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The article says the Kormoran mounted 37 mm anti-tank guns. A naval ship would have no use for an anti-tank weapon, and both the Hipper class cruisers and the Scharnhorst class Battlecruisers mounted 37 mm anti-aircraft guns. This seems to be an erroneous statement. 72.149.161.130 ( talk) 16:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Added a link to the 16/3/8 news.com.au article on the discovery of the wreck —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blacklord ( talk • contribs) 01:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The sonar images from the Finding Sydney Foundation "press room" CAN be used reproduced under the terms of the Foundation's legal information. Images of the Kormoran are here. 203.7.140.3 ( talk) 03:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
“ | The Finding Sydney Foundation or other noted copyright must remain on all reproductions of Materials from this Web Site.
You may download, store and use the Materials for your own personal use and research or that of your firm or company. You may not republish, retransmit, redistribute or otherwise make the Materials available to any other party or make them available on any website, on-line service or bulletin board of your own or of any other party or make them available in hard copy or on any other media without HMAS Sydney Search Pty Ltd CAN.096 017 275 and The Finding Sydney Foundation’s express prior written consent. |
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Socrates2008 ( Talk) 03:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
“ | The Material (including photographs) available in the "Press Room" section of this Website may be used/reproduced by your organisation (unless stated otherwise within the content description) subject to the terms and conditions set out in this Legal Section AND any Material (including photographs) which you use/reproduce must credit the source as "The Finding Sydney Foundation" and, as an option, you may also link the source statement with the website address http://www.findingsydney.com/. | ” |
203.7.140.3 ( talk) 04:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
This page gives the definition of HSK as Handelsstörkreuzer, or "commerce disruption cruiser", but Detmers himself states (on page 12 of the Kimber edition of The Raider Kormoran) that it stands for Handelsschutzkreuzer, "merchant navy protection cruiser".
Do we have a source for the currently provided definition?
Jb17kx (
talk)
02:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
^^I put the disruption bit in. All German Kriegsmarine sites (after a quick google check) give the Handelsstörkreuzer meaning to the HSK acronym. It seems that this is a wartime term, whereas pre-war the KM thought they´d need cheap protection for the German merchant navy (like the Brits did). The German wikipedia lists all KM commerce raiders as Handelsstörkreuzer, click though this list : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Schiffe_der_Kriegsmarine#Hilfskreuzer Sorry, no better sources but I thought it´d suffice - greetings, CH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.153.71.209 ( talk) 21:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
The caption under the image Kormoran lifeboat, Carnavon states that the plaque says, incorrectly, that 52 Germans survived in that lifeboat. Can it be verified that this is indeed incorrect?
SaintJimmy505 ( talk) 19:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Finding Sydney Foundation has released photos of the Kormoran wreckage. [1] These photos can be uploaded to Wikipedia (not Wikicommons) if a reasonable case for fair use is made and subject to the terms on the Finding Sydney Foundation press page. See for example Image:HMAS Sydney wreck, 64.jpg. 203.7.140.3 ( talk) 06:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Given as Reference 9 the probable scene of engagement turned out to be rocks so this needs to be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.194.44.18 ( talk) 16:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Article reassessed and graded as start class. -- dashiellx ( talk) 11:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be a little confusion here, according to recent edits.
When Kormoran was in German waters she was disguised as a
Sperrbrecher, to conceal her true purpose; once she had left there, to get through the British blockade, she changed her disguise to be the Soviet freighter V. Molotov (the Soviet Union being neutral at the time, and habitually secretive). Once through she changed again (I can't remember to what). It was all described by Detmers in his book. We didn't have an article on pathfinder ships before, but now we do.
Xyl 54 (
talk)
17:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Given the build of the ship, which looks as freighter like as I've ever seen, can someone please give me the reference for stating that the Steiermark was build as a passenger vessel for the HAPAG? Thanks. -- 134.171.184.245 ( talk) 04:56, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
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Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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Despite the quote (thx, btw), I'm more confused than ever. If Sydney is on her port bow, why is Kormoran turning to port--toward? (That does seem to make it 260 relative...) What am I missing? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 20:24, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
As Kormoran makes her "oh crap" turn, the relative position of Sydney starts just left of the bow, crosses, and ends up behind and to the right. -- saberwyn 00:32, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Detmers warned that if the piano caused any problems among the crew, it would be pushed overboard.
— It's difficult to envision just how the presence of a piano could cause "problems among the crew." Can this rather amusing sidelight be clarified? Sca ( talk) 15:24, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
We have two explanations for this abbreviation. Handelsstörkreuzer (trade disruption cruiser) and Handelsschutzkreuzer (trade protection cruiser.) Australian defence sites are about equally divided. Does anyone know anything definitive? Rumiton ( talk) 13:04, 26 January 2016 (UTC) I have asked on the German Wikipedia "Hilfskreuzer" page. Stand by. Rumiton ( talk) 14:21, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
This article, and other related articles, say the German Navy operated ten merchant cruisers.
I used to own a book that devoted a chapter to the cruises of all her WW2 merchant cruisers. I understand the confusion, as the first wave of cruisers included ten vessels. A second wave was sent out, also of ten vessels.
Only one vessel participated in both the first and second wave. So, there were a total of 19 vessels. Geo Swan ( talk) 00:43, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
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How could this be true: "Korvettenkapitän (Lieutenant Commander) Theodor Detmers was selected to command Schiff 41 in July 1940; the 37-year-old was the youngest man to command a German merchant raider.[4][7]"
When Felix von Luckner was 35 years old when he took command of the SMS Seeadler (1888)? /info/en/?search=Felix_von_Luckner
Either von Luckner's date of birth is wrong, or that fact is wrong. I mean, an incorrect statement is still incorrect even if quoted, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.227.11 ( talk) 23:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
This is the
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The article says the Kormoran mounted 37 mm anti-tank guns. A naval ship would have no use for an anti-tank weapon, and both the Hipper class cruisers and the Scharnhorst class Battlecruisers mounted 37 mm anti-aircraft guns. This seems to be an erroneous statement. 72.149.161.130 ( talk) 16:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Added a link to the 16/3/8 news.com.au article on the discovery of the wreck —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blacklord ( talk • contribs) 01:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The sonar images from the Finding Sydney Foundation "press room" CAN be used reproduced under the terms of the Foundation's legal information. Images of the Kormoran are here. 203.7.140.3 ( talk) 03:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
“ | The Finding Sydney Foundation or other noted copyright must remain on all reproductions of Materials from this Web Site.
You may download, store and use the Materials for your own personal use and research or that of your firm or company. You may not republish, retransmit, redistribute or otherwise make the Materials available to any other party or make them available on any website, on-line service or bulletin board of your own or of any other party or make them available in hard copy or on any other media without HMAS Sydney Search Pty Ltd CAN.096 017 275 and The Finding Sydney Foundation’s express prior written consent. |
” |
Socrates2008 ( Talk) 03:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
“ | The Material (including photographs) available in the "Press Room" section of this Website may be used/reproduced by your organisation (unless stated otherwise within the content description) subject to the terms and conditions set out in this Legal Section AND any Material (including photographs) which you use/reproduce must credit the source as "The Finding Sydney Foundation" and, as an option, you may also link the source statement with the website address http://www.findingsydney.com/. | ” |
203.7.140.3 ( talk) 04:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
This page gives the definition of HSK as Handelsstörkreuzer, or "commerce disruption cruiser", but Detmers himself states (on page 12 of the Kimber edition of The Raider Kormoran) that it stands for Handelsschutzkreuzer, "merchant navy protection cruiser".
Do we have a source for the currently provided definition?
Jb17kx (
talk)
02:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
^^I put the disruption bit in. All German Kriegsmarine sites (after a quick google check) give the Handelsstörkreuzer meaning to the HSK acronym. It seems that this is a wartime term, whereas pre-war the KM thought they´d need cheap protection for the German merchant navy (like the Brits did). The German wikipedia lists all KM commerce raiders as Handelsstörkreuzer, click though this list : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Schiffe_der_Kriegsmarine#Hilfskreuzer Sorry, no better sources but I thought it´d suffice - greetings, CH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.153.71.209 ( talk) 21:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
The caption under the image Kormoran lifeboat, Carnavon states that the plaque says, incorrectly, that 52 Germans survived in that lifeboat. Can it be verified that this is indeed incorrect?
SaintJimmy505 ( talk) 19:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Finding Sydney Foundation has released photos of the Kormoran wreckage. [1] These photos can be uploaded to Wikipedia (not Wikicommons) if a reasonable case for fair use is made and subject to the terms on the Finding Sydney Foundation press page. See for example Image:HMAS Sydney wreck, 64.jpg. 203.7.140.3 ( talk) 06:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Given as Reference 9 the probable scene of engagement turned out to be rocks so this needs to be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.194.44.18 ( talk) 16:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Article reassessed and graded as start class. -- dashiellx ( talk) 11:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be a little confusion here, according to recent edits.
When Kormoran was in German waters she was disguised as a
Sperrbrecher, to conceal her true purpose; once she had left there, to get through the British blockade, she changed her disguise to be the Soviet freighter V. Molotov (the Soviet Union being neutral at the time, and habitually secretive). Once through she changed again (I can't remember to what). It was all described by Detmers in his book. We didn't have an article on pathfinder ships before, but now we do.
Xyl 54 (
talk)
17:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Given the build of the ship, which looks as freighter like as I've ever seen, can someone please give me the reference for stating that the Steiermark was build as a passenger vessel for the HAPAG? Thanks. -- 134.171.184.245 ( talk) 04:56, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:HMAS Sydney (AWM 301473) cropped.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 09:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC) |
Despite the quote (thx, btw), I'm more confused than ever. If Sydney is on her port bow, why is Kormoran turning to port--toward? (That does seem to make it 260 relative...) What am I missing? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 20:24, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
As Kormoran makes her "oh crap" turn, the relative position of Sydney starts just left of the bow, crosses, and ends up behind and to the right. -- saberwyn 00:32, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Detmers warned that if the piano caused any problems among the crew, it would be pushed overboard.
— It's difficult to envision just how the presence of a piano could cause "problems among the crew." Can this rather amusing sidelight be clarified? Sca ( talk) 15:24, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
We have two explanations for this abbreviation. Handelsstörkreuzer (trade disruption cruiser) and Handelsschutzkreuzer (trade protection cruiser.) Australian defence sites are about equally divided. Does anyone know anything definitive? Rumiton ( talk) 13:04, 26 January 2016 (UTC) I have asked on the German Wikipedia "Hilfskreuzer" page. Stand by. Rumiton ( talk) 14:21, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
This article, and other related articles, say the German Navy operated ten merchant cruisers.
I used to own a book that devoted a chapter to the cruises of all her WW2 merchant cruisers. I understand the confusion, as the first wave of cruisers included ten vessels. A second wave was sent out, also of ten vessels.
Only one vessel participated in both the first and second wave. So, there were a total of 19 vessels. Geo Swan ( talk) 00:43, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
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How could this be true: "Korvettenkapitän (Lieutenant Commander) Theodor Detmers was selected to command Schiff 41 in July 1940; the 37-year-old was the youngest man to command a German merchant raider.[4][7]"
When Felix von Luckner was 35 years old when he took command of the SMS Seeadler (1888)? /info/en/?search=Felix_von_Luckner
Either von Luckner's date of birth is wrong, or that fact is wrong. I mean, an incorrect statement is still incorrect even if quoted, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.227.11 ( talk) 23:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)