Suk School was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 04 July 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Glossary of Dune (franchise) terminology. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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I created this article primarily as a central resource for explanations of what I'll call the 'minor' Dune terminology used throughout Dune articles but often not explained (like 'inkvine' or 'nullentropy'). Information on such topics is important but in many cases does not warrant an individual article.
There are certainly some Dune terminology stubs (and stubs yet to be created) that I feel should be merged with this list; I would say that any stub of only a couple of sentences has a place here. If readers are simply redirected from where a main article would be, a full article could be created in the future should need arise, and links in other articles would remain accurate. (see Nullentropy, my own article which I have merged here)
For the sake of being comprehensive, I am including as many Dune terms as possible, with brief explanations and links to their main articles. My thinking is that, like me, once a reader is on this page he or she may be interested in looking into other terms. TAnthony 23:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I may be wrong but I thought that Maula Pistols fired pellets rather than darts. In Children of Dune when Jessica is attacked with one it leaves a round hole in her robe which a dart would not. They could also be modified to hold poisons but the primary use was simply as a projectile weapon. I wanted to check this against someone else's knowledge so I did not edit the main article. 195.137.108.52 07:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
The description is at best incomplete. An ornithopther has jet pods; my impression was that of a configurable wing aircraft. /roger.duprat.denmark.
This page is an important part of the Dune series of articles, as it defines many key terms that would otherwise exist as a host of stubs. I do see, however, the copyright issue. So, assuming this will solve the problem, I will go through the page and rewrite as many definitions as possible, and quote and reference the rest (and, or course, any of Herbert's phrasing at all). I will need a few days to accomplish this, of course! Please post here any related suggestions that would help in my efforts. Thanks. TAnthony 01:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Great. Much happier with that now. Pete Fenelon 15:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Though we know that Herbert was heavily influenced by Arabic language and culture, I have removed the following Arabic definitions added to the list:
I feel that providing these definitions is original research and implies that Herbert intended these meanings to apply to his terms. We all know he probably did, but that connection can't be made here without a source. TAnthony 14:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
As noted above, I added a sentence to this article noting the possible Arabic influence on Herbert's work, using the source provided by Wachholder.
I have also tagged similar "translation" sections in Kwisatz Haderach and Gom jabbar, and placed a link on the associated talk pages to direct discussion on the topic here. — TAnthony Talk 23:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Are these not descendents of the Tleilaxu ( Bene Tleilax)? The article on the Fishspeakers seems to contradict what I have read in the later F.Herbert novels. Don't the Honoured Matres merge with the Fishspeaker council who are an offshoot of the BT? -- maxrspct ping me 16:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I have PDF of the encyclopedia .. but it's quite vague apart from outlining it's roots in the decline of the Fremen. It is a miltary body apparently. But then the Encyclopedia is only half-canonical - was sanctioned by but not written by F.Herbert. Anyway Frank was enthusiatic about Dune mythology being developed by others. Perhaps specific references to the encyclopedia would be needed for the wiki additions based on that information. Cheers. -- maxrspct ping me 17:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Theres a lot of bumpf or padding about the decline of Fremen. But these parts are fairly interesting: -- maxrspct ping me 23:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
"A silver fish was once worn by members of a secret society called Aram-el, but was abandoned in order to conciliate a powerful rival organization that was jealous of the fish's use as an emblem. Aram-el's need to defend itself gave rise to a military faction which gradually absorbed other groups and grew to become the Fish Speakers. The first leader of this group had a series of dreams in which one such silver emblem grew large and lifelike and began to speak, warning of future trials and cautioning the leadership to develop military prowess for religious purposes, although these were at first obscure. It was the second generation leader to whom was revealed that the purpose of Aram-el was to defend a god-king.... Thereafter members being initiated into Aram-el took their vows by placing their hands upon a large silver fish, and the most religious of the group secretly reverenced the same object as a fetish. No wonder that this fish spoke to them in dreams, and the more devout could verify their sincerity by reports of those dreams. As time-passed, other rituals and more precise vows replaced these early forms, but the military women who protect and defend the God-king were thereafter known as Fish Speakers and became Brides of the God-King, in preparation of that day when such a visitation would occur..."
"...The decline of the military might of the Fremen army took a much longer time, was marked by no notorious single incident, and was hidden from view by official decision. Hence its story has only recently come to light, and has been pieced together by the patient researchers of the military section, of the Library Confraternity, to whose efforts we owe these startling revelations about the true reasons for the formation of the Fish Speakers...
"...Fremen tribal membership was extended to children born off-world who were acknowledged by Fremen soldiers. The first such recognition on the planet Zimaona occurred in 10214 (only the rolls for Zimaona have yet been located among the ridulian crystals). The number of acknowledgments and children born of legal marriages to Zimaonian natives increases steadily over the next twenty years, and it is among the transfer records from Zimaona that we see for the first time, beginning in 10233, folders with a beige tab, showing that the soldier in question refused return to Arrakis and was mustered out on the planet. The use of the beige tab was an innovation restricted to Zimaona and suppressed even there after just two years. It may be that the beige tabs were having a destructive effect on morale — 6,000 soldiers refused return in those two years — and the folders of those who ended their enlistments on Zimaona returned to the use of the green tab specified for general purposes elsewhere throughout the empire. The total number of Fremen who refused return to Arrakis, therefore, is buried in the mass of general transfer records, but their numbers are hinted at in the two-year innovation of Zimaona."
Dune Messiah is filled with references to the Qizarate religion, but there is no definition here (Dune terminology) or on the Dune (Religion) page. If you have a good understanding of this could you add it to the appropriate pages?
Hi, The words Ayat and Buran refer to eachother for explanation that neither really gives. Can someone please add to this? Robin.lemstra ( talk) 10:41, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Might it not be more efficient to include a note at the top of the page to the effect that "except where noted otherwise, information comes from the "Terminology of the Imperium" glossary included at the end of Dune."?
Just wondering. ;) -- SandChigger ( talk) 09:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I realize I'm probably wrong (often am), but I had always assumed that the "plasteel" of the earlier novels somehow evolved (linguistically, that is) into the "plaz" of the later books by way of the natural drift of language over time. Just a thought.-- 172.190.16.197 ( talk) 09:20, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be some confusion here between the spice essence and the Water of Life. Some of this may be unavoidable as the books themselves are not completely internally consistent, even within the six original FH-written novels. (IIRC - haven't read them through in about 20 years.) I'll try to clear it up and if I'm off I'm sure some Dunian will correct me... Ellsworth 00:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
The term "spice trance" is never attributed to Navigators in the original series (and it is only used in Children of Dune). Alia refers to it as a "navigation trance" in CoD:
Not without reason was the spice often called "the secret coinage." Without melange, the Spacing Guild's heighliners could not move. Melange precipitated the "navigation trance" by which a translight pathway could be "seen" before it was traveled. Without melange and its amplification of the human immunogenic system, life expectancy for the very rich degenerated by a factor of at least four. Even the vast middle class of the Imperium ate diluted melange in small sprinklings with at least one meal a day.
TAnthony 02:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
It's an easy error, so it deserves discussion here, even if it's already correct in the article:
I haven't tried to look it up, but if i were writing it, those memories would pass (in otherwise inaccessible form) from mother to daughter, but not from mother thru son to granddaughter. Perhaps a reference can be given on this talk page. The number of personalities (assuming n generations) is approximately 2n/2
as we have it written, and approximately n
if what is intended is "ancestors in the female line".
--
Jerzy•
t
01:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Please tell this user to do not remove lemmas. Thanks. 62.11.176.123 ( talk) 04:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I suspect the baliset used in Dune: Part Two (2024) is also an altered chapman stick, specifically the NS model. I've shown it to other players who think the same, but haven't been able to find anything confirming it online.
This is very much not that important, but would be significant in media representation of the stick, so I'm leaving this here in case any confirmation ever pops up. Also posting to the Chapman Stick talk page Equirax ( talk) 03:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Suk School was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 04 July 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Glossary of Dune (franchise) terminology. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I created this article primarily as a central resource for explanations of what I'll call the 'minor' Dune terminology used throughout Dune articles but often not explained (like 'inkvine' or 'nullentropy'). Information on such topics is important but in many cases does not warrant an individual article.
There are certainly some Dune terminology stubs (and stubs yet to be created) that I feel should be merged with this list; I would say that any stub of only a couple of sentences has a place here. If readers are simply redirected from where a main article would be, a full article could be created in the future should need arise, and links in other articles would remain accurate. (see Nullentropy, my own article which I have merged here)
For the sake of being comprehensive, I am including as many Dune terms as possible, with brief explanations and links to their main articles. My thinking is that, like me, once a reader is on this page he or she may be interested in looking into other terms. TAnthony 23:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I may be wrong but I thought that Maula Pistols fired pellets rather than darts. In Children of Dune when Jessica is attacked with one it leaves a round hole in her robe which a dart would not. They could also be modified to hold poisons but the primary use was simply as a projectile weapon. I wanted to check this against someone else's knowledge so I did not edit the main article. 195.137.108.52 07:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
The description is at best incomplete. An ornithopther has jet pods; my impression was that of a configurable wing aircraft. /roger.duprat.denmark.
This page is an important part of the Dune series of articles, as it defines many key terms that would otherwise exist as a host of stubs. I do see, however, the copyright issue. So, assuming this will solve the problem, I will go through the page and rewrite as many definitions as possible, and quote and reference the rest (and, or course, any of Herbert's phrasing at all). I will need a few days to accomplish this, of course! Please post here any related suggestions that would help in my efforts. Thanks. TAnthony 01:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Great. Much happier with that now. Pete Fenelon 15:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Though we know that Herbert was heavily influenced by Arabic language and culture, I have removed the following Arabic definitions added to the list:
I feel that providing these definitions is original research and implies that Herbert intended these meanings to apply to his terms. We all know he probably did, but that connection can't be made here without a source. TAnthony 14:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
As noted above, I added a sentence to this article noting the possible Arabic influence on Herbert's work, using the source provided by Wachholder.
I have also tagged similar "translation" sections in Kwisatz Haderach and Gom jabbar, and placed a link on the associated talk pages to direct discussion on the topic here. — TAnthony Talk 23:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Are these not descendents of the Tleilaxu ( Bene Tleilax)? The article on the Fishspeakers seems to contradict what I have read in the later F.Herbert novels. Don't the Honoured Matres merge with the Fishspeaker council who are an offshoot of the BT? -- maxrspct ping me 16:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I have PDF of the encyclopedia .. but it's quite vague apart from outlining it's roots in the decline of the Fremen. It is a miltary body apparently. But then the Encyclopedia is only half-canonical - was sanctioned by but not written by F.Herbert. Anyway Frank was enthusiatic about Dune mythology being developed by others. Perhaps specific references to the encyclopedia would be needed for the wiki additions based on that information. Cheers. -- maxrspct ping me 17:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Theres a lot of bumpf or padding about the decline of Fremen. But these parts are fairly interesting: -- maxrspct ping me 23:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
"A silver fish was once worn by members of a secret society called Aram-el, but was abandoned in order to conciliate a powerful rival organization that was jealous of the fish's use as an emblem. Aram-el's need to defend itself gave rise to a military faction which gradually absorbed other groups and grew to become the Fish Speakers. The first leader of this group had a series of dreams in which one such silver emblem grew large and lifelike and began to speak, warning of future trials and cautioning the leadership to develop military prowess for religious purposes, although these were at first obscure. It was the second generation leader to whom was revealed that the purpose of Aram-el was to defend a god-king.... Thereafter members being initiated into Aram-el took their vows by placing their hands upon a large silver fish, and the most religious of the group secretly reverenced the same object as a fetish. No wonder that this fish spoke to them in dreams, and the more devout could verify their sincerity by reports of those dreams. As time-passed, other rituals and more precise vows replaced these early forms, but the military women who protect and defend the God-king were thereafter known as Fish Speakers and became Brides of the God-King, in preparation of that day when such a visitation would occur..."
"...The decline of the military might of the Fremen army took a much longer time, was marked by no notorious single incident, and was hidden from view by official decision. Hence its story has only recently come to light, and has been pieced together by the patient researchers of the military section, of the Library Confraternity, to whose efforts we owe these startling revelations about the true reasons for the formation of the Fish Speakers...
"...Fremen tribal membership was extended to children born off-world who were acknowledged by Fremen soldiers. The first such recognition on the planet Zimaona occurred in 10214 (only the rolls for Zimaona have yet been located among the ridulian crystals). The number of acknowledgments and children born of legal marriages to Zimaonian natives increases steadily over the next twenty years, and it is among the transfer records from Zimaona that we see for the first time, beginning in 10233, folders with a beige tab, showing that the soldier in question refused return to Arrakis and was mustered out on the planet. The use of the beige tab was an innovation restricted to Zimaona and suppressed even there after just two years. It may be that the beige tabs were having a destructive effect on morale — 6,000 soldiers refused return in those two years — and the folders of those who ended their enlistments on Zimaona returned to the use of the green tab specified for general purposes elsewhere throughout the empire. The total number of Fremen who refused return to Arrakis, therefore, is buried in the mass of general transfer records, but their numbers are hinted at in the two-year innovation of Zimaona."
Dune Messiah is filled with references to the Qizarate religion, but there is no definition here (Dune terminology) or on the Dune (Religion) page. If you have a good understanding of this could you add it to the appropriate pages?
Hi, The words Ayat and Buran refer to eachother for explanation that neither really gives. Can someone please add to this? Robin.lemstra ( talk) 10:41, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Might it not be more efficient to include a note at the top of the page to the effect that "except where noted otherwise, information comes from the "Terminology of the Imperium" glossary included at the end of Dune."?
Just wondering. ;) -- SandChigger ( talk) 09:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I realize I'm probably wrong (often am), but I had always assumed that the "plasteel" of the earlier novels somehow evolved (linguistically, that is) into the "plaz" of the later books by way of the natural drift of language over time. Just a thought.-- 172.190.16.197 ( talk) 09:20, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be some confusion here between the spice essence and the Water of Life. Some of this may be unavoidable as the books themselves are not completely internally consistent, even within the six original FH-written novels. (IIRC - haven't read them through in about 20 years.) I'll try to clear it up and if I'm off I'm sure some Dunian will correct me... Ellsworth 00:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
The term "spice trance" is never attributed to Navigators in the original series (and it is only used in Children of Dune). Alia refers to it as a "navigation trance" in CoD:
Not without reason was the spice often called "the secret coinage." Without melange, the Spacing Guild's heighliners could not move. Melange precipitated the "navigation trance" by which a translight pathway could be "seen" before it was traveled. Without melange and its amplification of the human immunogenic system, life expectancy for the very rich degenerated by a factor of at least four. Even the vast middle class of the Imperium ate diluted melange in small sprinklings with at least one meal a day.
TAnthony 02:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
It's an easy error, so it deserves discussion here, even if it's already correct in the article:
I haven't tried to look it up, but if i were writing it, those memories would pass (in otherwise inaccessible form) from mother to daughter, but not from mother thru son to granddaughter. Perhaps a reference can be given on this talk page. The number of personalities (assuming n generations) is approximately 2n/2
as we have it written, and approximately n
if what is intended is "ancestors in the female line".
--
Jerzy•
t
01:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Please tell this user to do not remove lemmas. Thanks. 62.11.176.123 ( talk) 04:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I suspect the baliset used in Dune: Part Two (2024) is also an altered chapman stick, specifically the NS model. I've shown it to other players who think the same, but haven't been able to find anything confirming it online.
This is very much not that important, but would be significant in media representation of the stick, so I'm leaving this here in case any confirmation ever pops up. Also posting to the Chapman Stick talk page Equirax ( talk) 03:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)