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This page is a mess. Anybody know what the Order of the Star stuff is about? Lordjim13 00:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Have removed some uncited material, mainly about the unproven (and possibly unprovable) relationship to Knight Templar. Have cited some other material. Also, I have added description of his affiliations with Scotland and his death by Froissart which is corroborated by English accounts.
This man is a difficult subject to write about. Much of the materials about him have not yet been translated in Modern French or English. His and/or his wife's affiliation with the Shroud of Turin produces much material which may or may not be true. One has to be very careful to meet Wiki standards.
This great Knight deserves careful research. Perhaps one of the French or Dutch critics would like to contribute rather than just criticising? Forgot to sign. signing now Mugginsx ( talk) 17:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
(copied in its entirety from editor Effbr's page as of this date) Mugginsx ( talk) 14:43, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
The brass depicts Charny's son (d. 1398), not the man himself.Effbr (talk) 18:05, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Effbr (talk) 23:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC) I Have sent an e-mail to Dr. Kaeuper and given him this link for full information.Mugginsx (talk) 12:31, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I have cited 4 sources that confirm my assertion. If this is not sufficient evidence, I'm not sure what is. I will list them here: 1. [Print] Jean Adhemar's piece on François Gaignières' collection of drawings of monumental tombs in Gazette des beaux-arts, vol 84. 2. [Print] Inventaire des dessins exécutés pour Roger de Gaignières (online: http://www.archive.org/details/inventairedesdes02pariuoft) 3. [Print] Wilson, Ian. The Turin Shroud: Unshrouding the Mystery. 2000. (excerpt viewable here: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/quotes/TSoT/stuc0904.html, third entry down) 4. [Web] http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/n66part5.pdf (from http://www.shroud.com/bstsmain.htm) Of these 4 sources, three are credible, published, print sources and one is a website. The support for your view is, as far as I can tell, based on a single website. The conclusion here seems pretty clear to me. Either all four of my sources have mistakenly identified the effigy, or your source has. I suggest we attempt to involve another editor to gain a third opinion, if you feel that the evidence presented is insufficient. Let me address some other points. I will try to find a citation for my assertion that non-knights had martial effigies. Failing that, I can at least provide examples. I have a scan of the page from Gazette des beaux-arts. I can transfer this to you by whichever method you prefer. Finally, as supporting evidence, please consider my other two notes, a) the date of death inscribed on the brass, b) style of armour depicted. I think the first is pretty strong evidence, the second is of course more tenuous (see my previous comments for rationale). Effbr (talk) 15:19, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Translation of the brass and other information Do you, by any chance, have a translation of the brass of Geoffroi II? Mugginsx (talk) 11:56, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I have looked at your source http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/n66part5.pdf (albeit an internet source; but one that seems to be attributed to Ian Wilson. This, of course further verifies what you said, i.e., this is Geoffroi II. It also adds 3 other interesting pieces of information, 1. that Geoffroi II was also a Knight, 2. The brass was thought to be an authentic likeness of the de Charnys, and 3. Geoffroi "caused great scandal when holding up the Shroud....". I am also enjoying your website immensely. Thankyou for giving me the reference. Have a nice day. Mugginsx ( talk) 14:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Whenever I look for this guy, all I find is The Shroud of Turin, and stuff about his book. Is there a biography about him out there? I want to know more about him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.122.60.146 ( talk) 22:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Geoffroi de Charny article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page is a mess. Anybody know what the Order of the Star stuff is about? Lordjim13 00:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Have removed some uncited material, mainly about the unproven (and possibly unprovable) relationship to Knight Templar. Have cited some other material. Also, I have added description of his affiliations with Scotland and his death by Froissart which is corroborated by English accounts.
This man is a difficult subject to write about. Much of the materials about him have not yet been translated in Modern French or English. His and/or his wife's affiliation with the Shroud of Turin produces much material which may or may not be true. One has to be very careful to meet Wiki standards.
This great Knight deserves careful research. Perhaps one of the French or Dutch critics would like to contribute rather than just criticising? Forgot to sign. signing now Mugginsx ( talk) 17:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
(copied in its entirety from editor Effbr's page as of this date) Mugginsx ( talk) 14:43, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
The brass depicts Charny's son (d. 1398), not the man himself.Effbr (talk) 18:05, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Effbr (talk) 23:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC) I Have sent an e-mail to Dr. Kaeuper and given him this link for full information.Mugginsx (talk) 12:31, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I have cited 4 sources that confirm my assertion. If this is not sufficient evidence, I'm not sure what is. I will list them here: 1. [Print] Jean Adhemar's piece on François Gaignières' collection of drawings of monumental tombs in Gazette des beaux-arts, vol 84. 2. [Print] Inventaire des dessins exécutés pour Roger de Gaignières (online: http://www.archive.org/details/inventairedesdes02pariuoft) 3. [Print] Wilson, Ian. The Turin Shroud: Unshrouding the Mystery. 2000. (excerpt viewable here: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/quotes/TSoT/stuc0904.html, third entry down) 4. [Web] http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/n66part5.pdf (from http://www.shroud.com/bstsmain.htm) Of these 4 sources, three are credible, published, print sources and one is a website. The support for your view is, as far as I can tell, based on a single website. The conclusion here seems pretty clear to me. Either all four of my sources have mistakenly identified the effigy, or your source has. I suggest we attempt to involve another editor to gain a third opinion, if you feel that the evidence presented is insufficient. Let me address some other points. I will try to find a citation for my assertion that non-knights had martial effigies. Failing that, I can at least provide examples. I have a scan of the page from Gazette des beaux-arts. I can transfer this to you by whichever method you prefer. Finally, as supporting evidence, please consider my other two notes, a) the date of death inscribed on the brass, b) style of armour depicted. I think the first is pretty strong evidence, the second is of course more tenuous (see my previous comments for rationale). Effbr (talk) 15:19, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Translation of the brass and other information Do you, by any chance, have a translation of the brass of Geoffroi II? Mugginsx (talk) 11:56, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I have looked at your source http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/n66part5.pdf (albeit an internet source; but one that seems to be attributed to Ian Wilson. This, of course further verifies what you said, i.e., this is Geoffroi II. It also adds 3 other interesting pieces of information, 1. that Geoffroi II was also a Knight, 2. The brass was thought to be an authentic likeness of the de Charnys, and 3. Geoffroi "caused great scandal when holding up the Shroud....". I am also enjoying your website immensely. Thankyou for giving me the reference. Have a nice day. Mugginsx ( talk) 14:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Whenever I look for this guy, all I find is The Shroud of Turin, and stuff about his book. Is there a biography about him out there? I want to know more about him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.122.60.146 ( talk) 22:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)