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the List of cities in South Africa and the Eastern Cape Province article suggest that PE is now known known as "Nelson Mandela Metropole". Really? Since when? If anybody can expand on this issue, it would be nice. Nyh 13:23, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This page needs to be disambiguated from the Port Elizabeth in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Elizabeth,_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.129.50.189 ( talk) 09:40, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I've created a disambig page, leaving the redirect from Port Elizabeth to Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape. Crazyscot 16:03, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The administrative entity is officially the "Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality" and comprises the previous City of Port Elizabeth and the towns of Uitenhage and Despatch (plus some smaller settlements that were previously administered by a Regional Services Council) - and which still retain their geographic names. Elio1 ( talk) 18:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
There is a wiki page for the metro which should be referred to in this page in connection with government, Im going to copy the info from the Grahamstown article and make the neccessary changes. What is concerning me though is that the democraphics section here is based on Census SA's info that relates to the metro, for now Im going to leave the information here but it should go accross to the metro article with this article sticking really to the City.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Hjul ( talk • contribs) 08:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Some of the original content of this page appears at first glance to be a copyright violation, lifted from http://www.nelsonmandelabay.com/port_elizabeth.asp . However, on closer examination, that page in fact appears to have been lifted from Wikipedia. As evidence of this, consider the beginning of its second paragraph: "The Donkin Reserve Port Elizabeth": this could only happen if that page had been naively copied and pasted from the Wikipedia article without copy-editing. Crazyscot 13:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR ( talk) 19:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I am in the process of requesting a move to Port Elizabeth which is currently a redirect to here as per WP:COMMON. Crispness ( talk) 09:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
The city has never/is known as Nelson M'ela Bay??? This is the name of the municipality. One doesn't say: Baltimore, also known as Maryland is a city... - Can someone please change the beggining??-- Bezuidenhout ( talk) 18:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Notwithstanding the assessments made by the other projects that this falls under, I'm giving this a C. Needs references for a few unsourced statments before I give it a B. Ron2K ( talk) 19:59, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
It says that the urban decay of central PE was due to the moving of the University and building of motorsways? To me this sounds like bull as the real reason. Bezuidenhout ( talk) 16:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
2010 FIFA World Cup [quote The Port Elizabeth harbour, waterfront and city centre are in the process of being upgraded before the 2010 FIFA World Cup, and are expected to rival the popular Cape Town waterfront. The city is one of the venues for World Cup games, and many more visitors are expected. To this end, there are calls for Port Elizabeth Airport to be upgraded, to ease the journey time and effort both for World Cup teams and spectators, and also more generally for tourists.[citation needed] unquote] The 2010 FIF world cup has come and gone. The Port Elizabeth harbour, waterfront and city centre were NOT upgraded before the 2010 FIFA world cup and certainly do NOT rival the Cape Town waterfront to the slightest degree. (There is NO tourist infrastructure in the harbour). In fact, members of the public are prohibited from entering the harbour. The airport itself was NOT upgraded but a few roads around the airport and in a few other areas were upgraded and completed prior to the start of the SWC in June 21010. A new bus service was started just before the Beginning of the competition. Members of the public who wished to attend any match at the stadium were required to park their cars at various venues and bus to the stadium. After the matches there was chaos as thousands of spectators tried to return to the car parks on the limited services provided. July 19th, 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.210.244.185 ( talk) 15:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
The entry for "Municipal Manager" is out of date (as at February 2012). There is currently an Acting Municipal Manager (Mr. Themba Hani) until such time as a permanent appointment is made. Elio1 ( talk) 07:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
That's better - the "Municipal Manager" is at the head of the Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality, which administers the metropolitan area of which Port Elizabeth forms a geographical part; the former Port Elizabeth Municipality was disestablished when the NMBMM was established. Elio1 ( talk) 14:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
in terms of sports in Port Elizabeth. The IRON MAN SA event is held their every year.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.87.254.29 ( talk) 12:35, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
The official municipal website now refers to "Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality", i.e. the "Metropolitan" appears to have been discarded from the name. I don't know if the legal name has also been changed. Also, it appears the municipality has changed the title of its top official from "Municipal Manager" to "City Manager". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elio1 ( talk • contribs) 10:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
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References
Ashton Nyte was noted years prior as being a notable person from PE. Why has this been removed even though on his wikipedia entry it clearly states he was born here? [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.227.91.224 ( talk) 13:06, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
RJ Thomas 15:04, 14 January 2018 (UTC) I added Ashton Nyte back because he is clearly a notable person. ( talk)
This
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Reference [29] Delagoa does not mean "from Goa". Delagoa originates from Baía de Lagoa in Portuguese. Lagoon Bay in English. 102.182.13.62 ( talk) 15:06, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
The English IPA Pronunciation of Gqeberha should be added to the article. See Help:IPA/English for a guide. Park3r ( talk) 23:39, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
The b should be implosive according to both that audio and standard treatments of Xhosa orthography. Otherwise it would be Gqebherha. Changing this but leaving it open to discussion.
Note that the second video doesn’t seem to feature any native speaker: one is Anglophone, the speaker for the bulk of the video is Venda. Harsimaja ( talk) 18:12, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
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The Walmer Township is also known as Gqeberha. https://iaps.architexturez.net/doc/oai-iaps-id-0103bm042#:~:text=Gqebera%2C%20also%20known%20as%20Walmer,of%20the%20white%20local%20council. PDKM ( talk) 10:00, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME WP:OFFICIAL WP:NAMECHANGES would indicate that the name would remain Port Elizabeth until the established usage in English changes, at this point, it's too early to tell ( WP:CRYSTAL). There are numerous cases of SA towns and cities having their old names as common names, because the new names haven't been accepted by the population, and are widely disregarded in WP:RS, are hard to pronounce in English, or take years to become common for other reasons. Renamings have also been withdrawn in the Government Gazette shortly after being promulgated, or successfully challenged for procedural reasons in court before the usage becomes common. I would recommend moving the page only after it becomes clear that Gqeberha is the common usage, and given the size of this city, this could take months or years, and certainly won't happen overnight. Park3r ( talk) 21:53, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
The article shouldn't be moved now. The renaming of Barrow, Alaska to Utqiagvik took about a year, while Bangalore hasn't moved to Bengaluru in over a decade. We can better assess in 6 months if the common name has changed as a result of this government declaration. power~enwiki ( π, ν) 22:50, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. There is no consensus that the new name is the WP:COMMONNAME. ( closed by non-admin page mover) -- Calidum 19:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Port Elizabeth → Gqeberha – New official city name. 🔥 Lightning Complex Fire🔥 19:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name. Taking a cursory look at Google News results over the past month:
Before any further article moves are considered, it should be noted that there have been 66000 objections (from people of different race groups) to the name Gqeberha (the origin of the name appears to be unknown, and the there appear to have been procedural issues, with only 393 people were consulted on the name out of a population of 1.4 million), that the municipality has lodged a formal objection, and that an alternative name proposed is Nelson Mandela City. [1] [2] Park3r ( talk) 00:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
It is requested that one or more audio files demonstrating correct
pronunciation of this article's title be
uploaded to
Wikimedia Commons and included in this article to
improve its quality. Please see Wikipedia:Requested recordings for more on this request. |
We have the IPA pronunciation, but it would be great if we could add an audio recording as well, preferably voiced by a native Xhosa speaker. Park3r ( talk) 01:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
In reply to the comment above asking for an audio recording .... I would like to see this, yes. Also I want to know, does this name have a different pronunciation for when it's used in English? For example, the Alaskan town name Utqiagvik has both a native pronunciation and an adapted English pronunciation. Likewise for many Spanish-origin placenames in the American Southwest, such as Las Vegas, Los Angeles, etc .... names we Americans might never think twice about. — Soap — 20:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
I am Xhosa. How can I contribute? How do I upload? 41.114.178.27 ( talk) 14:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
How do I upload? 41.114.178.27 ( talk) 14:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not considered - please re-request with an actual rationale, @ Desertambition: ( non-admin closure) Red Slash 22:30, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Port Elizabeth → Gqeberha – Place here your rationale for the proposed page name change, ideally referring to applicable naming convention policies and guidelines, and providing evidence in support where appropriate. If your reasoning includes search engine results, please prioritize searches limited to reliable sources (e.g. books, news, scholarly papers) over other web results. You don't need to add your signature at the end, as this template will do so automatically. Desertambition ( talk) 21:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Closing early per WP:SNOW. Keeping this open for any longer will only make the move further away from happening. A new RM paying regard to policy, particularly WP:NAMECHANGES, would be welcome. Nardog ( talk) 09:22, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Port Elizabeth → Gqeberha – This article should have been moved months ago. Proof has already been posted on this page. However, South African news sources are not accepted for being "unreliable". This is transparently an effort by white South Africans to prolong the name "Port Elizabeth" in place of "Gqeberha" against the wishes of most South Africans. This goes against the fundamental ideas of Wikipedia. Articles should not pander to a specific ethnic group but rather reflect the common name. Three points from "Reasons for moving a page" apply here:
1. The title does not follow Wikipedia's naming conventions, such as that it is not the common name of the subject or it is overprecise.
2. The subject of the article has changed its name and the new name has come into majority use.
3. The title has been misspelled, does not contain standard capitalization or punctuation, or is misleading or inaccurate.
There are no more arguments to be made besides looking at the proof that has already been provided. It must also be noted that many non-white South Africans do not have internet access and are thus unlikely to appear on the wikipedia talk page in great numbers. The legacy of apartheid still looms over South Africa in many ways, this is one of them. Desertambition ( talk) 04:50, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
has come into common use. Further, I would ask the nominator to be mindful of WP:CIVIL; while I am ignorant of the broader discussions on this page and elsewhere, the insinuations you have made in this proposal about the motives of some editors is problematic at best. BilledMammal ( talk) 02:01, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Reference [29] of this article is incorrect. Delagoa does not mean "from Goa". Delagoa originates from Baía de Lagoa in Portuguese. Lagoon Bay in English.
Now that the objections to the name change have been rejected by government, and, more importantly from Wikipedia's perspective, with South African media extensively using the new name these days, is it time to change the name of the article per WP:NAMECHANGES? Greenman ( talk) 15:08, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Port Elizabeth be
renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.
result: Links:
current log •
target log
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Port Elizabeth → ? – Port Elizabeth was renamed to Gqberha. This is the name used by government services and local media.
https://www.news24.com/wheels/motorsport/gtc-heads-to-gqberha-with-title-battles-wide-open-20210525
https://www.enca.com/news/gqeberha-fire-businesses-and-vehicles-gutted
https://mype.co.za/new/gqberha-in-the-news-22-may-2021/146973/2021/05/
African news articles were considered "unreliable" before. I think this is incorrect and these sources should be taken seriously. There is no reason African media would be inherently unreliable.
Apologies for misspelling Gqeberha, Xhosa is not my first language.
Desertambition ( talk) 03:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. Havelock Jones ( talk) 11:58, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
A new RM paying regard to policy, particularly WP:NAMECHANGES, would be welcome), as this is now the third proposal on this topic I believe we should settle the question, at least for the moment.
independent, reliable English-language sources, I believe that when considering between two names without NPOV considerations even unreliable sources can give evidence that a term is in common use - though please note that I have not assessed any of these sources for reliability, and so am not making any claim in regards to their reliability or lack thereof.
even users on this page who oppose the name change tend to agree Gqeberha is going to be in vogue sooner or laterwhich indirectly means that it's not now. When it is going to be there, or if we have overwhelming evidence of its common usage in South African as well as other media outlets, I'll be more than happy to change my mind; my findings are such as presented, and I don't believe that "overwhelming" challenge is met here. I'm not getting into South African politics and race relations, because it's not a forum. Szmenderowiecki ( talk) 15:36, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Would you agree the Wikipedia stats are not relevant?The explanation you provide is fair, but it only shows something different: people don't care much about the new name, as otherwise there would have been a lot of name-changing (and, inherently, link-changing), which would mean that the ratio between Port Elizabeth and Gqeberha hits would have changed, either through direct search terms inside Wikipedia or through going through wikilinks (spoiler: it hasn't). The only thing that introduces bias here is Google search, so anyone referred from Google would hit as Port Elizabeth. But can it explain a 15-20-fold difference? I doubt it.
When I do a Google search over the last one month (8 months ago the change had not occured yet, and uptake was not immediate, so one month is more meaningful [...]Two notes here: first, the date when the name change occurred was on 23 February 2021, which is the starting date of all of my searches, and from my experience with name changes in Ukraine, these have been accepted in the media almost instantly; therefore, 8 months seems appropriate; and in fact, Google Trends don't see any change of relative usage of the terms at all, which means the term hasn't caught up (had it been at least marginally popular, it would have seen a gradual increase, see examples from Ukraine: Kropyvnytskyi [29], Kamianske [30], Bakhmut [31]). Second, the links you send me say "Hasło – "port elizabeth" – nie pasuje do żadnych wiadomości." [The search term "port elizabeth" has no related news stories], so yes, we all see different stuff in Google, that is, I don't see any of yours, sorry. Szmenderowiecki ( talk) 22:40, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Comment. The dispute over Port Elizabeth/Gqeberha will most probably be a fixture on the talk page of this article, therefore, I would ask all editors to consider this before escalating the talk page here into one of the lamest edit wars.
This
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Gqeberha has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
A protected redirect, Gqeberha , needs redirect category ( rcat) templates added and adjusted. Please modify it as follows:
#REDIRECT [[Port Elizabeth]] {{Redirect category shell| {{R from move}} }} {{R from official name}}
#REDIRECT [[Port Elizabeth]] {{Redirect category shell| {{R from move}} {{R from official name}} {{R with history}} {{R printworthy}} }}
The {{ Redirect category shell}} template is used to sort redirects into one or more categories. When {{ pp-protected}} and/or {{ pp-move}} suffice, the Redirect category shell template will detect the protection level(s) and categorize the redirect automatically. (Also, the categories will be automatically removed or changed when and if protection is lifted, raised or lowered.) Thank you in advance! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 03:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
A couple of years ago I posted this wondering if we could agree on a standard English pronunciation of the new name and was told that it was still up in the air. Im just wondering if this has changed. At least in the United States it's common for placenames of non-English origin to be pronounced in ways that fit the rhythm and sound of the English language, even if they arent particularly loyal to the original pronunciations ... many well-known French and Spanish names are good examples of this, and it's even quite common for the same words to have two different pronunciations. — Soap — 14:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
the List of cities in South Africa and the Eastern Cape Province article suggest that PE is now known known as "Nelson Mandela Metropole". Really? Since when? If anybody can expand on this issue, it would be nice. Nyh 13:23, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This page needs to be disambiguated from the Port Elizabeth in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Elizabeth,_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.129.50.189 ( talk) 09:40, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I've created a disambig page, leaving the redirect from Port Elizabeth to Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape. Crazyscot 16:03, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The administrative entity is officially the "Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality" and comprises the previous City of Port Elizabeth and the towns of Uitenhage and Despatch (plus some smaller settlements that were previously administered by a Regional Services Council) - and which still retain their geographic names. Elio1 ( talk) 18:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
There is a wiki page for the metro which should be referred to in this page in connection with government, Im going to copy the info from the Grahamstown article and make the neccessary changes. What is concerning me though is that the democraphics section here is based on Census SA's info that relates to the metro, for now Im going to leave the information here but it should go accross to the metro article with this article sticking really to the City.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Hjul ( talk • contribs) 08:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Some of the original content of this page appears at first glance to be a copyright violation, lifted from http://www.nelsonmandelabay.com/port_elizabeth.asp . However, on closer examination, that page in fact appears to have been lifted from Wikipedia. As evidence of this, consider the beginning of its second paragraph: "The Donkin Reserve Port Elizabeth": this could only happen if that page had been naively copied and pasted from the Wikipedia article without copy-editing. Crazyscot 13:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR ( talk) 19:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I am in the process of requesting a move to Port Elizabeth which is currently a redirect to here as per WP:COMMON. Crispness ( talk) 09:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
The city has never/is known as Nelson M'ela Bay??? This is the name of the municipality. One doesn't say: Baltimore, also known as Maryland is a city... - Can someone please change the beggining??-- Bezuidenhout ( talk) 18:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Notwithstanding the assessments made by the other projects that this falls under, I'm giving this a C. Needs references for a few unsourced statments before I give it a B. Ron2K ( talk) 19:59, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
It says that the urban decay of central PE was due to the moving of the University and building of motorsways? To me this sounds like bull as the real reason. Bezuidenhout ( talk) 16:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
2010 FIFA World Cup [quote The Port Elizabeth harbour, waterfront and city centre are in the process of being upgraded before the 2010 FIFA World Cup, and are expected to rival the popular Cape Town waterfront. The city is one of the venues for World Cup games, and many more visitors are expected. To this end, there are calls for Port Elizabeth Airport to be upgraded, to ease the journey time and effort both for World Cup teams and spectators, and also more generally for tourists.[citation needed] unquote] The 2010 FIF world cup has come and gone. The Port Elizabeth harbour, waterfront and city centre were NOT upgraded before the 2010 FIFA world cup and certainly do NOT rival the Cape Town waterfront to the slightest degree. (There is NO tourist infrastructure in the harbour). In fact, members of the public are prohibited from entering the harbour. The airport itself was NOT upgraded but a few roads around the airport and in a few other areas were upgraded and completed prior to the start of the SWC in June 21010. A new bus service was started just before the Beginning of the competition. Members of the public who wished to attend any match at the stadium were required to park their cars at various venues and bus to the stadium. After the matches there was chaos as thousands of spectators tried to return to the car parks on the limited services provided. July 19th, 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.210.244.185 ( talk) 15:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
The entry for "Municipal Manager" is out of date (as at February 2012). There is currently an Acting Municipal Manager (Mr. Themba Hani) until such time as a permanent appointment is made. Elio1 ( talk) 07:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
That's better - the "Municipal Manager" is at the head of the Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality, which administers the metropolitan area of which Port Elizabeth forms a geographical part; the former Port Elizabeth Municipality was disestablished when the NMBMM was established. Elio1 ( talk) 14:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
in terms of sports in Port Elizabeth. The IRON MAN SA event is held their every year.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.87.254.29 ( talk) 12:35, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
The official municipal website now refers to "Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality", i.e. the "Metropolitan" appears to have been discarded from the name. I don't know if the legal name has also been changed. Also, it appears the municipality has changed the title of its top official from "Municipal Manager" to "City Manager". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elio1 ( talk • contribs) 10:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
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Wiki policy on external links states quite clearly
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References
Ashton Nyte was noted years prior as being a notable person from PE. Why has this been removed even though on his wikipedia entry it clearly states he was born here? [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.227.91.224 ( talk) 13:06, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
RJ Thomas 15:04, 14 January 2018 (UTC) I added Ashton Nyte back because he is clearly a notable person. ( talk)
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Reference [29] Delagoa does not mean "from Goa". Delagoa originates from Baía de Lagoa in Portuguese. Lagoon Bay in English. 102.182.13.62 ( talk) 15:06, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
The English IPA Pronunciation of Gqeberha should be added to the article. See Help:IPA/English for a guide. Park3r ( talk) 23:39, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
The b should be implosive according to both that audio and standard treatments of Xhosa orthography. Otherwise it would be Gqebherha. Changing this but leaving it open to discussion.
Note that the second video doesn’t seem to feature any native speaker: one is Anglophone, the speaker for the bulk of the video is Venda. Harsimaja ( talk) 18:12, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
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The Walmer Township is also known as Gqeberha. https://iaps.architexturez.net/doc/oai-iaps-id-0103bm042#:~:text=Gqebera%2C%20also%20known%20as%20Walmer,of%20the%20white%20local%20council. PDKM ( talk) 10:00, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME WP:OFFICIAL WP:NAMECHANGES would indicate that the name would remain Port Elizabeth until the established usage in English changes, at this point, it's too early to tell ( WP:CRYSTAL). There are numerous cases of SA towns and cities having their old names as common names, because the new names haven't been accepted by the population, and are widely disregarded in WP:RS, are hard to pronounce in English, or take years to become common for other reasons. Renamings have also been withdrawn in the Government Gazette shortly after being promulgated, or successfully challenged for procedural reasons in court before the usage becomes common. I would recommend moving the page only after it becomes clear that Gqeberha is the common usage, and given the size of this city, this could take months or years, and certainly won't happen overnight. Park3r ( talk) 21:53, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
The article shouldn't be moved now. The renaming of Barrow, Alaska to Utqiagvik took about a year, while Bangalore hasn't moved to Bengaluru in over a decade. We can better assess in 6 months if the common name has changed as a result of this government declaration. power~enwiki ( π, ν) 22:50, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. There is no consensus that the new name is the WP:COMMONNAME. ( closed by non-admin page mover) -- Calidum 19:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Port Elizabeth → Gqeberha – New official city name. 🔥 Lightning Complex Fire🔥 19:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name. Taking a cursory look at Google News results over the past month:
Before any further article moves are considered, it should be noted that there have been 66000 objections (from people of different race groups) to the name Gqeberha (the origin of the name appears to be unknown, and the there appear to have been procedural issues, with only 393 people were consulted on the name out of a population of 1.4 million), that the municipality has lodged a formal objection, and that an alternative name proposed is Nelson Mandela City. [1] [2] Park3r ( talk) 00:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
It is requested that one or more audio files demonstrating correct
pronunciation of this article's title be
uploaded to
Wikimedia Commons and included in this article to
improve its quality. Please see Wikipedia:Requested recordings for more on this request. |
We have the IPA pronunciation, but it would be great if we could add an audio recording as well, preferably voiced by a native Xhosa speaker. Park3r ( talk) 01:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
In reply to the comment above asking for an audio recording .... I would like to see this, yes. Also I want to know, does this name have a different pronunciation for when it's used in English? For example, the Alaskan town name Utqiagvik has both a native pronunciation and an adapted English pronunciation. Likewise for many Spanish-origin placenames in the American Southwest, such as Las Vegas, Los Angeles, etc .... names we Americans might never think twice about. — Soap — 20:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
I am Xhosa. How can I contribute? How do I upload? 41.114.178.27 ( talk) 14:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
How do I upload? 41.114.178.27 ( talk) 14:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not considered - please re-request with an actual rationale, @ Desertambition: ( non-admin closure) Red Slash 22:30, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Port Elizabeth → Gqeberha – Place here your rationale for the proposed page name change, ideally referring to applicable naming convention policies and guidelines, and providing evidence in support where appropriate. If your reasoning includes search engine results, please prioritize searches limited to reliable sources (e.g. books, news, scholarly papers) over other web results. You don't need to add your signature at the end, as this template will do so automatically. Desertambition ( talk) 21:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Closing early per WP:SNOW. Keeping this open for any longer will only make the move further away from happening. A new RM paying regard to policy, particularly WP:NAMECHANGES, would be welcome. Nardog ( talk) 09:22, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Port Elizabeth → Gqeberha – This article should have been moved months ago. Proof has already been posted on this page. However, South African news sources are not accepted for being "unreliable". This is transparently an effort by white South Africans to prolong the name "Port Elizabeth" in place of "Gqeberha" against the wishes of most South Africans. This goes against the fundamental ideas of Wikipedia. Articles should not pander to a specific ethnic group but rather reflect the common name. Three points from "Reasons for moving a page" apply here:
1. The title does not follow Wikipedia's naming conventions, such as that it is not the common name of the subject or it is overprecise.
2. The subject of the article has changed its name and the new name has come into majority use.
3. The title has been misspelled, does not contain standard capitalization or punctuation, or is misleading or inaccurate.
There are no more arguments to be made besides looking at the proof that has already been provided. It must also be noted that many non-white South Africans do not have internet access and are thus unlikely to appear on the wikipedia talk page in great numbers. The legacy of apartheid still looms over South Africa in many ways, this is one of them. Desertambition ( talk) 04:50, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
has come into common use. Further, I would ask the nominator to be mindful of WP:CIVIL; while I am ignorant of the broader discussions on this page and elsewhere, the insinuations you have made in this proposal about the motives of some editors is problematic at best. BilledMammal ( talk) 02:01, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Reference [29] of this article is incorrect. Delagoa does not mean "from Goa". Delagoa originates from Baía de Lagoa in Portuguese. Lagoon Bay in English.
Now that the objections to the name change have been rejected by government, and, more importantly from Wikipedia's perspective, with South African media extensively using the new name these days, is it time to change the name of the article per WP:NAMECHANGES? Greenman ( talk) 15:08, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Port Elizabeth be
renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.
result: Links:
current log •
target log
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Port Elizabeth → ? – Port Elizabeth was renamed to Gqberha. This is the name used by government services and local media.
https://www.news24.com/wheels/motorsport/gtc-heads-to-gqberha-with-title-battles-wide-open-20210525
https://www.enca.com/news/gqeberha-fire-businesses-and-vehicles-gutted
https://mype.co.za/new/gqberha-in-the-news-22-may-2021/146973/2021/05/
African news articles were considered "unreliable" before. I think this is incorrect and these sources should be taken seriously. There is no reason African media would be inherently unreliable.
Apologies for misspelling Gqeberha, Xhosa is not my first language.
Desertambition ( talk) 03:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. Havelock Jones ( talk) 11:58, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
A new RM paying regard to policy, particularly WP:NAMECHANGES, would be welcome), as this is now the third proposal on this topic I believe we should settle the question, at least for the moment.
independent, reliable English-language sources, I believe that when considering between two names without NPOV considerations even unreliable sources can give evidence that a term is in common use - though please note that I have not assessed any of these sources for reliability, and so am not making any claim in regards to their reliability or lack thereof.
even users on this page who oppose the name change tend to agree Gqeberha is going to be in vogue sooner or laterwhich indirectly means that it's not now. When it is going to be there, or if we have overwhelming evidence of its common usage in South African as well as other media outlets, I'll be more than happy to change my mind; my findings are such as presented, and I don't believe that "overwhelming" challenge is met here. I'm not getting into South African politics and race relations, because it's not a forum. Szmenderowiecki ( talk) 15:36, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Would you agree the Wikipedia stats are not relevant?The explanation you provide is fair, but it only shows something different: people don't care much about the new name, as otherwise there would have been a lot of name-changing (and, inherently, link-changing), which would mean that the ratio between Port Elizabeth and Gqeberha hits would have changed, either through direct search terms inside Wikipedia or through going through wikilinks (spoiler: it hasn't). The only thing that introduces bias here is Google search, so anyone referred from Google would hit as Port Elizabeth. But can it explain a 15-20-fold difference? I doubt it.
When I do a Google search over the last one month (8 months ago the change had not occured yet, and uptake was not immediate, so one month is more meaningful [...]Two notes here: first, the date when the name change occurred was on 23 February 2021, which is the starting date of all of my searches, and from my experience with name changes in Ukraine, these have been accepted in the media almost instantly; therefore, 8 months seems appropriate; and in fact, Google Trends don't see any change of relative usage of the terms at all, which means the term hasn't caught up (had it been at least marginally popular, it would have seen a gradual increase, see examples from Ukraine: Kropyvnytskyi [29], Kamianske [30], Bakhmut [31]). Second, the links you send me say "Hasło – "port elizabeth" – nie pasuje do żadnych wiadomości." [The search term "port elizabeth" has no related news stories], so yes, we all see different stuff in Google, that is, I don't see any of yours, sorry. Szmenderowiecki ( talk) 22:40, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Comment. The dispute over Port Elizabeth/Gqeberha will most probably be a fixture on the talk page of this article, therefore, I would ask all editors to consider this before escalating the talk page here into one of the lamest edit wars.
This
edit request to
Gqeberha has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
A protected redirect, Gqeberha , needs redirect category ( rcat) templates added and adjusted. Please modify it as follows:
#REDIRECT [[Port Elizabeth]] {{Redirect category shell| {{R from move}} }} {{R from official name}}
#REDIRECT [[Port Elizabeth]] {{Redirect category shell| {{R from move}} {{R from official name}} {{R with history}} {{R printworthy}} }}
The {{ Redirect category shell}} template is used to sort redirects into one or more categories. When {{ pp-protected}} and/or {{ pp-move}} suffice, the Redirect category shell template will detect the protection level(s) and categorize the redirect automatically. (Also, the categories will be automatically removed or changed when and if protection is lifted, raised or lowered.) Thank you in advance! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 03:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
A couple of years ago I posted this wondering if we could agree on a standard English pronunciation of the new name and was told that it was still up in the air. Im just wondering if this has changed. At least in the United States it's common for placenames of non-English origin to be pronounced in ways that fit the rhythm and sound of the English language, even if they arent particularly loyal to the original pronunciations ... many well-known French and Spanish names are good examples of this, and it's even quite common for the same words to have two different pronunciations. — Soap — 14:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)