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I propose to start using the Albanian name, Gjeravica, for this article, as Albanian is the official language of Kosovo, and therefore place names should be in Albanian, as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). What does everyone else think? 2007apm ( talk) 23:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I propose to start using the Albanian name, Gjeravica, yep since its the Official name most of the people i've meet in the region of Gjeravica call it Gjeravica and they know that its written Gjeravica, i've visited the Gjeravica mountains and i hike a lot, and most of the people around the Shar mountains are Albanians, and since Kosovo is an independent state and the majority of people in Kosovo speak Albanian like 95% of them, i think it should be fair to use the name that the People from Kosovo use, not the old names used by the old people who occupied Kosovo for years and oppressed the people there. And yes Albanian is the Main Language in Kosovo and the Official one. Heroidshehu (Usertalk:Heroidshehu|talk]]) 20:15, 08 November 2010 (UTC)
Heroidshehu (Usertalk:Heroidshehu|talk]]) 13:02, 09 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, im Just adding some more pictures to this article and things i've seen there from my experience, lets leave the name aside for the moment we may settle it up later, first we need to make this article rich with more information and pictures, if you have more information about the region of Gjeravica you can add some more stuff... Yes i call it Gjeravica and will continue calling it so, although you probably know what i mean. Heroidshehu ( talk) 14:49, 09 November 2010 (UTC)
It is more common in the English language to use the native name, that is Kosovan name in the Albanian language especially when that name is more pronouncable in the English language. The English language speaker do not know how to pronounce the letter Đ but would more easiable say Gj instead. -- Imbris ( talk) 22:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
James Michael DuPont ( talk) 18:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move as proposed. JPG-GR ( talk) 16:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Đeravica → Djeravica — Based on the two sections above, to comply with our naming conventions by limiting ourselves to follow the name or form commonly used in English-language publications. — Ev ( talk) 18:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions and
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names).If we consider Kosovo a part of Serbia (as Belgrade does), then Đeravica is Serbia's highest point also. This fact was removed by Imbris with the following edit summary:
That explanation under the footnote [a] is quite enough, even more than enough. Peak of Communism was once the highest peak of USSR but not Russian Federation.
The answer is "no to both points".
First, the footnote only explains Kosovo's complicated political status. It does not mention anything about Đeravica being considered by some as Serbia's highest peak (nor should it, as that fact belongs in the article's body).
Second, you cannot reasonably compare Đeravica's situation with that of Communism Peak. The Russian Federation does not claim sovereignity over Tajikistan, nor is Tajikistan's sovereignity questioned by any other country as far as I'm aware. However, Serbia does claim sovereignity over Kosovo, and Kosovo's sovereignity is questioned by other countries. – Apples and oranges.
In any case, we're not factually asserting that Đeravica is Serbia's highest peak. We're merely mentioning that those who consider Kosovo to be a part of Serbia's sovereign territory (as Belgrade does) see Đeravica in that manner.
I have re-introduced the fact, using the Serbian government as source for its own position, clearly attributed. - Ev ( talk) 13:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I have changed it back. It is Serbia's highest peak. Show me some evidence that says the majority of the world's countries recognize the independence of Kosovo and it can be changed back.-- 217.203.131.146 ( talk) 23:44, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello, the page in being reverted without any comments. We are trying to improve this article. please stop reverting for no reason. thanks, mike James Michael DuPont ( talk) 12:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Kosovo_and_Metohija also redirects to Kosovo and that sets a good standard. Also no one uses serbian letters in english. THe funny "d" does not even exist on my keyboard. James Michael DuPont ( talk) 12:30, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Listen, let me present you with the biggest reason to change the name, the local people are offended with the serbian names. They live there, and they feel that wikipedia is biased to serbia. This is a major reason not to contribute to wikipedia. It has been a big problem all the time. The few vocal serbs who are pushing to keep the old name dont even live there and cannot contribute much. the people who do live there and can write are being excluded.
I would appreciate some comments on this. James Michael DuPont ( talk) 16:01, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm not against dual names. After all, they are undisputed facts, right? -- Bojan Talk 13:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Illir writes :
As a native Decanasa (The municipality that Gjeravica belongs to) , I herebly declare that this is Gjeravica and not that other one. This is how everybody calls it there and how it also will be calles in the future. BR, Ilir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.114.84.75 ( talk) 08:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Someone removed this. I think it is very important to document how people who live there call the mountain. We should be listening to them and encouraging them to edit, these are the people who will help improve the wikipedia , the people who live there,. not people far away who are just going by books and outdated information. I protest the removal of this comment! thanks, James Michael DuPont ( talk) 20:46, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi Anastan, regarding your revert of my edit an this subject. The source is the Yugoslav topographic map. At the time that it was made, about 1973, it was probably restricted, but it is no longer restricted and is therefore verifiable evidence. Someone has uploaded part of the map at the bottom of http://koha.net/?id=27&l=70174, which shows the 2658m summit in the Rudoka range. More recent mapping published by the Macedonian authorities also shows a 2561m summit, and that both summits are on the border with Kosovo. The difference is probably within the margin of error, but I think there is at least enough evidence to question the official claim that Gjeravica is the highest point in Kosovo - and, depending on your point of view, Serbia also. Viewfinder ( talk) 11:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. I've checked the edit history of the existing Gjeravica redirect per User:力 below, and it was all material that was already in the article in 2010 at the time of the fork, so doesn't need preservation. — Amakuru ( talk) 11:42, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
Đeravica → Gjeravica – Gjeravica is positioned within Kosovo and right next to the Albanian border. Neither country uses the letter ‘Đ‘ as it is not present in the Albanian alphabet - nor is it an anglicised title. I propose the move to ‘Gjeravica’ as English-language websites and official documents use this name (only a few of many are listed here): - https://bnadventure.com/gjeravica-hiking/ - https://www.summitpost.org/gjeravica/681380 - https://www.wikiloc.com/hiking-trails/gjeravica-34953410 - http://www.wandermap.net/en/route/1245532-gjeravica-kosovo/ - https://www.trailforks.com/region/gjeravica-31673/
Additionally, the Kosovo government uses this title as well as national or international organisations (one source of each is listed): - https://www.ammk-rks.net/repository/docs/Raporti_natyra_eng.pdf - https://openjicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/12039582.pdf - https://unhabitat.org/sites/default/files/download-manager-files/1407744386wpdm_Evaluation%20of%20MuSPP%20Phase%203%20Decentralized%20Evaluation%20%20July2014.pdf
To reiterate, this name change would, a) successfully consider the current official name of the mountain used by the government. b) replace an unanglicised title not used by the officials or environmental scientists and the like of Kosovo, as well as national and international organisations. c) acknowledge the fact that modern hiking and tourism websites in the English language use the title, ‘Gjeravica’, and the current page name may confuse tourists and visitors who are researching the area. BleronZ ( talk) 13:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC) BleronZ ( talk) 13:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Excine ( talk) 17:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
— Relisting. Muhibm0307 ( talk) 01:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about Gjeravica. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Gjeravica at the Reference desk. |
![]() | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I propose to start using the Albanian name, Gjeravica, for this article, as Albanian is the official language of Kosovo, and therefore place names should be in Albanian, as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). What does everyone else think? 2007apm ( talk) 23:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I propose to start using the Albanian name, Gjeravica, yep since its the Official name most of the people i've meet in the region of Gjeravica call it Gjeravica and they know that its written Gjeravica, i've visited the Gjeravica mountains and i hike a lot, and most of the people around the Shar mountains are Albanians, and since Kosovo is an independent state and the majority of people in Kosovo speak Albanian like 95% of them, i think it should be fair to use the name that the People from Kosovo use, not the old names used by the old people who occupied Kosovo for years and oppressed the people there. And yes Albanian is the Main Language in Kosovo and the Official one. Heroidshehu (Usertalk:Heroidshehu|talk]]) 20:15, 08 November 2010 (UTC)
Heroidshehu (Usertalk:Heroidshehu|talk]]) 13:02, 09 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, im Just adding some more pictures to this article and things i've seen there from my experience, lets leave the name aside for the moment we may settle it up later, first we need to make this article rich with more information and pictures, if you have more information about the region of Gjeravica you can add some more stuff... Yes i call it Gjeravica and will continue calling it so, although you probably know what i mean. Heroidshehu ( talk) 14:49, 09 November 2010 (UTC)
It is more common in the English language to use the native name, that is Kosovan name in the Albanian language especially when that name is more pronouncable in the English language. The English language speaker do not know how to pronounce the letter Đ but would more easiable say Gj instead. -- Imbris ( talk) 22:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
James Michael DuPont ( talk) 18:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move as proposed. JPG-GR ( talk) 16:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Đeravica → Djeravica — Based on the two sections above, to comply with our naming conventions by limiting ourselves to follow the name or form commonly used in English-language publications. — Ev ( talk) 18:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions and
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names).If we consider Kosovo a part of Serbia (as Belgrade does), then Đeravica is Serbia's highest point also. This fact was removed by Imbris with the following edit summary:
That explanation under the footnote [a] is quite enough, even more than enough. Peak of Communism was once the highest peak of USSR but not Russian Federation.
The answer is "no to both points".
First, the footnote only explains Kosovo's complicated political status. It does not mention anything about Đeravica being considered by some as Serbia's highest peak (nor should it, as that fact belongs in the article's body).
Second, you cannot reasonably compare Đeravica's situation with that of Communism Peak. The Russian Federation does not claim sovereignity over Tajikistan, nor is Tajikistan's sovereignity questioned by any other country as far as I'm aware. However, Serbia does claim sovereignity over Kosovo, and Kosovo's sovereignity is questioned by other countries. – Apples and oranges.
In any case, we're not factually asserting that Đeravica is Serbia's highest peak. We're merely mentioning that those who consider Kosovo to be a part of Serbia's sovereign territory (as Belgrade does) see Đeravica in that manner.
I have re-introduced the fact, using the Serbian government as source for its own position, clearly attributed. - Ev ( talk) 13:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I have changed it back. It is Serbia's highest peak. Show me some evidence that says the majority of the world's countries recognize the independence of Kosovo and it can be changed back.-- 217.203.131.146 ( talk) 23:44, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello, the page in being reverted without any comments. We are trying to improve this article. please stop reverting for no reason. thanks, mike James Michael DuPont ( talk) 12:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Kosovo_and_Metohija also redirects to Kosovo and that sets a good standard. Also no one uses serbian letters in english. THe funny "d" does not even exist on my keyboard. James Michael DuPont ( talk) 12:30, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Listen, let me present you with the biggest reason to change the name, the local people are offended with the serbian names. They live there, and they feel that wikipedia is biased to serbia. This is a major reason not to contribute to wikipedia. It has been a big problem all the time. The few vocal serbs who are pushing to keep the old name dont even live there and cannot contribute much. the people who do live there and can write are being excluded.
I would appreciate some comments on this. James Michael DuPont ( talk) 16:01, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm not against dual names. After all, they are undisputed facts, right? -- Bojan Talk 13:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Illir writes :
As a native Decanasa (The municipality that Gjeravica belongs to) , I herebly declare that this is Gjeravica and not that other one. This is how everybody calls it there and how it also will be calles in the future. BR, Ilir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.114.84.75 ( talk) 08:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Someone removed this. I think it is very important to document how people who live there call the mountain. We should be listening to them and encouraging them to edit, these are the people who will help improve the wikipedia , the people who live there,. not people far away who are just going by books and outdated information. I protest the removal of this comment! thanks, James Michael DuPont ( talk) 20:46, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi Anastan, regarding your revert of my edit an this subject. The source is the Yugoslav topographic map. At the time that it was made, about 1973, it was probably restricted, but it is no longer restricted and is therefore verifiable evidence. Someone has uploaded part of the map at the bottom of http://koha.net/?id=27&l=70174, which shows the 2658m summit in the Rudoka range. More recent mapping published by the Macedonian authorities also shows a 2561m summit, and that both summits are on the border with Kosovo. The difference is probably within the margin of error, but I think there is at least enough evidence to question the official claim that Gjeravica is the highest point in Kosovo - and, depending on your point of view, Serbia also. Viewfinder ( talk) 11:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. I've checked the edit history of the existing Gjeravica redirect per User:力 below, and it was all material that was already in the article in 2010 at the time of the fork, so doesn't need preservation. — Amakuru ( talk) 11:42, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
Đeravica → Gjeravica – Gjeravica is positioned within Kosovo and right next to the Albanian border. Neither country uses the letter ‘Đ‘ as it is not present in the Albanian alphabet - nor is it an anglicised title. I propose the move to ‘Gjeravica’ as English-language websites and official documents use this name (only a few of many are listed here): - https://bnadventure.com/gjeravica-hiking/ - https://www.summitpost.org/gjeravica/681380 - https://www.wikiloc.com/hiking-trails/gjeravica-34953410 - http://www.wandermap.net/en/route/1245532-gjeravica-kosovo/ - https://www.trailforks.com/region/gjeravica-31673/
Additionally, the Kosovo government uses this title as well as national or international organisations (one source of each is listed): - https://www.ammk-rks.net/repository/docs/Raporti_natyra_eng.pdf - https://openjicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/12039582.pdf - https://unhabitat.org/sites/default/files/download-manager-files/1407744386wpdm_Evaluation%20of%20MuSPP%20Phase%203%20Decentralized%20Evaluation%20%20July2014.pdf
To reiterate, this name change would, a) successfully consider the current official name of the mountain used by the government. b) replace an unanglicised title not used by the officials or environmental scientists and the like of Kosovo, as well as national and international organisations. c) acknowledge the fact that modern hiking and tourism websites in the English language use the title, ‘Gjeravica’, and the current page name may confuse tourists and visitors who are researching the area. BleronZ ( talk) 13:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC) BleronZ ( talk) 13:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Excine ( talk) 17:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
— Relisting. Muhibm0307 ( talk) 01:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)