This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Should the article say that Llanitos are an ethnic group a cultural group or a nation? I'm not sure we can find citations for any of them, but if we can, that would be a good start. I don't like "ethnic group" because ethnicity means race. It would mean that the link between Gibraltarians was a genetic one, when in fact Gibraltarians are a mix of Maltese, Genoese etc. The term would also exclude Jewish Gibraltarians, Indian Gibraltarians etc. from being considered Gibraltarain people. More appropriate would be "cultural group" as what links us is our culture, language, community etc. Nation also works, but a citation for it would be good. Opinions? Saluton ( talk) 18:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
This was deleted as "trolling" by Gibmetal. Please, try to debate something before erasing it without explanation. The title of the section questions whether to label the Gibraltarian comunity as an ethnic group, a cultural group or a nation. This is an interesting issue, due to the differences within those terms. I tried to contribute by saying:
I don't agree. Indeed, Gibraltarians are not an ethnic group, neither are they a nation (From the definition of Nation in Wikipedia: "as an example, the United Kingdom is an internationally recognised sovereign state, which is also referred to as a country and whose inhabitants have British nationality. It is however traditionally divided into four home nations or home countries— - England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.").
Llanitos share a culture, and to some degree, they are a cultural group. A nation is formed quite naturally and shares, in it's majority, a common history and ancestry. If you want to affirm positively that Gibraltar is a nation, you should provide sources and such as it is really hard to imagine a garrison as a nation. Even a city: Italian historic cities, which have been independent since ancient times and have a much richer history and a much more homogenous ancestry are not labelled as nations anywhere. Why is this the case of Gibraltar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.53.209 ( talk) 21:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for sourcing it!
It would be great, though, if you can find a source not directly related to the "Oficial Government of Gibraltar" nor focused at "attempting to redefine the status of Gibraltar and thereby enable the discussions between Britain and Spain over the future of the territory to move forward". Not really neutral sources, don't you think?
Anyway, the article is better today than yesterday. Cheers!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.53.209 ( talk) 13:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Unlike most other places, Gibraltar enjoys a very varied ethnic and religious demography. Indeed we have a Christian Chief Minister, an atheist Leader of the Opposition, a Hindu speaker and a Jewish mayor. All of whom are native Gibraltarians. RedCoat10 ( talk) 11:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
The native population did not "quit". They not only left the Rock in 1704. They were forced to do so. Please, let's tell the story as it happened. The actual redaction is not neutral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.63.38 ( talk) 09:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The terms of surrender do not prove an historical fact. You should not forget that Gibraltarian people surrendered after fighting. After being besieged. And that proves, indeed, that wasn't their will to leave their homes. It's not like they went out and told Rooke "be my guest". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.63.38 ( talk) 11:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Isn't there any figure on such people? Are the Gibraltarians listed in the census only those with actual residence in Gibraltar? -- Ecemaml ( talk) 16:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Could you please add the page numbers (or chapters) of references Exit Britannia; Britain’s Last Conquest of Menorca 1798 - 1802 and Minorca, the illusory prize : a history of the British occupations of Minorca between 1708 and 1802? (from Wikipedia:Verifiability: "The source should be cited clearly and precisely, with page numbers where appropriate, and must clearly support the material as presented in the article") Thanks -- Ecemaml ( talk) 22:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
No, the statement could be removed simply because it fails to comply with wikipedia principles as no proper sources are provided. It seems rather strange to me that provided you're an expert on wikipedia policies and guidelines you "forgot" to provide exact and not generic sources (and that you even forgot to photocopy them, as long as you know they can be obviously challenged). I've provided a link to the two "sources" you use (it was not that difficult). One of them is in full text, so it would be easy for you to find the chapter or section (let me guess, no mention to such sending off will be found). The other is in google books, so it would be simple for you to provide the page. Let me guess, the page supporting your statement is restricted and cannot be seen. Bet? -- Ecemaml ( talk) 15:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC) PS: it's really irrelevant for me if Spain is reflected in a bad or good light (curious principle you apply to wikipedia articles). However, I'm not a friend of lies, regardless of who says them.
Thank you, Justin, for complying with Wikipedia policies. It's a pity that following our principles is something I have to thank. Moreover, it seems a real joke that after saying "Let me guess, the reference will now be removed for a specious reason and the section removed as uncited because someone thinks it may in some small way reflect badly on Spain" you complain about my "bad faith". Anyway, the good news is that we don't have dubious content not supported by source. The even better news is that, as you say, I have "an extensive library on Gibraltar", and I've found just the opposite (don't worry, I'll add the sources during the weekend... I have a lot of new information about Gibraltar wishing to share with our readers; as an advance, you can read here, page 42, with no statements on miserable Minorcans being expelled from their island). -- Ecemaml ( talk) 11:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC) PS: anyway, although protected, it's possible to search for specific works in the book. "Gibraltar" is mentioned in page 214, but with no relationship to the alleged Minorcans forced to leave.
So, you're free to assume bad faith "based on" my edits, but if I do the same, it's intolerable bad faith... interesting. However, I don't want to argue on how bad or how good is a given editor. I prefer to focus on the article. And I must say that although the text is nowadays better, it's equally unsupported by sources. First of all, you mention Exit Britannia; Britain’s Last Conquest of Menorca 1798 - 1802, chapter 10. I take that chapter and the only information that could be related to the emigration of Minorcans is the mention to Orfila and to "several individuals that, I am afraid, will suffer considerably for their attachment and good will towards the English". Well, those paragraphs obviously talk about the Minorcans that had collaborated with the British administration. They thought that their future could be dubious in the case of transfer of sovereignty. No source states whether such people were helped by the British, in which way they were helped (if so) and if such help (if existing) translated into movement to Gibraltar. That's simply, original investigation (interestingly, Minorca, the illusory prize : a history of the British occupations of Minorca between 1708 and 1802 clarifies that Orfila remained in Minorca and was tried and imprisoned in Barcelona) and it's good such a dubious statement was been removed by you. I'll provide better sources and rephrase the sentence. -- Ecemaml ( talk) 23:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the "nation" statement because it is a complete misuse of the source provided and is not appropriate at this article anyway. The correct way to phrase it would be "which Peter Gold argues can be considered to be a nation". It is certainly not accepted fact that Gibraltar is a nation. And besides, this article is about the Gibraltarian people rather than Gibraltar. Note the abstract of the source says "it is possible to define Gibraltar as a 'nation'" whereas this article claimed "the Gibraltarians ... are a Southern European nation" which is a misrepresentation. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 18:55, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
This article completely skirts over the Gibraltarian people (aka the people of Gibraltar) prior to the British takeover, and where they went. I'm not necessarily saying that we need to strictly define "Gibraltarian" to include them, but they need a proper mention to maintain neutrality. The current wording suggests that the people living there before 1704 were Spanish rather than Gibraltarian, which is putting a huge spin on the situation. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 18:52, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Two definitions from respected dictionaries:
* Collins: adj of or relating to Gibraltar or its inhabitants * OED: adjective relating to Gibraltar
Can it be any clearer? The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 00:34, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
If I am getting it right (and I am not really sure of that, by the way), the discussion here is whether the word 'Gibraltarian' within the terms ' Gibraltarian people' is a legal status by definition or a regular demonym (just like Londoner, Berliner or Parisian). There are two possible ways to proceed:
Huh? That is original research. Which source states that there was no demonym for the natives of Gibraltar? (Quote textually, please) Cremallera ( talk) 18:09, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Hey, you started the pertinent talk page sections :) What did you have in mind?
I'd leave it up to you (if you are ok with that, of course), although there are a few things which in my opinion are relevant to this article. For openers, here's a brief (and merely indicatory in purpose, I am absolutely not suggesting to publish this) summary regarding the population of Gibraltar's history:
We can trace back the origins of Gibraltar and its people to the XII century, when the Almohad castle was built, later to be expanded as a fortified town. The next 3 centuries it changed a few times of hands (Almohads, Marinids, Castillians, Kingdom of Granada, the Duchy of Medina-Sidonia and ultimately the Spanish Crown) standing mainly under control of distinct Muslim factions. Following the Reconquista, the place fell under Christian dominion and was eventually handed to the Spanish Crown upon request of the Catholic Kings. I assume that the people were forced to
convert or leave, as this happened throughout the Iberian Peninsula (Edict of
Expulsion of the Jews, 1492 in the Kingdoms of Aragon and Castille, 1497 in Portugal and 1498 in Navarre; Edict of
Expulsion of the Moriscos in 1609). To those who stood we could possibly add further Christian populators (although the only "Christian repopulation" in Gibraltar I am positive about -per George Hills, pp.39 & 40- occurred after the first Castillian takeover of the town in 1309).
In 1704
George Rooke seized the town and almost all the (surviving) Gibraltarians fled, most of them settling around a Shrine devoted to Saint Roch nearby. When the subsequent counter-siege was lifted in 1705 the settlement of San Roque had become permanent, and royal authority was granted to the refugees in order to establish it as a
city with Gibraltar's former standard, records and City Council.
During the XVIII century, "the town and garrison of Gibraltar in the Kingdom of Spain" wasn't very populous as it was essentially a military outpost (of great strategic value). After the 1779-1783 massive Franco-Spanish siege the fortress proved impregnable, and the turmoil of the Peninsular War preceded the convulsed XIX century in Spain, which in turn brought a period of relative quietness to the Campo de Gibraltar area. A demographic boost ensued, and well into the XIX century Gibraltar was promoted to Crown Colony.
My thoughts:
Sorry, I feel like I've just written the Bible. If you managed to read through that... What do you think?
Cremallera (
talk) 13:01, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Wait wait wait... The word's Gibraltarian? Most people (including the BBC) use Gibraltan... 217.174.211.1 ( talk) 19:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
“ | Present day Gibraltarians are a racial and cultural fusion of the many immigrants who came to the Rock of Gibraltar over three hundred years. They are the descendants of economic migrants that came to Gibraltar following its capture by Britain in 1704. | ” |
“ | Since the XII century until 1704, the town of Gibraltar had been inhabited by people under Muslim and, later, Spanish rule. A pivotal change in the population of the town happened in that year, when Anglo-Dutch troops captured the town, the villagers suffered several atrocities and, in spite of certain assurances in the terms of surrender after the order was restored, all but 70 of the 4,000 existing Gibraltarians fled to the surrounding Campo de Gibraltar.[3] The few Spaniards who remained left in 1727 when Gibraltar was subjected to its second Spanish siege. | ” |
“ | From that year, Gibraltarian population has grown again from being a simple garrison to form today, thanks to the migrants of mainly British and Mediterranean origin, a very diverse people with a very characteristic culture. | ” |
“ | (Then the rest of the section about origins, and the rest of the article about religion, etc.) | ” |
The term 'Gibraltarian' was not in use prior to 1800, although Hills and other Spanish sources have used it since to describe the Spanish residents of Gibraltar, they were not termed that at the time. The term only applies to the current population of Gibraltar and its application retrospectively is inappropriate. -- Gibnews ( talk) 15:18, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Those that left Gibraltar in AD 1704 took with them the mutilated statue of Our Lady of Europe. A Chapel was constructed for her in Algeciras. These same Gibraltarians were able to continue their devotion.
I do not think that among the ethnic groups of which gibraltarian people descend 26% were Spaniards, I think the percentage is less, I think 10% of the ancestors of the people of Gibraltar weres spaniard, and the rest were British, Italian, Maltese, Portuguese .. etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.29.113.144 ( talk) 23:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I added section on major family names of Gibraltar by origin (Italian, Maltese, Portuguese etc...) Since Gib has a small population I thought this would be feasible and interesting. I'm missing quite a few so any help would be appreciated. I still haven's started the Sephardic Jewish section or the Portuguese. Asilah1981 ( talk) 16:58, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gibraltarians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:30, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
I have removed an unsourced statement claiming "numerous nicknames" are used by Spaniards to refer to Gibraltarians. As far as I know and by what can be seen in a quick google search they are referred to as either Llanitos or Gibraltarenos. Asilah1981 ( talk) 08:13, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Discasto Your edit doesn't sound right in English. Suggest you rephrase. Asilah1981 ( talk) 12:30, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
Have these not been forbidden in Wikipedia? I thought of deleting right now but maybe for such a small population an exception can be made? Asilah1981 ( talk) 19:40, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Anyone? Would like opinions prior to proceeding with deletion. Asilah1981 ( talk) 10:37, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gibraltarians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/images/stories/PDF/statistics/Census_of_Gibraltar_2001.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:16, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
[9] Checked cited source and it doesn't support the claims made. Hence, I have removed the text. I would remind editors that any new text would require consensus before it is added. W C M email 22:29, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
“ | After three days of battle, on 4 August, Gibraltar was successfully seized. Of the 4,000 inhabitants, all but 70 fled across the isthmus into the hinterland of the Campo de Gibraltar, many settling temporarily (or so they thought) in San Roque, which two years later King Philip V of Spain dubbed ‘My city of Gibraltar resident in its Campo’. | ” |
The only source for the figure for the Gibraltarian population in Gibraltar is dead with no archive or reupload, in addition to it being from over 13 years ago, and the source for the UK, US, Spain, and Other population figures measures nationality, not ethnicity, meaning its of dubious relevance to an article about an ethnic group. In addition, the figures listed for Gibraltarian populations in Morocco, Spain, and Portugal need clarification as to whether their respective figures include occupied Western Sahara, Ceuta, Melilla, and Olivenza. ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System ( talk) 04:27, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Should the article say that Llanitos are an ethnic group a cultural group or a nation? I'm not sure we can find citations for any of them, but if we can, that would be a good start. I don't like "ethnic group" because ethnicity means race. It would mean that the link between Gibraltarians was a genetic one, when in fact Gibraltarians are a mix of Maltese, Genoese etc. The term would also exclude Jewish Gibraltarians, Indian Gibraltarians etc. from being considered Gibraltarain people. More appropriate would be "cultural group" as what links us is our culture, language, community etc. Nation also works, but a citation for it would be good. Opinions? Saluton ( talk) 18:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
This was deleted as "trolling" by Gibmetal. Please, try to debate something before erasing it without explanation. The title of the section questions whether to label the Gibraltarian comunity as an ethnic group, a cultural group or a nation. This is an interesting issue, due to the differences within those terms. I tried to contribute by saying:
I don't agree. Indeed, Gibraltarians are not an ethnic group, neither are they a nation (From the definition of Nation in Wikipedia: "as an example, the United Kingdom is an internationally recognised sovereign state, which is also referred to as a country and whose inhabitants have British nationality. It is however traditionally divided into four home nations or home countries— - England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.").
Llanitos share a culture, and to some degree, they are a cultural group. A nation is formed quite naturally and shares, in it's majority, a common history and ancestry. If you want to affirm positively that Gibraltar is a nation, you should provide sources and such as it is really hard to imagine a garrison as a nation. Even a city: Italian historic cities, which have been independent since ancient times and have a much richer history and a much more homogenous ancestry are not labelled as nations anywhere. Why is this the case of Gibraltar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.53.209 ( talk) 21:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for sourcing it!
It would be great, though, if you can find a source not directly related to the "Oficial Government of Gibraltar" nor focused at "attempting to redefine the status of Gibraltar and thereby enable the discussions between Britain and Spain over the future of the territory to move forward". Not really neutral sources, don't you think?
Anyway, the article is better today than yesterday. Cheers!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.53.209 ( talk) 13:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Unlike most other places, Gibraltar enjoys a very varied ethnic and religious demography. Indeed we have a Christian Chief Minister, an atheist Leader of the Opposition, a Hindu speaker and a Jewish mayor. All of whom are native Gibraltarians. RedCoat10 ( talk) 11:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
The native population did not "quit". They not only left the Rock in 1704. They were forced to do so. Please, let's tell the story as it happened. The actual redaction is not neutral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.63.38 ( talk) 09:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The terms of surrender do not prove an historical fact. You should not forget that Gibraltarian people surrendered after fighting. After being besieged. And that proves, indeed, that wasn't their will to leave their homes. It's not like they went out and told Rooke "be my guest". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.63.38 ( talk) 11:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Isn't there any figure on such people? Are the Gibraltarians listed in the census only those with actual residence in Gibraltar? -- Ecemaml ( talk) 16:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Could you please add the page numbers (or chapters) of references Exit Britannia; Britain’s Last Conquest of Menorca 1798 - 1802 and Minorca, the illusory prize : a history of the British occupations of Minorca between 1708 and 1802? (from Wikipedia:Verifiability: "The source should be cited clearly and precisely, with page numbers where appropriate, and must clearly support the material as presented in the article") Thanks -- Ecemaml ( talk) 22:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
No, the statement could be removed simply because it fails to comply with wikipedia principles as no proper sources are provided. It seems rather strange to me that provided you're an expert on wikipedia policies and guidelines you "forgot" to provide exact and not generic sources (and that you even forgot to photocopy them, as long as you know they can be obviously challenged). I've provided a link to the two "sources" you use (it was not that difficult). One of them is in full text, so it would be easy for you to find the chapter or section (let me guess, no mention to such sending off will be found). The other is in google books, so it would be simple for you to provide the page. Let me guess, the page supporting your statement is restricted and cannot be seen. Bet? -- Ecemaml ( talk) 15:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC) PS: it's really irrelevant for me if Spain is reflected in a bad or good light (curious principle you apply to wikipedia articles). However, I'm not a friend of lies, regardless of who says them.
Thank you, Justin, for complying with Wikipedia policies. It's a pity that following our principles is something I have to thank. Moreover, it seems a real joke that after saying "Let me guess, the reference will now be removed for a specious reason and the section removed as uncited because someone thinks it may in some small way reflect badly on Spain" you complain about my "bad faith". Anyway, the good news is that we don't have dubious content not supported by source. The even better news is that, as you say, I have "an extensive library on Gibraltar", and I've found just the opposite (don't worry, I'll add the sources during the weekend... I have a lot of new information about Gibraltar wishing to share with our readers; as an advance, you can read here, page 42, with no statements on miserable Minorcans being expelled from their island). -- Ecemaml ( talk) 11:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC) PS: anyway, although protected, it's possible to search for specific works in the book. "Gibraltar" is mentioned in page 214, but with no relationship to the alleged Minorcans forced to leave.
So, you're free to assume bad faith "based on" my edits, but if I do the same, it's intolerable bad faith... interesting. However, I don't want to argue on how bad or how good is a given editor. I prefer to focus on the article. And I must say that although the text is nowadays better, it's equally unsupported by sources. First of all, you mention Exit Britannia; Britain’s Last Conquest of Menorca 1798 - 1802, chapter 10. I take that chapter and the only information that could be related to the emigration of Minorcans is the mention to Orfila and to "several individuals that, I am afraid, will suffer considerably for their attachment and good will towards the English". Well, those paragraphs obviously talk about the Minorcans that had collaborated with the British administration. They thought that their future could be dubious in the case of transfer of sovereignty. No source states whether such people were helped by the British, in which way they were helped (if so) and if such help (if existing) translated into movement to Gibraltar. That's simply, original investigation (interestingly, Minorca, the illusory prize : a history of the British occupations of Minorca between 1708 and 1802 clarifies that Orfila remained in Minorca and was tried and imprisoned in Barcelona) and it's good such a dubious statement was been removed by you. I'll provide better sources and rephrase the sentence. -- Ecemaml ( talk) 23:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the "nation" statement because it is a complete misuse of the source provided and is not appropriate at this article anyway. The correct way to phrase it would be "which Peter Gold argues can be considered to be a nation". It is certainly not accepted fact that Gibraltar is a nation. And besides, this article is about the Gibraltarian people rather than Gibraltar. Note the abstract of the source says "it is possible to define Gibraltar as a 'nation'" whereas this article claimed "the Gibraltarians ... are a Southern European nation" which is a misrepresentation. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 18:55, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
This article completely skirts over the Gibraltarian people (aka the people of Gibraltar) prior to the British takeover, and where they went. I'm not necessarily saying that we need to strictly define "Gibraltarian" to include them, but they need a proper mention to maintain neutrality. The current wording suggests that the people living there before 1704 were Spanish rather than Gibraltarian, which is putting a huge spin on the situation. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 18:52, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Two definitions from respected dictionaries:
* Collins: adj of or relating to Gibraltar or its inhabitants * OED: adjective relating to Gibraltar
Can it be any clearer? The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 00:34, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
If I am getting it right (and I am not really sure of that, by the way), the discussion here is whether the word 'Gibraltarian' within the terms ' Gibraltarian people' is a legal status by definition or a regular demonym (just like Londoner, Berliner or Parisian). There are two possible ways to proceed:
Huh? That is original research. Which source states that there was no demonym for the natives of Gibraltar? (Quote textually, please) Cremallera ( talk) 18:09, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Hey, you started the pertinent talk page sections :) What did you have in mind?
I'd leave it up to you (if you are ok with that, of course), although there are a few things which in my opinion are relevant to this article. For openers, here's a brief (and merely indicatory in purpose, I am absolutely not suggesting to publish this) summary regarding the population of Gibraltar's history:
We can trace back the origins of Gibraltar and its people to the XII century, when the Almohad castle was built, later to be expanded as a fortified town. The next 3 centuries it changed a few times of hands (Almohads, Marinids, Castillians, Kingdom of Granada, the Duchy of Medina-Sidonia and ultimately the Spanish Crown) standing mainly under control of distinct Muslim factions. Following the Reconquista, the place fell under Christian dominion and was eventually handed to the Spanish Crown upon request of the Catholic Kings. I assume that the people were forced to
convert or leave, as this happened throughout the Iberian Peninsula (Edict of
Expulsion of the Jews, 1492 in the Kingdoms of Aragon and Castille, 1497 in Portugal and 1498 in Navarre; Edict of
Expulsion of the Moriscos in 1609). To those who stood we could possibly add further Christian populators (although the only "Christian repopulation" in Gibraltar I am positive about -per George Hills, pp.39 & 40- occurred after the first Castillian takeover of the town in 1309).
In 1704
George Rooke seized the town and almost all the (surviving) Gibraltarians fled, most of them settling around a Shrine devoted to Saint Roch nearby. When the subsequent counter-siege was lifted in 1705 the settlement of San Roque had become permanent, and royal authority was granted to the refugees in order to establish it as a
city with Gibraltar's former standard, records and City Council.
During the XVIII century, "the town and garrison of Gibraltar in the Kingdom of Spain" wasn't very populous as it was essentially a military outpost (of great strategic value). After the 1779-1783 massive Franco-Spanish siege the fortress proved impregnable, and the turmoil of the Peninsular War preceded the convulsed XIX century in Spain, which in turn brought a period of relative quietness to the Campo de Gibraltar area. A demographic boost ensued, and well into the XIX century Gibraltar was promoted to Crown Colony.
My thoughts:
Sorry, I feel like I've just written the Bible. If you managed to read through that... What do you think?
Cremallera (
talk) 13:01, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Wait wait wait... The word's Gibraltarian? Most people (including the BBC) use Gibraltan... 217.174.211.1 ( talk) 19:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
“ | Present day Gibraltarians are a racial and cultural fusion of the many immigrants who came to the Rock of Gibraltar over three hundred years. They are the descendants of economic migrants that came to Gibraltar following its capture by Britain in 1704. | ” |
“ | Since the XII century until 1704, the town of Gibraltar had been inhabited by people under Muslim and, later, Spanish rule. A pivotal change in the population of the town happened in that year, when Anglo-Dutch troops captured the town, the villagers suffered several atrocities and, in spite of certain assurances in the terms of surrender after the order was restored, all but 70 of the 4,000 existing Gibraltarians fled to the surrounding Campo de Gibraltar.[3] The few Spaniards who remained left in 1727 when Gibraltar was subjected to its second Spanish siege. | ” |
“ | From that year, Gibraltarian population has grown again from being a simple garrison to form today, thanks to the migrants of mainly British and Mediterranean origin, a very diverse people with a very characteristic culture. | ” |
“ | (Then the rest of the section about origins, and the rest of the article about religion, etc.) | ” |
The term 'Gibraltarian' was not in use prior to 1800, although Hills and other Spanish sources have used it since to describe the Spanish residents of Gibraltar, they were not termed that at the time. The term only applies to the current population of Gibraltar and its application retrospectively is inappropriate. -- Gibnews ( talk) 15:18, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Those that left Gibraltar in AD 1704 took with them the mutilated statue of Our Lady of Europe. A Chapel was constructed for her in Algeciras. These same Gibraltarians were able to continue their devotion.
I do not think that among the ethnic groups of which gibraltarian people descend 26% were Spaniards, I think the percentage is less, I think 10% of the ancestors of the people of Gibraltar weres spaniard, and the rest were British, Italian, Maltese, Portuguese .. etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.29.113.144 ( talk) 23:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I added section on major family names of Gibraltar by origin (Italian, Maltese, Portuguese etc...) Since Gib has a small population I thought this would be feasible and interesting. I'm missing quite a few so any help would be appreciated. I still haven's started the Sephardic Jewish section or the Portuguese. Asilah1981 ( talk) 16:58, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gibraltarians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:30, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
I have removed an unsourced statement claiming "numerous nicknames" are used by Spaniards to refer to Gibraltarians. As far as I know and by what can be seen in a quick google search they are referred to as either Llanitos or Gibraltarenos. Asilah1981 ( talk) 08:13, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Discasto Your edit doesn't sound right in English. Suggest you rephrase. Asilah1981 ( talk) 12:30, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
Have these not been forbidden in Wikipedia? I thought of deleting right now but maybe for such a small population an exception can be made? Asilah1981 ( talk) 19:40, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Anyone? Would like opinions prior to proceeding with deletion. Asilah1981 ( talk) 10:37, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gibraltarians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/images/stories/PDF/statistics/Census_of_Gibraltar_2001.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:16, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
[9] Checked cited source and it doesn't support the claims made. Hence, I have removed the text. I would remind editors that any new text would require consensus before it is added. W C M email 22:29, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
“ | After three days of battle, on 4 August, Gibraltar was successfully seized. Of the 4,000 inhabitants, all but 70 fled across the isthmus into the hinterland of the Campo de Gibraltar, many settling temporarily (or so they thought) in San Roque, which two years later King Philip V of Spain dubbed ‘My city of Gibraltar resident in its Campo’. | ” |
The only source for the figure for the Gibraltarian population in Gibraltar is dead with no archive or reupload, in addition to it being from over 13 years ago, and the source for the UK, US, Spain, and Other population figures measures nationality, not ethnicity, meaning its of dubious relevance to an article about an ethnic group. In addition, the figures listed for Gibraltarian populations in Morocco, Spain, and Portugal need clarification as to whether their respective figures include occupied Western Sahara, Ceuta, Melilla, and Olivenza. ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System ( talk) 04:27, 19 March 2022 (UTC)