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change the 107 goal record because it is not true he scored 76 goals in one season... 79.126.148.121 ( talk) 15:51, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
I came here to post about the same, it's incorrect to state that Chitalu scored an unofficial record of 107 goals, because for unofficial records therea are dozens out there, one example, Pelé scored 110 according to english Wikipedia itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9
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I think "El récord no es de Leo Messi, es de Chitalu: 107 goles en total" by Tomás Roncero shouldn't be considered as a reference because the journalist clearly states in the video above his own article that his source is Wikipedia. Concerning the 107 goals, it may be relevant to add that according to this Zambian article http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/?p=2299 several or at least some of them where scored in friendly games and therefore cannot be official. Letargik ( talk) 19:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
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The record of Chitalu is false. It should be accepted by the FIFA, but it isn't. So, until the FIFA doesn't accept the record, it is for Leo Messi. Also the Guiness Records say that Messi has it.
GGrosman ( talk) 15:17, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Lsw10 ( talk) 23:51, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Messi's 'record' isn't accepted by FIFA either, becuase it isn't an official record. Chitalu's record is legitimate, because he scored 106 goals in Football Association of Zambia (Zambian Premier League, Challenge Cup, Chibuku Cup, Castle Cup, Charity Shield, and CAF competitions (African Club Champions Cup, international games). Therefore the record is legitimate (as legitimate as Messi's so-called record). The Zambia FA has accepted this record as legitimate: "Presenting the evidence and record of Chitalu’s goals to FAZ Vice President Boniface Mwamelo at a press conference at the Golden Peacock Hotel in Lusaka Wednesday morning, Muchimba said: “This work has been undertaken over a long time. We have looked at the 1972 league games, local cup games, African inter club championships and Zambia national team games. We are not just looking at mere speculation. These matches were played and recorded and Ucar scored.”" - http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/?p=2546
Marutimon ( talk) 18:58, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
This edit ( [1]) came out of nowhere with a lot of unverifiable sources. Does this person have access to an all-time collection of The Zambian Times with articles about Chitalu highlighted or is there a digitalized news archive of The Zambian Times? If it's the first case, hopefully he can scan them. If it's the second case, hopefully he can provide us of a link. Let's wait for a proper explanation. Dribblingod ( talk) 08:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Dribblingod ( talk) 09:29, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Wrong:
Right:
Wrong:
-- Maruitmon ( talk) 23:32, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Right:
-- Dribblingod ( talk) 22:40, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Wrong:
-- Marutimon ( talk) 23:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20727929 Fifa does not keep domestic records, so "it's not an official Fifa record", spokesman Alex Stone told BBC Sport. The world governing body said that, given it only maintains statistics for the international competitions it runs, it is not possibly to ratify records from club football around the world. We don't have a database which details every football game played in every country from around the world since day one of their formation," Stone said.
RESPECT TO DRIBBLING GOD! Marutimon ( talk) 16:45, 15 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.31.181.23 ( talk)
May I come in?
I have followed the preceding exchange with interest and it’s a pity I didn’t happen on it earlier otherwise I would have made a contribution. The only question that I came across was from Dribblingod on my talk page questioning my sources of info under ‘Dubious Sources.’ It was indeed an editing war but I am pleased that there is an explanation for the 107 goals in the article. Some of the comments are however offensive, in particular this unsigned post:
There was also this post
Well, to answer some of the questions
Just to clarify:
That said, scans of pages highlighting Chitalu’s exploits are available, with the picture Chitalu holding the ball with ‘107 goals’ on it as a start. and if an email address can be provided to me, I will send the scans SOLELY for the purpose of backing up what has been put in the article. I am pretty sure I have scans of most, if not all of those matches.
Of course I will need your assurance that they will be used only for the intended purpose. At least it will prove that someone went to the library and looked at the old newspapers, that libraries exist, and maybe some people will stop calling us monkeys... and I thought this only happened on European soccer pitches. Regards.
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Edit war ongoing. Moderation needed.
Marutimon ( talk) 23:30, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Is there any references about which number he used to use in the national team?
There's none except for the picture showing him scoring against USSR. He wore both number 10 for club and country — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.223.119.129 ( talk) 17:43, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
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Re: RECORDS In the records segment at the end of the article I would prefer outside opinion. In my opinion the whole reference to Pons article should be deleted as it is a poorly substantiated and opinionated claim, which extrapolated information not found on the Zambian FA as fact. For example it can easily be proven that his claim that the Charity Shield is not an official FAZ competition is false.
Marutimon ( talk) 19:24, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
{{
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KuyaBriBri
Talk
20:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)Sorry. Didn't notice it's no longer protected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.173.136 ( talk) 23:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia can not be a propaganda page of Chitalu. In this table, published in "as", "marca", and "zambianfootball.co.zm" THERE ARE 11 GOALS IN FRIENDLY MATCHES: http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Ucar-record.jpg
You can read in http://www.fazfootball.com/content/super-league-history/:
"Warriors however are not the most successful despite laying claim to legendary late great striker Godfrey "Ucar" Chitalu scoring an unofficial record of 107 goals in the 1972 season.
Warriors are second best with 13 cup and five league crowns on the Zambian football honours list.
The top honour goes to Mufulira Wanderers, who have produced some of Zambia’s biggest stars from the late Samuel "Zoom" Ndholvu who captained and coached the club as well as the national team.
Three of his protégés Kalusha Bwalya, Charles Musonda and the late goalkeeper David "Effort" Chabala also made their names at Wanderers.
Wanderers won 18 cup titles and nine league championships."
cups of warriors, 5 castle cups + 8 challenge cups: 13
cups of wanderers, 9 castle cups + 9 challenge cups: 18
In the honors of FAZ website are not "chibuku" and "charity shield", why?
In the honors of Real Madrid, Milan, Barcelona, etc, are all officials cups. No one forgets a official cup.
Can anyone imagine that in the honors of Real Madrid were not the European Supercup?
Also in statistics IFFHS: "Only one national cup per season can be considered for each country". Yo can see: http://www.iffhs.de/?3ccac3be8e00390b02fc4f02205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedb30b
There is no evidence of Chitalu goals. No pictures. Only one table and a photo. The author of this page questions the research data Pons. The author of this page should apologize.
You rectify .. right now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petersua74 ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
1. Brief research into the matter shows that the Charity Shield is an official season opening trophy much like the British FA Community Shield. 2. Redo your math. There are 7 to 10 goals in friendlies (depending on how you count the FAZ organised Midlands XI vs Copperbelt XI). Not 11. 3. Your main issue is with the Chibuku Cup / Heinrich Cup, which is now defunct and therefore not as highly noted as the ongoing cups. Also if you check out websites or wikipedias of clubs you will easily note that they boast as to the amount of Chibuku Cup they won. Such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mufulira_Wanderers_F.C. or 4. 'Only one national cup per season can be considered for each country' - tell that to Mueller and his 85 goals in 1972. Or Pele with his official goals. Fact is that leagues were smaller back in the 1970s and in order to counteract this FAs organised more trophies. Note that Chitalu scored his 108 goals in ca 45 games (compared to Messi's 60+). Even so IFFHS is hardly decisive in 'world records' and their criteria are arbitrary. Marutimon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.209.176 ( talk) 00:29, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
The problem is that the table of 107 goals has a big mistake.
http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Ucar-record.jpg
In the game "Warriors - Union Española", in the column "scorers" is Chitalu. But his goal is not in the right column. If this goal was in the right column, Chitalu has ¡¡¡108 goalssss!!!!.
This table have a big mistake and it has published in MARCA, AS and www.zambianfootball.co.zm.
In an internet forum in Argentina, people say this error. People laugh this error. I have found the error in that forum and I have kept a copy of the table. In the future I will send it to the sports media so they can see the errors in the record Chitalu.
If you does not rectify this page I will contact with wikipedia and I explain everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petersua74 ( talk • contribs) 14:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
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change the 107 goal record because it is not true he scored 76 goals in one season... 79.126.148.121 ( talk) 15:51, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
I came here to post about the same, it's incorrect to state that Chitalu scored an unofficial record of 107 goals, because for unofficial records therea are dozens out there, one example, Pelé scored 110 according to english Wikipedia itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I think "El récord no es de Leo Messi, es de Chitalu: 107 goles en total" by Tomás Roncero shouldn't be considered as a reference because the journalist clearly states in the video above his own article that his source is Wikipedia. Concerning the 107 goals, it may be relevant to add that according to this Zambian article http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/?p=2299 several or at least some of them where scored in friendly games and therefore cannot be official. Letargik ( talk) 19:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The record of Chitalu is false. It should be accepted by the FIFA, but it isn't. So, until the FIFA doesn't accept the record, it is for Leo Messi. Also the Guiness Records say that Messi has it.
GGrosman ( talk) 15:17, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Lsw10 ( talk) 23:51, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Messi's 'record' isn't accepted by FIFA either, becuase it isn't an official record. Chitalu's record is legitimate, because he scored 106 goals in Football Association of Zambia (Zambian Premier League, Challenge Cup, Chibuku Cup, Castle Cup, Charity Shield, and CAF competitions (African Club Champions Cup, international games). Therefore the record is legitimate (as legitimate as Messi's so-called record). The Zambia FA has accepted this record as legitimate: "Presenting the evidence and record of Chitalu’s goals to FAZ Vice President Boniface Mwamelo at a press conference at the Golden Peacock Hotel in Lusaka Wednesday morning, Muchimba said: “This work has been undertaken over a long time. We have looked at the 1972 league games, local cup games, African inter club championships and Zambia national team games. We are not just looking at mere speculation. These matches were played and recorded and Ucar scored.”" - http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/?p=2546
Marutimon ( talk) 18:58, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
This edit ( [1]) came out of nowhere with a lot of unverifiable sources. Does this person have access to an all-time collection of The Zambian Times with articles about Chitalu highlighted or is there a digitalized news archive of The Zambian Times? If it's the first case, hopefully he can scan them. If it's the second case, hopefully he can provide us of a link. Let's wait for a proper explanation. Dribblingod ( talk) 08:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Dribblingod ( talk) 09:29, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Wrong:
Right:
Wrong:
-- Maruitmon ( talk) 23:32, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Right:
-- Dribblingod ( talk) 22:40, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Wrong:
-- Marutimon ( talk) 23:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20727929 Fifa does not keep domestic records, so "it's not an official Fifa record", spokesman Alex Stone told BBC Sport. The world governing body said that, given it only maintains statistics for the international competitions it runs, it is not possibly to ratify records from club football around the world. We don't have a database which details every football game played in every country from around the world since day one of their formation," Stone said.
RESPECT TO DRIBBLING GOD! Marutimon ( talk) 16:45, 15 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.31.181.23 ( talk)
May I come in?
I have followed the preceding exchange with interest and it’s a pity I didn’t happen on it earlier otherwise I would have made a contribution. The only question that I came across was from Dribblingod on my talk page questioning my sources of info under ‘Dubious Sources.’ It was indeed an editing war but I am pleased that there is an explanation for the 107 goals in the article. Some of the comments are however offensive, in particular this unsigned post:
There was also this post
Well, to answer some of the questions
Just to clarify:
That said, scans of pages highlighting Chitalu’s exploits are available, with the picture Chitalu holding the ball with ‘107 goals’ on it as a start. and if an email address can be provided to me, I will send the scans SOLELY for the purpose of backing up what has been put in the article. I am pretty sure I have scans of most, if not all of those matches.
Of course I will need your assurance that they will be used only for the intended purpose. At least it will prove that someone went to the library and looked at the old newspapers, that libraries exist, and maybe some people will stop calling us monkeys... and I thought this only happened on European soccer pitches. Regards.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Edit war ongoing. Moderation needed.
Marutimon ( talk) 23:30, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Is there any references about which number he used to use in the national team?
There's none except for the picture showing him scoring against USSR. He wore both number 10 for club and country — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.223.119.129 ( talk) 17:43, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Re: RECORDS In the records segment at the end of the article I would prefer outside opinion. In my opinion the whole reference to Pons article should be deleted as it is a poorly substantiated and opinionated claim, which extrapolated information not found on the Zambian FA as fact. For example it can easily be proven that his claim that the Charity Shield is not an official FAZ competition is false.
Marutimon ( talk) 19:24, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
is only for requesting an edit to a protected article that you cannot edit yourself; it is not for soliciting outside opinion. This page is not currently protected and was not under any protection at the time of the above edit request. To solicit outside opinion, I recommend visiting the talk page of one of the applicable WikiProjects, identified at the top of this talk page. WP Football would probably the best one. Thank you. —
KuyaBriBri
Talk
20:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)Sorry. Didn't notice it's no longer protected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.173.136 ( talk) 23:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia can not be a propaganda page of Chitalu. In this table, published in "as", "marca", and "zambianfootball.co.zm" THERE ARE 11 GOALS IN FRIENDLY MATCHES: http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Ucar-record.jpg
You can read in http://www.fazfootball.com/content/super-league-history/:
"Warriors however are not the most successful despite laying claim to legendary late great striker Godfrey "Ucar" Chitalu scoring an unofficial record of 107 goals in the 1972 season.
Warriors are second best with 13 cup and five league crowns on the Zambian football honours list.
The top honour goes to Mufulira Wanderers, who have produced some of Zambia’s biggest stars from the late Samuel "Zoom" Ndholvu who captained and coached the club as well as the national team.
Three of his protégés Kalusha Bwalya, Charles Musonda and the late goalkeeper David "Effort" Chabala also made their names at Wanderers.
Wanderers won 18 cup titles and nine league championships."
cups of warriors, 5 castle cups + 8 challenge cups: 13
cups of wanderers, 9 castle cups + 9 challenge cups: 18
In the honors of FAZ website are not "chibuku" and "charity shield", why?
In the honors of Real Madrid, Milan, Barcelona, etc, are all officials cups. No one forgets a official cup.
Can anyone imagine that in the honors of Real Madrid were not the European Supercup?
Also in statistics IFFHS: "Only one national cup per season can be considered for each country". Yo can see: http://www.iffhs.de/?3ccac3be8e00390b02fc4f02205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedb30b
There is no evidence of Chitalu goals. No pictures. Only one table and a photo. The author of this page questions the research data Pons. The author of this page should apologize.
You rectify .. right now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petersua74 ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
1. Brief research into the matter shows that the Charity Shield is an official season opening trophy much like the British FA Community Shield. 2. Redo your math. There are 7 to 10 goals in friendlies (depending on how you count the FAZ organised Midlands XI vs Copperbelt XI). Not 11. 3. Your main issue is with the Chibuku Cup / Heinrich Cup, which is now defunct and therefore not as highly noted as the ongoing cups. Also if you check out websites or wikipedias of clubs you will easily note that they boast as to the amount of Chibuku Cup they won. Such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mufulira_Wanderers_F.C. or 4. 'Only one national cup per season can be considered for each country' - tell that to Mueller and his 85 goals in 1972. Or Pele with his official goals. Fact is that leagues were smaller back in the 1970s and in order to counteract this FAs organised more trophies. Note that Chitalu scored his 108 goals in ca 45 games (compared to Messi's 60+). Even so IFFHS is hardly decisive in 'world records' and their criteria are arbitrary. Marutimon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.209.176 ( talk) 00:29, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
The problem is that the table of 107 goals has a big mistake.
http://www.zambianfootball.co.zm/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Ucar-record.jpg
In the game "Warriors - Union Española", in the column "scorers" is Chitalu. But his goal is not in the right column. If this goal was in the right column, Chitalu has ¡¡¡108 goalssss!!!!.
This table have a big mistake and it has published in MARCA, AS and www.zambianfootball.co.zm.
In an internet forum in Argentina, people say this error. People laugh this error. I have found the error in that forum and I have kept a copy of the table. In the future I will send it to the sports media so they can see the errors in the record Chitalu.
If you does not rectify this page I will contact with wikipedia and I explain everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petersua74 ( talk • contribs) 14:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
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