![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
There is repeated mention in the article of the use of "tear gas". This is a general non-specific term but the specific chemical fired by the police was "CS gas". Since not all "tear gas" is "CS gas", and "CS gas" is the more specific and the accurate term to use in this case, I suggest we change "tear gas" to "cs gas". Here is a source that notes that what was used was CS gas: http://www.todayszaman.com/columnistDetail_getNewsById.action?newsId=318254 - there are other similar ones, plus of course the numerous photos of the spent canisters, all marked "CS Gas". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.143.19 ( talk) 15:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Here is something really interesting. Turkish media didn't show this so I learned this one now. It can be related with the protests and democratic acts in Turkey, as the weapons were probably destinated for Mursi supporters, or Free Syrian Army (which the Turkish protesters are also protesting against). Should we mention about this in the article ? Berkaysnklf ( talk), 18 July, 2013, 22:49 (UTC)
And by the way, the detainments need a real update as the number passed 100 already and increasing. I can't find a source talking about the total numbers but lots of partial sources talking about partial numbers. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 18 July, 2013, 22:52 (UTC)
Wait, there is a certain misunderstanding here. What do we use arrest part and what do we use detaintment part for ? For example, there are 119 people sent into "a prison" and at least 4,900 to 5,000 people "taken in custody" and at least 66 people still being "held in custody". We need to organize these parts urgently as the Human Rights Watch and Turkey Human Rights Association updates their reports again and again in urgency, I guess. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 18 July, 2013, 23:09 (UTC)
I have the most reliable and latest source (for now) but before updating, I just wanted to ask. So according to the source that I am going to link in page now, there are only around some specific time period; here is the source, Human Rights Association (Turkey) Number of people being held in custody: 66. Number of people in prison: 119. So I'm updating the data now if there is any grammatical error about judiciary terms, you may fix it. Thanks. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 19 July, 2013, 20:48 (UTC)
I think this could be a very interesting angle. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 09:41, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Doesn't "disinformation" and "lying" mean the same thing? Lying is more direct and clearly explains that section more then "disinformation" does. Doesn't any government "lie" anymore? — SPESH 531 Other 01:34, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
removed section
|
---|
DisinformationsThere have been some disinformations about the protests:
|
The Government Response title needs an update as the decision to stop and cancel the construction plan on Gezi Park is now declined by the higher court after the midnight bag bill passed and gave the constructional permission authorities to Ministry of Culture from TMMOB (UCTEA).
I updated the status part on the infobox as the news arrived but I noticed now that the government response title is last updated about the cancellation of project. So the title needs an update. My updated on the status part can be based as it's too late here and I need some sleep. Thanks and good Wikis to all.. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 00:32 (UTC)
I advice the Timeline section if this is going to happen. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 26 July, 2013, 21:45 (UTC)
And some news of death(s) coming from the protests against government's Syria policies, supporting the terrorist organization El-Nusra, in the border-town of Ceylanpınar. After the situation gets clear, about if the deaths are because of the police attack on the people protesting or because of the bullets coming from the clashes between El-Nusra and Kurdish militias in Syrian town Rasulayn, I am planning to update the article's deaths part and I can add a section for the protests in there if its needed (if the government gets involved in town and situation gets worse). Just noticing this. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 21:51 (UTC)
I'm going to begin (actually I already have) cleaning out this page. I will be gutting entire sections that do not belong on the wiki entirely. I already removed the list of locations where protests are still going on, as we are not a meeting place for protests and it did not seem to include any useful encyclopedic information. Also, information needs one or two references. That's it. It does not need five references, or even three. Just one. Also, these references must be reliable. No source is better than an unreliable one, which means that 90% or more of the facebook, twitter, and youtube reference will be removed and replaced with citation needed templates.
Another note, I'm likely going to be removing large amounts of "Prominent individuals, political parties, and groups" section, possibly even the entire thing. If they have no relation to the actual protests (i.e. they aren't prominent Turkish political parties or groups) then they don't belong in the article, no matter how important they may be to your country or social group.
In summary, this page is in dire need of a prune, and I'm about to do it. Jeancey ( talk) 04:58, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you Jeancey, you did a great job in reducing the size of the article. I wish there would also be a "Jeancey-person" on the German article as it amounts now to over 600 KB and is increasing on a daily basis. -- Alfred Klose ( talk) 11:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
It is this article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteste_in_der_T%C3%BCrkei_2013 and I already told them on the talk page that they should take you as an example how to handle things. -- Alfred Klose ( talk) 19:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I am sure they can! *tumbsup* :-) -- Alfred Klose ( talk) 20:25, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I find it highly problematic when large amount of sourced information is mass removed without adequate discussion. I am going to restore the injuries section for example. I am also going to restore the table for the park forums but will comment it out since it had sourcing issues anyways. We are forced to stuff this article with content as the only break-away was quickly nominated for deletion. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 19:43, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
The details in the injuries section are undue and makes the article unnecessarily long. As a compromise, I suggest we split the entire Casualties section, and make a new article for that.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 22:51, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Can we put up a section talking about Syria and the deceit of the AKP?
This article is a great example: http://rt.com/op-edge/israel-attack-syria-turkey-313/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.122.64.20 ( talk) 17:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
These may be instrumental in covering the content on the police. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 03:24, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
And we can also mention about the Reyhanlı bombings and the accusation of Soldier Utku Kali which is now being judged for 25 years in prison for the allegations of leaking the documents showing the Syrian El-Nusra members (which Erdogan supports) are responsible for Reyhanlı bombings, to RedHack, under the Background title. He is also being allegated about being a member of RedHack while RedHack states they don't have any relations with Utku Kali except the documents. This happened 1 to 2 week before protests blazed and really increased the social tension (amongst 4+4+4 educational system, alcohol ban and Erdogan's speech sarcastically calling the first constitution makers and leaders of Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and İsmet İnönü as drunkards because of letting the usage of alcohol freely.)
I also suggest you to search for 'objective' news and reports about this situation. So, this can really worth a mention.. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 23:59 (UTC)
Finally, I don't find deleting the popular culture materials right, firstly; the song Eyvallah by Duman, Çapulcu Musun by Boğaziçi Jazz Choir and the Sound of Banging on Pots and Pans by Kardeş Türküler, as they were very symbolic for the protests, being played in every square. We can revert them or collect them in an other title but I don't think deletion was right especially the deletion of the 3 materials I've mentioned. Thanks and good night.. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 00:37 (UTC)
For Duman's Eyvallah song that was composed and recorded in one night;
1-Sol,
2-Milliyet,
3-Akşam,
4-Yeşil
For Boğaziçi Jazz Choir's Çapulcu Musun Vay Vay song that was composed and first filmed in Istanbul metro;
1-Posta,
2-T24,
3-Sol,
4-Milliyet
For Kardeş Türküler's Tencere Tava Havası song that was in response for Erdogan's speech about cacerolazo protests;
1-Yurt,
2-Sözcü,
3-Sol,
4-TimeTurk
So this was why I was against the deletion. I didn't add them first so I didn't notice that the only sources were YouTube links. But now, I think these sources are enough for re-adding them again even there are more.
Berkaysnklf (
talk), 25 July, 2013, 17:10 (UTC)
Does the reports of U.N. Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions about the detentions of military leaders and officials and journalists and members of parliament, accused on Sledgehammer Case which is also related with another case named Ergenekon which led to lots of military detentions too, worth a mention here? The report and statements, state that the detentions are arbitrary and against human rights. Calling Turkey to do, what needs to be done about the releasing of the "arbitrary" detentions.
People widely demanded the releasing of the secularist and patriot military leaders and all the others, being prisoned for years in Silivri Prison, during these 2013 protests. This can worth a mention here because of those demands of the people. And also a massive protest is being organized on 5 August in Silivri for the releasings of the accuseds, informing and calling thousands of people around Turkey by different organizations and individuals. This started and spread after the statements of UN. A source which contains the statement of UN and which has other reports about the Sledgehammer Case. .. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 23:53 (UTC)
Yeah the first big demand about the releasation of Ergenekon and Sledgehammer detainees were occured during the Gazdanadam Festival. And also lots of groups, organizations and individuals raised their voice about these during ongoing protests. And after the Gazdanadam and after the UN reports, this call for Silivri is being made widely (firstly on social media). So this is a summary. And yes, we should keep these in mind until August 5. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 26 July, 2013, 21:56 (UTC)
Another full page ad, signed by lots of foreigner notable people including Turkish pianist Fazıl Say (being targeted by lots of Islamists). This also drew reaction of the Turkish AKP government. And Erdogan told that he is going to sue The Times too for this behaviour. The ad A news page before Erdogan's statement about he is going to sue the Times Berkaysnklf ( talk), 27 July, 2013, 22:48 (UTC)
Oh sorry I saw it there and thought I put it in wrong place. Sorry again. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 31 July, 2013, 23:47 (UTC)
I do not exactly like this name. It is not like this was the only protest in 2013 and 2013 is far from over. Calling it "Gezi park" protests may make sense but it is more significant than that now. Perhaps include the month in the name? Something like May-June 2013 protests in Turkey perhaps? -- A Certain White Cat chi? 19:24, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
2013 Gezi Park protests or 2013 Gezi Park-inspired protests? A White Cat is right about the too-generic current title. Podiaebba ( talk) 15:21, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm considering a major rewrite of the introduction. At the moment it is both too long and incomplete, since it only covers events up to June. Ikiayyas ( talk) 10:34, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
This is what I suggest
During 2013, Turkey experienced widespread protests directed at the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. The first major demonstrations started in May 2013, sparked by outrage at the forceful eviction of around 50 environmentalists [6] at Istanbul's Taksim Gezi Park, whose sit-in was in protest at plans to replace the park with a shopping mall and possible residence [7] as well as reconstruction of the historic Taksim Military Barracks over the adjacent Taksim Square. [8] [9] Subsequently, supporting protests and strikes took place across Turkey protesting a wide range of concerns, at the core of which were issues of freedom of the press, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, and the government's encroachment on Turkey's secularism. With no centralised leadership beyond the small organisation organising the original environmental protest, the protests have been compared to the Occupy movement and the May 1968 events.
The sit-in developed into an Occupy-like camp with thousands of protestors in tents, organising a library, medical center, food distribution and their own media. Social media played a key part in the protests, not least because much of the Turkish media downplayed the protests, particularly in the early stages. Riot police cleared the camp and barricaded the park, but protests in the area continued. The park was eventually re-opened to the public on 8 July.
The subjects of the protests then broadened beyond the development of Taksim Gezi Park into wider anti-government demonstrations. [10] [11] The protests spread to other cities in Turkey, including Bursa, Antalya, Eskişehir, İzmir, Edirne, Mersin, Adana, İzmit, Konya, Kayseri, Samsun, Antakya, [12] Trabzon, Isparta, Tekirdağ, Bodrum, [13] and Mardin. [14], and protests were seen in other countries with significant Turkish communities, including European countries, the U.S. and elsewhere. [15] Protests died down during the summer, but were renewed in September, focusing on a similar controversial development plan: an attempt to build a road through a legally-protected forest in Ankara's Middle East Technical University.
The overall number of protesters involved was reported to be at least 2.5 million by the Turkish Interior Ministry over the 3 weeks from the start of the events. [16] The range of the protesters was noted as being broad, encompassing both right- and left-wing individuals. [13] The protesters' complaints ranged from the original local environmental concerns to such issues as the authoritarianism of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, [17] [18] [19] curbs on alcohol, [20] a recent contorversy about kissing in public, [13] and the war in Syria. [13]
According to various news outlets, the clashes are the most challenging events for Erdoğan's ten-year term and the most significant nationwide disquiet in decades. [21] [22]
Deleted parts would be summarised and moved to the Timeline. Ikiayyas ( talk) 13:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
"The neutrality of this article has been questioned" but I can find no entry under "Articles needing POV-check" for any months since the creation of the article. Is there any way we can resolve this? If the person who originally flagged the article doesn't speak up before long, and there are no other POV-based objections, then I suggest we remove the flag. In the mean-time, could any editors please check for possible NPOV-violating language? Ikiayyas ( talk) 10:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
I suggest moving some items from the status box to the timeline. Ikiayyas ( talk) 11:35, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Protests against this construction didn't continue a lot. So I really advice summarizing this (even though I was the one who created it during protests) in like one to two sentences; and.. Creating a specific title for the resistance that was blazed after Middle Eastern Technical University Forest protests (The September Protests). Cause its effect is like the new-Gezi and needs to be titled much more than the telfer construction. We can summarize the telfer under that title too. And there are lots of articles in English, so you can start and I can continue as the news arrive. Thanks. Berkaysnklf ( talk) 22:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
I really can't solve this because of their various differences in Turkish language. For example; a man who stays his whole life in prison and who is accused of murder is an arrested man, right ? And a detention is when you stay under police control for a limited time.. Right ? If so, I really need to change and re-organize those parts. Thanks. Berkaysnklf ( talk) 10 September, 2013, 00:33 (UTC)
WAIT ! Under the "Social Media" sub-title I saw 15 people in Izmir and 13 people in Adana were detained.. They were all received a "gözaltı". So doesn't it has to be "arrest" ? Oh, my mind.. Berkaysnklf ( talk) 23:15, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
OK, I've made a mistake! Yes, detention is normally short-term and arrest is long-term but where I was wrong is that they are not really the counterparts of the Turkish terms gözaltı and tutuklanma. Why? Because, after more and more reading about the subject, I've realised that the processes are quite different in Turkey and in the Western World in general. See some explanation of "detention" from this website, comparing detention and arrest:
In a detention, the police only need reasonable suspicion to stop an individual, and a reasonable person would feel as though they could leave in a short amount of time. This timeframe can vary a bit based on the circumstances, but the U.S. Supreme Court has held that 20 minutes or so is a reasonable timeframe for detaining someone. |
And see about arrest:
To arrest an individual, law enforcement officers need probable cause. An arrest is characterized by the idea that a reasonable person would not feel free to leave due to the actions of the law enforcement officers. This usually means that the officers take the individual into custody. Custody can mean a number of things. An individual may be taken into custody by driving them back to the police station. |
OK, so my conclusion is such:
Finally, in the Gezi Park events, people who were taken into custody (gözaltı), were not released within 24 hours but were taken into courts and most of them were released by court order (correct me if I'm wrong here). A smaller number of them however were given the decision of tutuklama, which in this context could be translated as "they were detained for ongoing judicial processes". So, even though in Turkey gözaltı and tutuklama are important concepts, I believe that, as this template asks for detained and arrested only, we should not include the tutuklu people (those whose court processes are ongoing and they are not released for pending processes), but explain it in a simple and short language inside the article. Therefore, I think that Arrested:4900 would be enough for the template. -- Universal Life ( talk) 09:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Turkish Spring redirects here, but nowhere does the article even mention that term, even though several refs do. Quite awkward. How about including a line such as "The protests have occasionally been labelled [or hailed as possibly prefiguring a] Turkish Spring in analogy to the Arab Spring, but [some reason why the analogy is not apt or the term not more widespread, or objections by named people]"? -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 23:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I think that this edit is questionnable. Here is an English version of the news. They state that Hasan Ferit Gedik was killed in Istanbul’s Gülsuyu neighborhood on early morning. Nothing suggests that this death is related to the protests. Or we'll add every death in Turkey that is in the news to the fatalites in this article? -- 37.17.113.123 ( talk) 05:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Gezi Park protest is over why wikipedia says it is resuming? Fariztevfik ( talk) 18:20, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Because protests are not over in other issues ?????? User:KazekageTR —Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
What are other issues? The last entry in protest timeline is in august Timeline_of_the_2013_protests_in_Turkey in English Wiki and 10 september https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Taksim_Gezi_Park%C4%B1_protestolar%C4%B1_zaman_%C3%A7izelgesi in Turkish Wiki. So if protests is resuming why there is nothing in timeline? I live in Turkey and there is nothing about Gezi Park for weeks. Fariztevfik ( talk) 16:24, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
http://www.bianet.org/english/youth/150753-11-detained-at-metu-solidarity-protest-in-istanbul
Though the recent protest and police crackdown are specifically in Ankara, these protests are still in 2013 and in Turkey. Events in Taksim Gezi Parki are but a minor expression of the world-wide protest against the imposition of "moderate sharia law" against the secularists.
I appreciate everyone's contribution to keeping this easy-to-use journal of what is happening in the 2013 protests in Turkey. Thanks to all! Rednblu ( talk) 14:46, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
The information under the heading "Demands" doesn't appear to match the information it cites. There are quotes in the article that aren't cited, and don't appear to correlate with the information that IS cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.66.212 ( talk) 19:59, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
As some of you may have noticed, me and The Madras have been involved in a recent edit war. We have a disagreement about how the government side at the Parties to the civil conflict section of infobox should look like.
I think that 61st Government of Turkey should be displayed, whereas The Madras thinks only Turkey should be displayed. I think that 61st Government of Turkey is the correct approach, since protesters were not against Turkey, they were against this specific 61. government. And since we are making a historical acount here, when people click on 61st Government of Turkey, they will get information about this current government. But when they will click on Turkey, they will only find general info about Turkey, which is not really helpful. Also Turkish Vikipedi article about those protests uses 61st Government of Turkey as the conflicting side.
Second discussion is about the use of Turkish flag. The Madras thinks that Turkish flag should be displayed on government side, I think not. First of all, the protesters does not have a single flag to be displayed on their side. Second, Turkish flags were widely used by the protestors as well. The Madras thinks that flag should be definitely displayed. Also flag is not displayed at Turkish Vikipedi article.
I am flexible about the flag issue, but I definitely think that 61st Government of Turkey should be displayed. I also told this to he Madras, but keeps on changing the article according to his own view, and not even giving a reason while editing. He seems to have a history of edit warring, and even got a warning for his attitude.
Please share your thought about this matter since The Madras and I can not come to agreement about this issue. Thanks. Gezginrocker ( talk) 20:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: no-break space character in |title=
at position 59 (
help)CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
GMT31May
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).JethroMullen
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).AlJ1
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).across
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).guardian
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Gaziantep
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
Hacaolgu
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
There is repeated mention in the article of the use of "tear gas". This is a general non-specific term but the specific chemical fired by the police was "CS gas". Since not all "tear gas" is "CS gas", and "CS gas" is the more specific and the accurate term to use in this case, I suggest we change "tear gas" to "cs gas". Here is a source that notes that what was used was CS gas: http://www.todayszaman.com/columnistDetail_getNewsById.action?newsId=318254 - there are other similar ones, plus of course the numerous photos of the spent canisters, all marked "CS Gas". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.143.19 ( talk) 15:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Here is something really interesting. Turkish media didn't show this so I learned this one now. It can be related with the protests and democratic acts in Turkey, as the weapons were probably destinated for Mursi supporters, or Free Syrian Army (which the Turkish protesters are also protesting against). Should we mention about this in the article ? Berkaysnklf ( talk), 18 July, 2013, 22:49 (UTC)
And by the way, the detainments need a real update as the number passed 100 already and increasing. I can't find a source talking about the total numbers but lots of partial sources talking about partial numbers. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 18 July, 2013, 22:52 (UTC)
Wait, there is a certain misunderstanding here. What do we use arrest part and what do we use detaintment part for ? For example, there are 119 people sent into "a prison" and at least 4,900 to 5,000 people "taken in custody" and at least 66 people still being "held in custody". We need to organize these parts urgently as the Human Rights Watch and Turkey Human Rights Association updates their reports again and again in urgency, I guess. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 18 July, 2013, 23:09 (UTC)
I have the most reliable and latest source (for now) but before updating, I just wanted to ask. So according to the source that I am going to link in page now, there are only around some specific time period; here is the source, Human Rights Association (Turkey) Number of people being held in custody: 66. Number of people in prison: 119. So I'm updating the data now if there is any grammatical error about judiciary terms, you may fix it. Thanks. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 19 July, 2013, 20:48 (UTC)
I think this could be a very interesting angle. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 09:41, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Doesn't "disinformation" and "lying" mean the same thing? Lying is more direct and clearly explains that section more then "disinformation" does. Doesn't any government "lie" anymore? — SPESH 531 Other 01:34, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
removed section
|
---|
DisinformationsThere have been some disinformations about the protests:
|
The Government Response title needs an update as the decision to stop and cancel the construction plan on Gezi Park is now declined by the higher court after the midnight bag bill passed and gave the constructional permission authorities to Ministry of Culture from TMMOB (UCTEA).
I updated the status part on the infobox as the news arrived but I noticed now that the government response title is last updated about the cancellation of project. So the title needs an update. My updated on the status part can be based as it's too late here and I need some sleep. Thanks and good Wikis to all.. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 00:32 (UTC)
I advice the Timeline section if this is going to happen. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 26 July, 2013, 21:45 (UTC)
And some news of death(s) coming from the protests against government's Syria policies, supporting the terrorist organization El-Nusra, in the border-town of Ceylanpınar. After the situation gets clear, about if the deaths are because of the police attack on the people protesting or because of the bullets coming from the clashes between El-Nusra and Kurdish militias in Syrian town Rasulayn, I am planning to update the article's deaths part and I can add a section for the protests in there if its needed (if the government gets involved in town and situation gets worse). Just noticing this. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 21:51 (UTC)
I'm going to begin (actually I already have) cleaning out this page. I will be gutting entire sections that do not belong on the wiki entirely. I already removed the list of locations where protests are still going on, as we are not a meeting place for protests and it did not seem to include any useful encyclopedic information. Also, information needs one or two references. That's it. It does not need five references, or even three. Just one. Also, these references must be reliable. No source is better than an unreliable one, which means that 90% or more of the facebook, twitter, and youtube reference will be removed and replaced with citation needed templates.
Another note, I'm likely going to be removing large amounts of "Prominent individuals, political parties, and groups" section, possibly even the entire thing. If they have no relation to the actual protests (i.e. they aren't prominent Turkish political parties or groups) then they don't belong in the article, no matter how important they may be to your country or social group.
In summary, this page is in dire need of a prune, and I'm about to do it. Jeancey ( talk) 04:58, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you Jeancey, you did a great job in reducing the size of the article. I wish there would also be a "Jeancey-person" on the German article as it amounts now to over 600 KB and is increasing on a daily basis. -- Alfred Klose ( talk) 11:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
It is this article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteste_in_der_T%C3%BCrkei_2013 and I already told them on the talk page that they should take you as an example how to handle things. -- Alfred Klose ( talk) 19:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I am sure they can! *tumbsup* :-) -- Alfred Klose ( talk) 20:25, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I find it highly problematic when large amount of sourced information is mass removed without adequate discussion. I am going to restore the injuries section for example. I am also going to restore the table for the park forums but will comment it out since it had sourcing issues anyways. We are forced to stuff this article with content as the only break-away was quickly nominated for deletion. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 19:43, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
The details in the injuries section are undue and makes the article unnecessarily long. As a compromise, I suggest we split the entire Casualties section, and make a new article for that.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 22:51, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Can we put up a section talking about Syria and the deceit of the AKP?
This article is a great example: http://rt.com/op-edge/israel-attack-syria-turkey-313/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.122.64.20 ( talk) 17:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
These may be instrumental in covering the content on the police. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 03:24, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
And we can also mention about the Reyhanlı bombings and the accusation of Soldier Utku Kali which is now being judged for 25 years in prison for the allegations of leaking the documents showing the Syrian El-Nusra members (which Erdogan supports) are responsible for Reyhanlı bombings, to RedHack, under the Background title. He is also being allegated about being a member of RedHack while RedHack states they don't have any relations with Utku Kali except the documents. This happened 1 to 2 week before protests blazed and really increased the social tension (amongst 4+4+4 educational system, alcohol ban and Erdogan's speech sarcastically calling the first constitution makers and leaders of Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and İsmet İnönü as drunkards because of letting the usage of alcohol freely.)
I also suggest you to search for 'objective' news and reports about this situation. So, this can really worth a mention.. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 23:59 (UTC)
Finally, I don't find deleting the popular culture materials right, firstly; the song Eyvallah by Duman, Çapulcu Musun by Boğaziçi Jazz Choir and the Sound of Banging on Pots and Pans by Kardeş Türküler, as they were very symbolic for the protests, being played in every square. We can revert them or collect them in an other title but I don't think deletion was right especially the deletion of the 3 materials I've mentioned. Thanks and good night.. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 00:37 (UTC)
For Duman's Eyvallah song that was composed and recorded in one night;
1-Sol,
2-Milliyet,
3-Akşam,
4-Yeşil
For Boğaziçi Jazz Choir's Çapulcu Musun Vay Vay song that was composed and first filmed in Istanbul metro;
1-Posta,
2-T24,
3-Sol,
4-Milliyet
For Kardeş Türküler's Tencere Tava Havası song that was in response for Erdogan's speech about cacerolazo protests;
1-Yurt,
2-Sözcü,
3-Sol,
4-TimeTurk
So this was why I was against the deletion. I didn't add them first so I didn't notice that the only sources were YouTube links. But now, I think these sources are enough for re-adding them again even there are more.
Berkaysnklf (
talk), 25 July, 2013, 17:10 (UTC)
Does the reports of U.N. Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions about the detentions of military leaders and officials and journalists and members of parliament, accused on Sledgehammer Case which is also related with another case named Ergenekon which led to lots of military detentions too, worth a mention here? The report and statements, state that the detentions are arbitrary and against human rights. Calling Turkey to do, what needs to be done about the releasing of the "arbitrary" detentions.
People widely demanded the releasing of the secularist and patriot military leaders and all the others, being prisoned for years in Silivri Prison, during these 2013 protests. This can worth a mention here because of those demands of the people. And also a massive protest is being organized on 5 August in Silivri for the releasings of the accuseds, informing and calling thousands of people around Turkey by different organizations and individuals. This started and spread after the statements of UN. A source which contains the statement of UN and which has other reports about the Sledgehammer Case. .. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 24 July, 2013, 23:53 (UTC)
Yeah the first big demand about the releasation of Ergenekon and Sledgehammer detainees were occured during the Gazdanadam Festival. And also lots of groups, organizations and individuals raised their voice about these during ongoing protests. And after the Gazdanadam and after the UN reports, this call for Silivri is being made widely (firstly on social media). So this is a summary. And yes, we should keep these in mind until August 5. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 26 July, 2013, 21:56 (UTC)
Another full page ad, signed by lots of foreigner notable people including Turkish pianist Fazıl Say (being targeted by lots of Islamists). This also drew reaction of the Turkish AKP government. And Erdogan told that he is going to sue The Times too for this behaviour. The ad A news page before Erdogan's statement about he is going to sue the Times Berkaysnklf ( talk), 27 July, 2013, 22:48 (UTC)
Oh sorry I saw it there and thought I put it in wrong place. Sorry again. Berkaysnklf ( talk), 31 July, 2013, 23:47 (UTC)
I do not exactly like this name. It is not like this was the only protest in 2013 and 2013 is far from over. Calling it "Gezi park" protests may make sense but it is more significant than that now. Perhaps include the month in the name? Something like May-June 2013 protests in Turkey perhaps? -- A Certain White Cat chi? 19:24, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
2013 Gezi Park protests or 2013 Gezi Park-inspired protests? A White Cat is right about the too-generic current title. Podiaebba ( talk) 15:21, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm considering a major rewrite of the introduction. At the moment it is both too long and incomplete, since it only covers events up to June. Ikiayyas ( talk) 10:34, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
This is what I suggest
During 2013, Turkey experienced widespread protests directed at the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. The first major demonstrations started in May 2013, sparked by outrage at the forceful eviction of around 50 environmentalists [6] at Istanbul's Taksim Gezi Park, whose sit-in was in protest at plans to replace the park with a shopping mall and possible residence [7] as well as reconstruction of the historic Taksim Military Barracks over the adjacent Taksim Square. [8] [9] Subsequently, supporting protests and strikes took place across Turkey protesting a wide range of concerns, at the core of which were issues of freedom of the press, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, and the government's encroachment on Turkey's secularism. With no centralised leadership beyond the small organisation organising the original environmental protest, the protests have been compared to the Occupy movement and the May 1968 events.
The sit-in developed into an Occupy-like camp with thousands of protestors in tents, organising a library, medical center, food distribution and their own media. Social media played a key part in the protests, not least because much of the Turkish media downplayed the protests, particularly in the early stages. Riot police cleared the camp and barricaded the park, but protests in the area continued. The park was eventually re-opened to the public on 8 July.
The subjects of the protests then broadened beyond the development of Taksim Gezi Park into wider anti-government demonstrations. [10] [11] The protests spread to other cities in Turkey, including Bursa, Antalya, Eskişehir, İzmir, Edirne, Mersin, Adana, İzmit, Konya, Kayseri, Samsun, Antakya, [12] Trabzon, Isparta, Tekirdağ, Bodrum, [13] and Mardin. [14], and protests were seen in other countries with significant Turkish communities, including European countries, the U.S. and elsewhere. [15] Protests died down during the summer, but were renewed in September, focusing on a similar controversial development plan: an attempt to build a road through a legally-protected forest in Ankara's Middle East Technical University.
The overall number of protesters involved was reported to be at least 2.5 million by the Turkish Interior Ministry over the 3 weeks from the start of the events. [16] The range of the protesters was noted as being broad, encompassing both right- and left-wing individuals. [13] The protesters' complaints ranged from the original local environmental concerns to such issues as the authoritarianism of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, [17] [18] [19] curbs on alcohol, [20] a recent contorversy about kissing in public, [13] and the war in Syria. [13]
According to various news outlets, the clashes are the most challenging events for Erdoğan's ten-year term and the most significant nationwide disquiet in decades. [21] [22]
Deleted parts would be summarised and moved to the Timeline. Ikiayyas ( talk) 13:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
"The neutrality of this article has been questioned" but I can find no entry under "Articles needing POV-check" for any months since the creation of the article. Is there any way we can resolve this? If the person who originally flagged the article doesn't speak up before long, and there are no other POV-based objections, then I suggest we remove the flag. In the mean-time, could any editors please check for possible NPOV-violating language? Ikiayyas ( talk) 10:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
I suggest moving some items from the status box to the timeline. Ikiayyas ( talk) 11:35, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Protests against this construction didn't continue a lot. So I really advice summarizing this (even though I was the one who created it during protests) in like one to two sentences; and.. Creating a specific title for the resistance that was blazed after Middle Eastern Technical University Forest protests (The September Protests). Cause its effect is like the new-Gezi and needs to be titled much more than the telfer construction. We can summarize the telfer under that title too. And there are lots of articles in English, so you can start and I can continue as the news arrive. Thanks. Berkaysnklf ( talk) 22:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
I really can't solve this because of their various differences in Turkish language. For example; a man who stays his whole life in prison and who is accused of murder is an arrested man, right ? And a detention is when you stay under police control for a limited time.. Right ? If so, I really need to change and re-organize those parts. Thanks. Berkaysnklf ( talk) 10 September, 2013, 00:33 (UTC)
WAIT ! Under the "Social Media" sub-title I saw 15 people in Izmir and 13 people in Adana were detained.. They were all received a "gözaltı". So doesn't it has to be "arrest" ? Oh, my mind.. Berkaysnklf ( talk) 23:15, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
OK, I've made a mistake! Yes, detention is normally short-term and arrest is long-term but where I was wrong is that they are not really the counterparts of the Turkish terms gözaltı and tutuklanma. Why? Because, after more and more reading about the subject, I've realised that the processes are quite different in Turkey and in the Western World in general. See some explanation of "detention" from this website, comparing detention and arrest:
In a detention, the police only need reasonable suspicion to stop an individual, and a reasonable person would feel as though they could leave in a short amount of time. This timeframe can vary a bit based on the circumstances, but the U.S. Supreme Court has held that 20 minutes or so is a reasonable timeframe for detaining someone. |
And see about arrest:
To arrest an individual, law enforcement officers need probable cause. An arrest is characterized by the idea that a reasonable person would not feel free to leave due to the actions of the law enforcement officers. This usually means that the officers take the individual into custody. Custody can mean a number of things. An individual may be taken into custody by driving them back to the police station. |
OK, so my conclusion is such:
Finally, in the Gezi Park events, people who were taken into custody (gözaltı), were not released within 24 hours but were taken into courts and most of them were released by court order (correct me if I'm wrong here). A smaller number of them however were given the decision of tutuklama, which in this context could be translated as "they were detained for ongoing judicial processes". So, even though in Turkey gözaltı and tutuklama are important concepts, I believe that, as this template asks for detained and arrested only, we should not include the tutuklu people (those whose court processes are ongoing and they are not released for pending processes), but explain it in a simple and short language inside the article. Therefore, I think that Arrested:4900 would be enough for the template. -- Universal Life ( talk) 09:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Turkish Spring redirects here, but nowhere does the article even mention that term, even though several refs do. Quite awkward. How about including a line such as "The protests have occasionally been labelled [or hailed as possibly prefiguring a] Turkish Spring in analogy to the Arab Spring, but [some reason why the analogy is not apt or the term not more widespread, or objections by named people]"? -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 23:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I think that this edit is questionnable. Here is an English version of the news. They state that Hasan Ferit Gedik was killed in Istanbul’s Gülsuyu neighborhood on early morning. Nothing suggests that this death is related to the protests. Or we'll add every death in Turkey that is in the news to the fatalites in this article? -- 37.17.113.123 ( talk) 05:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Gezi Park protest is over why wikipedia says it is resuming? Fariztevfik ( talk) 18:20, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Because protests are not over in other issues ?????? User:KazekageTR —Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
What are other issues? The last entry in protest timeline is in august Timeline_of_the_2013_protests_in_Turkey in English Wiki and 10 september https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Taksim_Gezi_Park%C4%B1_protestolar%C4%B1_zaman_%C3%A7izelgesi in Turkish Wiki. So if protests is resuming why there is nothing in timeline? I live in Turkey and there is nothing about Gezi Park for weeks. Fariztevfik ( talk) 16:24, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
http://www.bianet.org/english/youth/150753-11-detained-at-metu-solidarity-protest-in-istanbul
Though the recent protest and police crackdown are specifically in Ankara, these protests are still in 2013 and in Turkey. Events in Taksim Gezi Parki are but a minor expression of the world-wide protest against the imposition of "moderate sharia law" against the secularists.
I appreciate everyone's contribution to keeping this easy-to-use journal of what is happening in the 2013 protests in Turkey. Thanks to all! Rednblu ( talk) 14:46, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
The information under the heading "Demands" doesn't appear to match the information it cites. There are quotes in the article that aren't cited, and don't appear to correlate with the information that IS cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.66.212 ( talk) 19:59, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
As some of you may have noticed, me and The Madras have been involved in a recent edit war. We have a disagreement about how the government side at the Parties to the civil conflict section of infobox should look like.
I think that 61st Government of Turkey should be displayed, whereas The Madras thinks only Turkey should be displayed. I think that 61st Government of Turkey is the correct approach, since protesters were not against Turkey, they were against this specific 61. government. And since we are making a historical acount here, when people click on 61st Government of Turkey, they will get information about this current government. But when they will click on Turkey, they will only find general info about Turkey, which is not really helpful. Also Turkish Vikipedi article about those protests uses 61st Government of Turkey as the conflicting side.
Second discussion is about the use of Turkish flag. The Madras thinks that Turkish flag should be displayed on government side, I think not. First of all, the protesters does not have a single flag to be displayed on their side. Second, Turkish flags were widely used by the protestors as well. The Madras thinks that flag should be definitely displayed. Also flag is not displayed at Turkish Vikipedi article.
I am flexible about the flag issue, but I definitely think that 61st Government of Turkey should be displayed. I also told this to he Madras, but keeps on changing the article according to his own view, and not even giving a reason while editing. He seems to have a history of edit warring, and even got a warning for his attitude.
Please share your thought about this matter since The Madras and I can not come to agreement about this issue. Thanks. Gezginrocker ( talk) 20:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: no-break space character in |title=
at position 59 (
help)CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
GMT31May
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).JethroMullen
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).AlJ1
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).across
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).guardian
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Gaziantep
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
Hacaolgu
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).