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![]() | The contents of the NZLAV page were merged into General Motors LAV on January 13, 2012. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | On 22 February 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from LAV (armoured vehicle) to General Motors LAV. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Reverted 205.206.153.235's edit to an earlier one and left the following message on his/her talk page:
The LAV III article you edited refers to the vehicle used by the Canadian and New Zealand militaries. As such, the information regarding "7 troops" was taken directly from (and referenced to) the Canadian National Defence website, which I invite you to verify. Upon verification, you will notice that the crew is indeed made up of a vehicle commander, a gunner, a driver, and 7 infantry soldiers — not 8. — Dorvaq ( talk) 14:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I've yet to find an official source referring to this vehicle as 'Kodiak'. The name was proposed, but never adopted. I'm removing references to 'Kodiak' until an official source is cited that describes it as such (DnD, other government sources etc.) - Jonathon A H ( talk) 21:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
See: NZLAV
Articles describe the same vehicle. There are no significant differences between the Canadian and New Zealand versions of the LAV III. Unique elements on the New Zealand page can be incorporated into a section for LAV III in NZ service on the LAV III page. - Jonathon A H ( talk) 00:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I have three minor issues with the factual accuracy of the article, one of which I doubt can be fixed. Unfortunately this requires an explanation likely as long the article. Please accept my apologies in advance for the great detail I need to go into over admittedly minor factual inaccuracies. The inaccuracies are in reference to these two sentences in the article and the associated photo.
“One of the vehicles was destroyed by a rocket-propelled grenade.[14] A second vehicle was damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.” First inaccuracy
The Photo titled “Canadian AVGP Grizzly destroyed by an RPG in Darfur” is not a photo of the AVGP claimed to be destroyed by the RPG. The Photo is actually a picture of the AVGP claimed to be “damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.” In fact you can see the Technical vehicle crushed underneath the AVGP in the photo. That should be an easy fix by renaming the photo or using different one.
This of course leads to the next inaccuracy, that being that the AVGP in the photo was actually destroyed not just “damaged” as the article claims. The source [14] does not state that the APC that rammed the technical was damaged; only that it rammed it. It certainly could be assumed that some damage occurred because of the collision; however I do know for a fact that the APC involved in the ramming (pictured) was in fact destroyed not damaged. Again this is supported by the picture. More accurately, the AVGP rammed a Rebel technical vehicle, but was unable to separate itself from the wreckage and was destroyed in the resulting fire.
The third inaccuracy I am less certain of. I suspect that the statement about the RPG may be inaccurate. I do not doubt that the APC was struck with an RPG, I am actually quite certain it was, however I believe the APC was not destroyed by the RPG, but by having been “burned in place” by the belligerent forces during the raid. However there were a lot of incidents and not all may have reported accurately and some reports may have been “merged” so I can’t be certain. Unlike the second inaccuracy above the source used clearly states that it was destroyed by an RPG so without another source not much we can do.
That being said if anyone does have the time and the access to sources here is the basis of my suspicion. I have nothing to go on other then verbal reports that the APC was not manned, but was hit with an RPG, and then burned in place. My suspicion that the RPG was not the cause of its destruction is based on an unrelated RPG strike on another Grizzly in 2006 crewed by a driver and gunner that resulted in no casualties. The Grizzly was still fully functional after the strike i.e. able to move and fight.
I do apologize for not editing the page myself. Although I have never edited a page I would have taken a crack at it was it not for my complete lack of verifiable sources. I am hoping some editors may have access to other more detailed sources that could be use to verify my claims. I have searched the web but was unable to turn up anything that specific and not being an academic with access to military journals I don’t have anything else I can do. I fully realize that what I “know” or “believe” are irrelevant without sources.
Thanks and sorry for all the fuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.107.248 ( talk) 22:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
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Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:03, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
It is listed here that Saudi Arabia will get 900 modified LAV-III vehicles (called LAV6.0). None of the references state that these 900 vehicles are modified LAV-III. In fact, they are not LAV-III/Piranha III chassis at all, and are not called LAV6.0.
However, the Canadian army has purchased 550 LAV6.0 vehicles (as discussed, but not named in paragraph two of the 'Future' section). These are not the same vehicle/chassis that is being delivered to Saudi Arabia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.29.4.43 ( talk) 21:30, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
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I have worked extensively on the LAV Upgrade program. I have never seen the use of "LAV VI". The only terminology I have ever seen is LAV 6.0. In fact, the vehicles themselves have "LAV 6.0" markings. See marketing brochure from GDLS-C http://www.gdlscanada.com/products/LAV/LAV-6.0.html I have gone ahead and change this article to use the proper name. -unsigned comment
I've just gone through and cleaned up all of the LAV articles regarding the design history. As per this page [1], the LAV I ( LAV-25) was an in-house upgrade from the AVGP project. From that point forward, all fo the GM Defense (now GDLS) designs were internally developed. While similar to the MOWAG concepts, they used all North American sourced systems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codesmith ( talk • contribs) 11:37, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
https://www.janes.com/article/82959/saudi-arabia-reportedly-cuts-lav-order
Kind of big news, would someone add this to the article? Jurryaany ( talk) 20:16, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
As the LAV VI is more than simply another variant of the LAV III (it sits closer to a completely new design given the substantial changes to the hull, engine, and suspension), I think it makes sense that a separate section/sub-section in or after the Variants section should be added detailing the LAV VI. It also makes sense to migrate the information contained in the Development section on the LAV VI to the new section. Burnsnet27 ( talk) 23:01, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Perfect. I would suggest starting with paring down the LAV III article first and amending the LAV famiy (parent) accordingly. Then we could make the LAV article flow better all see what we have in terms of length and if we even need to break out something like the LAV II or I into it's own article. What I'd like to avoid is making the parent article essentially nothing but a list (ie have it to be a useful and substantial one-stop shop with readers only needing to go into a separate article to get a "deep dive" on that specific mark). Currently as I've said, all of them except for maybe the LAV III are very superficial but that may change.
As for LAV I, I think it's also worthwhile mentioning that AVGP was the vehicle program that produced the Cougar and the Husky. After a LAV II came in, the LAV obviously picked up the "I" mark number. I.e the Canadian Army Journal article usage. This in the same way as the LAV UP program produced the LAV VI. Certainly pedantic maybe, but it also has the benefit of jiving with the rest of the vehicles in the family and we have sources supporting it. trackratte ( talk) 22:46, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested move request. ( non-admin closure) Colonestarrice ( talk) 11:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
LAV (armoured vehicle) → General Motors LAV – Needs to be disambiguated with the Cadillac Gage LAV-300 and LAV-600, as well as the general class sometimes called the light armored vehicle. WP:AIR/NC and WP:AUTO/NC advise using make/model to disambiguate. Schierbecker ( talk) 21:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 23:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 03:32, 18 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 03:32, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus against moving to proposed target. ( non-admin closure) Natg 19 ( talk) 01:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
General Motors LAV → LAV (armoured vehicle) – Undo this poorly attended RM from 2022. General Motors LAV is a poor title - the LAV was originally built by GMD, not GM, and has been built by General Dynamics for the last 20 years. I'm also unaware of any reliable sources that refer to this vehicle as "General Motors LAV". No objection to LAV (Canadian armoured vehicle) to address the OP's ambiguity concerns. 162 etc. ( talk) 19:32, 17 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Adumbrativus ( talk) 21:26, 27 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 11:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
General Motors Diesel LAV?. Schierbecker ( talk) 15:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the NZLAV page were merged into General Motors LAV on January 13, 2012. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | On 22 February 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from LAV (armoured vehicle) to General Motors LAV. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Reverted 205.206.153.235's edit to an earlier one and left the following message on his/her talk page:
The LAV III article you edited refers to the vehicle used by the Canadian and New Zealand militaries. As such, the information regarding "7 troops" was taken directly from (and referenced to) the Canadian National Defence website, which I invite you to verify. Upon verification, you will notice that the crew is indeed made up of a vehicle commander, a gunner, a driver, and 7 infantry soldiers — not 8. — Dorvaq ( talk) 14:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I've yet to find an official source referring to this vehicle as 'Kodiak'. The name was proposed, but never adopted. I'm removing references to 'Kodiak' until an official source is cited that describes it as such (DnD, other government sources etc.) - Jonathon A H ( talk) 21:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
See: NZLAV
Articles describe the same vehicle. There are no significant differences between the Canadian and New Zealand versions of the LAV III. Unique elements on the New Zealand page can be incorporated into a section for LAV III in NZ service on the LAV III page. - Jonathon A H ( talk) 00:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I have three minor issues with the factual accuracy of the article, one of which I doubt can be fixed. Unfortunately this requires an explanation likely as long the article. Please accept my apologies in advance for the great detail I need to go into over admittedly minor factual inaccuracies. The inaccuracies are in reference to these two sentences in the article and the associated photo.
“One of the vehicles was destroyed by a rocket-propelled grenade.[14] A second vehicle was damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.” First inaccuracy
The Photo titled “Canadian AVGP Grizzly destroyed by an RPG in Darfur” is not a photo of the AVGP claimed to be destroyed by the RPG. The Photo is actually a picture of the AVGP claimed to be “damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.” In fact you can see the Technical vehicle crushed underneath the AVGP in the photo. That should be an easy fix by renaming the photo or using different one.
This of course leads to the next inaccuracy, that being that the AVGP in the photo was actually destroyed not just “damaged” as the article claims. The source [14] does not state that the APC that rammed the technical was damaged; only that it rammed it. It certainly could be assumed that some damage occurred because of the collision; however I do know for a fact that the APC involved in the ramming (pictured) was in fact destroyed not damaged. Again this is supported by the picture. More accurately, the AVGP rammed a Rebel technical vehicle, but was unable to separate itself from the wreckage and was destroyed in the resulting fire.
The third inaccuracy I am less certain of. I suspect that the statement about the RPG may be inaccurate. I do not doubt that the APC was struck with an RPG, I am actually quite certain it was, however I believe the APC was not destroyed by the RPG, but by having been “burned in place” by the belligerent forces during the raid. However there were a lot of incidents and not all may have reported accurately and some reports may have been “merged” so I can’t be certain. Unlike the second inaccuracy above the source used clearly states that it was destroyed by an RPG so without another source not much we can do.
That being said if anyone does have the time and the access to sources here is the basis of my suspicion. I have nothing to go on other then verbal reports that the APC was not manned, but was hit with an RPG, and then burned in place. My suspicion that the RPG was not the cause of its destruction is based on an unrelated RPG strike on another Grizzly in 2006 crewed by a driver and gunner that resulted in no casualties. The Grizzly was still fully functional after the strike i.e. able to move and fight.
I do apologize for not editing the page myself. Although I have never edited a page I would have taken a crack at it was it not for my complete lack of verifiable sources. I am hoping some editors may have access to other more detailed sources that could be use to verify my claims. I have searched the web but was unable to turn up anything that specific and not being an academic with access to military journals I don’t have anything else I can do. I fully realize that what I “know” or “believe” are irrelevant without sources.
Thanks and sorry for all the fuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.107.248 ( talk) 22:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
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Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:03, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
It is listed here that Saudi Arabia will get 900 modified LAV-III vehicles (called LAV6.0). None of the references state that these 900 vehicles are modified LAV-III. In fact, they are not LAV-III/Piranha III chassis at all, and are not called LAV6.0.
However, the Canadian army has purchased 550 LAV6.0 vehicles (as discussed, but not named in paragraph two of the 'Future' section). These are not the same vehicle/chassis that is being delivered to Saudi Arabia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.29.4.43 ( talk) 21:30, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
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I have worked extensively on the LAV Upgrade program. I have never seen the use of "LAV VI". The only terminology I have ever seen is LAV 6.0. In fact, the vehicles themselves have "LAV 6.0" markings. See marketing brochure from GDLS-C http://www.gdlscanada.com/products/LAV/LAV-6.0.html I have gone ahead and change this article to use the proper name. -unsigned comment
I've just gone through and cleaned up all of the LAV articles regarding the design history. As per this page [1], the LAV I ( LAV-25) was an in-house upgrade from the AVGP project. From that point forward, all fo the GM Defense (now GDLS) designs were internally developed. While similar to the MOWAG concepts, they used all North American sourced systems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codesmith ( talk • contribs) 11:37, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
https://www.janes.com/article/82959/saudi-arabia-reportedly-cuts-lav-order
Kind of big news, would someone add this to the article? Jurryaany ( talk) 20:16, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
As the LAV VI is more than simply another variant of the LAV III (it sits closer to a completely new design given the substantial changes to the hull, engine, and suspension), I think it makes sense that a separate section/sub-section in or after the Variants section should be added detailing the LAV VI. It also makes sense to migrate the information contained in the Development section on the LAV VI to the new section. Burnsnet27 ( talk) 23:01, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Perfect. I would suggest starting with paring down the LAV III article first and amending the LAV famiy (parent) accordingly. Then we could make the LAV article flow better all see what we have in terms of length and if we even need to break out something like the LAV II or I into it's own article. What I'd like to avoid is making the parent article essentially nothing but a list (ie have it to be a useful and substantial one-stop shop with readers only needing to go into a separate article to get a "deep dive" on that specific mark). Currently as I've said, all of them except for maybe the LAV III are very superficial but that may change.
As for LAV I, I think it's also worthwhile mentioning that AVGP was the vehicle program that produced the Cougar and the Husky. After a LAV II came in, the LAV obviously picked up the "I" mark number. I.e the Canadian Army Journal article usage. This in the same way as the LAV UP program produced the LAV VI. Certainly pedantic maybe, but it also has the benefit of jiving with the rest of the vehicles in the family and we have sources supporting it. trackratte ( talk) 22:46, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested move request. ( non-admin closure) Colonestarrice ( talk) 11:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
LAV (armoured vehicle) → General Motors LAV – Needs to be disambiguated with the Cadillac Gage LAV-300 and LAV-600, as well as the general class sometimes called the light armored vehicle. WP:AIR/NC and WP:AUTO/NC advise using make/model to disambiguate. Schierbecker ( talk) 21:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 23:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 03:32, 18 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 03:32, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus against moving to proposed target. ( non-admin closure) Natg 19 ( talk) 01:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
General Motors LAV → LAV (armoured vehicle) – Undo this poorly attended RM from 2022. General Motors LAV is a poor title - the LAV was originally built by GMD, not GM, and has been built by General Dynamics for the last 20 years. I'm also unaware of any reliable sources that refer to this vehicle as "General Motors LAV". No objection to LAV (Canadian armoured vehicle) to address the OP's ambiguity concerns. 162 etc. ( talk) 19:32, 17 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Adumbrativus ( talk) 21:26, 27 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 11:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
General Motors Diesel LAV?. Schierbecker ( talk) 15:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)