![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
College/school | |
Georgetown College | |
Graduate School of Arts and Sciences | |
School of Medicine | |
Law Center | |
School of Nursing and Health Studies | |
Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service | |
School of Continuing Studies | |
McDonough School of Business | |
McCourt School of Public Policy |
A discussion was begun regarding how to best format a table of the various schools that comprise Georgetown University. The current format is found in the Academics section. I propose migrating to the the format more commonly espoused by the articles of other universities such as Harvard, Duke, Yale, and Columbia. Additionally, as Patrickneil pointed out, the current table incorrectly denotes the School of Continuing Studies as undergraduate only. It is difficult to accurately reflect the schools in this manner since there are an unequal number of graduate and undergraduate schools, and that some schools offer both undergraduate and graduate degrees.
I believe the formats linked above can more properly and clearly reflect the schools' statuses. The table for Georgetown would look like this:
Ergo Sum 21:51, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
The lead section should include somewhere that the governing body of Georgetown University is the President and Directors of Georgetown College. This is a newly-created article (in case you were wondering). Ergo Sum 02:17, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
A conflict of interest tag was recently placed at the top of this article. A discussion should be had regarding the question it raises and the template's propriety of placement. Seeing as the user who placed the the template did not indicate any specific fault or leave any comment on this talk page and, upon reviewing the article, none is apparent to me, I am disinclined to maintain the tag. If possible, can @ Yairr:, the initiator of the template on this article, weigh in? What are everyone else's thoughts? Ergo Sum 15:12, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
All of the reference errors – "[e]xternal link in |work= (
help)" – have been fixed. The methods used may not be ideal and could perhaps be refined, e.g. some instances changed "work" to "department" while others changed "work" to "website" (and in some of those cases eliminated "publisher" as "website" was preferred), some merged "work" with "website" (such as removing the external link for "Undergraduate Bulletin" and using "Georgetown University – Undergraduate Bulletin" as the "website"), etc.
The complete comparison of all changes I had made in 12 edits (to fix ~48 reference "work=" errors, ~19.6% of references) is
here. (I am a bit surprised a featured article would have so many reference errors, but those may have occurred after FA status was granted...?)
99.170.117.163 (
talk)
13:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
It has come to my attention that many university articles on Wikipedia that are of high quality make use of the native name field in their infoboxes (which are predominately in Latin). Georgetown does have an equivalent. On the seal, it reads "Collegium Georgiopolitanum Ad Ripas Potomaci in Marylandia." This is verified here. Therefore, I recommend that the native name field be used to include either that or its abbreviated form, "Collegium Georgiopolitanum." Ergo Sum 23:16, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to raise a broader issue: Why in the world would anyone, especially readers of this encyclopedia, care about the Latin names of U.S. institutions? Why is this worth any of our time or space? Other than college seals and other obscure places, where is this information used? How is it useful for readers? ElKevbo ( talk) 18:14, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
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Georgetown University is a private research university in Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States. Founded in 1789 as Georgetown College, the university has since grown to include nine undergraduate and graduate schools, including the School of Foreign Service, School of Business, a Medical Center and a Law School. Georgetown's main campus is located on a hill above the Potomac River. It is recognizable by its flagship Healy Hall, a National Historic Landmark that towers over Washington's Georgetown neighborhood.
Georgetown offers degree programs in forty-eight disciplines, enrolling an average of 7,500
undergraduate and 10,000
post-graduate students from more than 130 countries.
[1] The university is especially renowned known for preparing leaders for careers in government and international affairs. As of 2015, Georgetown produced more diplomats for the
U.S. Foreign Service than any other school in the country,
[2] while ranking second in the U.S. by the average number of its graduates serving in the
U.S. Congress.
[3] Georgetown's
notable alumni include U.S. President
Bill Clinton, U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice
Antonin Scalia,
CIA Director
George Tenet, actor
Bradley Cooper, King
Felipe VI of Spain, as well as the
royalty and
heads of state of
more than a dozen countries.
Georgetown is the oldest
Catholic and
Jesuit-affiliated institution of higher education in the United States. The Jesuits have participated in the university's academic life, both as scholars and as administrators, since 1805; Although Georgetown celebrates this rich religious heritage, the university has always been governed independently of the church. At present, more than half of Georgetown's students are estimated to be of non-Catholic or non-religious background. however, the university has always been governed independently of the church. At present, the majority of Georgetown students do not identify as Catholic.
[4]
Georgetown is home to the country's largest student-run business, as well as the largest student-run financial institution. The school’s athletic teams, nicknamed the Hoyas, include a men's basketball team that has won a record-tying seven Big East championships, appeared in five Final Fours, and won a national championship in 1984, as well as a co-ed sailing team that holds nine national championship and one world championship title.
I personally think that the new introduction, as shown above, does a much better job of explaining both the nature and the strengths of Georgetown. The old intro claims that Georgetown's graduates "are prominent in public life", yet does not provide any metrics beyond just dropping a few big names. Similarly, the old intro discusses Georgetown's Catholic/Jesuit heritage without explaining what this signifies. As a member of the Georgetown community, the single most frequent question I hear from students is whether they have to be Catholic in order to attend or whether they will feel out of place at Georgetown. The new introduction does not just drop the fact of religious affiliation but also elucidates how this reflects on the student body, which is a pretty essential piece of information. Lastly, I think the new intro flows better, explaining the most relevant points in the order of importance. -- Satt 2 ( talk) 15:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
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I feel strongly that the U.S. News and World Report academic rankings are utter garbage. [trash 1] Its been well documented over many years that they are simply a sales gimmick of an otherwise failing American magazine relegated to the checkout aisle with the other tabloids. [trash 2] [trash 3] The "methodology" behind these is known to take into account such make-believe data points as "reputation" or "faculty dedication," [trash 4] which in turn let school lie and cheat to increase their rank. [trash 5] [trash 6] Basically these rankings are done with the outcome in mind. As such, I see positively no reason to feature their unscientific graduate and departmental numbers in two boxes under the Academics subsection, particularly when they're in addition to the already-existing box and a mention in the article's text. I feel that if a reader wants these numbers, they can just type in USNews.com, but these don't belong on Wikipedia.org. Anyone want to make the argument for why these are worth highlighting?-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 14:55, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
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The first category shown at the top of the article is "Articles with text from the Artificial languages collective" shown in red, meaning that there is no such category. Please fix or delete.-- Dthomsen8 ( talk) 14:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
This was discussed before, but two weeks ago the adjective "Catholic" found its way back into the first sentence of the article. The problem is, a Catholic school is operated by the Catholic Church. Georgetown is not. Georgetown is run by a board of directors. That's why we wrote that sentence saying "Georgetown is the oldest Catholic and Jesuit-affiliated institution..." because is a more accurate way to state this fact. Even more accurate is to say that Georgetown is a member of the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities, which is what we do in the "Jesuit tradition" subsection. I do want to tread lightly here, as the idea of taking the "Catholic" out of Georgetown plays into this narrative that Georgetown is becoming less Catholic, but Wikipedia is about being accurate with the article's subject, I do feel "Catholic university" is less accurate than our alternatives.-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 00:54, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Understood, but this is no different than how any other Jesuit school (Boston College, Fordham, Holy Cross, etc.) lists their school in the first sentence. All of those schools have similar governance, so I guess was just looking to be consistent with their format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.250.85.196 ( talk) 13:36, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Georgetown University is one of the world’s leading academic and research institutions, offering a unique educational experience that prepares the next generation of global citizens to lead and make a difference in the world. Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university. We provide students with a world-class learning experience focused on educating the whole person through exposure to different faiths, cultures and beliefs. Students are challenged to engage in the world and become men and women in the service of others, especially the most vulnerable and disadvantaged members of the community. [1]
The introduction already says that "Georgetown is the oldest Catholic and Jesuit-affiliated institution of higher education in the United States"--enough said. There is absolutely no reason to also say that it is a "Catholic research university" in the very first sentence. Georgetown is a research university that happens to be catholic, it is not a catholic university that happens to do research. The religion is not central to Georgetown's existence and we should not mislead readers into thinking so.--
Sargentpeale (
talk)
23:57, 10 May 2018 (UTC)<---
CU blocked
sock, see
SPI Satt 2
Daveg023, so you're basically admitting that the reason you keep inserting the word "Catholic" in the first sentence is to promote Georgetown as a Catholic school on Google?! That is not a legitimate reason to modify a perfectly good introduction. In fact, while Georgetown IS a Catholic/Jesuit school, it is questionable whether our Catholic/Jesuit affiliation is the school's most important attribute, so much so that it has to be the VERY FIRST thing that comes up in Google. As a Hoya, I personally think it is an insult to our centuries-old university to suggest that our antiquated, and by all standards rather tenuous religious affiliation is our most essential attribute, one that HAS to come before all else. Even the school's own description does not do that. Much of what you have written so far, including the trivia section, reads like a cheesy promotional material presented from a single perspective. Please stop promoting this oversimplified and misleading material about Georgetown.--
Sargentpeale (
talk)
21:48, 16 May 2018 (UTC)<---
CU blocked
sock, see
SPI Satt 2
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
College/school | |
Georgetown College | |
Graduate School of Arts and Sciences | |
School of Medicine | |
Law Center | |
School of Nursing and Health Studies | |
Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service | |
School of Continuing Studies | |
McDonough School of Business | |
McCourt School of Public Policy |
A discussion was begun regarding how to best format a table of the various schools that comprise Georgetown University. The current format is found in the Academics section. I propose migrating to the the format more commonly espoused by the articles of other universities such as Harvard, Duke, Yale, and Columbia. Additionally, as Patrickneil pointed out, the current table incorrectly denotes the School of Continuing Studies as undergraduate only. It is difficult to accurately reflect the schools in this manner since there are an unequal number of graduate and undergraduate schools, and that some schools offer both undergraduate and graduate degrees.
I believe the formats linked above can more properly and clearly reflect the schools' statuses. The table for Georgetown would look like this:
Ergo Sum 21:51, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
The lead section should include somewhere that the governing body of Georgetown University is the President and Directors of Georgetown College. This is a newly-created article (in case you were wondering). Ergo Sum 02:17, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
A conflict of interest tag was recently placed at the top of this article. A discussion should be had regarding the question it raises and the template's propriety of placement. Seeing as the user who placed the the template did not indicate any specific fault or leave any comment on this talk page and, upon reviewing the article, none is apparent to me, I am disinclined to maintain the tag. If possible, can @ Yairr:, the initiator of the template on this article, weigh in? What are everyone else's thoughts? Ergo Sum 15:12, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
All of the reference errors – "[e]xternal link in |work= (
help)" – have been fixed. The methods used may not be ideal and could perhaps be refined, e.g. some instances changed "work" to "department" while others changed "work" to "website" (and in some of those cases eliminated "publisher" as "website" was preferred), some merged "work" with "website" (such as removing the external link for "Undergraduate Bulletin" and using "Georgetown University – Undergraduate Bulletin" as the "website"), etc.
The complete comparison of all changes I had made in 12 edits (to fix ~48 reference "work=" errors, ~19.6% of references) is
here. (I am a bit surprised a featured article would have so many reference errors, but those may have occurred after FA status was granted...?)
99.170.117.163 (
talk)
13:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
It has come to my attention that many university articles on Wikipedia that are of high quality make use of the native name field in their infoboxes (which are predominately in Latin). Georgetown does have an equivalent. On the seal, it reads "Collegium Georgiopolitanum Ad Ripas Potomaci in Marylandia." This is verified here. Therefore, I recommend that the native name field be used to include either that or its abbreviated form, "Collegium Georgiopolitanum." Ergo Sum 23:16, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to raise a broader issue: Why in the world would anyone, especially readers of this encyclopedia, care about the Latin names of U.S. institutions? Why is this worth any of our time or space? Other than college seals and other obscure places, where is this information used? How is it useful for readers? ElKevbo ( talk) 18:14, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
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Georgetown University is a private research university in Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States. Founded in 1789 as Georgetown College, the university has since grown to include nine undergraduate and graduate schools, including the School of Foreign Service, School of Business, a Medical Center and a Law School. Georgetown's main campus is located on a hill above the Potomac River. It is recognizable by its flagship Healy Hall, a National Historic Landmark that towers over Washington's Georgetown neighborhood.
Georgetown offers degree programs in forty-eight disciplines, enrolling an average of 7,500
undergraduate and 10,000
post-graduate students from more than 130 countries.
[1] The university is especially renowned known for preparing leaders for careers in government and international affairs. As of 2015, Georgetown produced more diplomats for the
U.S. Foreign Service than any other school in the country,
[2] while ranking second in the U.S. by the average number of its graduates serving in the
U.S. Congress.
[3] Georgetown's
notable alumni include U.S. President
Bill Clinton, U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice
Antonin Scalia,
CIA Director
George Tenet, actor
Bradley Cooper, King
Felipe VI of Spain, as well as the
royalty and
heads of state of
more than a dozen countries.
Georgetown is the oldest
Catholic and
Jesuit-affiliated institution of higher education in the United States. The Jesuits have participated in the university's academic life, both as scholars and as administrators, since 1805; Although Georgetown celebrates this rich religious heritage, the university has always been governed independently of the church. At present, more than half of Georgetown's students are estimated to be of non-Catholic or non-religious background. however, the university has always been governed independently of the church. At present, the majority of Georgetown students do not identify as Catholic.
[4]
Georgetown is home to the country's largest student-run business, as well as the largest student-run financial institution. The school’s athletic teams, nicknamed the Hoyas, include a men's basketball team that has won a record-tying seven Big East championships, appeared in five Final Fours, and won a national championship in 1984, as well as a co-ed sailing team that holds nine national championship and one world championship title.
I personally think that the new introduction, as shown above, does a much better job of explaining both the nature and the strengths of Georgetown. The old intro claims that Georgetown's graduates "are prominent in public life", yet does not provide any metrics beyond just dropping a few big names. Similarly, the old intro discusses Georgetown's Catholic/Jesuit heritage without explaining what this signifies. As a member of the Georgetown community, the single most frequent question I hear from students is whether they have to be Catholic in order to attend or whether they will feel out of place at Georgetown. The new introduction does not just drop the fact of religious affiliation but also elucidates how this reflects on the student body, which is a pretty essential piece of information. Lastly, I think the new intro flows better, explaining the most relevant points in the order of importance. -- Satt 2 ( talk) 15:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
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I feel strongly that the U.S. News and World Report academic rankings are utter garbage. [trash 1] Its been well documented over many years that they are simply a sales gimmick of an otherwise failing American magazine relegated to the checkout aisle with the other tabloids. [trash 2] [trash 3] The "methodology" behind these is known to take into account such make-believe data points as "reputation" or "faculty dedication," [trash 4] which in turn let school lie and cheat to increase their rank. [trash 5] [trash 6] Basically these rankings are done with the outcome in mind. As such, I see positively no reason to feature their unscientific graduate and departmental numbers in two boxes under the Academics subsection, particularly when they're in addition to the already-existing box and a mention in the article's text. I feel that if a reader wants these numbers, they can just type in USNews.com, but these don't belong on Wikipedia.org. Anyone want to make the argument for why these are worth highlighting?-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 14:55, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:47, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The first category shown at the top of the article is "Articles with text from the Artificial languages collective" shown in red, meaning that there is no such category. Please fix or delete.-- Dthomsen8 ( talk) 14:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
This was discussed before, but two weeks ago the adjective "Catholic" found its way back into the first sentence of the article. The problem is, a Catholic school is operated by the Catholic Church. Georgetown is not. Georgetown is run by a board of directors. That's why we wrote that sentence saying "Georgetown is the oldest Catholic and Jesuit-affiliated institution..." because is a more accurate way to state this fact. Even more accurate is to say that Georgetown is a member of the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities, which is what we do in the "Jesuit tradition" subsection. I do want to tread lightly here, as the idea of taking the "Catholic" out of Georgetown plays into this narrative that Georgetown is becoming less Catholic, but Wikipedia is about being accurate with the article's subject, I do feel "Catholic university" is less accurate than our alternatives.-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 00:54, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Understood, but this is no different than how any other Jesuit school (Boston College, Fordham, Holy Cross, etc.) lists their school in the first sentence. All of those schools have similar governance, so I guess was just looking to be consistent with their format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.250.85.196 ( talk) 13:36, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Georgetown University is one of the world’s leading academic and research institutions, offering a unique educational experience that prepares the next generation of global citizens to lead and make a difference in the world. Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university. We provide students with a world-class learning experience focused on educating the whole person through exposure to different faiths, cultures and beliefs. Students are challenged to engage in the world and become men and women in the service of others, especially the most vulnerable and disadvantaged members of the community. [1]
The introduction already says that "Georgetown is the oldest Catholic and Jesuit-affiliated institution of higher education in the United States"--enough said. There is absolutely no reason to also say that it is a "Catholic research university" in the very first sentence. Georgetown is a research university that happens to be catholic, it is not a catholic university that happens to do research. The religion is not central to Georgetown's existence and we should not mislead readers into thinking so.--
Sargentpeale (
talk)
23:57, 10 May 2018 (UTC)<---
CU blocked
sock, see
SPI Satt 2
Daveg023, so you're basically admitting that the reason you keep inserting the word "Catholic" in the first sentence is to promote Georgetown as a Catholic school on Google?! That is not a legitimate reason to modify a perfectly good introduction. In fact, while Georgetown IS a Catholic/Jesuit school, it is questionable whether our Catholic/Jesuit affiliation is the school's most important attribute, so much so that it has to be the VERY FIRST thing that comes up in Google. As a Hoya, I personally think it is an insult to our centuries-old university to suggest that our antiquated, and by all standards rather tenuous religious affiliation is our most essential attribute, one that HAS to come before all else. Even the school's own description does not do that. Much of what you have written so far, including the trivia section, reads like a cheesy promotional material presented from a single perspective. Please stop promoting this oversimplified and misleading material about Georgetown.--
Sargentpeale (
talk)
21:48, 16 May 2018 (UTC)<---
CU blocked
sock, see
SPI Satt 2
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