This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
PRESS NOW EUROPE - the content you are adding to the lead is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. The lead is meant to be a summary of the body of the article - you should insert it somewhere else, and then perhaps mention it briefly in the lead.
Also, you are using a Wikipedia page as a citation - that is not allowed, see WP:RS and WP:UGC.
Finally, please familiarise yourself with the WP:BRD cycle - you are required to discuss changes after being reverted, not simply reinstate your change. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 17:29, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Should the "Controversies" section be removed from the article (see history)? Opening per WP:BRD, whilst it is sourced an IP editor has pointed out it was added by a sockpuppet so I won't revert further. Pahunkat ( talk) 12:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
I am extremely concerned of your wanton abuse of authority to mislabel the information I provided to a wikipedia page. You are everything that is wrong with this site and the reason why I will not be making any future financial contributions. You are encouraging revisionsm and neo-facism. Don't pretend that you are an expert when you are ironically dismissing an internationally renowned expert who has dedicated their entire life to such a topic. Mkat29 ( talk) 05:38, 23 January 2021 (UTC) mkat29 ( Mkat29 ( talk) 05:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC))mkat29
I know you are not an expert. I am upset because I am aware that there are plenty of neo-Ustase people out there who deliberately spread misinformation on wikipedia. They are actively trying to discredit Dr. Greif's work because they are ultranationalists. This is why I am in firm support of locking Gideon Greif's page once we get this matter sorted out. I actually did cite a source and I will cite it here again at the end. The new death toll was discovered by Holocaust expert Gideon Greif. It was erroneously cited on wikipedia as "outdated" when in fact the finding is based on very recent findings from 2019. There is also misinformation on wikipedia saying that Dr. Greif is not well informed on the topic when in fact he is the foremost expert on the topic. No one is more qualified to speak on the matter. Dr. Greif points out that the death toll includes 800 000 Serbs and 40 000 Jews. Unfortunately he doesn't provide a new death toll for the Romas. The old death toll was 40 000 for this group. When anti-fascists are factored into the count it easily reached 1, 000 000. Greif acknowledges that there was still many mass graves that have yet to be exhumed. Additionally, the death toll does not factor in those who were burned in Picilli's furnace, turned into soap etc. Dr. Greif has spent 30 years on Yad Veshem, the world's leading authority for Holocaust information. He spent four years of his life studying the Serbian genocide and came to the conclusion that the death toll is much higher than perviously thought this is due in part to many reason's including but not limited to Tito's denial of the genocide in favour or "brotherhood" and "unity." Here is the source which discusses Greif's book "Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans" which I am in possession of. Lastly there was incorrect information on Greif's page saying that the UN was distancing himself from his work when it in fact was the opposite. The UN hosted his exhibition "Jasenovac- the Right to Remembrance" was held at the UN headquarters in NY on January 26, 2018. You need to understand the impact and gravity of spreading misinformation about genocides whether deliberately or through negligence.
Death toll of the Serbian Genocide of WWII which will need to be added to that webpage.
Gideon Greif: More than 800 000 (Gideon Greif, Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans, 2019 p.355.)
Historian Menachem Shelah: at least 500 000 (Menachem, Shelah (ed.), History of the Holocaust- Yugoslavia, [Hebrew], Yad Vashem, Jerusalem, 1990.
Hermann Neubacher (special envoy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Third Reich to Yugoslavia): more than 750 000 (Sonderaftrag Sudost 1940-1945, 1957, p31.)
Vladimir Dedijer: 600 000-700 000 (Vladimir Dedijer, Vatikan i Jasenovac, 1987, p.644.)
Thank you.
Mkat29 ( talk) 18:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC) https://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2019&mm=02&dd=01&nav_id=106124
Mkat29 ( talk) 18:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC)mkat29
I propose several changes. Here are the changes I propose for Gideon Greif's page.
Adding this segment to his introduction/summary. "Dr. Greif has spent four years of his life examining every single known archive on the topic of the Serbian Genocide making him one of the world's leading experts on it. In 2018, he published "Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans." Source: https://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2019&mm=02&dd=01&nav_id=106124
I propose removing the following from Dr. Greif's page:
From "Special Projects:" "while the UN distanced itself from the Project." This is a contradictory and frankly idiotic statement as the UN hosted Dr. Greif's exhibition in January 2018. The agenda of this statement is to add an unfounded claim to discredit Greif.
Adding "Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans" in his notable works section.
Removing "which is a controversial outdated estimation." This is factually incorrect. Dr. Greif's findings were in fact very recent from 2018- the opposite of what "outdated" means. Furthermore this figure is only controversial for ultranationalist Croats who continually deny or revise death toll numbers with outdated or controversial sources. Dr. Greif is a world renowned Holocaust expert who has spent 30 years with Yad Vashem. He is an authority on the topic.
Lastly, I propose the following changes for the page: "Genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia"
Renaming the page to the much simpler "Serbian Genocide" or "Balkan Holocaust." I do not recommend renaming it "Jasenovac" even though it is used by Dr. Greif. I find it to be far too limiting. While Jasenovac was a mega camp where hundreds of thousands were brutally murdered; there were over 30 concentration camps throughout the ISC (Independent State of Croatia.) In addition to frequent massacres throughout the ISC. All of which did not happen in the Jasenovac complex.
Adding in Dr. Greif's death toll in the main area in the blue box which should state: "More than 800 000" or "800 000 to over 1 million" I have already provided the source for this above in the earlier section.
I strongly recommend locking Dr. Gideon Greif's page to the highest possible lock as he has been harassed by ultranationalist Croats who aim to discredit him and his work (such as Ina Vukic for example.) I don't want to have to constantly have this discussion for all eternity by arguing my points when they can easily access it and change his information for their own neo-Ustase/ultranationalist agenda.
Thank you
(@
Sadko:)
Mkat29 ( talk) 16:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)mkat29
I am a historian not a coder. I have provided you the info. You can do with it what you wish. You can flush it down the toilet if you want. I will no longer be making any more donations to this site. No one cares about the truth here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkat29 ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Well-sourced edits related to controversies surrounding this individual are being removed and at best replaced with non-sourced content in order to misrepresent the controversies surrounding Greif's denial of the Srebrenica genocide and the inflation of victims at Jasenovac. This is problematic as it results in an inaccurate and one-sided Wikipedia entry. Roansteam ( talk) 10:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
User 46.239.6.162 has been editing the article in a very biased manner - sources are misrepresented, quotes edited so that it is different than the source material. Very problematic as readers may not check sources to see whether it is correctly quoted - especially when it comes to direct quotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roansteam ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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PRESS NOW EUROPE - the content you are adding to the lead is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. The lead is meant to be a summary of the body of the article - you should insert it somewhere else, and then perhaps mention it briefly in the lead.
Also, you are using a Wikipedia page as a citation - that is not allowed, see WP:RS and WP:UGC.
Finally, please familiarise yourself with the WP:BRD cycle - you are required to discuss changes after being reverted, not simply reinstate your change. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 17:29, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Should the "Controversies" section be removed from the article (see history)? Opening per WP:BRD, whilst it is sourced an IP editor has pointed out it was added by a sockpuppet so I won't revert further. Pahunkat ( talk) 12:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
I am extremely concerned of your wanton abuse of authority to mislabel the information I provided to a wikipedia page. You are everything that is wrong with this site and the reason why I will not be making any future financial contributions. You are encouraging revisionsm and neo-facism. Don't pretend that you are an expert when you are ironically dismissing an internationally renowned expert who has dedicated their entire life to such a topic. Mkat29 ( talk) 05:38, 23 January 2021 (UTC) mkat29 ( Mkat29 ( talk) 05:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC))mkat29
I know you are not an expert. I am upset because I am aware that there are plenty of neo-Ustase people out there who deliberately spread misinformation on wikipedia. They are actively trying to discredit Dr. Greif's work because they are ultranationalists. This is why I am in firm support of locking Gideon Greif's page once we get this matter sorted out. I actually did cite a source and I will cite it here again at the end. The new death toll was discovered by Holocaust expert Gideon Greif. It was erroneously cited on wikipedia as "outdated" when in fact the finding is based on very recent findings from 2019. There is also misinformation on wikipedia saying that Dr. Greif is not well informed on the topic when in fact he is the foremost expert on the topic. No one is more qualified to speak on the matter. Dr. Greif points out that the death toll includes 800 000 Serbs and 40 000 Jews. Unfortunately he doesn't provide a new death toll for the Romas. The old death toll was 40 000 for this group. When anti-fascists are factored into the count it easily reached 1, 000 000. Greif acknowledges that there was still many mass graves that have yet to be exhumed. Additionally, the death toll does not factor in those who were burned in Picilli's furnace, turned into soap etc. Dr. Greif has spent 30 years on Yad Veshem, the world's leading authority for Holocaust information. He spent four years of his life studying the Serbian genocide and came to the conclusion that the death toll is much higher than perviously thought this is due in part to many reason's including but not limited to Tito's denial of the genocide in favour or "brotherhood" and "unity." Here is the source which discusses Greif's book "Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans" which I am in possession of. Lastly there was incorrect information on Greif's page saying that the UN was distancing himself from his work when it in fact was the opposite. The UN hosted his exhibition "Jasenovac- the Right to Remembrance" was held at the UN headquarters in NY on January 26, 2018. You need to understand the impact and gravity of spreading misinformation about genocides whether deliberately or through negligence.
Death toll of the Serbian Genocide of WWII which will need to be added to that webpage.
Gideon Greif: More than 800 000 (Gideon Greif, Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans, 2019 p.355.)
Historian Menachem Shelah: at least 500 000 (Menachem, Shelah (ed.), History of the Holocaust- Yugoslavia, [Hebrew], Yad Vashem, Jerusalem, 1990.
Hermann Neubacher (special envoy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Third Reich to Yugoslavia): more than 750 000 (Sonderaftrag Sudost 1940-1945, 1957, p31.)
Vladimir Dedijer: 600 000-700 000 (Vladimir Dedijer, Vatikan i Jasenovac, 1987, p.644.)
Thank you.
Mkat29 ( talk) 18:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC) https://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2019&mm=02&dd=01&nav_id=106124
Mkat29 ( talk) 18:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC)mkat29
I propose several changes. Here are the changes I propose for Gideon Greif's page.
Adding this segment to his introduction/summary. "Dr. Greif has spent four years of his life examining every single known archive on the topic of the Serbian Genocide making him one of the world's leading experts on it. In 2018, he published "Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans." Source: https://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2019&mm=02&dd=01&nav_id=106124
I propose removing the following from Dr. Greif's page:
From "Special Projects:" "while the UN distanced itself from the Project." This is a contradictory and frankly idiotic statement as the UN hosted Dr. Greif's exhibition in January 2018. The agenda of this statement is to add an unfounded claim to discredit Greif.
Adding "Jasenovac: Aushwitz of the Balkans" in his notable works section.
Removing "which is a controversial outdated estimation." This is factually incorrect. Dr. Greif's findings were in fact very recent from 2018- the opposite of what "outdated" means. Furthermore this figure is only controversial for ultranationalist Croats who continually deny or revise death toll numbers with outdated or controversial sources. Dr. Greif is a world renowned Holocaust expert who has spent 30 years with Yad Vashem. He is an authority on the topic.
Lastly, I propose the following changes for the page: "Genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia"
Renaming the page to the much simpler "Serbian Genocide" or "Balkan Holocaust." I do not recommend renaming it "Jasenovac" even though it is used by Dr. Greif. I find it to be far too limiting. While Jasenovac was a mega camp where hundreds of thousands were brutally murdered; there were over 30 concentration camps throughout the ISC (Independent State of Croatia.) In addition to frequent massacres throughout the ISC. All of which did not happen in the Jasenovac complex.
Adding in Dr. Greif's death toll in the main area in the blue box which should state: "More than 800 000" or "800 000 to over 1 million" I have already provided the source for this above in the earlier section.
I strongly recommend locking Dr. Gideon Greif's page to the highest possible lock as he has been harassed by ultranationalist Croats who aim to discredit him and his work (such as Ina Vukic for example.) I don't want to have to constantly have this discussion for all eternity by arguing my points when they can easily access it and change his information for their own neo-Ustase/ultranationalist agenda.
Thank you
(@
Sadko:)
Mkat29 ( talk) 16:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)mkat29
I am a historian not a coder. I have provided you the info. You can do with it what you wish. You can flush it down the toilet if you want. I will no longer be making any more donations to this site. No one cares about the truth here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkat29 ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Well-sourced edits related to controversies surrounding this individual are being removed and at best replaced with non-sourced content in order to misrepresent the controversies surrounding Greif's denial of the Srebrenica genocide and the inflation of victims at Jasenovac. This is problematic as it results in an inaccurate and one-sided Wikipedia entry. Roansteam ( talk) 10:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
User 46.239.6.162 has been editing the article in a very biased manner - sources are misrepresented, quotes edited so that it is different than the source material. Very problematic as readers may not check sources to see whether it is correctly quoted - especially when it comes to direct quotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roansteam ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 28 February 2022 (UTC)