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If you have a problem with it, I can recreate it under another name. SweetLittleFluffyThing
"Finnish economists Mika Maliranta and Niku Määttänen write that the problem of alternative development indexes is their attempt to combine things that are incommensurable. It is hard to say what they exactly indicate and difficult to make decisions based on them. They can be compared to an indicator that shows the mean of a car's velocity and the amount of fuel left."
The paragraph states a general problem with "alternative development indexes" as perceived by Maliranta and Määttänen. As GDP also combines incommensurable things, the critique also applies to GDP. In the referenced article, there is no justification for the claim, and the section also wanders off topic.
"According to polls, happiness in certain countries has reached its peak already in the 1970s. Maliranta and Määttänen say that people in such countries undoubtedly perceived themselves as being happy already in the 1970s, but if the people of today suddenly should find themselves in that period, most of them would want to return to the present as desperately as many Cubans now attempt to emigrate to the United States regardless of the fact that the distribution of wealth is more equitable in Cuba."
References to polls missing. The factual claim of "most would want" is not supported by any evidence, and has little relevance for GPI. The fictional example is dubious and debatable.
"They add that it indeed seems as if the economy has to grow in order for the people to even remain as happy as they are at present. In Japan, for example, the degree of happiness expressed by the citizens in polls has been declining since the early 1990s, the period when Japan's economic growth stagnated."
The above is the view of the authors expressed in a newspaper opinion piece. The Japan example has problems with the logic of the argument: In this special case, measured happiness, GPI and GDP all have declined. The core of GPI debate is that in those countries where GDP has increased, well-being, measured using GPI, has often declined, and GDP apparently does not measure well development.
As the section is based on debatable opinions of two economists, and does not provide substantial critique on GPI, the section could be removed. 91.152.88.69 ( talk) 14:19, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Which Scandinavian nations are activists? All or just some? Is it possible to be a little more specific? To mention them one by one instead?
There is no explanation of how the various costs are monetized. A marriage is nice, but how much is it worth in $? And what about people who say marriage is not nice? 151.197.244.192 ( talk) 04:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Surely not only in crazy "economics" ... don't the Austrian measures like GPP/ PPR/GPO count? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.167.157 ( talk) 03:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Germany has the highest export in Europe, second largest exporter in the world, especially the renewable energy, while Ireland has the highest export ratio in the developed world and sustainable high growth rate even it is highly developed. 219.151.158.84 ( talk) 08:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
What the heck? People who don't understand economics talk about consumption vs capital accretion as if those where fungible entities. Like, I have 10 units of production and I can consume 8 and invest 2 or I can consume 9 and invest 1. This shows a very naive way of looking at economics, as capital investment might very occasionally by limited by investment funds, but the vast majority of the time, capital investment will be limited by market availability. A more reasonable model is that you actually increase capital production when production for consumption goes up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.72.73 ( talk) 23:15, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I would like to develop the GPI article by adding the main findings and methodological contributions of the Utah study. BerikG ( talk) 04:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC) BerikG
So is there no country list with GPI? All the other econ/development metrics: HDI, HPI, Gini coeff, et al have a section or link for the findings or results, has no one ever bothered to measure nations on a large scale with GPI or is it just not on wiki?
108.55.82.13 (
talk)
16:31, 31 January 2014 (UTC) tunafizzle
The external links section contained a number of inappropriate links (see WP:ELNO). They might make good sources to support article content so I've moved them here:
Joja lozzo 03:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
I would like to work on this page for a college project. There are many more US states that have implemented the GPI along with a few follow-up reports. I'd like to add more details in the US section. Also, as I come across other countries' use of the indicator, I'd like to add these as well. I will add links to appropriate pages for things like how to understand better the reasons why it is hard to value things we don't buy at the store (i.e. life, clean water) and how we find ways to do it. I hope that page exists! Any input is appreciated and constructive criticism accepted. MeetingoftheMinds ( talk) 01:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Anyone able to figure out how to calculate, then increase, one's home/apartment and/or business GPI score? TOO, it would also be helpful for people looking to move to an area without an opportunity so visit the area before signing a rental/lease/vacation/retirement/university/college/dorm room agreement. I don't mean a city, county/prefecture, or small "s" (sub-federal) state/province, I mean a building lot or a particular city block. Eg, flowers are nice, but they decrease available water and don't do anything to stop noise, sight, or air pollution at the balcony of a house condemned to overlook a national road/freeway/throughway/turn-pike. 108.13.17.82 ( talk) 03:46, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
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Quote: "GDP is relatively straightforward to measure compared to GPI. Competing measures like GPI define well-being, which are arguably impossible to define. " So many things wrong with this last sentence. GPI is conceptually a straightforward correction to GDP. An increase in car accidents and a resulting increase in insurance premiums, growth of insurance companies and an increase in repair shops -- and a resulting increase in GDP -- is not a sign of a functional economy. It's a sign of a badly broken society. Destructive activities, which have measurable costs, are NOT productive. Gpi-v2 ( talk) 21:40, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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If you have a problem with it, I can recreate it under another name. SweetLittleFluffyThing
"Finnish economists Mika Maliranta and Niku Määttänen write that the problem of alternative development indexes is their attempt to combine things that are incommensurable. It is hard to say what they exactly indicate and difficult to make decisions based on them. They can be compared to an indicator that shows the mean of a car's velocity and the amount of fuel left."
The paragraph states a general problem with "alternative development indexes" as perceived by Maliranta and Määttänen. As GDP also combines incommensurable things, the critique also applies to GDP. In the referenced article, there is no justification for the claim, and the section also wanders off topic.
"According to polls, happiness in certain countries has reached its peak already in the 1970s. Maliranta and Määttänen say that people in such countries undoubtedly perceived themselves as being happy already in the 1970s, but if the people of today suddenly should find themselves in that period, most of them would want to return to the present as desperately as many Cubans now attempt to emigrate to the United States regardless of the fact that the distribution of wealth is more equitable in Cuba."
References to polls missing. The factual claim of "most would want" is not supported by any evidence, and has little relevance for GPI. The fictional example is dubious and debatable.
"They add that it indeed seems as if the economy has to grow in order for the people to even remain as happy as they are at present. In Japan, for example, the degree of happiness expressed by the citizens in polls has been declining since the early 1990s, the period when Japan's economic growth stagnated."
The above is the view of the authors expressed in a newspaper opinion piece. The Japan example has problems with the logic of the argument: In this special case, measured happiness, GPI and GDP all have declined. The core of GPI debate is that in those countries where GDP has increased, well-being, measured using GPI, has often declined, and GDP apparently does not measure well development.
As the section is based on debatable opinions of two economists, and does not provide substantial critique on GPI, the section could be removed. 91.152.88.69 ( talk) 14:19, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Which Scandinavian nations are activists? All or just some? Is it possible to be a little more specific? To mention them one by one instead?
There is no explanation of how the various costs are monetized. A marriage is nice, but how much is it worth in $? And what about people who say marriage is not nice? 151.197.244.192 ( talk) 04:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Surely not only in crazy "economics" ... don't the Austrian measures like GPP/ PPR/GPO count? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.167.157 ( talk) 03:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Germany has the highest export in Europe, second largest exporter in the world, especially the renewable energy, while Ireland has the highest export ratio in the developed world and sustainable high growth rate even it is highly developed. 219.151.158.84 ( talk) 08:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
What the heck? People who don't understand economics talk about consumption vs capital accretion as if those where fungible entities. Like, I have 10 units of production and I can consume 8 and invest 2 or I can consume 9 and invest 1. This shows a very naive way of looking at economics, as capital investment might very occasionally by limited by investment funds, but the vast majority of the time, capital investment will be limited by market availability. A more reasonable model is that you actually increase capital production when production for consumption goes up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.72.73 ( talk) 23:15, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I would like to develop the GPI article by adding the main findings and methodological contributions of the Utah study. BerikG ( talk) 04:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC) BerikG
So is there no country list with GPI? All the other econ/development metrics: HDI, HPI, Gini coeff, et al have a section or link for the findings or results, has no one ever bothered to measure nations on a large scale with GPI or is it just not on wiki?
108.55.82.13 (
talk)
16:31, 31 January 2014 (UTC) tunafizzle
The external links section contained a number of inappropriate links (see WP:ELNO). They might make good sources to support article content so I've moved them here:
Joja lozzo 03:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
I would like to work on this page for a college project. There are many more US states that have implemented the GPI along with a few follow-up reports. I'd like to add more details in the US section. Also, as I come across other countries' use of the indicator, I'd like to add these as well. I will add links to appropriate pages for things like how to understand better the reasons why it is hard to value things we don't buy at the store (i.e. life, clean water) and how we find ways to do it. I hope that page exists! Any input is appreciated and constructive criticism accepted. MeetingoftheMinds ( talk) 01:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Anyone able to figure out how to calculate, then increase, one's home/apartment and/or business GPI score? TOO, it would also be helpful for people looking to move to an area without an opportunity so visit the area before signing a rental/lease/vacation/retirement/university/college/dorm room agreement. I don't mean a city, county/prefecture, or small "s" (sub-federal) state/province, I mean a building lot or a particular city block. Eg, flowers are nice, but they decrease available water and don't do anything to stop noise, sight, or air pollution at the balcony of a house condemned to overlook a national road/freeway/throughway/turn-pike. 108.13.17.82 ( talk) 03:46, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:39, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Quote: "GDP is relatively straightforward to measure compared to GPI. Competing measures like GPI define well-being, which are arguably impossible to define. " So many things wrong with this last sentence. GPI is conceptually a straightforward correction to GDP. An increase in car accidents and a resulting increase in insurance premiums, growth of insurance companies and an increase in repair shops -- and a resulting increase in GDP -- is not a sign of a functional economy. It's a sign of a badly broken society. Destructive activities, which have measurable costs, are NOT productive. Gpi-v2 ( talk) 21:40, 12 October 2022 (UTC)