Czar - I've added a digital link to the Bookseller article from The British Newspaper Archive - ditto very slow and clunky but it seems to work, off to Peace News now More later
Mornington Glory (
talk)
09:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Great—thanks! I have Assistant Librarian coming through ILL but it's taking a while. We'll also want to add
reliable, secondary source citations for all claims in the article or remove them (for now) until we can.
czar
00:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Categories:
- C-Class AfC articles
- AfC submissions by date/22 June 2024
- Accepted AfC submissions
- C-Class Book articles
- WikiProject Books articles
- C-Class Politics of the United Kingdom articles
- Low-importance Politics of the United Kingdom articles
- C-Class organization articles
- Low-importance organization articles
- WikiProject Organizations articles
- C-Class anarchism articles
- WikiProject Anarchism articles
|
| This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hi @ Mornington Glory, I'm trying to verify some of the citations here so we can remove the cleanup tags (as part of the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anarchism#Cleanup drive). Would you have digital copies of the Assistant Librarian and The Bookseller sources? And do you have the complete citation for the 1975 Peace News article? czar 19:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Czar thanks so much for your help. I'm a real beginner with so much to learn.
- Sadly Assistant Librarian is not digitised but I do have a link to the organisation it operates under
- I can do nothing today but I will follow up on all 3 points
- Thank you and hopefully see you tomorrow
- Mornington Glory
Mornington Glory (
talk)
22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Great—thanks! I have Assistant Librarian coming through ILL but it's taking a while. We'll also want to add
reliable, secondary source citations for all claims in the article or remove them (for now) until we can.
czar
00:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Czar - I've added a digital link to the Bookseller article from The British Newspaper Archive - ditto very slow and clunky but it seems to work, off to Peace News now More later
Mornington Glory (
talk)
09:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sadly the Peace News archive only goes back to December 2000, therefore not possible to have a digital link
- I expect someone had a photocopy - remember those? of the article, it may be in the Grass Roots archive at Manchester Archive or held with the article in the North West Labour History Society journal (less likely)
- Anything else I can try?
- Thanks Czar, Alison
Mornington Glory (
talk)
10:00, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, how did you know what was in it without a copy? I can request it via the library but we would just need the full citation (issue, page number, section name).
czar
14:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Czar - the article was compiled by several people, and over a slightly drawn out schedule, I haven't physically checked every citation as I have known and trusted the other contributors for a long time. Do you have any other suggestions re the Peace News quote?
- I've added a citation to a CUP History of the Book in Britain - did it manually so I could get the page number in: " Indeed one of the earliest radical bookshops, founded in Manchester in 1971, was called Grassroots.” the name is wrong but same shop. Hope that adds a tick in the notability query
Mornington Glory (
talk)
11:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I found Peace News at a nearby academic library but before I make the trip/investment to travel, it's occurring to me that there unfortunately might not be enough content here to support a dedicated article. There doesn't appear to be
three instances of
significant, in-depth, independent coverage of the bookshop. The most in-depth sources (several by Walker and Devine) are affiliated with the bookshop and therefore not independent sources. Those
primary sources are meant to fill in the cracks between a base of
reliable, secondary sources, but we do not appear to have any here. The other citations appear to only mention the bookshop in passing. As a tertiary source, Wikipedia paraphrases what reliable, secondary sources have said on a topic, so if this the bookshop is covered in sources as, for example, one item within a history of radical bookshops in the UK, then that's how we should look to cover it, not as a dedicated article. Is that how it's covered in the CUP History of the Book?
czar
12:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm very shocked that you don't think the Grass Roots entry merits inclusion/passes the requirements to be included in Wikipedia.
- The problem is that people do not write in-depth studies of bookshops, nor do they do PhDs. They write books occasionally but I don't know any that are written from an independent source - always written by the founder/owner etc.
- Yes the inclusion in the CUP History of the Book is brief:
- "This quote is at the end of a paragraph about Centerprise’s local publishing and the Federation of Worker Writers and Community Publishers.
- 'These and similar achievements demonstrate how the radical book trade serves as the soil in which to cultivate the ideas which are essential for radical communities to thrive. Particularly in bookshops, there is a cross-fertilisation of ideas when the publications and the people who write and read them come together in fruitful conversation. Indeed one of the earliest radical bookshops, founded in Manchester in 1971, was called Grassroots.'
- (It is written as “Grassroots” not “Grass Roots”.)"
- It sounds as if a whole chunk of information history is going to be excluded from Wikipedia. Pre-internet independent bookshops were hugely important as hubs, meeting points and information distribution centres.
- I would argue that the article as it stands demonstrates the role played by Grass Roots Bookshop as a part of the development of independent radical bookshops at that time in UK social/ political history. And serves as a example of how those bookshops operated.
- What would you suggest? Thanks Mornington Glory Mornington Glory ( talk) 21:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I found Peace News at a nearby academic library but before I make the trip/investment to travel, it's occurring to me that there unfortunately might not be enough content here to support a dedicated article. There doesn't appear to be
three instances of
significant, in-depth, independent coverage of the bookshop. The most in-depth sources (several by Walker and Devine) are affiliated with the bookshop and therefore not independent sources. Those
primary sources are meant to fill in the cracks between a base of
reliable, secondary sources, but we do not appear to have any here. The other citations appear to only mention the bookshop in passing. As a tertiary source, Wikipedia paraphrases what reliable, secondary sources have said on a topic, so if this the bookshop is covered in sources as, for example, one item within a history of radical bookshops in the UK, then that's how we should look to cover it, not as a dedicated article. Is that how it's covered in the CUP History of the Book?
czar
12:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, how did you know what was in it without a copy? I can request it via the library but we would just need the full citation (issue, page number, section name).
czar
14:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Czar - I've added a digital link to the Bookseller article from The British Newspaper Archive - ditto very slow and clunky but it seems to work, off to Peace News now More later
Mornington Glory (
talk)
09:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Great—thanks! I have Assistant Librarian coming through ILL but it's taking a while. We'll also want to add
reliable, secondary source citations for all claims in the article or remove them (for now) until we can.
czar
00:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Categories:
- C-Class AfC articles
- AfC submissions by date/22 June 2024
- Accepted AfC submissions
- C-Class Book articles
- WikiProject Books articles
- C-Class Politics of the United Kingdom articles
- Low-importance Politics of the United Kingdom articles
- C-Class organization articles
- Low-importance organization articles
- WikiProject Organizations articles
- C-Class anarchism articles
- WikiProject Anarchism articles