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Aguyintobooks (
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contribs) on 2 September 2017 with the comment: I see no assertion of notability, just a random collection of minor mentions in books about Wales. It was contested by Syrenka V ( talk · contribs) on 2017-09-03 with the comment: Substantive coverage per WP:SIGCOV |
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![]() | The contents of the Geography and identity in Wales page were merged into Geography of Wales# Social geography on 29 August 2022. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
This article, if it is to be worthwhile, needs a great deal of work, in my view, and probably a change of name. The text was split off from an earlier article, North-South divide in the United Kingdom. I'm not at all sure there is a "divide" in Wales in the same sense as the (social, economic, cultural) divide between the south (or south east) and north of England - but clearly there are / were cultural variations within Wales. Most obviously, in the historic level of development and industrialisation, but also, going back into medieval history, the different kingdoms, and different dialects / versions of the language. There is also the question of simple rivalry between north and south. I am no expert on this at all, and I certainly don't want to be accused of stirring up divisiveness where there is no evidence for anything of substance, but I'd be interested in the views of other editors. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I believe this is a difficult article to justify as a stand-alone piece. As far as I can see the only real divides between the two areas, is the higher percentage of Welsh speakers in the North, the Assoc. Football / Rugby Union split and the physical divide caused by an inadequate transport link between them. I've been looking through The Welsh Academy Encyclopaedia of Wales for a reference on the so-called divide and they appear to ignore it. I think this will be difficult to reference as it is not based on any accepted social basis. Also, where is the divide line? There's no Watford Gap in Wales that I'm aware of. FruitMonkey ( talk) 13:47, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This article is absolute tosh. Flintishire is (one of) the richest country in Wales, and it's in the north. The valleys are very poor, while Wrexham is a boom town. Never mind the economy - that's not what the divide is about at all. There are no direct roads from north to south, nor railways. All roads lead to England, because that's how the valleys run. Wales has three part - the top, the bottom and a gigantic space in the middle - that's the divide. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
138.253.48.80 (
talk)
12:11, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
I've been looking at this article in more depth and I believe wholesale change is needed. Demographically, there is no clear north-south (or even east-west) divide in Wales. [2] [3] The linguistic [4] and economic [5] divides run east-west. The ONS Area Classification groups most of Wales into the "coastal and countryside" cluster, the south east and north east stand out. [6] I've already talked about the "three Wales model" in the conversation above. I reckon that we should completely re-write this article, or expand Geography of Wales with socio-economic information and delete this nonsense. What do others think?-- Pondle ( talk) 12:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I would prefer Social geography of Wales over any title with "divisions" in it; the latter option sounds more like a POV fork. Ham 18:20, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Can I propose Regional identity within Wales - or alternatively Regional identities within Wales - as clearer than, and preferable to, either the current title or the previous one. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 09:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
(re-indenting - developing into a new thread) Strangely, I can't think of any serious authors who have written about regional identities and differences within Wales (in the sense of north-south, east-west etc etc)... the best-known historians, such as Kenneth O. Morgan and Gwyn Alf Williams, scarcely seem to touch on this (beyond remarking about the differences between those blurry concepts, 'industrial' and 'rural' Wales). I can't find anything relevant in this work of sociology [7] or in the Welsh Academy encyclopedia, either. If there's nothing out there to cite, I suggest that we merge the material here into either Politics of Wales or even Welsh people, and delete the standalone article.-- Pondle ( talk) 19:21, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm reverting the text to the version provided by Ham, plus the tags I added. There is an unresolved issue over the scope of this article and the text, but my view is that, until that is resolved, it is better to be inclusive of suggested fields of coverage rather than seeking to exclude them. I will try to add further referenced text, and then in my view we should allow the article to "simmer" for a while - in preference to edit-warring over reasonable content. But we do need to have references. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:06, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I've translated the Welsh equivalent to this article below. As you can see, its content is totally different from that of its English counterpart! I'm putting it here for us to decide what, if anything, we'd like to include from it. Only one statement is sourced, and note that the title North-South divide in Wales has been retained (although it gives almost as much attention to East-West divisions). Ham 17:59, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page was
proposed for deletion by
Aguyintobooks (
talk ·
contribs) on 2 September 2017 with the comment: I see no assertion of notability, just a random collection of minor mentions in books about Wales. It was contested by Syrenka V ( talk · contribs) on 2017-09-03 with the comment: Substantive coverage per WP:SIGCOV |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Geography and identity in Wales page were merged into Geography of Wales# Social geography on 29 August 2022. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
This article, if it is to be worthwhile, needs a great deal of work, in my view, and probably a change of name. The text was split off from an earlier article, North-South divide in the United Kingdom. I'm not at all sure there is a "divide" in Wales in the same sense as the (social, economic, cultural) divide between the south (or south east) and north of England - but clearly there are / were cultural variations within Wales. Most obviously, in the historic level of development and industrialisation, but also, going back into medieval history, the different kingdoms, and different dialects / versions of the language. There is also the question of simple rivalry between north and south. I am no expert on this at all, and I certainly don't want to be accused of stirring up divisiveness where there is no evidence for anything of substance, but I'd be interested in the views of other editors. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I believe this is a difficult article to justify as a stand-alone piece. As far as I can see the only real divides between the two areas, is the higher percentage of Welsh speakers in the North, the Assoc. Football / Rugby Union split and the physical divide caused by an inadequate transport link between them. I've been looking through The Welsh Academy Encyclopaedia of Wales for a reference on the so-called divide and they appear to ignore it. I think this will be difficult to reference as it is not based on any accepted social basis. Also, where is the divide line? There's no Watford Gap in Wales that I'm aware of. FruitMonkey ( talk) 13:47, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This article is absolute tosh. Flintishire is (one of) the richest country in Wales, and it's in the north. The valleys are very poor, while Wrexham is a boom town. Never mind the economy - that's not what the divide is about at all. There are no direct roads from north to south, nor railways. All roads lead to England, because that's how the valleys run. Wales has three part - the top, the bottom and a gigantic space in the middle - that's the divide. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
138.253.48.80 (
talk)
12:11, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
I've been looking at this article in more depth and I believe wholesale change is needed. Demographically, there is no clear north-south (or even east-west) divide in Wales. [2] [3] The linguistic [4] and economic [5] divides run east-west. The ONS Area Classification groups most of Wales into the "coastal and countryside" cluster, the south east and north east stand out. [6] I've already talked about the "three Wales model" in the conversation above. I reckon that we should completely re-write this article, or expand Geography of Wales with socio-economic information and delete this nonsense. What do others think?-- Pondle ( talk) 12:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I would prefer Social geography of Wales over any title with "divisions" in it; the latter option sounds more like a POV fork. Ham 18:20, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Can I propose Regional identity within Wales - or alternatively Regional identities within Wales - as clearer than, and preferable to, either the current title or the previous one. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 09:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
(re-indenting - developing into a new thread) Strangely, I can't think of any serious authors who have written about regional identities and differences within Wales (in the sense of north-south, east-west etc etc)... the best-known historians, such as Kenneth O. Morgan and Gwyn Alf Williams, scarcely seem to touch on this (beyond remarking about the differences between those blurry concepts, 'industrial' and 'rural' Wales). I can't find anything relevant in this work of sociology [7] or in the Welsh Academy encyclopedia, either. If there's nothing out there to cite, I suggest that we merge the material here into either Politics of Wales or even Welsh people, and delete the standalone article.-- Pondle ( talk) 19:21, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm reverting the text to the version provided by Ham, plus the tags I added. There is an unresolved issue over the scope of this article and the text, but my view is that, until that is resolved, it is better to be inclusive of suggested fields of coverage rather than seeking to exclude them. I will try to add further referenced text, and then in my view we should allow the article to "simmer" for a while - in preference to edit-warring over reasonable content. But we do need to have references. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:06, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I've translated the Welsh equivalent to this article below. As you can see, its content is totally different from that of its English counterpart! I'm putting it here for us to decide what, if anything, we'd like to include from it. Only one statement is sourced, and note that the title North-South divide in Wales has been retained (although it gives almost as much attention to East-West divisions). Ham 17:59, 22 March 2010 (UTC)