Just an interesting piece here. They're certainly very enlightening views and may work as an addition to this article in some form. Thoughts? --AWF —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.155.58 ( talk) 16:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
Good work on copying right out of the CBC article, perhaps a rewording that is not so opinionated, ie "Gerald Ford did Canada a huge favour", perpetuating once again that Canada needs to and does ride on America's coat tails.
"Ford also “became the only future U. S. president to tackle a future Heisman Trophy winner when he brought down halfback Jay Berwanger, who won the first Heisman the following year.”"
isn't this getting a bit into minutia? -- johno95 03:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
"Harry and Bess Truman are the presidential couple who have lived the most total years, with 185 (88d and 97d respectively). Gerald and Betty Ford (93d and 88), are currently in second with 181 and Ronald and Nancy Reagan (93d and 85) are currently in third with 178."
I assume 88d means 88 at death. "Current" is slippery. A specific date should be used: "as of..." whatever. Wahkeenah 05:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
does this look right?
is (93 + 82) tied by (90 + 86)?
Also, if the Reagans held the record when Ronald died, how could the Fords have tied it at that time? If so, they would have BOTH held the record. -- johno95 14:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
another question:
I don't think we should get into longevity stats regarding the Office of the Vice President. Garner and Morton. Who cares?
under "college" it reads in part:
"...and Green Bay Packers of the National Football League in order to take a coaching position at Yale and apply to its law school..."
under "law", it reads:
"...Starting in September 1935, Ford worked as an assistant football and boxing coach at the university..."
can't this be combined and placed under "college"? -- johno95 04:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
It's official now. Gerald R. Ford passed away in December, 2006 at age 93. This makes him the longest-lived U.S. President to date.
I changed the heading "College" to "Athletics". It was originally titled "Football" before someone changed it. Athletics is a better title because it discusses Ford playing football in highschool, college, and his assistant coaching days in football/boxing at Yale. This segways into the Law section. Veracious Rey talk↔ contribs 18:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I am reading this piece, and Ford is getting sicker. Then i am hit with longevity stats. then i learn that he dies. i think the longevity section should go after the death seaction. logically, it makes sense. -- johno95 00:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::Wait a sec, the Reagans were the oldest first couple (until Reagan's death in 2004)? In 2004 (for example); the Reagans were 93+83=176, the Fords 91+86=177. Point is, weren't the Fords? the oldest 'first couple' 1993-2006, (from Pat Nixon's death to Jerry Ford's death)?
GoodDay
22:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This section seems overly cumbersome and potentialy unnessecary. But, is anyone interested in cleaning it up, maybe wording this section better. Someone who is knowledgable in freemasonry would be our best bet. I've already taken some poorly worded and quoted material out. It was such a mess I didn't know where a quote started or ended, or when a new paragraph started. I wouldn't mind deleting the entire section, but someone thought it important enough to spend a good amount of time adding it. Veracious Rey talk ↔ contribs 02:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
All editorys, after reviewing the Freemasonry section, please cast a vote to Keep or Remove with your rationale. Veracious Rey talk ↔ contribs 11:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Maybe something like this:
Ford was initiated into Masonry on September 30, 1949 along with his brothers Thomas Gardner Ford (1918–1995), Richard Addison Ford (1924– ) and James Francis Ford (1927– ). In 1959 he became a Shriner, joining Saladin Shrine Temple, A.A.O.N.M.A.S. in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Ford was also a member of several other organizations including: The American Legion, Veterans of foreign Wars and AMVETS. Jasper23 20:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I've reworded and compacted the section, removing various minor details, added links, and changed the title from Freemasonry to Organizations. Much better, I think. Veracious Rey talk ↔ contribs 21:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I've removed a few photos over the last couple of days from the death section, for two reasons:
Fellow Wikipedians, I have added the graph (which keeps being removed by an anonymous Wikipedian, who also keeps removing it from the Discussion section) re Ford's biological father, ie his spousal abuse and alcoholism and a physical attack which sparked his divorce from Ford's mother. Basically and literally, Dorothy Gardner King (later Ford) fled an abusive marriage and a threat of death by butcher knife, all of which was discussed by Ford later in life when James Cannon, who worked with him in the White House, was working on a book about the former president. I would like to start a discussion as to why and/or why not this information is appropriate for Wiki. I happen to believe that it is. Any insights, comments? Basically, I'm just tired of putting it back into the section. Mowens35 22:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
At one point, the article says, "The team suffered a steep decline in his 1934 senior year, however, winning only one game." Then, "During the 1934 championship game, during which Michigan held heavily favored Minnesota (the eventual national champion) to a scoreless...."
If Michigan only won one game, they didn't play in the championship game. Alecjp 05:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Did football seasons straddle calendar years then as they do now? Agreed that this is unclear. -- Rostov 22:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The first sentence shoud clearly state: Gerald Rudolph Ford (born Leslie Lynch King, Jr.). Editors sometimes argue that it is redundant to provide this information when there is also an article section that elaborates on name changes. It is standard practice, however, to provide both the actual name and the birth name in a bio, and most articles follow this precedent even where name info is provided later on. The reason for this is to conserve an article's encyclopedic quality. A user should not be burdened to search within the article body for first-order data that identifies and classifies the subject-matter. Birth name is regarded as one of the core elements of introductory info that is mandatory for a responsably written reference article. If the introduction to the section that elaborates on his name seems too redundant, then it can be reworded for aesthetic purposes, but the section should not detract from the encyclopedic responsabilities in the opening paragraph.-- Supersexyspacemonkey 03:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I feel that it is very appropriate and adds to this article to have a current picture of his recently completed tomb. I'll cut down the size if you feel it is necesary, but I would appreciate it if you would at least communicate witth me before removing for no real reason other then the fact that you dislike me. I am not committing any vandalism, I just respect Ford and felt i was adding spmething positive to his article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eman1114 ( talk • contribs)
I DID COMMENT. I commented here about this section, I commented on the history page. Does no one think he should have commented why the pic was needed in this tiny section?? Answer me that. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review me 02:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
You're coming close to biting. And I've explained why I don't think the pic is needed.
If you don't agree, fine. But don't tell me to "come of it". I'm done talking about this. I said you guys have won, so leave it alone, please. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review me 04:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks guys for sticking up fpr me. I was getting really discouraged but you all showed that there are plenty of good editors out there. Thanks guys.-- Eman1114
I did a test run by merging Ford's death article with the main Ford article. The resulting page is terrribly long. We would serve Wikipedia users better if both Ford articles were kept seperate (in my view). For example, the main Reagan article is still seperate from his death article. In fact, info about his death in the main Reagan article is very short, with no pics either. Perhaps we could shorten the death info in the Gerald Ford article as well. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review me 02:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
While it is important that there is a too-brief mention of Ford's role in supporting Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in the article as written, there is not currently an analysis of Ford's human rights record, especialy his support for other repressive regimes around the world, and I believe this is very important.
One of Ford's only achievements in the human rights area was the signing of the Helsinki accords, which put the Soviet Union and its Eastern European satellites on record as supporting political human rights which they so ruthlessly repressed. As Ford rightly claimed, human rights activists in these countries were able to point to the Helsinki Accords to bolster the cause, eventually helping lead to the nonviolent revolutions which overthrew these regimes in 1989.
Yet, in other countries around the world, Ford routinely allied with despots who supported the US in cold war struggles. Ford supported several dictators in Latin America, including [ Augusto Pinochet in Chile] during some of the worst of the repression there. Ford also supported the [ Shah of Iran], [ Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines], and [ Mobotu in Zaire], despite their atrocious human rights records and, at least in the case of the latter two, their kleptocratic style of rule.
Ford's opposition to sanctions against [ South African apartheid], and his support for South Africa's invasions of Namibia and [ Angola], had devastating consequences for the people of the region.
Ford's support for the war in Angola was so egregious that it is one of the few occasions when Congress reined in a President's military intervention For more on Ford's role in Angola and Zaire, see also the book by Jonathan Kwitney, a Wall St. Journal reporter, Endless Enemies. (The same Congress also curtailed Ford's power to continue fighting the war in Vietnam).
Some of this is enumerated (Zunes would probably supply footnotes upon request, as he is a respected scholar) in Professor Zunes' article at Reasons Not to Like Ford.
Le Monde Diplomatique also describes how the Ford administration supported Morocco's invasion and occupation of the Western Sahara. Most infamously, Kissinger told Ford, "Hassan has pulled back in the Sahara. But if he doesn’t get it, he is finished. We should now work to ensure he gets it. We would work it through the UN [to] ensure a favourable vote." According to the article above, Moynihan's memoirs confirm that this is the policy Ford followed.
-- Sam Diener 07:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Ford became president because of the watergate scandal. I think this should be mentioned in the first paragraph. What do you think? (I hope you try to set aside your personal feelings for me in voting. I'm trying.) -- johno95 00:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
It should be possible to close this article's FAR without a FARC; however, the prose size is currently at 45KB (see WP:LENGTH) and the article could benefit from moving about 5KB to daughter articles, via summary style. Can anyone work on that, and give us some feedback on the FAR (see link at top of page)? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Somebody slipped this link into the External Links section. In addition to the spurious subject matter and the source's lack of credibility, the biased and exaggerated title ("Ford forced to admit the Warren Report fictionalized") makes me suspicious of the contributor's intentions. The matter of Ford and the Warren Report is already discussed in this article, so I went ahead and removed the link. Mr. Accident 21:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
In the section on Gerald Ford's post-presidency it should be added that he is also the namesake for the University of Michigan's Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy. I believe there is a link to the Ford School in the links section, but there is no mention in the body of the text. As a new user I cannot make changes to this page. Could someone please make this change for me? Schroeda 17:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)schroeda
Just an interesting piece here. They're certainly very enlightening views and may work as an addition to this article in some form. Thoughts? --AWF —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.155.58 ( talk) 16:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
Good work on copying right out of the CBC article, perhaps a rewording that is not so opinionated, ie "Gerald Ford did Canada a huge favour", perpetuating once again that Canada needs to and does ride on America's coat tails.
"Ford also “became the only future U. S. president to tackle a future Heisman Trophy winner when he brought down halfback Jay Berwanger, who won the first Heisman the following year.”"
isn't this getting a bit into minutia? -- johno95 03:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
"Harry and Bess Truman are the presidential couple who have lived the most total years, with 185 (88d and 97d respectively). Gerald and Betty Ford (93d and 88), are currently in second with 181 and Ronald and Nancy Reagan (93d and 85) are currently in third with 178."
I assume 88d means 88 at death. "Current" is slippery. A specific date should be used: "as of..." whatever. Wahkeenah 05:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
does this look right?
is (93 + 82) tied by (90 + 86)?
Also, if the Reagans held the record when Ronald died, how could the Fords have tied it at that time? If so, they would have BOTH held the record. -- johno95 14:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
another question:
I don't think we should get into longevity stats regarding the Office of the Vice President. Garner and Morton. Who cares?
under "college" it reads in part:
"...and Green Bay Packers of the National Football League in order to take a coaching position at Yale and apply to its law school..."
under "law", it reads:
"...Starting in September 1935, Ford worked as an assistant football and boxing coach at the university..."
can't this be combined and placed under "college"? -- johno95 04:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
It's official now. Gerald R. Ford passed away in December, 2006 at age 93. This makes him the longest-lived U.S. President to date.
I changed the heading "College" to "Athletics". It was originally titled "Football" before someone changed it. Athletics is a better title because it discusses Ford playing football in highschool, college, and his assistant coaching days in football/boxing at Yale. This segways into the Law section. Veracious Rey talk↔ contribs 18:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I am reading this piece, and Ford is getting sicker. Then i am hit with longevity stats. then i learn that he dies. i think the longevity section should go after the death seaction. logically, it makes sense. -- johno95 00:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::Wait a sec, the Reagans were the oldest first couple (until Reagan's death in 2004)? In 2004 (for example); the Reagans were 93+83=176, the Fords 91+86=177. Point is, weren't the Fords? the oldest 'first couple' 1993-2006, (from Pat Nixon's death to Jerry Ford's death)?
GoodDay
22:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This section seems overly cumbersome and potentialy unnessecary. But, is anyone interested in cleaning it up, maybe wording this section better. Someone who is knowledgable in freemasonry would be our best bet. I've already taken some poorly worded and quoted material out. It was such a mess I didn't know where a quote started or ended, or when a new paragraph started. I wouldn't mind deleting the entire section, but someone thought it important enough to spend a good amount of time adding it. Veracious Rey talk ↔ contribs 02:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
All editorys, after reviewing the Freemasonry section, please cast a vote to Keep or Remove with your rationale. Veracious Rey talk ↔ contribs 11:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Maybe something like this:
Ford was initiated into Masonry on September 30, 1949 along with his brothers Thomas Gardner Ford (1918–1995), Richard Addison Ford (1924– ) and James Francis Ford (1927– ). In 1959 he became a Shriner, joining Saladin Shrine Temple, A.A.O.N.M.A.S. in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Ford was also a member of several other organizations including: The American Legion, Veterans of foreign Wars and AMVETS. Jasper23 20:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I've reworded and compacted the section, removing various minor details, added links, and changed the title from Freemasonry to Organizations. Much better, I think. Veracious Rey talk ↔ contribs 21:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I've removed a few photos over the last couple of days from the death section, for two reasons:
Fellow Wikipedians, I have added the graph (which keeps being removed by an anonymous Wikipedian, who also keeps removing it from the Discussion section) re Ford's biological father, ie his spousal abuse and alcoholism and a physical attack which sparked his divorce from Ford's mother. Basically and literally, Dorothy Gardner King (later Ford) fled an abusive marriage and a threat of death by butcher knife, all of which was discussed by Ford later in life when James Cannon, who worked with him in the White House, was working on a book about the former president. I would like to start a discussion as to why and/or why not this information is appropriate for Wiki. I happen to believe that it is. Any insights, comments? Basically, I'm just tired of putting it back into the section. Mowens35 22:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
At one point, the article says, "The team suffered a steep decline in his 1934 senior year, however, winning only one game." Then, "During the 1934 championship game, during which Michigan held heavily favored Minnesota (the eventual national champion) to a scoreless...."
If Michigan only won one game, they didn't play in the championship game. Alecjp 05:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Did football seasons straddle calendar years then as they do now? Agreed that this is unclear. -- Rostov 22:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The first sentence shoud clearly state: Gerald Rudolph Ford (born Leslie Lynch King, Jr.). Editors sometimes argue that it is redundant to provide this information when there is also an article section that elaborates on name changes. It is standard practice, however, to provide both the actual name and the birth name in a bio, and most articles follow this precedent even where name info is provided later on. The reason for this is to conserve an article's encyclopedic quality. A user should not be burdened to search within the article body for first-order data that identifies and classifies the subject-matter. Birth name is regarded as one of the core elements of introductory info that is mandatory for a responsably written reference article. If the introduction to the section that elaborates on his name seems too redundant, then it can be reworded for aesthetic purposes, but the section should not detract from the encyclopedic responsabilities in the opening paragraph.-- Supersexyspacemonkey 03:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I feel that it is very appropriate and adds to this article to have a current picture of his recently completed tomb. I'll cut down the size if you feel it is necesary, but I would appreciate it if you would at least communicate witth me before removing for no real reason other then the fact that you dislike me. I am not committing any vandalism, I just respect Ford and felt i was adding spmething positive to his article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eman1114 ( talk • contribs)
I DID COMMENT. I commented here about this section, I commented on the history page. Does no one think he should have commented why the pic was needed in this tiny section?? Answer me that. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review me 02:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
You're coming close to biting. And I've explained why I don't think the pic is needed.
If you don't agree, fine. But don't tell me to "come of it". I'm done talking about this. I said you guys have won, so leave it alone, please. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review me 04:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks guys for sticking up fpr me. I was getting really discouraged but you all showed that there are plenty of good editors out there. Thanks guys.-- Eman1114
I did a test run by merging Ford's death article with the main Ford article. The resulting page is terrribly long. We would serve Wikipedia users better if both Ford articles were kept seperate (in my view). For example, the main Reagan article is still seperate from his death article. In fact, info about his death in the main Reagan article is very short, with no pics either. Perhaps we could shorten the death info in the Gerald Ford article as well. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review me 02:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
While it is important that there is a too-brief mention of Ford's role in supporting Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in the article as written, there is not currently an analysis of Ford's human rights record, especialy his support for other repressive regimes around the world, and I believe this is very important.
One of Ford's only achievements in the human rights area was the signing of the Helsinki accords, which put the Soviet Union and its Eastern European satellites on record as supporting political human rights which they so ruthlessly repressed. As Ford rightly claimed, human rights activists in these countries were able to point to the Helsinki Accords to bolster the cause, eventually helping lead to the nonviolent revolutions which overthrew these regimes in 1989.
Yet, in other countries around the world, Ford routinely allied with despots who supported the US in cold war struggles. Ford supported several dictators in Latin America, including [ Augusto Pinochet in Chile] during some of the worst of the repression there. Ford also supported the [ Shah of Iran], [ Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines], and [ Mobotu in Zaire], despite their atrocious human rights records and, at least in the case of the latter two, their kleptocratic style of rule.
Ford's opposition to sanctions against [ South African apartheid], and his support for South Africa's invasions of Namibia and [ Angola], had devastating consequences for the people of the region.
Ford's support for the war in Angola was so egregious that it is one of the few occasions when Congress reined in a President's military intervention For more on Ford's role in Angola and Zaire, see also the book by Jonathan Kwitney, a Wall St. Journal reporter, Endless Enemies. (The same Congress also curtailed Ford's power to continue fighting the war in Vietnam).
Some of this is enumerated (Zunes would probably supply footnotes upon request, as he is a respected scholar) in Professor Zunes' article at Reasons Not to Like Ford.
Le Monde Diplomatique also describes how the Ford administration supported Morocco's invasion and occupation of the Western Sahara. Most infamously, Kissinger told Ford, "Hassan has pulled back in the Sahara. But if he doesn’t get it, he is finished. We should now work to ensure he gets it. We would work it through the UN [to] ensure a favourable vote." According to the article above, Moynihan's memoirs confirm that this is the policy Ford followed.
-- Sam Diener 07:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Ford became president because of the watergate scandal. I think this should be mentioned in the first paragraph. What do you think? (I hope you try to set aside your personal feelings for me in voting. I'm trying.) -- johno95 00:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
It should be possible to close this article's FAR without a FARC; however, the prose size is currently at 45KB (see WP:LENGTH) and the article could benefit from moving about 5KB to daughter articles, via summary style. Can anyone work on that, and give us some feedback on the FAR (see link at top of page)? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Somebody slipped this link into the External Links section. In addition to the spurious subject matter and the source's lack of credibility, the biased and exaggerated title ("Ford forced to admit the Warren Report fictionalized") makes me suspicious of the contributor's intentions. The matter of Ford and the Warren Report is already discussed in this article, so I went ahead and removed the link. Mr. Accident 21:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
In the section on Gerald Ford's post-presidency it should be added that he is also the namesake for the University of Michigan's Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy. I believe there is a link to the Ford School in the links section, but there is no mention in the body of the text. As a new user I cannot make changes to this page. Could someone please make this change for me? Schroeda 17:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)schroeda