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Is German Autumn really a used term in Britain or the states for the Deutsche Herbst? Or is it a translation from a german? -- mirer 19:49, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Regarding the extra-judical killings... why not point to a couple of links to sources or other debate? It's an important part of left-wing mythology and I'd like to read more about it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.67.108.142 ( talk) 19:07, 4 June 2005 (UTC)
Why is the PFLP called a 'terrorist group'? They are freedom fighters.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.27.158 ( talk) 16:19, 6 July 2005 (UTC)
In the article Schleyer is introduced as "former SS officer and NSDAP member" and "industrialist". Schleyer was a board member at Daimler-Benz and president of the powerful federation of employers' associations. The description in this article reduces his importance largely to his past (he joined the SS whan he was 18) and thus suggests strongly and right from the start that he somehow deserved what he got and that his murderers had, after all, a point. To discuss the fact that Schleyer was a controversial figure for more than one reason in a separate paragraph further down the page would do the truth a better service.
I recommend, for those who can read it, the German entry.
Verity Truth 21:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I just changed the page without looking up the discussion page first; I think Schleyer was a target becaus of his position. After all, the RAF didn't abduct any old ex-Nazi officer they could lay their hands on. -- chlange001 ( talk) 10:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I suspect the events are nit significant enough for the english speaking world to warrant a proper word other than the translation
Why use anything BUT the translation when the term is so clearly defined? Did we Germans invent anything fancy for -- say -- the Wars of the Roses instead of calling it just Rosenkriege? No, we didn't. Would there be a necessity to call it anything else? Geranienkriege or what? So why the discontent with German Autumn?
And anybody who finds the events of the German Autumn "not significant", now, exactly 30 years later and in the chilling light of global Islamist terror, needs his head examined some private lessons in history.
Verity Truth 21:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Image:Hanns Martin Schleyer in captivity.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 23:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
we all know that the deaths of the raf members were questionable but they were not officially murdered the article should reflect this instead of outright claiming they were murderd in there cells 78.148.169.55 ( talk) 21:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Someone recently changed "suicides in prison" to "killed in prison" with the description Fixed inaccurate information. It needs to be noted that virtually nobody still believes that to be the case by now. This edit is not "fixing an inaccuracy", but putting forth a discredited conspiracy theory that not even former members of the group still claim to be valid. Udittmer ( talk) 11:54, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
As far as I know Arndt Müller never admitted that he passed the guns inside the Prison. Besides, jailers or prison officials were present during the meetings between lawyers and defendants. Thus the relevant sentence inside the article should change to be clear that, this was the official version.
This is a highly biased section, IMO, and largely incorrect. If it is based on the two references given ("Nach der Katastrophe" und "Fire and Flames") then the same goes for those. Toughening of police and judicial rules in order to deal with the perceived threat from terrorism had begun long before these events; using the phrase "police state" in conjunction with those even in the present form ("a little way") is wide of the mark. Furthermore, the "Großer Krisenstab" was not a "government" at all, it was a regular meeting of high-level officials for dealing with the crisis at hand. It did not preempt or usurp the government in any way, nor did it deal with unrelated matters. To sum it up: much would have to be changed about this section to bring it in line with the standards of this medium (and with reality); I think it would best be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Udittmer ( talk • contribs) 13:08, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
The infobox suggests, that Hanns Martin Schleyer and Siegfried Buback were fighting the RAF. They were both kidnapped and murdered, but the sole "leader" would be the leader of the German government, which was the just deceased Helmut Schmidt. One might argue they were representing what the RAF was fighting, but they were not the leaders. -- Aeroid ( talk) 18:19, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Listing Baader, Ensslin and Mahler as leaders of the RAF during the German Autumn is misleading, if not downright incorrect. Mahler was a leader only for a short time, and by 1977 was in jail and had been sidelined entirely. While Baader and Ensslin could be considered figureheads of the RAF, they too had been in jail for years by then, and could direct operations at best in a high-level and roundabout way. Brigitte Mohnhaupt and Christian Klar are most likely to have been RAF leaders at that time. I'm replacing Mahler with Mohnhaupt and Klar. Udittmer ( talk) 11:09, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
German Autumn article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Is German Autumn really a used term in Britain or the states for the Deutsche Herbst? Or is it a translation from a german? -- mirer 19:49, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Regarding the extra-judical killings... why not point to a couple of links to sources or other debate? It's an important part of left-wing mythology and I'd like to read more about it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.67.108.142 ( talk) 19:07, 4 June 2005 (UTC)
Why is the PFLP called a 'terrorist group'? They are freedom fighters.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.27.158 ( talk) 16:19, 6 July 2005 (UTC)
In the article Schleyer is introduced as "former SS officer and NSDAP member" and "industrialist". Schleyer was a board member at Daimler-Benz and president of the powerful federation of employers' associations. The description in this article reduces his importance largely to his past (he joined the SS whan he was 18) and thus suggests strongly and right from the start that he somehow deserved what he got and that his murderers had, after all, a point. To discuss the fact that Schleyer was a controversial figure for more than one reason in a separate paragraph further down the page would do the truth a better service.
I recommend, for those who can read it, the German entry.
Verity Truth 21:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I just changed the page without looking up the discussion page first; I think Schleyer was a target becaus of his position. After all, the RAF didn't abduct any old ex-Nazi officer they could lay their hands on. -- chlange001 ( talk) 10:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I suspect the events are nit significant enough for the english speaking world to warrant a proper word other than the translation
Why use anything BUT the translation when the term is so clearly defined? Did we Germans invent anything fancy for -- say -- the Wars of the Roses instead of calling it just Rosenkriege? No, we didn't. Would there be a necessity to call it anything else? Geranienkriege or what? So why the discontent with German Autumn?
And anybody who finds the events of the German Autumn "not significant", now, exactly 30 years later and in the chilling light of global Islamist terror, needs his head examined some private lessons in history.
Verity Truth 21:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Image:Hanns Martin Schleyer in captivity.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 23:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
we all know that the deaths of the raf members were questionable but they were not officially murdered the article should reflect this instead of outright claiming they were murderd in there cells 78.148.169.55 ( talk) 21:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Someone recently changed "suicides in prison" to "killed in prison" with the description Fixed inaccurate information. It needs to be noted that virtually nobody still believes that to be the case by now. This edit is not "fixing an inaccuracy", but putting forth a discredited conspiracy theory that not even former members of the group still claim to be valid. Udittmer ( talk) 11:54, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
As far as I know Arndt Müller never admitted that he passed the guns inside the Prison. Besides, jailers or prison officials were present during the meetings between lawyers and defendants. Thus the relevant sentence inside the article should change to be clear that, this was the official version.
This is a highly biased section, IMO, and largely incorrect. If it is based on the two references given ("Nach der Katastrophe" und "Fire and Flames") then the same goes for those. Toughening of police and judicial rules in order to deal with the perceived threat from terrorism had begun long before these events; using the phrase "police state" in conjunction with those even in the present form ("a little way") is wide of the mark. Furthermore, the "Großer Krisenstab" was not a "government" at all, it was a regular meeting of high-level officials for dealing with the crisis at hand. It did not preempt or usurp the government in any way, nor did it deal with unrelated matters. To sum it up: much would have to be changed about this section to bring it in line with the standards of this medium (and with reality); I think it would best be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Udittmer ( talk • contribs) 13:08, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
The infobox suggests, that Hanns Martin Schleyer and Siegfried Buback were fighting the RAF. They were both kidnapped and murdered, but the sole "leader" would be the leader of the German government, which was the just deceased Helmut Schmidt. One might argue they were representing what the RAF was fighting, but they were not the leaders. -- Aeroid ( talk) 18:19, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Listing Baader, Ensslin and Mahler as leaders of the RAF during the German Autumn is misleading, if not downright incorrect. Mahler was a leader only for a short time, and by 1977 was in jail and had been sidelined entirely. While Baader and Ensslin could be considered figureheads of the RAF, they too had been in jail for years by then, and could direct operations at best in a high-level and roundabout way. Brigitte Mohnhaupt and Christian Klar are most likely to have been RAF leaders at that time. I'm replacing Mahler with Mohnhaupt and Klar. Udittmer ( talk) 11:09, 11 December 2018 (UTC)