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Jon Yarian said that,
Nice bit of spin, until you consider that it appears that their office was contributing to our project in the first place. Jon, nice try. [1] - Ta bu shi da yu 09:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
What I would really like to know is why the heck were house staffers using a government office and equipment to edit this article. Were they on the clock (and the taxpayer dime) when they repeatedly tried to delete a reminder of Gil's vow not to become a career politician? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.180.154.209 ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 22 August 2006.
The thing about him saying he wouldn't run after 12 years should be left out. It is very POV.-- Zonerocks 16:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following text:
The pledge was part of the 1994 Contract with America. In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled that term limits were unconstitutional. [1] Guknecht voted for a Constitutional Amendment to limit Congressional terms to 12 years but it was defeated on a largely party line vote [2]
The first sentence is absolutely incorrect, and the second and third sentences are therefore irrelevant. The USAToday article [2] lists about a dozen legislators who made separate pledges of different lengths (some were for only six years). By contrast, the Contract with America "was signed by all but two of the Republican members of the House, and all of the Party's non-incumbent Republican Congressional candidates."
Please discuss the matter here before reinserting the text into the article. Thanks! John Broughton 12:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
The Contract with America is absolutely relevant and part of all the Freshman congressman pledges when they ran for office. It is at least relevant. Simply the fact that his pledge matched the Contract's pledge is relevant. His pledge may have been in addition to the termlimits ammendment but it is relevant, sourced and factual. Also, ovting for a Constitutional Ammendment for term limits is also relevant to a pledge of term limits. -- Tbeatty 18:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
His pedlge was part of the contract. That's why the quote is "If I ever break this contract..." I reworded it so they are separate as I can see the other side but they are connected. And he has votes for term limits on the record. That's relevant. The fact that they weren't made part of the constitution is relevant. The CWA item on term limits was a Constitutional Ammendment to limit congress terms to 12 years. That vote and the ammendments status is relevant, sourced and factual.-- Tbeatty 20:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
References
The way it reads now is NPOV and gives a clear indication of the separateness of the two issues. There was a pledge. There was also a signing. They are not one in the same. Here's the wording:
Gutknecht is running for re-election in 2006 despite his 1994 pledge, when he was first elected, that he would never serve more than 12 years. He said then: "If I ever break this contract, throw me out."[1][2]
In addition to this pledge, Gutknecht signed the 1994 Contract with America, which called for 12 year congressional term limits by Constitutional Amendment (such amendment held unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1995).
-- DavidShankBone 19:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
You are right, I'm wrong. The wording reads fine now to me. -- DavidShankBone 20:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
In response to Rossp's edits removing the sentence on Walz, I would like to propose we leave it in. It is pertinent to know who Gutknecht's Democratic opponent will be in November and it matches the Walz entry which makes mention of Gutknecht. -- Boubelium 18:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
When I researched this issue (after arguing for a point over which I was wrong, I admit) I could not find the "throw me out" phrase uttered by Gutknecht. I only want the article to be accurate, not partisan. Where this comes from, it seems, is the pledge at the bottom of the contract: "If we break this contract, throw us out." If this is the only source for GG saying this, then does qualify as a quote, but should read, more accurately, "If [I] break this contract, throw [me] out." The quote, as it exists now, does not have support. -- DavidShankBone 21:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
This is the paragraph I propose:
Gutknecht is running for re-election in 2006 despite his 1994 pledge, when he was first elected, that he would never serve more than 12 years. He said then: "If [I] ever break this contract, throw [me] out." [1] [2] The pledge mirrored the one found in the 1994 Contract with America that called for 12 year congressional term limits. In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled in U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton that congressional term limit laws are unconstitutional. [1] Gutknecht voted for a Constitutional Amendment, but it failed to win the two-thirds majority of the House required before it could move on to the Senate. [3]
If the quote really is talking about the "contract with america" with "If we break this contract, throw us out.", then the contract with america was fulfilled since it only required a vote within the first 100 days. We need to use the quote exactly. I don't think it is okay to use [I] where it was a [we] meaning of the Contract with America.--
Tbeatty
21:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, I question the reliablility of "MyDD" as a source for this article. I don't think it's notable or reliable. -- Tbeatty 21:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC).
The bill eventually failed, but that didn’t stop the then freshman congressman from CD1. In 1995 he introduced his own bill limiting the pensions of legislators with the purpose of providing “incentive for people to stay no longer than 12 years ”. This too failed and to demonstrate his unfailing support of the contract Gutknecht unequivocally declared: “I will not serve more than 12 years. ” That was one year after being elected, eleven years ago.
References
I'm adding info to the article regarding Gutknecht making a separate pledge to term limits - that is, a pledge separate from the CWA. In addition to the sources cited in the article, I note the following May 29, 2004 AP story: quoted on this page:
Gutknecht came to office in 1994 as part of a Republican movement engineered by then-Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and featured the Republican Contract with America, which limited lawmakers to 12 years. The proposal eventually died in the House.
It was in the immediate wake of that defeat that Gutknecht, who had resisted making a personal term limit pledge during his first campaign, said he would leave office by 2006.
"I will not serve more than 12 years," Gutknecht was quoted in March 1995.
Further, Tbeatty has not responding to my point, made above, that several hundred Republican candidates and House incumbents signed the Contract with American, but the USA Today story listed less than a dozen, including Gutknecht, in its sidebar. Why? Obviously, because those were the ones that made a separate pledge. (The CWA did NOT commit the Republicans to term limits - it committed them to getting term limits voted on within the first 100 days.) John Broughton 00:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
We now have Congressman Gutknecht's loss to Tim Walz mentioned in the infobox, intro paragraph, Events of 2006 section, and Electoral history section. I think we got the point. Do we really need all of these? Kablammo 04:40, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed a reference to his nephew. I'm sure people about whom biographical information is in Wikipedia have relatives. However, I see no point in mentioning them unless they are notable. SlowJog ( talk) 18:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
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This is Brian Harte. In 1995 I tried to prove that Fauci was a liar and a fraud. Covid vaccines are not safe and effective. CDC has now admitted it. I expect an apology. 73.129.19.102 ( talk) 21:24, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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Jon Yarian said that,
Nice bit of spin, until you consider that it appears that their office was contributing to our project in the first place. Jon, nice try. [1] - Ta bu shi da yu 09:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
What I would really like to know is why the heck were house staffers using a government office and equipment to edit this article. Were they on the clock (and the taxpayer dime) when they repeatedly tried to delete a reminder of Gil's vow not to become a career politician? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.180.154.209 ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 22 August 2006.
The thing about him saying he wouldn't run after 12 years should be left out. It is very POV.-- Zonerocks 16:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following text:
The pledge was part of the 1994 Contract with America. In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled that term limits were unconstitutional. [1] Guknecht voted for a Constitutional Amendment to limit Congressional terms to 12 years but it was defeated on a largely party line vote [2]
The first sentence is absolutely incorrect, and the second and third sentences are therefore irrelevant. The USAToday article [2] lists about a dozen legislators who made separate pledges of different lengths (some were for only six years). By contrast, the Contract with America "was signed by all but two of the Republican members of the House, and all of the Party's non-incumbent Republican Congressional candidates."
Please discuss the matter here before reinserting the text into the article. Thanks! John Broughton 12:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
The Contract with America is absolutely relevant and part of all the Freshman congressman pledges when they ran for office. It is at least relevant. Simply the fact that his pledge matched the Contract's pledge is relevant. His pledge may have been in addition to the termlimits ammendment but it is relevant, sourced and factual. Also, ovting for a Constitutional Ammendment for term limits is also relevant to a pledge of term limits. -- Tbeatty 18:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
His pedlge was part of the contract. That's why the quote is "If I ever break this contract..." I reworded it so they are separate as I can see the other side but they are connected. And he has votes for term limits on the record. That's relevant. The fact that they weren't made part of the constitution is relevant. The CWA item on term limits was a Constitutional Ammendment to limit congress terms to 12 years. That vote and the ammendments status is relevant, sourced and factual.-- Tbeatty 20:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
References
The way it reads now is NPOV and gives a clear indication of the separateness of the two issues. There was a pledge. There was also a signing. They are not one in the same. Here's the wording:
Gutknecht is running for re-election in 2006 despite his 1994 pledge, when he was first elected, that he would never serve more than 12 years. He said then: "If I ever break this contract, throw me out."[1][2]
In addition to this pledge, Gutknecht signed the 1994 Contract with America, which called for 12 year congressional term limits by Constitutional Amendment (such amendment held unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1995).
-- DavidShankBone 19:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
You are right, I'm wrong. The wording reads fine now to me. -- DavidShankBone 20:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
In response to Rossp's edits removing the sentence on Walz, I would like to propose we leave it in. It is pertinent to know who Gutknecht's Democratic opponent will be in November and it matches the Walz entry which makes mention of Gutknecht. -- Boubelium 18:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
When I researched this issue (after arguing for a point over which I was wrong, I admit) I could not find the "throw me out" phrase uttered by Gutknecht. I only want the article to be accurate, not partisan. Where this comes from, it seems, is the pledge at the bottom of the contract: "If we break this contract, throw us out." If this is the only source for GG saying this, then does qualify as a quote, but should read, more accurately, "If [I] break this contract, throw [me] out." The quote, as it exists now, does not have support. -- DavidShankBone 21:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
This is the paragraph I propose:
Gutknecht is running for re-election in 2006 despite his 1994 pledge, when he was first elected, that he would never serve more than 12 years. He said then: "If [I] ever break this contract, throw [me] out." [1] [2] The pledge mirrored the one found in the 1994 Contract with America that called for 12 year congressional term limits. In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled in U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton that congressional term limit laws are unconstitutional. [1] Gutknecht voted for a Constitutional Amendment, but it failed to win the two-thirds majority of the House required before it could move on to the Senate. [3]
If the quote really is talking about the "contract with america" with "If we break this contract, throw us out.", then the contract with america was fulfilled since it only required a vote within the first 100 days. We need to use the quote exactly. I don't think it is okay to use [I] where it was a [we] meaning of the Contract with America.--
Tbeatty
21:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, I question the reliablility of "MyDD" as a source for this article. I don't think it's notable or reliable. -- Tbeatty 21:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC).
The bill eventually failed, but that didn’t stop the then freshman congressman from CD1. In 1995 he introduced his own bill limiting the pensions of legislators with the purpose of providing “incentive for people to stay no longer than 12 years ”. This too failed and to demonstrate his unfailing support of the contract Gutknecht unequivocally declared: “I will not serve more than 12 years. ” That was one year after being elected, eleven years ago.
References
I'm adding info to the article regarding Gutknecht making a separate pledge to term limits - that is, a pledge separate from the CWA. In addition to the sources cited in the article, I note the following May 29, 2004 AP story: quoted on this page:
Gutknecht came to office in 1994 as part of a Republican movement engineered by then-Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and featured the Republican Contract with America, which limited lawmakers to 12 years. The proposal eventually died in the House.
It was in the immediate wake of that defeat that Gutknecht, who had resisted making a personal term limit pledge during his first campaign, said he would leave office by 2006.
"I will not serve more than 12 years," Gutknecht was quoted in March 1995.
Further, Tbeatty has not responding to my point, made above, that several hundred Republican candidates and House incumbents signed the Contract with American, but the USA Today story listed less than a dozen, including Gutknecht, in its sidebar. Why? Obviously, because those were the ones that made a separate pledge. (The CWA did NOT commit the Republicans to term limits - it committed them to getting term limits voted on within the first 100 days.) John Broughton 00:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
We now have Congressman Gutknecht's loss to Tim Walz mentioned in the infobox, intro paragraph, Events of 2006 section, and Electoral history section. I think we got the point. Do we really need all of these? Kablammo 04:40, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed a reference to his nephew. I'm sure people about whom biographical information is in Wikipedia have relatives. However, I see no point in mentioning them unless they are notable. SlowJog ( talk) 18:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
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This is Brian Harte. In 1995 I tried to prove that Fauci was a liar and a fraud. Covid vaccines are not safe and effective. CDC has now admitted it. I expect an apology. 73.129.19.102 ( talk) 21:24, 24 July 2022 (UTC)