This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Defeated by Murad II in 1421 he was forced to vasality and from time to time one or more of his sons were sent as a hostages to Ottoman court.
In article about Skanderbeg is written:
“Gjon Kastrioti had accepted his submission to be the Sultan's vassal in 1409”
When Ivan became Ottoman timariot, in 1409 or 1421?-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 22:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
There isn't any credible original source claiming he was Albanian and nobody called him "Gjon" at his time. Barleti said he was from Macedonia. Oliver Schmitt names him "Iban" and supports that he was a Byzantine-Serb. This view must be added in the article and title must change to his english name. -- Exodic2 ( talk) 11:20, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow Albania didt exist then?!! I`m sorry but the ignorant arrogance some of other balkan peoples have against Albanians is both sad and disturbing. http://www.historyarts.ro/carti/vlad_tepes/balkan_1450-1500.jpg
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/pegasus.gif
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/mughal/cluvermaps/ancientgreece1711nw.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Europa_1400.jpg
http://www.nada.kth.se/~ovidiu/maps/images/honter-map6.jpg
http://www.nada.kth.se/~ovidiu/maps/images/honter-map7.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_1360.jpg
http://62.20.57.210/kra/bilder/0401/01/C/l%2017.jpg
http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/lesage/histoire_06/images/atlas_06_3_1.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2r2opjr.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/%C3%96stromerska_och_osmanska_rikena_slutet_av_1300talet.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.156.131 ( talk) 01:02, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Bertrandon de la Broquière's from Burgundy visited in 1433 Adrianople and was informed that turks were preoccupied in putting down an uprising by prince of ALBANIA John Castriot, this is one of thousands of sources that he was Albanian, how much proff do you people want untill you are happy,
http://img59.imageshack.us/f/castriot.jpg/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.156.131 ( talk) 00:31, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Barleti use many times ancient names for the regions, for examble Serbia is never mentioned in his work only the ancient name of region "Moesia", Turks are never mentions in their name but only as Troyans, Thracians and barbarians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.156.131 ( talk) 18:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
In Venice Republic correspondence with him and in Venice references he is called Juanum Castrioti (1407), Johannes Castriot (1413, 1417, 1433), Yanus (1424) or Juano Castrioth (1439), Juani (1445). In Ottoman sources Juvan and its dominion Juvan-ili (Juvan's land). Contemporary authors: Raphael Volaterranus, calls him Johannes Dibras, Barleti, calls him Iohannes, Gjon Muzaka calls him Giovanni. Demetrio Franco calls him also Giovanni. Aigest ( talk) 09:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Here are Google Books search results for "Ivan Kastriot". It is obvious that many scholars use Ivan Kastriot and that use of that name is not limited to the
Also, historian that is probably most involved in this topic us Ivan as name of this person. Also you can see that one of the biggest authorities in this topic use Ivan in his works: Lechner, Gerhard. "Buch über Nationalhelden Skanderbeg erregt die Albaner". Wiener Zeitung. Retrieved 1 April 2011.. Therefore I propose to add this information in the text of the article. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 08:37, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
(unindent)Read above and wiki policy for the names in English. Aigest ( talk) 07:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Arbanaški pirg is tower of Hilandar monastery, not graveyard. Many sources can confirm that: et la Tour albanaise (Arbanaški pirg), Ova kula je sačuvana sve do današnjih dana u Hilandaru i nosi naziv Arbanaški pirg... and the name pirg is derived from pirgue Greek word Πύργος which means tower.
George Kastriot is name of Skanderbeg on English language.
Majuru, please do not revert without explanation.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 13:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Did Gjon Kastrioti had some "official" royal title? Prince, King, duke, lord? Of what? Can someone help me understand? :) -- WhiteWriter speaks 20:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Here is work written by Konstantin Josef Jireček who mention Ivan's letter to merchants from Dubrovnik on February 25, 1420. The source says that it is "serbian letter". Page 334. It describes that a reason for him to write to merchants from Dubrovnik was Branković's order to those merchants to avoid Montenegro and travel from Dubrovnik to Kosovo trough area controlled by Ivan Kastriot. I propose to include this details in the article. Anybody against it?-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 15:09, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
I think that our discussion went to unproductive direction and lost connection with my proposal. Let us focus on my proposal. If you look at the beginning of this section you will notice that I proposed to add the information that on February 25, 1420 Ivan Kastriot sent a letter to merchants of Dubrovnik who traveled trough his land when trading with Serbia. Merchants from Dubrovnik used that route instead of their previous route trough land controlled by Gojčin Crnojević because Despot requested merchants to avoid land of Crnojević who was, together with other small feudal lords and highlander tribes, unsatisfied with strict regulations in Serbia enforced by despot.
I did not propose to use that letter as source. Instead, I proposed to use Jiricek's work as source. Based on the Jiričeks work I will add to the text of the article below information about Kastriot, supported with Jiricek's work:
On February 25, 1420 Gjon Kastriot wrote a letter on Serbian language to merchants from Dubrovnik. Based on the order of despot of Serbia, when they traveled from Dubrovnik to Prizren they had to use the route trough Shkodër in Albania Veneta and the Kastriot's land instead of the previous route trough the land under control of the small feudal lords and highlander tribes of Montenegro. [gjon 1]
Забрани деспот дубровчанима да иду тим путем, и нагна их да путују кроз млетачку скадарску област и кроз земљу Ивана Кастриота... Види српско писмо Ивана Кастриота од 25. фебруара 1420 за дубровачке трговце кроз његову земљу за Призрен (Despot forbid to Dubrovnik merchants to use that way, and ordered them to travel trough Venetian area in Scutari and trough land of Ivan Kastriot.... See serbian letter to merchants from Dubrovnik traveling trough his land to Prizren, written by Ivan Kastriot on February 25, 1420.
{{
cite book}}
: More than one of |author=
and |last=
specified (
help); More than one of |pages=
and |page=
specified (
help)
I agree with you that there is no different interpretation because there are two letters Ivan Kastriot wrote. Feel free to add information about another letter to the article, based on the referenced source.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 12:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I think that you did not provide arguments (grounded in wikipedia policies or common sense) for your intention to remove information (which is supported with referenced secondary source written by authoritative scholar) about existence of the letter written by Gjon/Ivan to merchants from Dubrovnik. If you don't agree with me and still insist on removal of that information, please follow Wikipedia:Dispute resolution recommendations.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 12:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
1420, 25. Februar. Geleitsbrief des Herrn Ivan (Kastriota) und seiner Sühne filr die Kaufleute von Ragusa auf dem Wege durch sein Land von Sufadaja (bei Alessio) nach Prizren, nebst Bestimmungen Uber die Zölle.
{{
citation}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=
, |editorn-last=
, |coauthors=
, |doi-inactive-date=
, |editorn-link=
, |nopp=
, |separator=
, |laysummary=
, |editorn=
, |editorn-first=
, |month=
, |chapterurl=
, |author-separator=
, and |lastauthoramp=
(
help); Unknown parameter |firstn=
ignored (
help)). This source present interpretation of Ivan's letter. Among other things, it says that with that letter Ivan informed merchants from Dubrovnik that they were granted
safe conduct when passing the land under his control, on their way to Prizren.--
Antidiskriminator (
talk)
22:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)That is not an interpretation, instead it is merely telling part of the text. However you should change your method of doing things. You insist on using primary sources which are easily misinterpreted, instead of using secondary sources which deal in detail with the topic. This case in hand is another example of your wrong method and I'll explain you why. The same document is published, studied and commented on Gjergj Kastrioti Skënderbeu: jeta dhe vepra, 1405–1468, Frashëri, Kristo (2002) (in Albanian), Botimet Toena, ISBN 9992716274. In four pages there is a photocopy of the document, what does it talk about and the interpretation (date, sons, borders, political situation etc) and that is from a book which deals with Skanderbeg and its family and published in 2002!! But hey, instead of using it, you insist on using primary sources of 1899, of which Kastrioti family was not even the topic!?!?
Just for showing you your wrong way of doing things which is against wiki rules I inform you that while you claim that "On February 25, 1420 Gjon Kastriot wrote a letter on Serbian language to merchants from Dubrovnik" actually " the document dated February 25, 1420 is a notary act held in notary office in Dubrovnik". I suppose you know the difference between them. This is the risk of following your method. A misinterpreted, unhistorical and nonacademic article. I strongly suggest you to actually read the right sources before editing here. You want to edit about Skanderbeg family? Ok no problem, but you have to read Noli, Frasheri, Bicoku, Shmitt, Hodgkinson, Plasari (latest book on Skanderbeg "Skënderbeu: një histori politike."(Skanderbeg: a political history) Author Plasari, Aurel. Publisher Gjergj Fishta ISBN: 9789995685508 Tiranë 2010). These are his main biographers, familiarize with them, then come here in wikipedia and edit. Aigest ( talk) 08:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
P.S. I will deal with that document interpretation when I'll find sometime. If you really want to use it than read Frasheri 2002. As I told you he dedicates 4 pages to that document. Aigest ( talk) 08:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
Gjon Kastrioti →
John Castriot – per
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility) "It is generally advisable to use the most common form of the name used in reliable sources in English...".
Gjon :
|
John:
|
John Castriot is most common form of his name. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 15:20, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
"Given the statistics, Antid's request essentially supports a return to the common use of the 19th century." - Incorrect. Below is statistics for after 19th century sources:
Statistics for after 19th century sources
|
---|
Gjon :
John:
|
In after 19th century sources form "John Castriot(a, i)" is also most commonly used (more than all other 9 forms together). In after 19th century sources John:Gjon=137:50 and Castriot(i,a):Kastriot(i,a)=107:43. In all sources John:Gjon=1,093:96 and Castriot(i,a):Kastriot(i,a)=1,024:165.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 19:42, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Statistics for 21st century sources only
|
---|
|
(unindent) Please don't misrepresent the results Antidiskriminator and as Aigest said focus on modern results. Since the start your proposal has been about a return to the common use of the 19th century, however, wikipedia article titles are based on the common use of modern scholarship otherwise we'd use Anglicized/Latinized titles for most bios of personalities that lived before that era.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:31, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
U Valoni, na dvoru despota Jovana Komnena-Asena (1350. - 1363.), šurjaka cara Dušana i brata bugarskog cara Jovana Aleksandra, stajala je kolijevka moći Kastriota. U jednoj srpskoj povelji "avlonskog i kaninskog gospodina" Aleksandra, valjada sina despota Jovana, spominje se (1366) "ćefalija Kaninski Kastriot". Kako mu to pokazuje ime, taj ćefalija bio je podrijetlom Grk. Od Balše II dobio je on u leno dva sela u srednjoj Albaniji na Matu. Njegov potomak Ivan, "gospodin Ivan" u srpskim poveljama, "Ivan Castrioth" u mletačkim spomenicima...
{{
citation}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=
, |editorn-last=
, |doi-inactive-date=
, |editorn-link=
, |nopp=
, |separator=
, |laysummary=
, |editorn=
, |editorn-first=
, |month=
, |chapterurl=
, |author-separator=
, and |lastauthoramp=
(
help); More than one of |author=
and |last=
specified (
help); Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |firstn=
ignored (
help)It would be appreciated if someone who actually knows what is being referenced in the infobox under 'Issue' were to tidy it up. 'Issue' means children, not issues he dealt with. I'll try to get around to tidying it up myself at some point, but have such a backlog of copyediting, etc. that it won't happen for at least a couple of years. Cheers for any assistance! -- Iryna Harpy ( talk) 00:05, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Defeated by Murad II in 1421 he was forced to vasality and from time to time one or more of his sons were sent as a hostages to Ottoman court.
In article about Skanderbeg is written:
“Gjon Kastrioti had accepted his submission to be the Sultan's vassal in 1409”
When Ivan became Ottoman timariot, in 1409 or 1421?-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 22:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
There isn't any credible original source claiming he was Albanian and nobody called him "Gjon" at his time. Barleti said he was from Macedonia. Oliver Schmitt names him "Iban" and supports that he was a Byzantine-Serb. This view must be added in the article and title must change to his english name. -- Exodic2 ( talk) 11:20, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow Albania didt exist then?!! I`m sorry but the ignorant arrogance some of other balkan peoples have against Albanians is both sad and disturbing. http://www.historyarts.ro/carti/vlad_tepes/balkan_1450-1500.jpg
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/pegasus.gif
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/mughal/cluvermaps/ancientgreece1711nw.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Europa_1400.jpg
http://www.nada.kth.se/~ovidiu/maps/images/honter-map6.jpg
http://www.nada.kth.se/~ovidiu/maps/images/honter-map7.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_1360.jpg
http://62.20.57.210/kra/bilder/0401/01/C/l%2017.jpg
http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/lesage/histoire_06/images/atlas_06_3_1.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2r2opjr.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/%C3%96stromerska_och_osmanska_rikena_slutet_av_1300talet.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.156.131 ( talk) 01:02, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Bertrandon de la Broquière's from Burgundy visited in 1433 Adrianople and was informed that turks were preoccupied in putting down an uprising by prince of ALBANIA John Castriot, this is one of thousands of sources that he was Albanian, how much proff do you people want untill you are happy,
http://img59.imageshack.us/f/castriot.jpg/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.156.131 ( talk) 00:31, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Barleti use many times ancient names for the regions, for examble Serbia is never mentioned in his work only the ancient name of region "Moesia", Turks are never mentions in their name but only as Troyans, Thracians and barbarians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.156.131 ( talk) 18:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
In Venice Republic correspondence with him and in Venice references he is called Juanum Castrioti (1407), Johannes Castriot (1413, 1417, 1433), Yanus (1424) or Juano Castrioth (1439), Juani (1445). In Ottoman sources Juvan and its dominion Juvan-ili (Juvan's land). Contemporary authors: Raphael Volaterranus, calls him Johannes Dibras, Barleti, calls him Iohannes, Gjon Muzaka calls him Giovanni. Demetrio Franco calls him also Giovanni. Aigest ( talk) 09:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Here are Google Books search results for "Ivan Kastriot". It is obvious that many scholars use Ivan Kastriot and that use of that name is not limited to the
Also, historian that is probably most involved in this topic us Ivan as name of this person. Also you can see that one of the biggest authorities in this topic use Ivan in his works: Lechner, Gerhard. "Buch über Nationalhelden Skanderbeg erregt die Albaner". Wiener Zeitung. Retrieved 1 April 2011.. Therefore I propose to add this information in the text of the article. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 08:37, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
(unindent)Read above and wiki policy for the names in English. Aigest ( talk) 07:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Arbanaški pirg is tower of Hilandar monastery, not graveyard. Many sources can confirm that: et la Tour albanaise (Arbanaški pirg), Ova kula je sačuvana sve do današnjih dana u Hilandaru i nosi naziv Arbanaški pirg... and the name pirg is derived from pirgue Greek word Πύργος which means tower.
George Kastriot is name of Skanderbeg on English language.
Majuru, please do not revert without explanation.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 13:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Did Gjon Kastrioti had some "official" royal title? Prince, King, duke, lord? Of what? Can someone help me understand? :) -- WhiteWriter speaks 20:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Here is work written by Konstantin Josef Jireček who mention Ivan's letter to merchants from Dubrovnik on February 25, 1420. The source says that it is "serbian letter". Page 334. It describes that a reason for him to write to merchants from Dubrovnik was Branković's order to those merchants to avoid Montenegro and travel from Dubrovnik to Kosovo trough area controlled by Ivan Kastriot. I propose to include this details in the article. Anybody against it?-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 15:09, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
I think that our discussion went to unproductive direction and lost connection with my proposal. Let us focus on my proposal. If you look at the beginning of this section you will notice that I proposed to add the information that on February 25, 1420 Ivan Kastriot sent a letter to merchants of Dubrovnik who traveled trough his land when trading with Serbia. Merchants from Dubrovnik used that route instead of their previous route trough land controlled by Gojčin Crnojević because Despot requested merchants to avoid land of Crnojević who was, together with other small feudal lords and highlander tribes, unsatisfied with strict regulations in Serbia enforced by despot.
I did not propose to use that letter as source. Instead, I proposed to use Jiricek's work as source. Based on the Jiričeks work I will add to the text of the article below information about Kastriot, supported with Jiricek's work:
On February 25, 1420 Gjon Kastriot wrote a letter on Serbian language to merchants from Dubrovnik. Based on the order of despot of Serbia, when they traveled from Dubrovnik to Prizren they had to use the route trough Shkodër in Albania Veneta and the Kastriot's land instead of the previous route trough the land under control of the small feudal lords and highlander tribes of Montenegro. [gjon 1]
Забрани деспот дубровчанима да иду тим путем, и нагна их да путују кроз млетачку скадарску област и кроз земљу Ивана Кастриота... Види српско писмо Ивана Кастриота од 25. фебруара 1420 за дубровачке трговце кроз његову земљу за Призрен (Despot forbid to Dubrovnik merchants to use that way, and ordered them to travel trough Venetian area in Scutari and trough land of Ivan Kastriot.... See serbian letter to merchants from Dubrovnik traveling trough his land to Prizren, written by Ivan Kastriot on February 25, 1420.
{{
cite book}}
: More than one of |author=
and |last=
specified (
help); More than one of |pages=
and |page=
specified (
help)
I agree with you that there is no different interpretation because there are two letters Ivan Kastriot wrote. Feel free to add information about another letter to the article, based on the referenced source.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 12:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I think that you did not provide arguments (grounded in wikipedia policies or common sense) for your intention to remove information (which is supported with referenced secondary source written by authoritative scholar) about existence of the letter written by Gjon/Ivan to merchants from Dubrovnik. If you don't agree with me and still insist on removal of that information, please follow Wikipedia:Dispute resolution recommendations.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 12:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
1420, 25. Februar. Geleitsbrief des Herrn Ivan (Kastriota) und seiner Sühne filr die Kaufleute von Ragusa auf dem Wege durch sein Land von Sufadaja (bei Alessio) nach Prizren, nebst Bestimmungen Uber die Zölle.
{{
citation}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=
, |editorn-last=
, |coauthors=
, |doi-inactive-date=
, |editorn-link=
, |nopp=
, |separator=
, |laysummary=
, |editorn=
, |editorn-first=
, |month=
, |chapterurl=
, |author-separator=
, and |lastauthoramp=
(
help); Unknown parameter |firstn=
ignored (
help)). This source present interpretation of Ivan's letter. Among other things, it says that with that letter Ivan informed merchants from Dubrovnik that they were granted
safe conduct when passing the land under his control, on their way to Prizren.--
Antidiskriminator (
talk)
22:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)That is not an interpretation, instead it is merely telling part of the text. However you should change your method of doing things. You insist on using primary sources which are easily misinterpreted, instead of using secondary sources which deal in detail with the topic. This case in hand is another example of your wrong method and I'll explain you why. The same document is published, studied and commented on Gjergj Kastrioti Skënderbeu: jeta dhe vepra, 1405–1468, Frashëri, Kristo (2002) (in Albanian), Botimet Toena, ISBN 9992716274. In four pages there is a photocopy of the document, what does it talk about and the interpretation (date, sons, borders, political situation etc) and that is from a book which deals with Skanderbeg and its family and published in 2002!! But hey, instead of using it, you insist on using primary sources of 1899, of which Kastrioti family was not even the topic!?!?
Just for showing you your wrong way of doing things which is against wiki rules I inform you that while you claim that "On February 25, 1420 Gjon Kastriot wrote a letter on Serbian language to merchants from Dubrovnik" actually " the document dated February 25, 1420 is a notary act held in notary office in Dubrovnik". I suppose you know the difference between them. This is the risk of following your method. A misinterpreted, unhistorical and nonacademic article. I strongly suggest you to actually read the right sources before editing here. You want to edit about Skanderbeg family? Ok no problem, but you have to read Noli, Frasheri, Bicoku, Shmitt, Hodgkinson, Plasari (latest book on Skanderbeg "Skënderbeu: një histori politike."(Skanderbeg: a political history) Author Plasari, Aurel. Publisher Gjergj Fishta ISBN: 9789995685508 Tiranë 2010). These are his main biographers, familiarize with them, then come here in wikipedia and edit. Aigest ( talk) 08:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
P.S. I will deal with that document interpretation when I'll find sometime. If you really want to use it than read Frasheri 2002. As I told you he dedicates 4 pages to that document. Aigest ( talk) 08:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
Gjon Kastrioti →
John Castriot – per
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility) "It is generally advisable to use the most common form of the name used in reliable sources in English...".
Gjon :
|
John:
|
John Castriot is most common form of his name. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 15:20, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
"Given the statistics, Antid's request essentially supports a return to the common use of the 19th century." - Incorrect. Below is statistics for after 19th century sources:
Statistics for after 19th century sources
|
---|
Gjon :
John:
|
In after 19th century sources form "John Castriot(a, i)" is also most commonly used (more than all other 9 forms together). In after 19th century sources John:Gjon=137:50 and Castriot(i,a):Kastriot(i,a)=107:43. In all sources John:Gjon=1,093:96 and Castriot(i,a):Kastriot(i,a)=1,024:165.-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 19:42, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Statistics for 21st century sources only
|
---|
|
(unindent) Please don't misrepresent the results Antidiskriminator and as Aigest said focus on modern results. Since the start your proposal has been about a return to the common use of the 19th century, however, wikipedia article titles are based on the common use of modern scholarship otherwise we'd use Anglicized/Latinized titles for most bios of personalities that lived before that era.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:31, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
U Valoni, na dvoru despota Jovana Komnena-Asena (1350. - 1363.), šurjaka cara Dušana i brata bugarskog cara Jovana Aleksandra, stajala je kolijevka moći Kastriota. U jednoj srpskoj povelji "avlonskog i kaninskog gospodina" Aleksandra, valjada sina despota Jovana, spominje se (1366) "ćefalija Kaninski Kastriot". Kako mu to pokazuje ime, taj ćefalija bio je podrijetlom Grk. Od Balše II dobio je on u leno dva sela u srednjoj Albaniji na Matu. Njegov potomak Ivan, "gospodin Ivan" u srpskim poveljama, "Ivan Castrioth" u mletačkim spomenicima...
{{
citation}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=
, |editorn-last=
, |doi-inactive-date=
, |editorn-link=
, |nopp=
, |separator=
, |laysummary=
, |editorn=
, |editorn-first=
, |month=
, |chapterurl=
, |author-separator=
, and |lastauthoramp=
(
help); More than one of |author=
and |last=
specified (
help); Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |firstn=
ignored (
help)It would be appreciated if someone who actually knows what is being referenced in the infobox under 'Issue' were to tidy it up. 'Issue' means children, not issues he dealt with. I'll try to get around to tidying it up myself at some point, but have such a backlog of copyediting, etc. that it won't happen for at least a couple of years. Cheers for any assistance! -- Iryna Harpy ( talk) 00:05, 16 February 2014 (UTC)