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As our obligation is to be as factual as possible, I want to raise this matter for discussion to get it right for the Article and so help the public who may come to Wikipedia for accurate information.
The current article segment is a new entry (Nov 28) that overwrote a researched, critical article on the unlikely existence of Tibetan goji berries in any significant quantities on the world market. At present, it reads
Tibet and Mongolia The name Tibetan Goji berry is in common use in the health food market for berries from this plant that are have been grown in the Himalaya region. The term was invented by Dr. Bradley Dobos of the The Tanaduk Botanical Research Institute to promote and market the Tibetan and Mongolian variety of the wolfberry in the west. [4]. This source produces only about 280 tons of berries per year.
The four italicized areas are questionable
1. "...Himalaya region". Other than from global marketing sources, what evidence or even deductive reasoning exists to support wolfberries growing in commercial quantities amid the Himalayas whose foothills are above 10,000' altitude? Western Tibet is a region of subsistence agriculture with unfavorable climate, moisture and irrigation, growing season, soil conditions, and cultivation practices.
2. "... term was invented by Dr. Bradley Dobos". So it says on the Tanaduk website, but who actually can believe that when the Mandarin for wolfberry, gouqi, has been pronounced similarly to "goji" over recorded time? See further explanation above under "Badagnani"
3. promote and market the "Tibetan and Mongolian variety". First, a Tibetan varietal of Lycium barbarum may exist but is it reasonable to think its commercial volume is sufficient to be marketed? What resources exist in western Tibet that would enable commercial-size farming, drying, and especially transporting out of Tibet? It was just a few months ago that China established a train route in and out of Tibet. Were berries transported before then via camel or yak? I think there is no objective proof that Tibetan wolfberry products are real -- just marketers' claims and a gullible public accept this.
Second, why mention Mongolia, an autonomous region thousands of km from Tibet? There are numerous regions and provinces in China that produce commercial quantities of wolfberries. Mongolia represents no special qualities as a source from research I have done. Please supply evidence.
4. "... source produces only 280 tons of berries per year." Another unverified quote from the Tanaduk website. As Dr. Dobos and the Tanaduk Institute have no publications in accessible literature, it is difficult to accept this source as valid. Email to Dr. Dobos produces an "undeliverable" message.
I feel we need to critique the Tibetan goji berry story as a myth developed by income-minded marketers of goji juice and dried berry products. It's a charming story that has proved commercially popular by an unquestioning public.
Debate and feedback welcomed! -- Paul144 17:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
No other input on this topic so I'm proposing we go back to the original text that had been resident for many months and addresses misinformation on the internet about the uniqueness and special qualities of the "Tibetan" and "Mongolian" goji berry. I emphasize on the internet because this is the only location where information exists about Tibetan or Mongolian goji berries, i.e., there is no scientific or government information.
As previously evaluated and borne out by absence from credible, objective sources, the Tibetan and/or Mongolian goji berries (in commercial volumes supplying all of the vendors one can see on the web) are myths created by marketers of these products mainly in the USA and UK. Although an encyclopedia like Wikipedia should not normally engage in debate on commercial products, there is a prevalance of attention given the goji berry at present so consumers may come to Wikipedia looking for facts.
Notice this web essay published this past week http://www.foodproductdesign.com/blogs/doug/?m=art&a=6ch5144019.html
We need to address this issue objectively and not be persuaded by sympathies for Tibet or charming stories, undocumented anywhere in objective literature, such as our current article's reference to the Tibetan Tanaduk Institute whose publications and lead scientist can be found nowhere in the world's scientific community.
Concerning the section entitled Tibet and Mongolia was this previous text:
The name Tibetan Goji berry is in common use in the health food market for berries from this plant that are claimed to have been grown in the Himalaya region. Tibet as a significant wolfberry source is almost certainly a myth, however, as it is an unlikely region for commercial supplies of berries of any kind.
The Tibetan Plateau is more than 10,000 ft altitude with poor soil and arid climate conditions unfavorable for fruit crops. Defined by the geography of Tibet, year-round cold temperatures and frost would inhibit bud development and prevent fruit formation. Minimal subsistence agriculture and poor crop transportation facilities exist in Tibet. Although limited fertile regions suitable for crop production do exist in Tibet's river valleys [ [1]], there are no objective commercial, scientific, or government reports for commercial production of Lycium species ("goji" berries, wolfberries) from Tibet.
Discussion needs to be added for Mongolia (why these two geographically-disparate regions are linked together presently to discuss wolfberry is another mystery), as the Wikipedia treatise on the Geography of Mongolia assures it is another impoverished desert region unlikely to be growing fresh fruit of any kind, quality or quantity.
Inviting discussion and debate on this topic valuable as a public service, I suggest a 3 day period from now for consideration and input after which I intend to reinstate the critical discussion above. -- Paul144 20:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
It is acknowledged in the Article under Tibetan goji berry that berries may grow in some parts of Tibet, but evidence does not exist for commercial-volume production and scientific studies published under peer-review or independent contract lab assays. Please state your case. -- Paul144 18:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Why the Tanaduk website is trustworthy I have removed the paragraphs that falsely portray Tibet as a desert in which nothing grows. The Tanaduk website is clearly different from the bulk of commercial exploiters of the Goji berry name.
Why the Tanaduk Institute is Not Trustworthy
Lumos, thanks for bringing this debate to the discussion. Your list contains some activities of the Tanaduk that are credible and look productive. Let's hope good horticultural research is going on there and rigorous, accurate discoveries will eventually be published to share with the world.
As with any scientific organization claiming credibility, however, the Tanaduk must be held to a high standard. When inconsistencies, outright fabrications, misleading pseudo-science and conspicuous political motivations are present on the same website as credible information appears, the good is irreversibly contaminated by the bad.
Then, in my opinion, nothing from that source is trustworthy.
My evidence (not all of it)
I could go on for another page or two, but the point is made. The Tanaduk website self-destructs as a credible source. -- Paul144 03:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
This news released today [3] will require marketers and retailers of wolfberries (goji berry products including juices) throughout the EU to state nutritional facts and provide no misleading claims on their labels, assuring the death of the Tibetan goji berry marketing story. -- Paul144 18:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Typical of previous assessments of the UK FSA -- which reports to the European Medicines Agency, so has sweeping effects on EU food safety and standardization (influencing the world the way the FDA does) -- there won't be any way to skirt around the label requirements. No matter what it's called or where it's from, the magnifying lens will be applied. FYI -- in the UK, the berry has been popularized as "goji" just by public discussion, see [4], search on goji, Regions (approx. per capita results) -- Paul144 20:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I just carefully counted the number of seeds in a large specimen of dried Chinese gouqi and again counted 51. The article says 10-30. Can some of you give this a try (it takes about 10 minutes, using the tip of a sharpened pencil to count them out) and see how many seeds your cultivars have? Badagnani 08:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
US FDA seizures of wolfberries:
(cur) (last) 23:15-23:21, 15 December 2006 Badagnani (Talk | contribs | block) (→Wolfberry contamination) (undo)
I have never felt satisfied with how the botanical name was derived for wolfberry, Lycium barbarum. Most explanations (not by me, but others) seem deduced. I had researched this and found references to how Linnaeus assigned names. Lycium barbarum was first used apparently in 1753.
I learned that Linnaeus may have first considered the geographical origin of a plant to propose a new genus name. Because wolfberry was a native Asian plant, my sources speculated that Lycium came from the ancient region of Lydia (Greek, often confused as a Latin name) in western Asia (present day Turkey) and barbarum (Latin) means "foreign" which may have been apt for a region just being discovered by Europeans in the mid-18th century.
When I visited Wikipedia's tomato page, however, I found this reference: The word tomato derives from the Nahuatl language, tomatl. The specific name, lycopersicum, means "wolf-peach" (compare the related species S. lycocarpum, whose scientific name means "wolf-fruit", common name "wolf-apple").
Searching for "lyco" in Greek: lyco-, lyc-, lycos-, (Greek:wolf) [5]. It seems Lycium would safely be connected to the Greek, lyco-, so why would Linnaeus have linked this berry to wolves?
Chinese colleagues have told me the native legend is that wolves of mid-China were seen (hundreds of years ago) using the thick vines of wolfberry for cover, hunting small animals, and as a food source for themselves.
If this derivation is correct, it gives more depth to the common name "wolfberry" which is related via Solanaceae to tomato, the "wolfpeach". Have a look at the closeup picture of wolfberries in the article. Does each not look like a small plum tomato ( Roma tomato or San Marzano tomato)? -- Paul144 19:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Stefano. Please make a suggestion here at Discussion about what you'd like to see added.
I found a site indicating that the USDA has been cultivating wolfberry at their facility in Pullman, WA for over 40 years, now indicating it as a germplasm resource via seeds [6].
Using that site, I found that the British Natural History Museum has a Linnaean Plant Typification Project [7] where Lycium barbarum is documented as an original species catalogued and named by Linnaeus in 1753.
Interesting that Linnaeus described tomato (Solanum lycopersicum) first in his monograph (on page 185) and that Lycium barbarum came on page 192, so there was already a reference to give the name "wolfberry".
There is insufficient information, however, to educate us further about whether Linnaeus himself called Lycium barbarum "wolfberry" after he had already named tomato Solanum lycopersicum or "wolf-peach". -- Paul144 18:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
What is the evidence that commercially available "goji juice" is made from fresh, ripe berries rather than from reconstituted dried ones? If the former, the juice would have to be extracted in China, then shipped in liquid form (very expensive) or concentrated form (less expensive) to North America. Badagnani 20:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
1/28/2007 The direct link to Chet Day, A friendly skeptic looks at goji... is a commercial site. It has a direct link to "our products".
It should be removed.
Goji juice 00:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC) M Gordon
Isn't this a commercial site? http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wolfberry&curid=1147329&diff=104193203&oldid=104081986 Badagnani 23:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Removed material posted by 203.23.238.46. It was the only such post from this user...
We would ask that Earl Mindell's proof be backed up.
The following is taken from the Tibet Authentic website [9].
I hope that clears up the fact that there are companies out there that are able to distribute Goji berries worldwide in large amounts. Certainly not the extent of the crops produced in China, but at least are free from industrial farming techniques and do not contain trace elements of toxic chemicals and heavy metals that industrially farmed Goji berries have been shown to contain. Tibet Authentic have been approached to specify the location of their berry crops so we can confirm their origin.
This information may or may not be correct, but it certainly doesn't read as encyclopedic in its current form. Please edit accordingly. SERSeanCrane 14:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The article now has this text regarding wolfberries' use/preparation: "Wolfberries are usually used directly, and do not need to be rehydrated prior to use." This sentence, however, is poorly worded; in Chinese (and Korean, Japanese) culture, the dried berries are usually steeped in hot water, often with other herbs, to produce herbal teas, or boiled with meat and other herbs to produce a medicinal soup. The Chinese I've spoken to maintain that in Chinese culture they are not ever eaten "as is" from hand to mouth without cooking first, as some Western marketers recommend. I recommend changing the text to reflect this. Badagnani 19:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to start a debate on this topic as it often comes into focus about wolfberries in 3 significant ways that should be covered in the article:
1.dried berries are sometimes described as having a significant percentage of polysaccharides, around 30% of dry weight, a relatively large component with potential food value;
2.about 25% of all scientific publications on wolfberries have focused on polysaccharide properties, the largest category of research;
3.marketers of goji juice products claim polysaccharides have specific, receptor-mediated effects on cells, even indicating they have special defensive roles in the plant, characteristic spectral peaks that reveal definition of one berry's geographic origin from another, cellular receptors in mammals, and “master” control properties over other bioactive chemicals like hormones and neurotransmitters. This is visibly the most important marketed message for the uniqueness of wolfberries supposedly used to make Himalyan Goji Juice [12].
During the recently-aired investigative interview by CBC TV News with Earl Mindell -- a fascinating controversy in itself -- Mindell mentioned what he believes are special properties of goji berry polysaccharides [13].
What are polysaccharides? They're long-chain units of sugar molecules called starch or fiber that are used by plants in two ways – either for structural scaffolds (e.g., cellulose – the main structural component of plants -- is a polysaccharide) or for stored energy supplied by splitting off smaller sugar molecules for energy use as the plant grows. Photosynthesis uses sunlight, water and carbon dioxide to synthesize a plant's starch components such as glucose which chains into polysaccharides for fuel storage and structure.
When humans consume polysaccharide-rich foods, the nutritional benefit occurs as dietary fiber metabolized when the polysaccharides are fermented by the billions of bacteria in the large intestine – the Wikipedia article on dietary fiber describes these physiological actions and benefits of metabolizing fiber sources via fermentation occurring in the colon.
From other plants that have been well-researched for their polysaccharide content, physiological properties and potential health benefits are Ganoderma lucidum, -- mushrooms also called Reishi or Lingzhi, perhaps one of the most thoroughly-studied and effective herbs in Asian traditional medicine.
What is the science on wolfberry polysaccharides and what more can be said in the article?
1.Contract assays by different laboratories report consistently high polysaccharide content of 20-31% within the berries themselves
2.the scientific properties of wolfberry polysaccharides have been described only in laboratory research – 25 papers since 1998 addressing some of the same properties as for Lingzhi mushrooms which include immune-stimulation and activity against tumors in vitro, although none of these effects has been confirmed in humans by modern western science.
3.The concept that polysaccharides are “master molecules” is obscure to identify in origin – it is not even apparent why anyone would propose such a mechanism of action. The products of polysaccharide metabolism by bacterial fermentation -- short-chain fatty acids -- provide potential health benefits[ [14]] [15] [16]
Among most important of these are short-chain fatty acids such as butyric and acetic acids. Without any scientific evidence that polysaccharides have active physiological roles involving their own receptors as proposed by Earl Mindell and Goji Juice marketers, it may be concluded that this is another area of misrepresentation commonly used by these people to mystify and glorify the goji story without use of published science.
Simply stated, polysaccharides are a source of dietary fiber which, upon fermentation in the colon, yields products with health properties. There is no literature to indicate that polysaccharides are in control of other molecules or cellular functions as claimed by Earl Mindell. Available science indicates polysaccharides are passive, not active, molecules both to plants and to humans who consume them within plant foods, gaining nutritional benefits as from other sources of dietary fiber. -- Paul144 21:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Good. Back to biochemistry, I always wanted to understand more about the magic "polysaccharides" allegedly present in Lycium Barbarum. Thanks to Paul for inviting us to read more...and I tell you immediately that - with my deepest surprise - Mindell seems to be correct! My point of view - a bit long but I got excited - is the following:
I had a look to the last 4 paper in pubmed related to wolfberry, all of which are actualy dealing with its "polysaccharides". This one goes even further and analyses their structure.
The bottomline of those pubblications is that such "polysaccharides" seem to be bioactive (mainly showing some kind of antioxidant activity) in themselves. Importantly, they have nothing to do with "conventional" polysaccharides (the glucose polymers like cellulose or starch that Paul mentioned above). They have instead a complex structure - to cite again the latest article - "composed of 6 kinds of monosaccharides (Ara, Rha, Xyl, Man, Gal and Glc), galacturonic acid and 18 kinds of amino acids. CONCLUSION: LBP [lycium barbarum polysaccharide] is a kind of complex polysaccharides consisting of acidic heteropolysaccharides and polypeptide or protein, and LBP has Glycan-O-Ser glycopeptide structures".
Here is another article on Lycium barbarum glycopeptides
To me - a modest peptide chemist - this meant BOOM! "They are glycopeptides". It all make sense now. For unknown reasons, glycopeptides present in wolfberry have always been - wrongly - called "polysaccharides" and directly sold this way by Mindell & Co to "the goji customers".
Paul, I can confirm that (glyco)peptides do have: "specific, receptor-mediated effects on cells, even indicating they have special defensive roles in the plant [...] cellular receptors in mammals, and “master” control properties over other bioactive chemicals like hormones and neurotransmitters". Well, I admit I have never heard of any antioxidant glycopeptide, as those reportedly present in wolfberry, but I cannot exclude that they exist (and I'm too lazy to look in pubmed again).
To give you another example, glycopeptides are ultimately responsible for our blood groups (the A,B,AB and O nomenclature simply refers to groups of individuals having different glycopeptide chains at the blood cells surface). Just google for "glycopeptide" to enjoy a sudden dive into complex carbohydrates, peptides, antibiotics and immune sistem). Immune sistem ? Goji ? Does this ring a bell ?
We can now discuss that the way they are sold for their "characteristic spectral peaks" is pretty ridiculous...but that's another story. -- Stefano 21:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Fully agree with you Paul. It all depends on how resistant their chemical bonds are to our digestive enzymes both in the stomach and in the intestine. We can happily digest starch to glucose by ourselves, while we lack the enzymes to break cellulose or fructans, which are therefore considered "fibres" as they go unaltered all the way down to feed our intestinal host bacteria. As you correctly pointed out, what we learn from the articles I cited is merely that the components of "polysaccharides or whatever it is that has an antioxidant properties" in wolberry are some aminoacids and a bunch of carbohydrates. Not enough information to say anything conclusive. I tend to agree with you that most probably the O-glycan bond would be broken already in the mouth even before arriving to the stomach...and probably all the rest will fall apart in the stomach or possibly be fermented to SCFA as you suggested.
I propose we mention anyway in the article that wolfberries do contain these "polysaccharides" or "glycopeptides" or whatever they are, as demonstrated by several research groups, and also because they are increasingly mentioned in the commercial sites. What we need to do is to clearly indicate to those who come here to know more about "their goji" that the fact that "polysaccharides with characteristic spectral peaks" are present in wolfberry before they eat them does not mean much, until these are isolated, structurally characterised, and their putative (antioxidant, anticancer...antimindell) activity demonstrated. -- Stefano 22:56, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
WOW signor Badagnani...I am afraid that this is going to be rather boring and to take a looong time... :o)
WOW signor Badagnani...I am afraid that this is going to be rather boring and to take a looong time... :o)-- Stefano 23:05, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Ciao signor Badagnani...I am afraid that this is going to be rather boring and to take a looong time... I am not even able to correctly write this single sentence I had to write it 5 times before it became readible. Time to go to sleep for me! :o)-- Stefano 23:08, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
A disservice to consumers occurs when a credentialed spokesperson makes glorified statements about health values of a natural product when no scientific fact exists to support those claims. Such has occurred in the case of Earl Mindell as the authority figure speaking on behalf of a goji juice manufacturer. In his book called Goji: The Himalayan Health Secret (ed. 1, 2003), Mindell enters two general areas where trained, credible scientists do not go:
1) from ancient myths, legends and research too preliminary to allow any conclusions about health benefits, Mindell exaggerates the effects regular consumption of goji juice may have on its users, claiming more than two dozen health benefits (book chapter 2). Among these are longer life, lowered blood cholesterol, weight loss and cancer prevention – that is, major effects on major diseases. No peer-reviewed, published science exists to support these effects.
2) from Chinese abstracts and no research of his own, Mindell extrapolates preliminary science by others into an illogical theory, but publishes this in promotional literature that marketers of the juice use religiously to impress gullible consumers.
He does so by saying that eating wolfberries or drinking the juice yields four goji polysaccharides – these are long-chain sugar units digested into smaller carbohydrates or fermented as fiber (above discussion) that take on special control properties after ingestion. Interpreting Mindell's book, one would assume the new molecule becomes bioactive by forming protein-carbohydrate complexes called proteoglycans that have specific receptor-mediated actions. There is no published science at all to demonstrate this for goji berry polysaccharides.
Mindell further proposes these goji berry polysaccharide glycoconjugates are “in balance” in the goji juice to control and direct communications between cells, another fabrication without scientific evidence.
Lastly, Mindell makes a simple invalid inference that if a high spectral signal is found in certain goji berries, then this signal must be associated with the four master polysaccharides he proposes [17].
There is no published science to support a relationship between spectral signal and specific polysaccharides. Publications on Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy, FTIR, indicate it can be used to “fingerprint” goji or other plant species from different cultivation regions, but this does not rely on polysaccharides specifically, nor is it widely accepted scientifically or in common practice within the berry industry.
There are only three preliminary publications (two by the same Beijing research group; from original Chinese, so only English abstracts are available) describing use of this method on wolfberries and none since 2004, indicating a relatively dormant research topic [18] [19] [20] .
People consulting Wikipedia come here possibly supplanted with misinformation about goji] berries as provided by Mindell's writing and public presentations. It is our obligation to expose fraud where it exists, discuss science here as thoroughly as possible, then insert the best facts into the Article. -- Paul144 20:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Here is the (simply shameless) relevant part of “the book”: ***Now armed with the FT-IR spectral signature technique, goji scientists began to collect samples of Lycium species from every well known growing region throughout Asia: Ningxia, Xinjiang, Gansu, Tianjin Shi, Qinghai, Shanxi, Inner Mongolia, Sichuan andTibet. As they fed the berries into the spectrometer, an interesting pattern began to emerge. There seemed to be a great similarity between the spectral signatures of goji berries from each of these regions. That was to be expected, as all goji varieties have a close family resemblance. They are all of the Lyciumgenus. There were several peaks, however, that varied greatly in height for different samples of berries. Spectral signature graphs of berries from Xinjiang and Ningxia tended to exhibit the highest peaks, with the rest of the samples showing peaks that were lower to varying degrees. To the researchers, the discovery of these peaks indicated that there might be some unknown active compounds present in the goji berry, and that they were found in the famous berries of Ningxia and Xinjiang at higher levels than in the less renowned berries. […] It had become obvious that the best goji berries were those with the highest peaks on their spectral signature graphs. Now it was time to find out what phytochemicals were responsible for those peaks. From information gleaned from the spectral signatures, scientists were able to determine the chemical nature of the unnamed active compounds in the goji berry. They did not know their exact structure, but they knew that they would be looking for bioactive polysaccharides, and that made them very excited. Until recent years, scientists had lumped all polysaccharides together with other carbohydrates such as starches and sugars. They had considered them to be of value only as a source of energy. But that had all changed when it was discovered that certain types of polysaccharides could cause profound and beneficial changes in the human body. What are Bioactive Polysaccharides? Bioactive polysaccharides, also called proteoglycans, are a family of complex carbohydrates that are bound to proteins. They are produced by some plants as an extremely effective defense mechanism against attack by viruses, bacteria, fungi, soil-borne parasites, cell mutations, toxic pollutants and environmental free radicals. ***
A couple of comments: - IR is a very rough technique used since ever (the “FT” part is just a mathematical elaboration of the spectra obtained) to get a very first idea on the structure of molecules you are faced with on the basis of the chemical bond they contain. Nowadays it is mainly applied for very specific studies on specific bonds. Of course it may be used to “fingerprint” Goji “polysaccharides” (you get an infrared spectra resulting from hundreds of overlapping absorptions of different bonds of a mixture of different substances at different concentrations and compare this mess with another mess coming from somewhere else and notice that they are different. WOW! “A spectral signature!” I am going to order the chinese articles about FTIR to have a look at these spectra). There are so many more useful analytical techniques (NMR, Mass spectroscopy) which are now used routinely to get adequate information and are carried out after an at least partial purification of the substances you are examining (rather than “feeding the berries to the spectrophotometer”). Part of these procedures were actually used in the article I cited before to characterize wolfberry glycopeptides. So, there is some hope.
- Proteoglycans are a very specific group of glycoproteins having a number of characteristic carbohydrate chains, which by the way DO NOT seem to be present in goji according to the only available article where their structure was elucidated (“LBP was composed of 6 kinds of monosaccharides (Ara, Rha, Xyl, Man, Gal and Glc and galacturonic acid”). Here is an article which perhaps makes it clearer the structure of these glycoconjugates.
Until further reliable structural studies are done, probably “glycoconjugate” is a vague enough term to be used in the article to define wolfberry “polysaccharides”.
Guys, I had no idea people could go so far with misinformation. I do feel sorry for those reading this “book” and actually believing it. My question for you as wiki experts is: is it an article in wikipedia the right place to expose Dr Mindell as a charlatan ? -- Stefano 22:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
It must be noted that in the broadcast, the interviewer attempted to assert the Himalayan Goji Berry properties to the Himalayan Goji Juice. The actual Goji Berry properties and the Himalayan Goji Juice are different for a specific reason in isolating the four unique polysaccharides attributed to the Himalayan Goji Berry in juice form. Certain attributes of the berry have been intentionally removed such as proteins. The Himalayan Goji Juice produced by the U.S. Company states on its label that a 1 liter bottle contains reconstituted Himalayan goji juice from whole Lycium barbarum fruit, grape juice concentrate, pear juice concentrate, apple juice concentrate, pear pruee and natural flavor, with sodium benzoate and potassium sorbated added to maintain freshness. The other additive ingredients are used for flavor and preservation.
Does wolfberry contain nicotine? Eggplant and other solanum vegetables, which are related to wolfberry, do; see, for example, http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/drugs.html -- a study on breastfeeding and the use of alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and marijuana -- which says, "avoid vegetables containing considerable amounts of nicotine - eggplant, green and pureed tomatoes and cauliflower. Ten grams of eggplant provides the same amount of nicotine obtained in three hours in a room with minimal tobacco smoke (Laurence 1985)." (For the context of this sentence, realize that 10g is very small -- a typical eggplant portion is more like 100g.) This link is very interesting, and I recommend it. Eggplant apparently contains copious amounts of nicotine; tobacco is by far not the only plant to do so. Badagnani 21:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
"Squawberry" and "Desert Thorn" seem to be more vernacular names for Lycium species, in this case Lycium andersonii. Badagnani 08:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
We need to get a source for the purported poem about wolfberries by Liu Yuxi. None of the websites that cite the poem state in which book it may be found. Badagnani 06:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The text of Liu Yuxi's Tang Dynasty-era poem, in 7-syllable phrases--which apparently references wolfberries--is as follows. It seems that the actual name wolfberry isn't in the poem itself but in the introduction or title. The poem mentions "deep/blood red berries" ( 殷 红 子), however.
卷360_8 「楚州开元寺北院枸杞临井繁茂可观群贤赋诗因以继和」刘禹锡
from http://www.lingshidao.com/gushi/liuyuxi.htm (seems to be Liu's complete poems, in simplified characters). Badagnani 04:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Two interesting things in this poem: the character 灵 is the same as the first syllable in Lingzhou, an ancient city in Ningxia, and the line 根 老 新 成 瑞 犬 形 seems to imply that the plant's roots look like a dog. It's the hardest part of the poem to figure out. Badagnani 05:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Lycium halimifolium Miller should be discussed in the article--what is it? Some websites say it's essentially the same as L. barbarum. Also, what are the specific differences between L. chinense and L. barbarum? I'm not sure the article is clear about that either. Badagnani 19:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Lycium root bark (dìgǔpí; 地骨皮) should be given serious treatment, as the article is not just about berries. (Wouldn't it be funny if this part of the plant were to have been the one that caught on in the West?) Badagnani 19:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Should these species be added? One particularly interesting one is the "black-fruited wolfberry," which is said to grow in Tibet and other dry, cold places with saline soils. Badagnani 22:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
==Another Chinese website== This chinese website has information about the specific times of the year of the harvest, and also explains why it's called "wolfberry" (because the root, when dug up, is in the shape of a dog). Is that verifiable? Badagnani 05:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Need translation of this text about the "Immortals Village" supposedly recognized by an ancient king, in Penglai County, where every household has a wolfberry plant: 相 传 蓬 莱 县 南 丘 村 Badagnani 05:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
蓬莱县 = Penglai County. Is this in Shandong? Badagnani 06:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Maybe Penglai City -- home to the Eight Immortals? Badagnani 06:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Historical information here, to evaluate for inclusion. Badagnani 08:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The thesis of this Chinese article is that the evidence shows that wolfberries were described in Shang times, and even well before, used primarily to produce fermented alcoholic beverages (i.e. wines). Needs to be evaluated (keeping in mind that it could be considered speculative propaganda from a wolfberry producing region). Badagnani 08:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The use of the character 杞 in the Shi Jing may refer to the wolfberry, or maybe to something else: the willow tree, or the "medlar" fruit (possibly Crataegus, the Chinese Hawthorn). 杞 appears in poems 76, 162, 169, 172, 174, 204, and 205. The modern name 枸杞 is never used in the Shi Jing, so it isn't clear exactly what plant is being referred to in each case. Badagnani 21:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Check out the references by cutting and pasting 杞 into a CONTROL-F search through this website, which contains the full text of the Shi Jing. Badagnani 21:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
There are some interesting articles relating to Goji at this site: http://www.freelifegojinews.com/ SERSeanCrane 05:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
From above, News Site -- this is information that should be given a separate section in the Article.
People using Google to search for "wolfberry" or "goji" will find Wikipedia near the top of retrieved searches, and will come to the Article for facts.
I suggest we build an explanation of fraud that is in the goji juice and dried berry industries (e.g., Authentic Tibetan Goji Berries), together, arguably, 90%+ of all wolfberry products sold today in the world outside of China.
Here's a possible title and list of topics -- let's flesh this out here first to get it right -- input invited by anyone
Title: Fraud Exposed in Marketing of Himalayan Goji Juice and Tibetan Goji Berries
Topics pertaining to both:
-- Paul144 18:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
This section diverges from the topic and uses unencyclopedic language. I have trimmed it down and added a citation to support the assertions. Lumos3 10:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
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As our obligation is to be as factual as possible, I want to raise this matter for discussion to get it right for the Article and so help the public who may come to Wikipedia for accurate information.
The current article segment is a new entry (Nov 28) that overwrote a researched, critical article on the unlikely existence of Tibetan goji berries in any significant quantities on the world market. At present, it reads
Tibet and Mongolia The name Tibetan Goji berry is in common use in the health food market for berries from this plant that are have been grown in the Himalaya region. The term was invented by Dr. Bradley Dobos of the The Tanaduk Botanical Research Institute to promote and market the Tibetan and Mongolian variety of the wolfberry in the west. [4]. This source produces only about 280 tons of berries per year.
The four italicized areas are questionable
1. "...Himalaya region". Other than from global marketing sources, what evidence or even deductive reasoning exists to support wolfberries growing in commercial quantities amid the Himalayas whose foothills are above 10,000' altitude? Western Tibet is a region of subsistence agriculture with unfavorable climate, moisture and irrigation, growing season, soil conditions, and cultivation practices.
2. "... term was invented by Dr. Bradley Dobos". So it says on the Tanaduk website, but who actually can believe that when the Mandarin for wolfberry, gouqi, has been pronounced similarly to "goji" over recorded time? See further explanation above under "Badagnani"
3. promote and market the "Tibetan and Mongolian variety". First, a Tibetan varietal of Lycium barbarum may exist but is it reasonable to think its commercial volume is sufficient to be marketed? What resources exist in western Tibet that would enable commercial-size farming, drying, and especially transporting out of Tibet? It was just a few months ago that China established a train route in and out of Tibet. Were berries transported before then via camel or yak? I think there is no objective proof that Tibetan wolfberry products are real -- just marketers' claims and a gullible public accept this.
Second, why mention Mongolia, an autonomous region thousands of km from Tibet? There are numerous regions and provinces in China that produce commercial quantities of wolfberries. Mongolia represents no special qualities as a source from research I have done. Please supply evidence.
4. "... source produces only 280 tons of berries per year." Another unverified quote from the Tanaduk website. As Dr. Dobos and the Tanaduk Institute have no publications in accessible literature, it is difficult to accept this source as valid. Email to Dr. Dobos produces an "undeliverable" message.
I feel we need to critique the Tibetan goji berry story as a myth developed by income-minded marketers of goji juice and dried berry products. It's a charming story that has proved commercially popular by an unquestioning public.
Debate and feedback welcomed! -- Paul144 17:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
No other input on this topic so I'm proposing we go back to the original text that had been resident for many months and addresses misinformation on the internet about the uniqueness and special qualities of the "Tibetan" and "Mongolian" goji berry. I emphasize on the internet because this is the only location where information exists about Tibetan or Mongolian goji berries, i.e., there is no scientific or government information.
As previously evaluated and borne out by absence from credible, objective sources, the Tibetan and/or Mongolian goji berries (in commercial volumes supplying all of the vendors one can see on the web) are myths created by marketers of these products mainly in the USA and UK. Although an encyclopedia like Wikipedia should not normally engage in debate on commercial products, there is a prevalance of attention given the goji berry at present so consumers may come to Wikipedia looking for facts.
Notice this web essay published this past week http://www.foodproductdesign.com/blogs/doug/?m=art&a=6ch5144019.html
We need to address this issue objectively and not be persuaded by sympathies for Tibet or charming stories, undocumented anywhere in objective literature, such as our current article's reference to the Tibetan Tanaduk Institute whose publications and lead scientist can be found nowhere in the world's scientific community.
Concerning the section entitled Tibet and Mongolia was this previous text:
The name Tibetan Goji berry is in common use in the health food market for berries from this plant that are claimed to have been grown in the Himalaya region. Tibet as a significant wolfberry source is almost certainly a myth, however, as it is an unlikely region for commercial supplies of berries of any kind.
The Tibetan Plateau is more than 10,000 ft altitude with poor soil and arid climate conditions unfavorable for fruit crops. Defined by the geography of Tibet, year-round cold temperatures and frost would inhibit bud development and prevent fruit formation. Minimal subsistence agriculture and poor crop transportation facilities exist in Tibet. Although limited fertile regions suitable for crop production do exist in Tibet's river valleys [ [1]], there are no objective commercial, scientific, or government reports for commercial production of Lycium species ("goji" berries, wolfberries) from Tibet.
Discussion needs to be added for Mongolia (why these two geographically-disparate regions are linked together presently to discuss wolfberry is another mystery), as the Wikipedia treatise on the Geography of Mongolia assures it is another impoverished desert region unlikely to be growing fresh fruit of any kind, quality or quantity.
Inviting discussion and debate on this topic valuable as a public service, I suggest a 3 day period from now for consideration and input after which I intend to reinstate the critical discussion above. -- Paul144 20:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
It is acknowledged in the Article under Tibetan goji berry that berries may grow in some parts of Tibet, but evidence does not exist for commercial-volume production and scientific studies published under peer-review or independent contract lab assays. Please state your case. -- Paul144 18:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Why the Tanaduk website is trustworthy I have removed the paragraphs that falsely portray Tibet as a desert in which nothing grows. The Tanaduk website is clearly different from the bulk of commercial exploiters of the Goji berry name.
Why the Tanaduk Institute is Not Trustworthy
Lumos, thanks for bringing this debate to the discussion. Your list contains some activities of the Tanaduk that are credible and look productive. Let's hope good horticultural research is going on there and rigorous, accurate discoveries will eventually be published to share with the world.
As with any scientific organization claiming credibility, however, the Tanaduk must be held to a high standard. When inconsistencies, outright fabrications, misleading pseudo-science and conspicuous political motivations are present on the same website as credible information appears, the good is irreversibly contaminated by the bad.
Then, in my opinion, nothing from that source is trustworthy.
My evidence (not all of it)
I could go on for another page or two, but the point is made. The Tanaduk website self-destructs as a credible source. -- Paul144 03:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
This news released today [3] will require marketers and retailers of wolfberries (goji berry products including juices) throughout the EU to state nutritional facts and provide no misleading claims on their labels, assuring the death of the Tibetan goji berry marketing story. -- Paul144 18:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Typical of previous assessments of the UK FSA -- which reports to the European Medicines Agency, so has sweeping effects on EU food safety and standardization (influencing the world the way the FDA does) -- there won't be any way to skirt around the label requirements. No matter what it's called or where it's from, the magnifying lens will be applied. FYI -- in the UK, the berry has been popularized as "goji" just by public discussion, see [4], search on goji, Regions (approx. per capita results) -- Paul144 20:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I just carefully counted the number of seeds in a large specimen of dried Chinese gouqi and again counted 51. The article says 10-30. Can some of you give this a try (it takes about 10 minutes, using the tip of a sharpened pencil to count them out) and see how many seeds your cultivars have? Badagnani 08:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
US FDA seizures of wolfberries:
(cur) (last) 23:15-23:21, 15 December 2006 Badagnani (Talk | contribs | block) (→Wolfberry contamination) (undo)
I have never felt satisfied with how the botanical name was derived for wolfberry, Lycium barbarum. Most explanations (not by me, but others) seem deduced. I had researched this and found references to how Linnaeus assigned names. Lycium barbarum was first used apparently in 1753.
I learned that Linnaeus may have first considered the geographical origin of a plant to propose a new genus name. Because wolfberry was a native Asian plant, my sources speculated that Lycium came from the ancient region of Lydia (Greek, often confused as a Latin name) in western Asia (present day Turkey) and barbarum (Latin) means "foreign" which may have been apt for a region just being discovered by Europeans in the mid-18th century.
When I visited Wikipedia's tomato page, however, I found this reference: The word tomato derives from the Nahuatl language, tomatl. The specific name, lycopersicum, means "wolf-peach" (compare the related species S. lycocarpum, whose scientific name means "wolf-fruit", common name "wolf-apple").
Searching for "lyco" in Greek: lyco-, lyc-, lycos-, (Greek:wolf) [5]. It seems Lycium would safely be connected to the Greek, lyco-, so why would Linnaeus have linked this berry to wolves?
Chinese colleagues have told me the native legend is that wolves of mid-China were seen (hundreds of years ago) using the thick vines of wolfberry for cover, hunting small animals, and as a food source for themselves.
If this derivation is correct, it gives more depth to the common name "wolfberry" which is related via Solanaceae to tomato, the "wolfpeach". Have a look at the closeup picture of wolfberries in the article. Does each not look like a small plum tomato ( Roma tomato or San Marzano tomato)? -- Paul144 19:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Stefano. Please make a suggestion here at Discussion about what you'd like to see added.
I found a site indicating that the USDA has been cultivating wolfberry at their facility in Pullman, WA for over 40 years, now indicating it as a germplasm resource via seeds [6].
Using that site, I found that the British Natural History Museum has a Linnaean Plant Typification Project [7] where Lycium barbarum is documented as an original species catalogued and named by Linnaeus in 1753.
Interesting that Linnaeus described tomato (Solanum lycopersicum) first in his monograph (on page 185) and that Lycium barbarum came on page 192, so there was already a reference to give the name "wolfberry".
There is insufficient information, however, to educate us further about whether Linnaeus himself called Lycium barbarum "wolfberry" after he had already named tomato Solanum lycopersicum or "wolf-peach". -- Paul144 18:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
What is the evidence that commercially available "goji juice" is made from fresh, ripe berries rather than from reconstituted dried ones? If the former, the juice would have to be extracted in China, then shipped in liquid form (very expensive) or concentrated form (less expensive) to North America. Badagnani 20:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
1/28/2007 The direct link to Chet Day, A friendly skeptic looks at goji... is a commercial site. It has a direct link to "our products".
It should be removed.
Goji juice 00:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC) M Gordon
Isn't this a commercial site? http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wolfberry&curid=1147329&diff=104193203&oldid=104081986 Badagnani 23:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Removed material posted by 203.23.238.46. It was the only such post from this user...
We would ask that Earl Mindell's proof be backed up.
The following is taken from the Tibet Authentic website [9].
I hope that clears up the fact that there are companies out there that are able to distribute Goji berries worldwide in large amounts. Certainly not the extent of the crops produced in China, but at least are free from industrial farming techniques and do not contain trace elements of toxic chemicals and heavy metals that industrially farmed Goji berries have been shown to contain. Tibet Authentic have been approached to specify the location of their berry crops so we can confirm their origin.
This information may or may not be correct, but it certainly doesn't read as encyclopedic in its current form. Please edit accordingly. SERSeanCrane 14:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The article now has this text regarding wolfberries' use/preparation: "Wolfberries are usually used directly, and do not need to be rehydrated prior to use." This sentence, however, is poorly worded; in Chinese (and Korean, Japanese) culture, the dried berries are usually steeped in hot water, often with other herbs, to produce herbal teas, or boiled with meat and other herbs to produce a medicinal soup. The Chinese I've spoken to maintain that in Chinese culture they are not ever eaten "as is" from hand to mouth without cooking first, as some Western marketers recommend. I recommend changing the text to reflect this. Badagnani 19:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to start a debate on this topic as it often comes into focus about wolfberries in 3 significant ways that should be covered in the article:
1.dried berries are sometimes described as having a significant percentage of polysaccharides, around 30% of dry weight, a relatively large component with potential food value;
2.about 25% of all scientific publications on wolfberries have focused on polysaccharide properties, the largest category of research;
3.marketers of goji juice products claim polysaccharides have specific, receptor-mediated effects on cells, even indicating they have special defensive roles in the plant, characteristic spectral peaks that reveal definition of one berry's geographic origin from another, cellular receptors in mammals, and “master” control properties over other bioactive chemicals like hormones and neurotransmitters. This is visibly the most important marketed message for the uniqueness of wolfberries supposedly used to make Himalyan Goji Juice [12].
During the recently-aired investigative interview by CBC TV News with Earl Mindell -- a fascinating controversy in itself -- Mindell mentioned what he believes are special properties of goji berry polysaccharides [13].
What are polysaccharides? They're long-chain units of sugar molecules called starch or fiber that are used by plants in two ways – either for structural scaffolds (e.g., cellulose – the main structural component of plants -- is a polysaccharide) or for stored energy supplied by splitting off smaller sugar molecules for energy use as the plant grows. Photosynthesis uses sunlight, water and carbon dioxide to synthesize a plant's starch components such as glucose which chains into polysaccharides for fuel storage and structure.
When humans consume polysaccharide-rich foods, the nutritional benefit occurs as dietary fiber metabolized when the polysaccharides are fermented by the billions of bacteria in the large intestine – the Wikipedia article on dietary fiber describes these physiological actions and benefits of metabolizing fiber sources via fermentation occurring in the colon.
From other plants that have been well-researched for their polysaccharide content, physiological properties and potential health benefits are Ganoderma lucidum, -- mushrooms also called Reishi or Lingzhi, perhaps one of the most thoroughly-studied and effective herbs in Asian traditional medicine.
What is the science on wolfberry polysaccharides and what more can be said in the article?
1.Contract assays by different laboratories report consistently high polysaccharide content of 20-31% within the berries themselves
2.the scientific properties of wolfberry polysaccharides have been described only in laboratory research – 25 papers since 1998 addressing some of the same properties as for Lingzhi mushrooms which include immune-stimulation and activity against tumors in vitro, although none of these effects has been confirmed in humans by modern western science.
3.The concept that polysaccharides are “master molecules” is obscure to identify in origin – it is not even apparent why anyone would propose such a mechanism of action. The products of polysaccharide metabolism by bacterial fermentation -- short-chain fatty acids -- provide potential health benefits[ [14]] [15] [16]
Among most important of these are short-chain fatty acids such as butyric and acetic acids. Without any scientific evidence that polysaccharides have active physiological roles involving their own receptors as proposed by Earl Mindell and Goji Juice marketers, it may be concluded that this is another area of misrepresentation commonly used by these people to mystify and glorify the goji story without use of published science.
Simply stated, polysaccharides are a source of dietary fiber which, upon fermentation in the colon, yields products with health properties. There is no literature to indicate that polysaccharides are in control of other molecules or cellular functions as claimed by Earl Mindell. Available science indicates polysaccharides are passive, not active, molecules both to plants and to humans who consume them within plant foods, gaining nutritional benefits as from other sources of dietary fiber. -- Paul144 21:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Good. Back to biochemistry, I always wanted to understand more about the magic "polysaccharides" allegedly present in Lycium Barbarum. Thanks to Paul for inviting us to read more...and I tell you immediately that - with my deepest surprise - Mindell seems to be correct! My point of view - a bit long but I got excited - is the following:
I had a look to the last 4 paper in pubmed related to wolfberry, all of which are actualy dealing with its "polysaccharides". This one goes even further and analyses their structure.
The bottomline of those pubblications is that such "polysaccharides" seem to be bioactive (mainly showing some kind of antioxidant activity) in themselves. Importantly, they have nothing to do with "conventional" polysaccharides (the glucose polymers like cellulose or starch that Paul mentioned above). They have instead a complex structure - to cite again the latest article - "composed of 6 kinds of monosaccharides (Ara, Rha, Xyl, Man, Gal and Glc), galacturonic acid and 18 kinds of amino acids. CONCLUSION: LBP [lycium barbarum polysaccharide] is a kind of complex polysaccharides consisting of acidic heteropolysaccharides and polypeptide or protein, and LBP has Glycan-O-Ser glycopeptide structures".
Here is another article on Lycium barbarum glycopeptides
To me - a modest peptide chemist - this meant BOOM! "They are glycopeptides". It all make sense now. For unknown reasons, glycopeptides present in wolfberry have always been - wrongly - called "polysaccharides" and directly sold this way by Mindell & Co to "the goji customers".
Paul, I can confirm that (glyco)peptides do have: "specific, receptor-mediated effects on cells, even indicating they have special defensive roles in the plant [...] cellular receptors in mammals, and “master” control properties over other bioactive chemicals like hormones and neurotransmitters". Well, I admit I have never heard of any antioxidant glycopeptide, as those reportedly present in wolfberry, but I cannot exclude that they exist (and I'm too lazy to look in pubmed again).
To give you another example, glycopeptides are ultimately responsible for our blood groups (the A,B,AB and O nomenclature simply refers to groups of individuals having different glycopeptide chains at the blood cells surface). Just google for "glycopeptide" to enjoy a sudden dive into complex carbohydrates, peptides, antibiotics and immune sistem). Immune sistem ? Goji ? Does this ring a bell ?
We can now discuss that the way they are sold for their "characteristic spectral peaks" is pretty ridiculous...but that's another story. -- Stefano 21:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Fully agree with you Paul. It all depends on how resistant their chemical bonds are to our digestive enzymes both in the stomach and in the intestine. We can happily digest starch to glucose by ourselves, while we lack the enzymes to break cellulose or fructans, which are therefore considered "fibres" as they go unaltered all the way down to feed our intestinal host bacteria. As you correctly pointed out, what we learn from the articles I cited is merely that the components of "polysaccharides or whatever it is that has an antioxidant properties" in wolberry are some aminoacids and a bunch of carbohydrates. Not enough information to say anything conclusive. I tend to agree with you that most probably the O-glycan bond would be broken already in the mouth even before arriving to the stomach...and probably all the rest will fall apart in the stomach or possibly be fermented to SCFA as you suggested.
I propose we mention anyway in the article that wolfberries do contain these "polysaccharides" or "glycopeptides" or whatever they are, as demonstrated by several research groups, and also because they are increasingly mentioned in the commercial sites. What we need to do is to clearly indicate to those who come here to know more about "their goji" that the fact that "polysaccharides with characteristic spectral peaks" are present in wolfberry before they eat them does not mean much, until these are isolated, structurally characterised, and their putative (antioxidant, anticancer...antimindell) activity demonstrated. -- Stefano 22:56, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
WOW signor Badagnani...I am afraid that this is going to be rather boring and to take a looong time... :o)
WOW signor Badagnani...I am afraid that this is going to be rather boring and to take a looong time... :o)-- Stefano 23:05, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Ciao signor Badagnani...I am afraid that this is going to be rather boring and to take a looong time... I am not even able to correctly write this single sentence I had to write it 5 times before it became readible. Time to go to sleep for me! :o)-- Stefano 23:08, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
A disservice to consumers occurs when a credentialed spokesperson makes glorified statements about health values of a natural product when no scientific fact exists to support those claims. Such has occurred in the case of Earl Mindell as the authority figure speaking on behalf of a goji juice manufacturer. In his book called Goji: The Himalayan Health Secret (ed. 1, 2003), Mindell enters two general areas where trained, credible scientists do not go:
1) from ancient myths, legends and research too preliminary to allow any conclusions about health benefits, Mindell exaggerates the effects regular consumption of goji juice may have on its users, claiming more than two dozen health benefits (book chapter 2). Among these are longer life, lowered blood cholesterol, weight loss and cancer prevention – that is, major effects on major diseases. No peer-reviewed, published science exists to support these effects.
2) from Chinese abstracts and no research of his own, Mindell extrapolates preliminary science by others into an illogical theory, but publishes this in promotional literature that marketers of the juice use religiously to impress gullible consumers.
He does so by saying that eating wolfberries or drinking the juice yields four goji polysaccharides – these are long-chain sugar units digested into smaller carbohydrates or fermented as fiber (above discussion) that take on special control properties after ingestion. Interpreting Mindell's book, one would assume the new molecule becomes bioactive by forming protein-carbohydrate complexes called proteoglycans that have specific receptor-mediated actions. There is no published science at all to demonstrate this for goji berry polysaccharides.
Mindell further proposes these goji berry polysaccharide glycoconjugates are “in balance” in the goji juice to control and direct communications between cells, another fabrication without scientific evidence.
Lastly, Mindell makes a simple invalid inference that if a high spectral signal is found in certain goji berries, then this signal must be associated with the four master polysaccharides he proposes [17].
There is no published science to support a relationship between spectral signal and specific polysaccharides. Publications on Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy, FTIR, indicate it can be used to “fingerprint” goji or other plant species from different cultivation regions, but this does not rely on polysaccharides specifically, nor is it widely accepted scientifically or in common practice within the berry industry.
There are only three preliminary publications (two by the same Beijing research group; from original Chinese, so only English abstracts are available) describing use of this method on wolfberries and none since 2004, indicating a relatively dormant research topic [18] [19] [20] .
People consulting Wikipedia come here possibly supplanted with misinformation about goji] berries as provided by Mindell's writing and public presentations. It is our obligation to expose fraud where it exists, discuss science here as thoroughly as possible, then insert the best facts into the Article. -- Paul144 20:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Here is the (simply shameless) relevant part of “the book”: ***Now armed with the FT-IR spectral signature technique, goji scientists began to collect samples of Lycium species from every well known growing region throughout Asia: Ningxia, Xinjiang, Gansu, Tianjin Shi, Qinghai, Shanxi, Inner Mongolia, Sichuan andTibet. As they fed the berries into the spectrometer, an interesting pattern began to emerge. There seemed to be a great similarity between the spectral signatures of goji berries from each of these regions. That was to be expected, as all goji varieties have a close family resemblance. They are all of the Lyciumgenus. There were several peaks, however, that varied greatly in height for different samples of berries. Spectral signature graphs of berries from Xinjiang and Ningxia tended to exhibit the highest peaks, with the rest of the samples showing peaks that were lower to varying degrees. To the researchers, the discovery of these peaks indicated that there might be some unknown active compounds present in the goji berry, and that they were found in the famous berries of Ningxia and Xinjiang at higher levels than in the less renowned berries. […] It had become obvious that the best goji berries were those with the highest peaks on their spectral signature graphs. Now it was time to find out what phytochemicals were responsible for those peaks. From information gleaned from the spectral signatures, scientists were able to determine the chemical nature of the unnamed active compounds in the goji berry. They did not know their exact structure, but they knew that they would be looking for bioactive polysaccharides, and that made them very excited. Until recent years, scientists had lumped all polysaccharides together with other carbohydrates such as starches and sugars. They had considered them to be of value only as a source of energy. But that had all changed when it was discovered that certain types of polysaccharides could cause profound and beneficial changes in the human body. What are Bioactive Polysaccharides? Bioactive polysaccharides, also called proteoglycans, are a family of complex carbohydrates that are bound to proteins. They are produced by some plants as an extremely effective defense mechanism against attack by viruses, bacteria, fungi, soil-borne parasites, cell mutations, toxic pollutants and environmental free radicals. ***
A couple of comments: - IR is a very rough technique used since ever (the “FT” part is just a mathematical elaboration of the spectra obtained) to get a very first idea on the structure of molecules you are faced with on the basis of the chemical bond they contain. Nowadays it is mainly applied for very specific studies on specific bonds. Of course it may be used to “fingerprint” Goji “polysaccharides” (you get an infrared spectra resulting from hundreds of overlapping absorptions of different bonds of a mixture of different substances at different concentrations and compare this mess with another mess coming from somewhere else and notice that they are different. WOW! “A spectral signature!” I am going to order the chinese articles about FTIR to have a look at these spectra). There are so many more useful analytical techniques (NMR, Mass spectroscopy) which are now used routinely to get adequate information and are carried out after an at least partial purification of the substances you are examining (rather than “feeding the berries to the spectrophotometer”). Part of these procedures were actually used in the article I cited before to characterize wolfberry glycopeptides. So, there is some hope.
- Proteoglycans are a very specific group of glycoproteins having a number of characteristic carbohydrate chains, which by the way DO NOT seem to be present in goji according to the only available article where their structure was elucidated (“LBP was composed of 6 kinds of monosaccharides (Ara, Rha, Xyl, Man, Gal and Glc and galacturonic acid”). Here is an article which perhaps makes it clearer the structure of these glycoconjugates.
Until further reliable structural studies are done, probably “glycoconjugate” is a vague enough term to be used in the article to define wolfberry “polysaccharides”.
Guys, I had no idea people could go so far with misinformation. I do feel sorry for those reading this “book” and actually believing it. My question for you as wiki experts is: is it an article in wikipedia the right place to expose Dr Mindell as a charlatan ? -- Stefano 22:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
It must be noted that in the broadcast, the interviewer attempted to assert the Himalayan Goji Berry properties to the Himalayan Goji Juice. The actual Goji Berry properties and the Himalayan Goji Juice are different for a specific reason in isolating the four unique polysaccharides attributed to the Himalayan Goji Berry in juice form. Certain attributes of the berry have been intentionally removed such as proteins. The Himalayan Goji Juice produced by the U.S. Company states on its label that a 1 liter bottle contains reconstituted Himalayan goji juice from whole Lycium barbarum fruit, grape juice concentrate, pear juice concentrate, apple juice concentrate, pear pruee and natural flavor, with sodium benzoate and potassium sorbated added to maintain freshness. The other additive ingredients are used for flavor and preservation.
Does wolfberry contain nicotine? Eggplant and other solanum vegetables, which are related to wolfberry, do; see, for example, http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/drugs.html -- a study on breastfeeding and the use of alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and marijuana -- which says, "avoid vegetables containing considerable amounts of nicotine - eggplant, green and pureed tomatoes and cauliflower. Ten grams of eggplant provides the same amount of nicotine obtained in three hours in a room with minimal tobacco smoke (Laurence 1985)." (For the context of this sentence, realize that 10g is very small -- a typical eggplant portion is more like 100g.) This link is very interesting, and I recommend it. Eggplant apparently contains copious amounts of nicotine; tobacco is by far not the only plant to do so. Badagnani 21:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
"Squawberry" and "Desert Thorn" seem to be more vernacular names for Lycium species, in this case Lycium andersonii. Badagnani 08:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
We need to get a source for the purported poem about wolfberries by Liu Yuxi. None of the websites that cite the poem state in which book it may be found. Badagnani 06:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The text of Liu Yuxi's Tang Dynasty-era poem, in 7-syllable phrases--which apparently references wolfberries--is as follows. It seems that the actual name wolfberry isn't in the poem itself but in the introduction or title. The poem mentions "deep/blood red berries" ( 殷 红 子), however.
卷360_8 「楚州开元寺北院枸杞临井繁茂可观群贤赋诗因以继和」刘禹锡
from http://www.lingshidao.com/gushi/liuyuxi.htm (seems to be Liu's complete poems, in simplified characters). Badagnani 04:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Two interesting things in this poem: the character 灵 is the same as the first syllable in Lingzhou, an ancient city in Ningxia, and the line 根 老 新 成 瑞 犬 形 seems to imply that the plant's roots look like a dog. It's the hardest part of the poem to figure out. Badagnani 05:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Lycium halimifolium Miller should be discussed in the article--what is it? Some websites say it's essentially the same as L. barbarum. Also, what are the specific differences between L. chinense and L. barbarum? I'm not sure the article is clear about that either. Badagnani 19:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Lycium root bark (dìgǔpí; 地骨皮) should be given serious treatment, as the article is not just about berries. (Wouldn't it be funny if this part of the plant were to have been the one that caught on in the West?) Badagnani 19:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Should these species be added? One particularly interesting one is the "black-fruited wolfberry," which is said to grow in Tibet and other dry, cold places with saline soils. Badagnani 22:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
==Another Chinese website== This chinese website has information about the specific times of the year of the harvest, and also explains why it's called "wolfberry" (because the root, when dug up, is in the shape of a dog). Is that verifiable? Badagnani 05:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Need translation of this text about the "Immortals Village" supposedly recognized by an ancient king, in Penglai County, where every household has a wolfberry plant: 相 传 蓬 莱 县 南 丘 村 Badagnani 05:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
蓬莱县 = Penglai County. Is this in Shandong? Badagnani 06:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Maybe Penglai City -- home to the Eight Immortals? Badagnani 06:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Historical information here, to evaluate for inclusion. Badagnani 08:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The thesis of this Chinese article is that the evidence shows that wolfberries were described in Shang times, and even well before, used primarily to produce fermented alcoholic beverages (i.e. wines). Needs to be evaluated (keeping in mind that it could be considered speculative propaganda from a wolfberry producing region). Badagnani 08:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The use of the character 杞 in the Shi Jing may refer to the wolfberry, or maybe to something else: the willow tree, or the "medlar" fruit (possibly Crataegus, the Chinese Hawthorn). 杞 appears in poems 76, 162, 169, 172, 174, 204, and 205. The modern name 枸杞 is never used in the Shi Jing, so it isn't clear exactly what plant is being referred to in each case. Badagnani 21:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Check out the references by cutting and pasting 杞 into a CONTROL-F search through this website, which contains the full text of the Shi Jing. Badagnani 21:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
There are some interesting articles relating to Goji at this site: http://www.freelifegojinews.com/ SERSeanCrane 05:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
From above, News Site -- this is information that should be given a separate section in the Article.
People using Google to search for "wolfberry" or "goji" will find Wikipedia near the top of retrieved searches, and will come to the Article for facts.
I suggest we build an explanation of fraud that is in the goji juice and dried berry industries (e.g., Authentic Tibetan Goji Berries), together, arguably, 90%+ of all wolfberry products sold today in the world outside of China.
Here's a possible title and list of topics -- let's flesh this out here first to get it right -- input invited by anyone
Title: Fraud Exposed in Marketing of Himalayan Goji Juice and Tibetan Goji Berries
Topics pertaining to both:
-- Paul144 18:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
This section diverges from the topic and uses unencyclopedic language. I have trimmed it down and added a citation to support the assertions. Lumos3 10:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)