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This article fails to mention the backlash the film has received for casting ScarJo in the lead role of the live-action movie adaptation. The movie may not even be made with her in mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.114.41 ( talk) 12:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
First off, theres too much media interconnecting eachother. its far too difficult to do so. Even if we were to merge the manga back, we would still have to organize it differently. There would have to be a "related media" and "alternate series" sections. and if you can't agree to those, we might aswell keep this article. Lucia Black ( talk) 06:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
ANd the TV series obtained OVAs, manga, novel, and video game adaptations of their own. The films has also received novels of their own, and the OVA series also has a manga adaptation of their own. YOu want to do it all unilaterally for this article, you're going to have to oranize it by "Manga, Films, TV series, and OVA". Which i promise you will not as clean as you expect.
Their is a reason why you didn't remove the names from the media, and its because you know its to help organize the article the way i intended, but in the way you feel comfortable reading it as. But the problem is still "redundancy". We dont need a "video games" section, just because you want it, it contradicts your edit before when you removed the other games.
Theres too much Cross-media. al their respected articles are organized universally by type of media, but they are covering a single series. This article isn't. Lucia Black ( talk) 18:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
No they don't all have the same writer or the same Director. The films are done by Mamoru Oshii, the SAC series is done by Kenji Kamiayama, the Arise series is done by Kazuchika Kise. And i wouldn't compare it too easily to Marvel and DC as they are constantly redoing the plot of their own stories, and none of their stories are organized. its completely different in GITS case as its only a small handful that is clearly defined by reliable sources.
Although everything is an extension of the manga in "some" form, that doesn't mean that all the forms are the same. The video game spin-off (confirmed to being part of the original manga's continuation) isn't equal to the Stand Alone Complex series that garnered its own media. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:13, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Not too long ago, you were against such organization. Now you're for it? And for what reason? Only so that the video game gets its own section. You had no consensus for it. and i'm going back to my revision because its the most sensible. you are not even trying to provide a reason why it should be organized the way it is.
No more distractions. Answer me this: What does the previous rendition do that the other doesn't? Lucia Black ( talk) 07:29, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
"The year 2013 saw the start of the Ghost in the Shell: Arise film series with the release of the first two episodes. The third episode of the four-part series is set to be released on June 28, 2014."
It seems as though the last edit to this was prior to the release of Borders 3 and Border 4 this year (2014). However, I don't feel comfortable enough to make changes since I'm unsure of the actual release dates (besides what is written in the wiki) or how to correctly update that sentence. Or does it even need to be there, anymore?
"[..]with the release of the first two episodes while 2014 concluded the series with the release of the two final episodes." Perhaps?-- 172.15.5.84 ( talk) 20:12, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
I would like to iterate to everyone that the original publishing title of the franchise has always been Kōkaku Kidōtai, Kokaku Kidotai or 攻殻機動隊 ( written in Japanese above the subtitle). The Ghost in the Shell was indeed the subtitle of the first one volume plot in the manga, as well as any Western localizations of series installments, but that does not excuse retconning history and leaving out the original title. I would like User:Ryulong to provide any reasons to the contrary here. -- BrettMosco ( talk) 23:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Brett is correct. The original title as released was Ghost in the Shell. The over zealousness of the Chinese commenter is unnecessary and incorrect. Anyway a more important note is the supposed literal translation of the title is inaccurate. 攻殻 xould in no context ever mean "mobile" and "armored" is a bit of a stretch as we would use that to mean shell. Literally: SHELL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.3.105.57 ( talk) 15:13, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I think the title translation/formatting in the first sentence could use some work. Currently it reads
Ghost in the Shell, known in Japan as Mobile Armored Riot Police (Japanese: 攻殻機動隊, Hepburn: Kōkaku Kidōtai)
however, this is not usually how Wikipedia deals with animes that have different titles in the original and in the English translation. For example, see these articles:
Neon Genesis Evangelion (Japanese: 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン, Hepburn: Shinseiki Evangerion, lit. "New Century Gospel")
Attack on Titan (Japanese: 進撃の巨人, Hepburn: Shingeki no Kyojin, lit. "The Attack Titan")
Fullmetal Alchemist (Japanese: 鋼の錬金術師, Hepburn: Hagane no Renkinjutsushi, lit. "Alchemist of Steel")
Erased, known in Japan as Boku dake ga Inai Machi (僕だけがいない街, lit. The Town Where Only I Am Missing)
Umineko: When They Cry (うみねこのなく頃に, Umineko no Naku Koro ni, lit. When the Seagulls Cry)
Based on this, I would either put bold on the English title only, or bold the Hepburn transliteration, but I would not bold the literal translation. I believe the phrase "Mobile Armored Riot Police" is invented by some Wikipedia editor, so it seems excessive to give it so much weight.
Second, as other people noted above, I think the translation "Mobile Armored Riot Police" is a bit dubious. The phrase kōkaku is an invented word in this anime, literally it means something like "attack shell" or "offensive shell". (When googling, I came across a blogpost by someone saying that based on the title they would have expected the anime to feature mechas shaped like sea-shells.) The Japanese article gloss it as "9課は、思考戦車という“殻”を着て戦う“攻性”の組織であることから“攻殻機動隊”とも呼ばれている"---"because Section 9 is an 'offensive' organization, which fights wearing think-tank 'shells', it is also known as kōkaku kidōtai", and cite some official pamphlet. So maybe we can be a bit more literal about it.
(In addition, I wonder if it's problematic to translate kidōtai as 'riot police', since Section 9 doesn't seem like what we would call riot police in English---they seem more like a combination of a SWAT unit and an investigation unit. Maybe the Japanese word doesn't completely overlap with the English one. Kidōtai literally means "mobile unit", and while this word mainly seems used in the riot police force, elsewhere in the Japanese police system there are also 'mobile investigation units' Kidō sōsatai, and 'traffic mobile units' kōtsū kidōtai. The word 'mobile' means that these units are not responsible for a particular geographical area but can be put to use where they are needed, I guess simlar to the French Mobile Gendarmerie.)
Anyway, unless anyone has any better idea, I propose changing the intro to say
Ghost in the Shell, known in Japan as Kōkaku Kidōtai (Japanese: 攻殻機動隊, lit. Attack Shell Riot Police)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ghost in the Shell article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4Auto-archiving period: 31 days
![]() |
![]() | Ghost in the Shell was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:
|
This article fails to mention the backlash the film has received for casting ScarJo in the lead role of the live-action movie adaptation. The movie may not even be made with her in mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.114.41 ( talk) 12:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
First off, theres too much media interconnecting eachother. its far too difficult to do so. Even if we were to merge the manga back, we would still have to organize it differently. There would have to be a "related media" and "alternate series" sections. and if you can't agree to those, we might aswell keep this article. Lucia Black ( talk) 06:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
ANd the TV series obtained OVAs, manga, novel, and video game adaptations of their own. The films has also received novels of their own, and the OVA series also has a manga adaptation of their own. YOu want to do it all unilaterally for this article, you're going to have to oranize it by "Manga, Films, TV series, and OVA". Which i promise you will not as clean as you expect.
Their is a reason why you didn't remove the names from the media, and its because you know its to help organize the article the way i intended, but in the way you feel comfortable reading it as. But the problem is still "redundancy". We dont need a "video games" section, just because you want it, it contradicts your edit before when you removed the other games.
Theres too much Cross-media. al their respected articles are organized universally by type of media, but they are covering a single series. This article isn't. Lucia Black ( talk) 18:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
No they don't all have the same writer or the same Director. The films are done by Mamoru Oshii, the SAC series is done by Kenji Kamiayama, the Arise series is done by Kazuchika Kise. And i wouldn't compare it too easily to Marvel and DC as they are constantly redoing the plot of their own stories, and none of their stories are organized. its completely different in GITS case as its only a small handful that is clearly defined by reliable sources.
Although everything is an extension of the manga in "some" form, that doesn't mean that all the forms are the same. The video game spin-off (confirmed to being part of the original manga's continuation) isn't equal to the Stand Alone Complex series that garnered its own media. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:13, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Not too long ago, you were against such organization. Now you're for it? And for what reason? Only so that the video game gets its own section. You had no consensus for it. and i'm going back to my revision because its the most sensible. you are not even trying to provide a reason why it should be organized the way it is.
No more distractions. Answer me this: What does the previous rendition do that the other doesn't? Lucia Black ( talk) 07:29, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
"The year 2013 saw the start of the Ghost in the Shell: Arise film series with the release of the first two episodes. The third episode of the four-part series is set to be released on June 28, 2014."
It seems as though the last edit to this was prior to the release of Borders 3 and Border 4 this year (2014). However, I don't feel comfortable enough to make changes since I'm unsure of the actual release dates (besides what is written in the wiki) or how to correctly update that sentence. Or does it even need to be there, anymore?
"[..]with the release of the first two episodes while 2014 concluded the series with the release of the two final episodes." Perhaps?-- 172.15.5.84 ( talk) 20:12, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
I would like to iterate to everyone that the original publishing title of the franchise has always been Kōkaku Kidōtai, Kokaku Kidotai or 攻殻機動隊 ( written in Japanese above the subtitle). The Ghost in the Shell was indeed the subtitle of the first one volume plot in the manga, as well as any Western localizations of series installments, but that does not excuse retconning history and leaving out the original title. I would like User:Ryulong to provide any reasons to the contrary here. -- BrettMosco ( talk) 23:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Brett is correct. The original title as released was Ghost in the Shell. The over zealousness of the Chinese commenter is unnecessary and incorrect. Anyway a more important note is the supposed literal translation of the title is inaccurate. 攻殻 xould in no context ever mean "mobile" and "armored" is a bit of a stretch as we would use that to mean shell. Literally: SHELL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.3.105.57 ( talk) 15:13, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I think the title translation/formatting in the first sentence could use some work. Currently it reads
Ghost in the Shell, known in Japan as Mobile Armored Riot Police (Japanese: 攻殻機動隊, Hepburn: Kōkaku Kidōtai)
however, this is not usually how Wikipedia deals with animes that have different titles in the original and in the English translation. For example, see these articles:
Neon Genesis Evangelion (Japanese: 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン, Hepburn: Shinseiki Evangerion, lit. "New Century Gospel")
Attack on Titan (Japanese: 進撃の巨人, Hepburn: Shingeki no Kyojin, lit. "The Attack Titan")
Fullmetal Alchemist (Japanese: 鋼の錬金術師, Hepburn: Hagane no Renkinjutsushi, lit. "Alchemist of Steel")
Erased, known in Japan as Boku dake ga Inai Machi (僕だけがいない街, lit. The Town Where Only I Am Missing)
Umineko: When They Cry (うみねこのなく頃に, Umineko no Naku Koro ni, lit. When the Seagulls Cry)
Based on this, I would either put bold on the English title only, or bold the Hepburn transliteration, but I would not bold the literal translation. I believe the phrase "Mobile Armored Riot Police" is invented by some Wikipedia editor, so it seems excessive to give it so much weight.
Second, as other people noted above, I think the translation "Mobile Armored Riot Police" is a bit dubious. The phrase kōkaku is an invented word in this anime, literally it means something like "attack shell" or "offensive shell". (When googling, I came across a blogpost by someone saying that based on the title they would have expected the anime to feature mechas shaped like sea-shells.) The Japanese article gloss it as "9課は、思考戦車という“殻”を着て戦う“攻性”の組織であることから“攻殻機動隊”とも呼ばれている"---"because Section 9 is an 'offensive' organization, which fights wearing think-tank 'shells', it is also known as kōkaku kidōtai", and cite some official pamphlet. So maybe we can be a bit more literal about it.
(In addition, I wonder if it's problematic to translate kidōtai as 'riot police', since Section 9 doesn't seem like what we would call riot police in English---they seem more like a combination of a SWAT unit and an investigation unit. Maybe the Japanese word doesn't completely overlap with the English one. Kidōtai literally means "mobile unit", and while this word mainly seems used in the riot police force, elsewhere in the Japanese police system there are also 'mobile investigation units' Kidō sōsatai, and 'traffic mobile units' kōtsū kidōtai. The word 'mobile' means that these units are not responsible for a particular geographical area but can be put to use where they are needed, I guess simlar to the French Mobile Gendarmerie.)
Anyway, unless anyone has any better idea, I propose changing the intro to say
Ghost in the Shell, known in Japan as Kōkaku Kidōtai (Japanese: 攻殻機動隊, lit. Attack Shell Riot Police)