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I was more than a little concerned when I looked at this page and discovered that a summary of the 182nd Annual General Conference was put on it. My concern lies in the fact that the so-called summary might not be accurate, only coming from one editor. So, my question is, does this section even need to exist? If it does, what can be done to make it more encyclopedic? Please post here with comments. I am leaving this section in the article until some consensus is reached about including it. Thanks in advance for the feedback and discussion. -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 16:15, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
==182nd Annual General Conference==
The 182nd
General Conference of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints took place from March 24, 2012-April 1, 2012, and comprises 6 sessions: General Young Women Meeting (March 24), Saturday Morning Session (March 31), Saturday Afternoon Session (March 31), Priesthood Session (March 31), Sunday Morning Session (April 1), and Sunday Afternoon Session (April 1).
Archives are available in multiple formats and languages.
=== Changes in Leadership ===
As part of the sustaining of church officers in the Saturday Afternoon Session, the
Presiding Bishopric and General
Relief Society Presidency were released and replacements were called.
[1]
The Presiding Bishopric formerly consisted of H. David Burton, Presiding Bishop; Richard C. Edgley, First Counselor; and Keith B. McMullin, Second Counselor; and now consists of Gary E. Stevenson, Presiding Bishop; Gérald Caussé, First Counselor; and Dean M. Davies, Second Counselor.
The General Relief Society Presidency formerly consisted of Julie B. Beck, President; Silvia H. Allred, First Counselor; and Barbara Thompson, Second Counselor; and now consists of Linda K. Burton, General President; Carole M. Stephens First Counselor; and Linda S. Reeves, Second Counselor.
Multiple other calls and releases were made, with the calling of Larry EchoHawk to the First Quorum of the Seventy making headlines. A Pawnee, prominent Idaho Democrat, and head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the Obama administration, he is expected to resign his post in order to assume new church responsibilities. [2]
=== Teachings ===
==== General Young Women Session ====
Ann M. Dibb spoke about ___ followed by
Mary N. Cook, speaking about ___. A church-produced video,
Arise to the Mountain was shown, followed by
Elaine S. Dalton, who spoke about ___ and President
Thomas S. Monson who encouraged ___.
==== Saturday Morning Session ====
President
Thomas S. Monson provided the opening message, followed by President
Boyd K. Packer who discussed the family as the fundamental unit of society
[3] and Cheryl Esplin who discussed parental responsibilities toward children. These were followed by Elder
Donald L. Hallstrom, who spoke about the intimate intertwining of church and gospel and Elder
Paul E. Koelliker who spoke about full-time missionary service. Elder
Dallin H. Oaks, who spoke about sacrifices offered in similitude of Christ's sacrifice. The meeting concluded with President
Henry B. Eyring, who spoke about ___.
==== Saturday Afternoon Session ====
President
Dieter F. Uchtdorf performed the Sustaining of Church Officers, followed by the Church Auditing Department Report for 2011, presented by Robert W. Cantwell. The Church Statistical Report for 2011 was then presented by Brook P. Hales. Then Elder
Jeffrey R. Holland spoke about the
Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard and encouraged rejoicing in mercies received by others, followed by Elder
Robert D. Hales, who spoke about ___. Elder
David S. Baxter addressed the single parents in the church, assuring them that they are not "second class citizens". Elder
Ulisses Soares spoke about ___, Elder Quentin L. Cook spoke about ___ and the concluding speaker was Elder
Richard G. Scott who spoke about his personal practices for receiving divine revelation and encouraged all to seek revelation.
==== Priesthood Session ====
Elder
David A. Bednar opened the session with a personal story of his father's conversion and a plea that the men of the church be active in fulfilling their
home teaching and other priesthood duties. He was followed by Bishop
Richard C. Edgley, who spoke about achieving "real growth" for the church, including by bringing less-active members back into the church, and
Adrián Ochoa, who spoke to Young Men about exercising their priesthood by actively promoting righteousness. President
Dieter F. Uchtdorf spoke about his experiences being called as a Deacon's Quorum President and as a Seventy and encouraged faithfulness to the trust placed in priesthood holders, followed by President
Henry B. Eyring who spoke about learning from the successes of
Lehi and President
Thomas S. Monson who shared quotations from modern day prophets defining
priesthood power and duty, emphasizing that true joy comes from fulfilling duty.
==== Sunday Morning Session ====
President
Dieter F. Uchtdorf spoke of conflicts between siblings, encouraging forgiveness, repentance, and mercy (continuing a theme from one of his
prior talks) for both ourselves and the begrudged, saying simply of ill-will "Stop it". Then Elder
Russell M. Nelson spoke, including his
wonderment in the design of the physical body in a theme of 'Glory to God'. Then
Ronald A. Rasband spoke of a recent family birth of a child with a chromosomal deletion, addressing typical questions of 'how could a merciful God allow this to happen?' and responding with Christ's explanation: "that the works of God should be made manifest" (
John 9: 3) and expressing the sentiment for those that would help that 'Let me know if I can do something to help' "is really no help at all".
Julie B. Beck then discussed the mission of Relief Society and its future. Elder
D. Todd Christofferson explained the origin of LDS doctrine and differing levels of authority within LDS leadership to define doctrine, always to be confirmed by individual revelation in the membership of the Church. President
Thomas S. Monson was the concluding speaker, discussed the way that the inevitability of death draws us back to family responsibilities: family is what matters when temporary accomplishments are seen in the light of death.
==== Sunday Afternoon Session ====
L. Tom Perry spoke of the Book of Mormon.
M. Russell Ballard spoke of societal ills, including income inequality and broken homes, noting that they are correlated, and expressing his conviction that religious observance and family values are the reason for improved financial outcomes. O. Vincent Haleck spoke of the need for vision as well as action to bring about that vision.
Larry Y. Wilson spoke of the need to avoid compulsion in leadership, whether at home or at church.
David F. Evans spoke of the need to "natually and normally share the gospel". Paul P. Pieper spoke about personal experience with divinity and preserving its holiness.
Neil L. Anderson spoke of the importance of discipleship and recounted the story of the miraculous preservation of a family through the Haiti earthquake.
Thomas S. Monson was the concluding speaker.
So then, the question arises, what should be done about this content? It seems pointless to include it, as such a section has never been in the article in the past. So what should be done about this? What concerns me the most is that it was just one editor's perspective on it. So this will have to be reedited if it is to be reincluded in the article. I'd be okay leaving it out or putting it in. Whatever the consensus decides is fine with me. -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 22:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I consider a TALK page to be an extension of a WP Article; readers can read and learn more here. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 03:29, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
References
Not to be included in the Article, but for your interest, here are my notes [1] which I include to assist other WP editors as they look to improve this article on General Conference (LDS Church). Enjoy, Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 11:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
The Church recently announced that it would broadcast the Priesthood Session of General Conference live on LDS.org and on BYU-TV. For verification of this fact, please see this article. I feel this information should be included in this article, but I'm not sure where or how to include it. Thoughts? Thanks. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Actually, it is more important than you may realize and indicate since the first paragraph of the article herein says "one exclusively for male priesthood holders" but now it is on the public airwaves. Another thing that is monumental (to members) is that the Womens Conference included all LDS women age eight and older. Focus in their conference last weekend was on youth and the responsibility of Moms and leaders to them—among other topics of the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary (for the youngest). Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 03:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I'll be adding here statistics for Wikipedia editors to edit and improve the Article here, as deemed appropriate. Of high interest is (1) the growth of the Church; (2) International missionary and humanitarian work; (3) new temples, like in Rome; (4) new church leaders; (5) Other.
People worldwide can watch the broadcasts of conference sessions at: https://www.lds.org
Wikipedia editors can validate, authenticate, and reference facts from http://www.MormonNewsroom.org/
Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 13:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Here are the statistics (ending December 31, 2013) reported in the 184th General (World) Conference: The number of stakes is 3,050 with 405 missions; 571 districts (within a mission but not big enough to be a stake, yet); 29,253 wards and branches, (a branch is not big enough to be a ward, yet). Total membership is 15,082,028 [adding up the files in the membership computer database. The prophet called it 15million.] The number of children of record added in 2013 was 115,486; and the number of convert baptisms was 282,945 during the year. As of December 31, there were 83,035 fulltime missionaries [young elders, young sister missionaries, and seniors] 34,032 church service missionaries “serving throughout the Church.” One temple in Honduras was dedicated during 2013, bring the total of operating temples up to 141 at the end of the year.
The statistical report was preceded by the Audit Report, “to give reasonable assurance” of funds received and disbursed in the year 2013. — Filling the needs to (1) budget, (2) avoid debt, and (3) plan ahead to save against time of need, same advice to members. [Short and sweet.] — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 23:47, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
AsteriskStarSplat recently reverted a change asserting that the general women's meeting held the week before General Conference was not part of General Conference itself and was not included in the Conference Report or the Ensign. Oh, really? I would invite him to consult Ensign. If he were to look at pp. 116-128, he would see that the General Women's Meeting is included in the Ensign. A further glance at the "Conference Summary" on page 3 would inform him that the General Women's Meeting is just another session of conference like any others. Just because it is not considered one of the five "general" sessions doesn't make it any less a part of conference. A glance at the page for the April 2014 General Conference on the Church's website would clue him in on the fact that, according to the website, the General Women's Meeting is as much a part of Conference as any other session. Also, in the DVDs of Conference (I happen to have a copy, so I know this for a fact), the General Women's Meeting appears on a disc with the Sunday Afternoon Session. Why would they include a meeting that is not part of conference with official conference proceedings? I would encourage AsteriskStarSplat to do his research before making claims when the proof is not on his side. Anyone else want to uphold this claim? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 23:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since General conference went from three days (Fri-Sun) to two (Sat & Sun), the opening session of conference is Saturday morning. For a recent example, please see: Ensign, May 2014. The first talk, which opened the conference, was by Thomas S. Monson, titled "Welcome to Conference" and was given on Saturday morning; the last Conference talk was also by Monson, titled: "Until We Meet Again" and was given in the second Sunday session, the last of five sessions. I consider Monson as a reliable expert on when Conference begins and ends. While Rosemary M. Wixom, Bonnie L. Oscarson, Linda K. Burton, and Henry B. Eyring's talks from the General Womens meeting a week previously are then included in that edition of the Ensign, it is clear that it is not as part of Conference itself, but as an adjunct to it, just as the now discontinued June Conference was. — Asterisk * Splat → 23:21, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The 170th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints convened in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday, April 1, 2000 at 10 A.M. The general sessions of the conference were held at 10:00 A.M. and 2:00 P.M. on Saturday and Sunday, April 1 and 2, 2000. The general priesthood session was held on Saturday, April 1 at 6:00 P.M.It it clear that there are five sessions, four general sessions, and one priesthood session in this example. I'll find more recent examples if needed, but this was the easiest one to find. — Asterisk * Splat → 00:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
The 181st Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints convened in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 10 A.M. The general sessions of the conference were held at 10:00 A.M. and 2:00 P.M. on Saturday and Sunday, April 2 and 3, 2011. The general priesthood session was held on Saturday, April 2 at 6:00 P.M.Still five sessions, four general sessions, and one priesthood session in this example. — Asterisk * Splat → 00:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) ...for more information, and confirmation. —
Asterisk
*
Splat
→
01:08, 11 September 2014 (UTC)The First Presidency of the Church announced November 1 that beginning in 2014, a semiannual general women's meeting will replace the general Relief Society and general Young Women meetings held annually since 1993. The general women's meeting will be held the Saturday before each general conference and will be conducted by the general presidencies of the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary organizations. [...] Since 1993, general meetings have been held for the Relief Society and the Young Women in September and March, respectively. The meetings have included addresses from a member of the First Presidency and all three members of the respective auxiliary general presidency. From 1984 to 1993, a general meeting was held for all women and young women.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help) (emphasis mine). It couldn't be held before general conference if it was part of it. —
Asterisk
*
Splat
→
01:45, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Each April and October, members of the Church throughout the world assemble in Salt Lake City, Utah, for two days of meetings called General Conference. [...] The April conferences of the Church are called annual conferences; those in October, semiannual conferences. Current practice includes four two-hour general sessions on Saturday and Sunday, with a special priesthood session Saturday night carried by satellite to thousands of priesthood bearers throughout the world. Prior to 1977, the conferences met for three days.
April 1977: the first two-day general conference, replacing the former three-day general conference.(Note that this article also lists all conferences between 6 April 1830 and 4–5 October 1980)
General conferences are conducted each April and October and comprise five two-hour meetings held over two days. The April meetings are called annual conferences and those in October, semiannual.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)General conferences are conducted each April and October and comprise five two-hour meetings held over two days. The April meetings are called annual conferences and those in October, semiannual. The sessions on Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon are open to everyone, while a session on Saturday evening is for Latter-day Saint men and young men who hold the priesthood.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)Five sessions of the conference will be held Saturday and Sunday, 5-6 April 2014, in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)Proceedings of the 184th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will unfold from the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday and Sunday, 5-6 April 2014. [...] General conferences are conducted by the Church each April and October and comprise five two-hour meetings held over two days.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)President Monson presided at the conference and spoke in four of the five sessions. His counselors in the First Presidency, President Henry B. Eyring and President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, took turns conducting the sessions. In the opening session of conference Saturday morning, President Monson spoke of the recent Gilbert Arizona Temple dedication and the upcoming Fort Lauderdale Florida Temple dedication.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)Following is the text of remarks delivered by President Thomas S. Monson as he opened the 184th Annual General Conference, which convened in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City on Saturday morning, April 5, 2014.
Following is the full text of the message President Thomas S. Monson delivered as he brought to a close the 184th Annual General Conference of the Church on Sunday, April 6, 2014.
LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson did not announce any new temples on Saturday morning during the opening session of the 184th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
All members of the Church are invited to participate in the 184th Semiannual General Conference of the Church, which will convene in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday and Sunday, October 4 and 5, 2014, with general sessions each day at 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. mountain daylight time (MDT), and the general priesthood meeting on Saturday, October 4, 2014, at 6:00 p.m. MDT.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)The 184th Semiannual General Conference will be held on Saturday and Sunday, October 4 and 5, 2014, with general sessions each day at 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. mountain daylight time (MDT), and the general priesthood meeting on Saturday, October 4, 2014, at 6:00 p.m. MDT.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)The new policy will be implemented at the next conference, Oct. 4 and 5.
I see your point. Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up. Again, my apologies if I was being unduly stubborn, discourteous, or disagreeable in my responses in regards to this situation. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 12:43, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
I see. Thanks for your explanation and apology. As evidenced by my conduct in this case, I don't respond well when someone is making a claim that they refuse to prove. I also don't react well when my being in error on a situation is manifested and pointed out. I should have remembered the catchphrase that used to be on my signature here on Wikipedia: "We can disagree without being disagreeable." I didn't, and for that misconduct, I apologize. I am grateful that the storm seems to have blown over and that we were able to come to an agreement on this issue. That's all that I was hoping for. I will endeavor to conduct myself in a better way next time. Thanks to all who participated in this discussion. As far as I'm concerned, this matter can be closed with honor. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:28, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Funny you should mention that. I was going to point that out myself. Now we have an official statement validating what I've been claiming all along. No, I didn't know something no one else knew. But I did maintain that since the general women's meeting and its predecessors (the General Relief Society and General Young Women's Meetings) were contained in the Ensign magazine that they were part of conference. Now that view has been validated by a member of the First Presidency. Short of a declaration by Thomas S. Monson, that's about as official a statement on how the brethren view this general women's meeting as I've ever heard. So, based upon President Uchtdorf's statement, once the transcript of his talk becomes available, can we cite it to prove that there are six general sessions for general conference? Can we all agree to that now, in light of this official statement by President Uchtdorf? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 19:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Well, it's obvious I'm in the minority here. I still say I wouldn't see a problem citing Uchtdorf's address or the Salt Lake Tribune article about it as proof that there are six sessions, but I understand your desire for caution. In that case, we will wait and see what they say this weekend during what is usually considered the "traditional" sessions of conference, and see how they word things. But we may not have to wait long to find out. If they refer to the Saturday Morning Session as the Second Geenral Session of the 184th Semiannual General Conference, we'll have our answer. In the meantime, we wait. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 21:50, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I would gladly acknowledge the ambiguity if I saw it. Unfortunately, I don't see it that way. How many different ways can you interpret Uchtdorf's words as cited above? The way I see it, he is one of the three "presiding high priests" whose words, when spoken under the influence of the Spirit and with the approval of the prophet (both of which he had) qualify as the revealed word of the Lord as laid out in the revelations. The presiding high priests have no hand whatsoever in assembling the notices that appear on the website advertising general conference, and thus we cannot say at face value that Uchtdorf's words and the notice from the Church are to be held at the same level, or are to be entitled to the same consideration. One has to be more authoritative than the other. And of the two, I would trust Uchtdorf's words more than a notice put together that did not expressly have the voice and approval of the prophet of God. What I don't understand is why you are trying so vigorously to change my mind. I myself said I would be content to wait on changing the article until we have secondary sources from "general conference weekend" that will settle the debate once and for all. Until that time, further discussion is pointless. It is plain that I will never convince you to take Uchtdorf's words for the truth. And you will never convince me that "other sources" provide a "conflicting opinion" on the issue. Better to leave the issue alone unless and until sources pertaining to the "official general conference weekend" settle the debate once and for all. Fair enough? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 10:35, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
I repeat, what is so wrong about my holding on to a certain belief unless and until sources say otherwise? The general conference this weeekend will surely settle the debate once and for all, so continued discussion on the matter is pointless, as I won't be convinced I'm wrong unless and until they refer to the sessions in the traditional way. In the meantime, I am willing to take Uchtdorf's words for what I believe they are: a clear statement that the way the brethren view general conference from now on will be different. I will be sure to watch all the sessions of general conference live, because, living in Utah, I am not affected by any weird time differences. And you can bet that I will post the results of how they refer to the sessions (whether I'm right or wrong) as soon after it's ascertained as I can. I personally think that those who aren't willing to accept Uchtdorf's words as binding may be in for a surprise. But we will just have to wait and see. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:01, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
We know where we're at. You aren't convinced by Uchtdorf's statement that the Women's Meeting is officially part of General Conference now and are more swayed by a news release from the Church claiming that General Conference only comprises two days. On the other hand, I am fully convinced by Uchtdorf's statement that the brethren now view the Women's Meeting as part of General Conference, whatever their attitude regarding it may have been in the past, and I am not swayed by the news release which the leading brethren had no part in composing or posting online. By Saturday, we will have more information and then I will either be pleased to hear you all acknowledge I was right in my stance or else be convinced that your arguments have more merit than I originally gave them credit for and be thus in a position to admit I am wrong. Until that time, there is likely no need to rehash this issue over and over again, unless another editor has something new to contribute to the conversation. Unless that is the case, I suggest we let this topic rest until this weekend when the truth will resolve this issue one way or the other. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:16, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, then, source-wise, we have one source which states that the Women's Meeting is the opening session of general conference, and one source which states that the general conference will comprise the traditional two days. What more is there? Am I overlooking something? If I am, please point it out to me. Never let it be said that I overlooked a source that shed light on an obscure matter. While other users have been involved in this discussion, I notice that it's mainly been you and me going back and forth for most of the discussion, with other users occasionally chipping in their two cents. I am more than happy to leave it to other users to define their positions, but they don't seem to be doing it. And if you're not "entirely happy" with the way I've characterized your viewpoint, then perhaps you need to clarify so I understand you better and don't mistakenly characterize your viewpoint as something it's not. Because all I've been hearing from you is that "there's a press release from the Church saying that General Conference will be held on October 4-5." You seem unwilling to acknowledge Uchtdorf's words as authoritative, though his status as one of the three "presiding high priests" makes his words so. I'm pretty sure that Uchtdorf wouldn't have said what he said if clarification or further explanation of this point wasn't going to be given in general conference this weekend. At any rate, you still haven't answered my question. Why are you so desperate to convert me to your POV? I don't see where this difference of opinion is doing any harm. All it is doing is prolonging a conversation pointlessly, as neither of us will gain or lose any ground by continuing to discuss this issue. Our best course of action is to wait and see if and when something is said during what is considered the "actual" general conference weekend. Until that time, can't we let this subject rest? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 10:46, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
So—any developments that might need to be discussed on this post-conference? I didn't watch, so I don't have any original research-y information, but I've seen this SL Trib report, which just says: "Though Dieter F. Uchtdorf, second counselor in the governing First Presidency, had said last Saturday’s general women’s meeting was the first session of the semiannual conference, both Henry B. Eyring, Monson’s first counselor, and Bonnie Oscarson, president of the Young Women’s organization (for girls ages 12 to 17), in her invocation, called Saturday morning’s gathering 'the first session.'" Based on this, I'd be inclined to hold to my previous position that we're in a state of ambiguity, with conflicting statements that can be sourced, and now with the Tribune explicitly acknowledging the conflict. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:03, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
At the meeting in September, it was announced that the General Women's Meeting was the first session of the semiannual general conference.
President Monson presided at the conference and spoke in four of the five sessions..
Coming late to this discussion, but glad for the research and input that has already taken place. I did notice that there was nothing out of the ordinary in the way they referred to the sessions, but I did notice one thing that would tend to make me still want to cite Uchtdorf's statement in the article: the brother who gave the invocation at the priesthood session referred to it as "the fourth session" of conference. Yet counting the standard way, there were only three. For the priesthood session to make four, he must have been alluding to the women's conference as a session. My advice is to cite Uchtdorf's statement as it is, but still say in the article that general conference has five sessions. Then we are acknowledging that the women's conference is counted as a session, but we still allow for the standard. At least, that's what I would do. Although the fact that the priesthood session was referred to by one person as "the fourth session" of general conference" and that wasn't correct should be noted somehow as well. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 03:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
So what do we do, just ignore the fact that Uchtdorf ever made that statement? I believe the readers are entitled to know of this statement, if they don't already. He is one of the three presiding high priests and as such spoke for the entire First Presidency in what he said. Why that failed to have an impact on the way the other sessions of conference were referred to, I don't know. But one thing I do know. The statement has been made, and we have other sources that, while not directly countering it, seem to imply the opposite. So why not cite both and let the intelligent reader sort it out for themselves? This would eliminate the concerns of WP:WEIGHT by neither ignoring it nor featuring it solely. Of course, if the consensus would rather not include either source, I will, as always, abide by that consensus decision. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 08:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that great research. So there is an ambiguity in secondary sources. Given that, I imagine the Church will issue an official statement at some point, either ratifying and clarifying Uchtdorf's comment or else providing a statement that places the quotation in the proper context. Oh, by the way, Carlson's "statement" was made during the invocation of the priesthood session, so unless it was edited out in the video of the priesthood session, it still exists. Just viewed the video of it, and it has been edited out. Weird. Given the ambiguity, I would either advocate mentioning the ambiguity of sources somehow in the article or else ignoring the issue altogether unless and until the Church comes out with an official statement in future, as I said above. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:29, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
How many different ways can Uchtdorf's comments be interpreted? The meaning seems to be pretty clear: Uchtdorf was indicating that the Women's Meeting was part of general conference. And now we have the so-called "conflicting sources" that say otherwise. I will admit that they are compelling, but i do not find them to be as compelling or binding or official as Uchtdorf's statement. As I've said until I'm blue in the face, Uchtdorf is not just some random person making a statement. He is one of the "three presiding high priests" who has the promise of the Lord that what he says under the inspiration of the Spirit and the direction of the prophet is "the word of the Lord." The statement still appears in the transcript of Uchtdorf's talk. It would be foolhardy and unjust to ignore it or pretend he didn't say it. And I don't believe we "settled" anything. I had proposed either including Uchtdorf's statement and noting the ambiguity or else leaving it alone unless and until we have further information, and I'm not getting a straight answer from you about your opinion regarding this proposal. You're just repeating what you've said previously, as if you're still trying to convince me to ignore or overlook Uchtdorf's statement. Well, I'm sorry. I can't do that. I take Uchtdorf's statement for what it is, nothing more, nothing less. I know there is ambiguity in sources at the moment, and I'm sorry about that. But unless and until something happens to shed greater light on this issue one way or the other (by either repudiating Uchtdorf's statement or endorsing it), I have to take it for what it is. I would suggest quoting Uchtdorf's statement and noting the ambiguity. But that's just my opinion regarding what we should do. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:40, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
So that's it, then? We just ignore Uchtdorf's statement altogether? It doesn't matter if Uchtdorf is "the most junior" of the "three presiding high priests"; as he himself stated after making the statement in question, he was asked by President Monson to represent the First Presidency at that meeting. So that to me indicates that he had President Monson's approval to make that statement. The fact that it has still not been eliminated, even from the Ensign and Liahona offiicial proceedings of conference says that his statement should carry some weight and should not be ignored. I am fine if we want to hold off on including Uchtdorf's statement until the Church clarifies it, but I don't think we should just drop the matter and say that "no change" will be made to the article, even if the Church does clarify the issue. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 01:04, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
When recently doing the research on the beginning conference session, I ran across the following potential references, that have interesting material that might be used to add to the article:
Thanks. — Asterisk * Splat → 21:19, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Still waiting for clarification on how you intend these sources to be used, Asterisk. Thanks in advance for your response. Look forward to using these sources to improve the article, once we know what you have in mind. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 07:23, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry you feel that way. I want you to know that I hold no animosity towards you or anyone else who had an opposing view from mine in the previous discussion. I also want to note that disagreements, even intense ones, often crop up on Wikipedia because of differences of opinion and perspective. The key is to try and disagree without being disagreeable. If I crossed a line in that regard, I apologize. It appears that the so-called conflict has been resolved for the moment. Or at least, the discussion has been closed. If you are unable or unwilling to discuss how these sources might potentially be used in this article, perhaps someone else might feel differently. So I am throwing this out to the general public: What are your thoughts on Asterisk's cited sources, and how might we use them in the article? Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Asterisk, now that it seems the Church has resolved the issue discussed above and below this topic to the satisfaction of all concerned (see my comment below), do you think you'd feel up to discussing how and in what manner you hoped the cited sources could be used in the article? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:51, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
<incredulous> Ok, so are Church employees reading this talk page? </incredulous> This is getting even more weird than it was ...
We have our answer, finally, after we reached the completely opposite conclusion. I'm honestly a little very stunned. —
Asterisk
*
Splat
→
23:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
I applaud the Church's clarification of this issue. I will say I do feel we could have avoided a lot of misunderstandings and contention if we'd taken Uchtdorf's words as official enough. I recognize, however, that until this "official" word came down, the evidence suggesting it was not part of conference was compelling. I will admit, I was still blown away that this clarification came sooner than the next general conference. And things would have been cleared up so much sooner if I had paid attention to how the meeting was termed in the PDF version of the November Ensign. There the answer was, right in plain sight in three places: in the table of contents, on the conference summary page, and on the page where addresses from the session were featured. I'm sorry I missed that. At any rate, it's official now. And now this issue can be put to rest for good. I again apologize if I was unduly difficult in pushing my POV without anything but Uchtdorf's words to back me up. I hope, Asterisk, that now that the issue is resolved once and for all, you will feel up to explaining what you thought the sources you mentioned in an earlier topic could contribute to this article. My thanks to Adjwilley for making this change so promptly after the proper sources verified the truth. As far as the issue of a disagreement at top levels of Church government, I suppose it's possible. Differences of opinion have been known to happen at Church headquarters. And it has usually only been once the prophet has officially decided the matter that such differences are put aside. However, I refuse to believe that Uchtdorf would have made such a game-changing statement without some consent from President Monson. As I understand it, the text of all conference talks has to be approved by the president of the Church before they are given in general conference. This is to ensure that what is said is truly "scripture . . .the will of the Lord, . . the mind of the Lord, . . the word of the Lord, . . the voice of the Lord and the power of God unto salvation." (D&C 68:4) How else could the prophet state with confidence that "They have sought heaven’s help concerning the messages which they will present, and they have felt inspiration regarding what will be said."? Each time he is able to state this unequivocally. I know Uchtdorf's talk in question was given before this guarantee was offered last conference, but I still imagine that President Monson has some say in what is said in general conference. At any rate, I've rambled long enough. What I'm trying to say is, I'm glad the Church has spoken out and resolved this issue now. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:44, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
I can easily believe that we spent more time discussing this than the brethren did. However it happened, I'm glad that we didn't have to wait too long for the Church to officially address this issue. I never said it was necessary for the prophet to say that general conference talks were inspired. What I said was that when he does say that, he endorses all the talks that will be given/have been given. So that should have been our first clue that Uchtdorf wasn't just being inclusive or welcoming. It should have been an indication to us that Uchtdorf likely had the approval of Monson to say what he did. The ambiguity that followed has now been addressed, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction. And now the issue can be put to bed, I hope. Asterisk, this got lost in the ensuing conversation, but I still would like to know if you now feel up to discussing how to use the sources you presented in the other topic. I look forward to the feedback and discussion that will take place regarding that subject. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 04:20, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
I have read them. What isn't clear to me is how Asterisk intended to use these sources within the article. However, any further comments about that issue should be under that topic, so I will post a comment there in a minute. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 07:34, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
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Hello again, everyone! I wanted to pose a couple of questions here. Firstly, given the statement by Church President Russell M. Nelson that the upcoming General Conference would be a bicentennial celebration of important events of the restoration and would be "unlike any previous General Conference", the subsequent announcement about the Saturday evening session for all male and female members ages 11 and up, and the subsequent announcements of changes resulting from COVID-19, shouldn't all of that be mentioned in this article? If we decide to do so, what is the best way to do that? Would we start an in-article section specific to the upcoming conference? Would it be best to include information about it in bits and pieces throughout the article? Are there any other specific things we should keep in mind while including this content in the article? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 02:38, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
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I was more than a little concerned when I looked at this page and discovered that a summary of the 182nd Annual General Conference was put on it. My concern lies in the fact that the so-called summary might not be accurate, only coming from one editor. So, my question is, does this section even need to exist? If it does, what can be done to make it more encyclopedic? Please post here with comments. I am leaving this section in the article until some consensus is reached about including it. Thanks in advance for the feedback and discussion. -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 16:15, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
==182nd Annual General Conference==
The 182nd
General Conference of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints took place from March 24, 2012-April 1, 2012, and comprises 6 sessions: General Young Women Meeting (March 24), Saturday Morning Session (March 31), Saturday Afternoon Session (March 31), Priesthood Session (March 31), Sunday Morning Session (April 1), and Sunday Afternoon Session (April 1).
Archives are available in multiple formats and languages.
=== Changes in Leadership ===
As part of the sustaining of church officers in the Saturday Afternoon Session, the
Presiding Bishopric and General
Relief Society Presidency were released and replacements were called.
[1]
The Presiding Bishopric formerly consisted of H. David Burton, Presiding Bishop; Richard C. Edgley, First Counselor; and Keith B. McMullin, Second Counselor; and now consists of Gary E. Stevenson, Presiding Bishop; Gérald Caussé, First Counselor; and Dean M. Davies, Second Counselor.
The General Relief Society Presidency formerly consisted of Julie B. Beck, President; Silvia H. Allred, First Counselor; and Barbara Thompson, Second Counselor; and now consists of Linda K. Burton, General President; Carole M. Stephens First Counselor; and Linda S. Reeves, Second Counselor.
Multiple other calls and releases were made, with the calling of Larry EchoHawk to the First Quorum of the Seventy making headlines. A Pawnee, prominent Idaho Democrat, and head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the Obama administration, he is expected to resign his post in order to assume new church responsibilities. [2]
=== Teachings ===
==== General Young Women Session ====
Ann M. Dibb spoke about ___ followed by
Mary N. Cook, speaking about ___. A church-produced video,
Arise to the Mountain was shown, followed by
Elaine S. Dalton, who spoke about ___ and President
Thomas S. Monson who encouraged ___.
==== Saturday Morning Session ====
President
Thomas S. Monson provided the opening message, followed by President
Boyd K. Packer who discussed the family as the fundamental unit of society
[3] and Cheryl Esplin who discussed parental responsibilities toward children. These were followed by Elder
Donald L. Hallstrom, who spoke about the intimate intertwining of church and gospel and Elder
Paul E. Koelliker who spoke about full-time missionary service. Elder
Dallin H. Oaks, who spoke about sacrifices offered in similitude of Christ's sacrifice. The meeting concluded with President
Henry B. Eyring, who spoke about ___.
==== Saturday Afternoon Session ====
President
Dieter F. Uchtdorf performed the Sustaining of Church Officers, followed by the Church Auditing Department Report for 2011, presented by Robert W. Cantwell. The Church Statistical Report for 2011 was then presented by Brook P. Hales. Then Elder
Jeffrey R. Holland spoke about the
Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard and encouraged rejoicing in mercies received by others, followed by Elder
Robert D. Hales, who spoke about ___. Elder
David S. Baxter addressed the single parents in the church, assuring them that they are not "second class citizens". Elder
Ulisses Soares spoke about ___, Elder Quentin L. Cook spoke about ___ and the concluding speaker was Elder
Richard G. Scott who spoke about his personal practices for receiving divine revelation and encouraged all to seek revelation.
==== Priesthood Session ====
Elder
David A. Bednar opened the session with a personal story of his father's conversion and a plea that the men of the church be active in fulfilling their
home teaching and other priesthood duties. He was followed by Bishop
Richard C. Edgley, who spoke about achieving "real growth" for the church, including by bringing less-active members back into the church, and
Adrián Ochoa, who spoke to Young Men about exercising their priesthood by actively promoting righteousness. President
Dieter F. Uchtdorf spoke about his experiences being called as a Deacon's Quorum President and as a Seventy and encouraged faithfulness to the trust placed in priesthood holders, followed by President
Henry B. Eyring who spoke about learning from the successes of
Lehi and President
Thomas S. Monson who shared quotations from modern day prophets defining
priesthood power and duty, emphasizing that true joy comes from fulfilling duty.
==== Sunday Morning Session ====
President
Dieter F. Uchtdorf spoke of conflicts between siblings, encouraging forgiveness, repentance, and mercy (continuing a theme from one of his
prior talks) for both ourselves and the begrudged, saying simply of ill-will "Stop it". Then Elder
Russell M. Nelson spoke, including his
wonderment in the design of the physical body in a theme of 'Glory to God'. Then
Ronald A. Rasband spoke of a recent family birth of a child with a chromosomal deletion, addressing typical questions of 'how could a merciful God allow this to happen?' and responding with Christ's explanation: "that the works of God should be made manifest" (
John 9: 3) and expressing the sentiment for those that would help that 'Let me know if I can do something to help' "is really no help at all".
Julie B. Beck then discussed the mission of Relief Society and its future. Elder
D. Todd Christofferson explained the origin of LDS doctrine and differing levels of authority within LDS leadership to define doctrine, always to be confirmed by individual revelation in the membership of the Church. President
Thomas S. Monson was the concluding speaker, discussed the way that the inevitability of death draws us back to family responsibilities: family is what matters when temporary accomplishments are seen in the light of death.
==== Sunday Afternoon Session ====
L. Tom Perry spoke of the Book of Mormon.
M. Russell Ballard spoke of societal ills, including income inequality and broken homes, noting that they are correlated, and expressing his conviction that religious observance and family values are the reason for improved financial outcomes. O. Vincent Haleck spoke of the need for vision as well as action to bring about that vision.
Larry Y. Wilson spoke of the need to avoid compulsion in leadership, whether at home or at church.
David F. Evans spoke of the need to "natually and normally share the gospel". Paul P. Pieper spoke about personal experience with divinity and preserving its holiness.
Neil L. Anderson spoke of the importance of discipleship and recounted the story of the miraculous preservation of a family through the Haiti earthquake.
Thomas S. Monson was the concluding speaker.
So then, the question arises, what should be done about this content? It seems pointless to include it, as such a section has never been in the article in the past. So what should be done about this? What concerns me the most is that it was just one editor's perspective on it. So this will have to be reedited if it is to be reincluded in the article. I'd be okay leaving it out or putting it in. Whatever the consensus decides is fine with me. -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 22:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I consider a TALK page to be an extension of a WP Article; readers can read and learn more here. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 03:29, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
References
Not to be included in the Article, but for your interest, here are my notes [1] which I include to assist other WP editors as they look to improve this article on General Conference (LDS Church). Enjoy, Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 11:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
The Church recently announced that it would broadcast the Priesthood Session of General Conference live on LDS.org and on BYU-TV. For verification of this fact, please see this article. I feel this information should be included in this article, but I'm not sure where or how to include it. Thoughts? Thanks. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Actually, it is more important than you may realize and indicate since the first paragraph of the article herein says "one exclusively for male priesthood holders" but now it is on the public airwaves. Another thing that is monumental (to members) is that the Womens Conference included all LDS women age eight and older. Focus in their conference last weekend was on youth and the responsibility of Moms and leaders to them—among other topics of the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary (for the youngest). Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 03:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I'll be adding here statistics for Wikipedia editors to edit and improve the Article here, as deemed appropriate. Of high interest is (1) the growth of the Church; (2) International missionary and humanitarian work; (3) new temples, like in Rome; (4) new church leaders; (5) Other.
People worldwide can watch the broadcasts of conference sessions at: https://www.lds.org
Wikipedia editors can validate, authenticate, and reference facts from http://www.MormonNewsroom.org/
Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 13:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Here are the statistics (ending December 31, 2013) reported in the 184th General (World) Conference: The number of stakes is 3,050 with 405 missions; 571 districts (within a mission but not big enough to be a stake, yet); 29,253 wards and branches, (a branch is not big enough to be a ward, yet). Total membership is 15,082,028 [adding up the files in the membership computer database. The prophet called it 15million.] The number of children of record added in 2013 was 115,486; and the number of convert baptisms was 282,945 during the year. As of December 31, there were 83,035 fulltime missionaries [young elders, young sister missionaries, and seniors] 34,032 church service missionaries “serving throughout the Church.” One temple in Honduras was dedicated during 2013, bring the total of operating temples up to 141 at the end of the year.
The statistical report was preceded by the Audit Report, “to give reasonable assurance” of funds received and disbursed in the year 2013. — Filling the needs to (1) budget, (2) avoid debt, and (3) plan ahead to save against time of need, same advice to members. [Short and sweet.] — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 23:47, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
AsteriskStarSplat recently reverted a change asserting that the general women's meeting held the week before General Conference was not part of General Conference itself and was not included in the Conference Report or the Ensign. Oh, really? I would invite him to consult Ensign. If he were to look at pp. 116-128, he would see that the General Women's Meeting is included in the Ensign. A further glance at the "Conference Summary" on page 3 would inform him that the General Women's Meeting is just another session of conference like any others. Just because it is not considered one of the five "general" sessions doesn't make it any less a part of conference. A glance at the page for the April 2014 General Conference on the Church's website would clue him in on the fact that, according to the website, the General Women's Meeting is as much a part of Conference as any other session. Also, in the DVDs of Conference (I happen to have a copy, so I know this for a fact), the General Women's Meeting appears on a disc with the Sunday Afternoon Session. Why would they include a meeting that is not part of conference with official conference proceedings? I would encourage AsteriskStarSplat to do his research before making claims when the proof is not on his side. Anyone else want to uphold this claim? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 23:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since General conference went from three days (Fri-Sun) to two (Sat & Sun), the opening session of conference is Saturday morning. For a recent example, please see: Ensign, May 2014. The first talk, which opened the conference, was by Thomas S. Monson, titled "Welcome to Conference" and was given on Saturday morning; the last Conference talk was also by Monson, titled: "Until We Meet Again" and was given in the second Sunday session, the last of five sessions. I consider Monson as a reliable expert on when Conference begins and ends. While Rosemary M. Wixom, Bonnie L. Oscarson, Linda K. Burton, and Henry B. Eyring's talks from the General Womens meeting a week previously are then included in that edition of the Ensign, it is clear that it is not as part of Conference itself, but as an adjunct to it, just as the now discontinued June Conference was. — Asterisk * Splat → 23:21, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The 170th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints convened in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday, April 1, 2000 at 10 A.M. The general sessions of the conference were held at 10:00 A.M. and 2:00 P.M. on Saturday and Sunday, April 1 and 2, 2000. The general priesthood session was held on Saturday, April 1 at 6:00 P.M.It it clear that there are five sessions, four general sessions, and one priesthood session in this example. I'll find more recent examples if needed, but this was the easiest one to find. — Asterisk * Splat → 00:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
The 181st Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints convened in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 10 A.M. The general sessions of the conference were held at 10:00 A.M. and 2:00 P.M. on Saturday and Sunday, April 2 and 3, 2011. The general priesthood session was held on Saturday, April 2 at 6:00 P.M.Still five sessions, four general sessions, and one priesthood session in this example. — Asterisk * Splat → 00:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) ...for more information, and confirmation. —
Asterisk
*
Splat
→
01:08, 11 September 2014 (UTC)The First Presidency of the Church announced November 1 that beginning in 2014, a semiannual general women's meeting will replace the general Relief Society and general Young Women meetings held annually since 1993. The general women's meeting will be held the Saturday before each general conference and will be conducted by the general presidencies of the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary organizations. [...] Since 1993, general meetings have been held for the Relief Society and the Young Women in September and March, respectively. The meetings have included addresses from a member of the First Presidency and all three members of the respective auxiliary general presidency. From 1984 to 1993, a general meeting was held for all women and young women.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help) (emphasis mine). It couldn't be held before general conference if it was part of it. —
Asterisk
*
Splat
→
01:45, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Each April and October, members of the Church throughout the world assemble in Salt Lake City, Utah, for two days of meetings called General Conference. [...] The April conferences of the Church are called annual conferences; those in October, semiannual conferences. Current practice includes four two-hour general sessions on Saturday and Sunday, with a special priesthood session Saturday night carried by satellite to thousands of priesthood bearers throughout the world. Prior to 1977, the conferences met for three days.
April 1977: the first two-day general conference, replacing the former three-day general conference.(Note that this article also lists all conferences between 6 April 1830 and 4–5 October 1980)
General conferences are conducted each April and October and comprise five two-hour meetings held over two days. The April meetings are called annual conferences and those in October, semiannual.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)General conferences are conducted each April and October and comprise five two-hour meetings held over two days. The April meetings are called annual conferences and those in October, semiannual. The sessions on Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon are open to everyone, while a session on Saturday evening is for Latter-day Saint men and young men who hold the priesthood.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)Five sessions of the conference will be held Saturday and Sunday, 5-6 April 2014, in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)Proceedings of the 184th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will unfold from the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday and Sunday, 5-6 April 2014. [...] General conferences are conducted by the Church each April and October and comprise five two-hour meetings held over two days.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)President Monson presided at the conference and spoke in four of the five sessions. His counselors in the First Presidency, President Henry B. Eyring and President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, took turns conducting the sessions. In the opening session of conference Saturday morning, President Monson spoke of the recent Gilbert Arizona Temple dedication and the upcoming Fort Lauderdale Florida Temple dedication.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)Following is the text of remarks delivered by President Thomas S. Monson as he opened the 184th Annual General Conference, which convened in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City on Saturday morning, April 5, 2014.
Following is the full text of the message President Thomas S. Monson delivered as he brought to a close the 184th Annual General Conference of the Church on Sunday, April 6, 2014.
LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson did not announce any new temples on Saturday morning during the opening session of the 184th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
All members of the Church are invited to participate in the 184th Semiannual General Conference of the Church, which will convene in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, on Saturday and Sunday, October 4 and 5, 2014, with general sessions each day at 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. mountain daylight time (MDT), and the general priesthood meeting on Saturday, October 4, 2014, at 6:00 p.m. MDT.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)The 184th Semiannual General Conference will be held on Saturday and Sunday, October 4 and 5, 2014, with general sessions each day at 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. mountain daylight time (MDT), and the general priesthood meeting on Saturday, October 4, 2014, at 6:00 p.m. MDT.
{{
citation}}
: |contribution=
ignored (
help)The new policy will be implemented at the next conference, Oct. 4 and 5.
I see your point. Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up. Again, my apologies if I was being unduly stubborn, discourteous, or disagreeable in my responses in regards to this situation. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 12:43, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
I see. Thanks for your explanation and apology. As evidenced by my conduct in this case, I don't respond well when someone is making a claim that they refuse to prove. I also don't react well when my being in error on a situation is manifested and pointed out. I should have remembered the catchphrase that used to be on my signature here on Wikipedia: "We can disagree without being disagreeable." I didn't, and for that misconduct, I apologize. I am grateful that the storm seems to have blown over and that we were able to come to an agreement on this issue. That's all that I was hoping for. I will endeavor to conduct myself in a better way next time. Thanks to all who participated in this discussion. As far as I'm concerned, this matter can be closed with honor. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:28, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Funny you should mention that. I was going to point that out myself. Now we have an official statement validating what I've been claiming all along. No, I didn't know something no one else knew. But I did maintain that since the general women's meeting and its predecessors (the General Relief Society and General Young Women's Meetings) were contained in the Ensign magazine that they were part of conference. Now that view has been validated by a member of the First Presidency. Short of a declaration by Thomas S. Monson, that's about as official a statement on how the brethren view this general women's meeting as I've ever heard. So, based upon President Uchtdorf's statement, once the transcript of his talk becomes available, can we cite it to prove that there are six general sessions for general conference? Can we all agree to that now, in light of this official statement by President Uchtdorf? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 19:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Well, it's obvious I'm in the minority here. I still say I wouldn't see a problem citing Uchtdorf's address or the Salt Lake Tribune article about it as proof that there are six sessions, but I understand your desire for caution. In that case, we will wait and see what they say this weekend during what is usually considered the "traditional" sessions of conference, and see how they word things. But we may not have to wait long to find out. If they refer to the Saturday Morning Session as the Second Geenral Session of the 184th Semiannual General Conference, we'll have our answer. In the meantime, we wait. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 21:50, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I would gladly acknowledge the ambiguity if I saw it. Unfortunately, I don't see it that way. How many different ways can you interpret Uchtdorf's words as cited above? The way I see it, he is one of the three "presiding high priests" whose words, when spoken under the influence of the Spirit and with the approval of the prophet (both of which he had) qualify as the revealed word of the Lord as laid out in the revelations. The presiding high priests have no hand whatsoever in assembling the notices that appear on the website advertising general conference, and thus we cannot say at face value that Uchtdorf's words and the notice from the Church are to be held at the same level, or are to be entitled to the same consideration. One has to be more authoritative than the other. And of the two, I would trust Uchtdorf's words more than a notice put together that did not expressly have the voice and approval of the prophet of God. What I don't understand is why you are trying so vigorously to change my mind. I myself said I would be content to wait on changing the article until we have secondary sources from "general conference weekend" that will settle the debate once and for all. Until that time, further discussion is pointless. It is plain that I will never convince you to take Uchtdorf's words for the truth. And you will never convince me that "other sources" provide a "conflicting opinion" on the issue. Better to leave the issue alone unless and until sources pertaining to the "official general conference weekend" settle the debate once and for all. Fair enough? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 10:35, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
I repeat, what is so wrong about my holding on to a certain belief unless and until sources say otherwise? The general conference this weeekend will surely settle the debate once and for all, so continued discussion on the matter is pointless, as I won't be convinced I'm wrong unless and until they refer to the sessions in the traditional way. In the meantime, I am willing to take Uchtdorf's words for what I believe they are: a clear statement that the way the brethren view general conference from now on will be different. I will be sure to watch all the sessions of general conference live, because, living in Utah, I am not affected by any weird time differences. And you can bet that I will post the results of how they refer to the sessions (whether I'm right or wrong) as soon after it's ascertained as I can. I personally think that those who aren't willing to accept Uchtdorf's words as binding may be in for a surprise. But we will just have to wait and see. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:01, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
We know where we're at. You aren't convinced by Uchtdorf's statement that the Women's Meeting is officially part of General Conference now and are more swayed by a news release from the Church claiming that General Conference only comprises two days. On the other hand, I am fully convinced by Uchtdorf's statement that the brethren now view the Women's Meeting as part of General Conference, whatever their attitude regarding it may have been in the past, and I am not swayed by the news release which the leading brethren had no part in composing or posting online. By Saturday, we will have more information and then I will either be pleased to hear you all acknowledge I was right in my stance or else be convinced that your arguments have more merit than I originally gave them credit for and be thus in a position to admit I am wrong. Until that time, there is likely no need to rehash this issue over and over again, unless another editor has something new to contribute to the conversation. Unless that is the case, I suggest we let this topic rest until this weekend when the truth will resolve this issue one way or the other. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:16, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, then, source-wise, we have one source which states that the Women's Meeting is the opening session of general conference, and one source which states that the general conference will comprise the traditional two days. What more is there? Am I overlooking something? If I am, please point it out to me. Never let it be said that I overlooked a source that shed light on an obscure matter. While other users have been involved in this discussion, I notice that it's mainly been you and me going back and forth for most of the discussion, with other users occasionally chipping in their two cents. I am more than happy to leave it to other users to define their positions, but they don't seem to be doing it. And if you're not "entirely happy" with the way I've characterized your viewpoint, then perhaps you need to clarify so I understand you better and don't mistakenly characterize your viewpoint as something it's not. Because all I've been hearing from you is that "there's a press release from the Church saying that General Conference will be held on October 4-5." You seem unwilling to acknowledge Uchtdorf's words as authoritative, though his status as one of the three "presiding high priests" makes his words so. I'm pretty sure that Uchtdorf wouldn't have said what he said if clarification or further explanation of this point wasn't going to be given in general conference this weekend. At any rate, you still haven't answered my question. Why are you so desperate to convert me to your POV? I don't see where this difference of opinion is doing any harm. All it is doing is prolonging a conversation pointlessly, as neither of us will gain or lose any ground by continuing to discuss this issue. Our best course of action is to wait and see if and when something is said during what is considered the "actual" general conference weekend. Until that time, can't we let this subject rest? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 10:46, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
So—any developments that might need to be discussed on this post-conference? I didn't watch, so I don't have any original research-y information, but I've seen this SL Trib report, which just says: "Though Dieter F. Uchtdorf, second counselor in the governing First Presidency, had said last Saturday’s general women’s meeting was the first session of the semiannual conference, both Henry B. Eyring, Monson’s first counselor, and Bonnie Oscarson, president of the Young Women’s organization (for girls ages 12 to 17), in her invocation, called Saturday morning’s gathering 'the first session.'" Based on this, I'd be inclined to hold to my previous position that we're in a state of ambiguity, with conflicting statements that can be sourced, and now with the Tribune explicitly acknowledging the conflict. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:03, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
At the meeting in September, it was announced that the General Women's Meeting was the first session of the semiannual general conference.
President Monson presided at the conference and spoke in four of the five sessions..
Coming late to this discussion, but glad for the research and input that has already taken place. I did notice that there was nothing out of the ordinary in the way they referred to the sessions, but I did notice one thing that would tend to make me still want to cite Uchtdorf's statement in the article: the brother who gave the invocation at the priesthood session referred to it as "the fourth session" of conference. Yet counting the standard way, there were only three. For the priesthood session to make four, he must have been alluding to the women's conference as a session. My advice is to cite Uchtdorf's statement as it is, but still say in the article that general conference has five sessions. Then we are acknowledging that the women's conference is counted as a session, but we still allow for the standard. At least, that's what I would do. Although the fact that the priesthood session was referred to by one person as "the fourth session" of general conference" and that wasn't correct should be noted somehow as well. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 03:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
So what do we do, just ignore the fact that Uchtdorf ever made that statement? I believe the readers are entitled to know of this statement, if they don't already. He is one of the three presiding high priests and as such spoke for the entire First Presidency in what he said. Why that failed to have an impact on the way the other sessions of conference were referred to, I don't know. But one thing I do know. The statement has been made, and we have other sources that, while not directly countering it, seem to imply the opposite. So why not cite both and let the intelligent reader sort it out for themselves? This would eliminate the concerns of WP:WEIGHT by neither ignoring it nor featuring it solely. Of course, if the consensus would rather not include either source, I will, as always, abide by that consensus decision. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 08:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that great research. So there is an ambiguity in secondary sources. Given that, I imagine the Church will issue an official statement at some point, either ratifying and clarifying Uchtdorf's comment or else providing a statement that places the quotation in the proper context. Oh, by the way, Carlson's "statement" was made during the invocation of the priesthood session, so unless it was edited out in the video of the priesthood session, it still exists. Just viewed the video of it, and it has been edited out. Weird. Given the ambiguity, I would either advocate mentioning the ambiguity of sources somehow in the article or else ignoring the issue altogether unless and until the Church comes out with an official statement in future, as I said above. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:29, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
How many different ways can Uchtdorf's comments be interpreted? The meaning seems to be pretty clear: Uchtdorf was indicating that the Women's Meeting was part of general conference. And now we have the so-called "conflicting sources" that say otherwise. I will admit that they are compelling, but i do not find them to be as compelling or binding or official as Uchtdorf's statement. As I've said until I'm blue in the face, Uchtdorf is not just some random person making a statement. He is one of the "three presiding high priests" who has the promise of the Lord that what he says under the inspiration of the Spirit and the direction of the prophet is "the word of the Lord." The statement still appears in the transcript of Uchtdorf's talk. It would be foolhardy and unjust to ignore it or pretend he didn't say it. And I don't believe we "settled" anything. I had proposed either including Uchtdorf's statement and noting the ambiguity or else leaving it alone unless and until we have further information, and I'm not getting a straight answer from you about your opinion regarding this proposal. You're just repeating what you've said previously, as if you're still trying to convince me to ignore or overlook Uchtdorf's statement. Well, I'm sorry. I can't do that. I take Uchtdorf's statement for what it is, nothing more, nothing less. I know there is ambiguity in sources at the moment, and I'm sorry about that. But unless and until something happens to shed greater light on this issue one way or the other (by either repudiating Uchtdorf's statement or endorsing it), I have to take it for what it is. I would suggest quoting Uchtdorf's statement and noting the ambiguity. But that's just my opinion regarding what we should do. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:40, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
So that's it, then? We just ignore Uchtdorf's statement altogether? It doesn't matter if Uchtdorf is "the most junior" of the "three presiding high priests"; as he himself stated after making the statement in question, he was asked by President Monson to represent the First Presidency at that meeting. So that to me indicates that he had President Monson's approval to make that statement. The fact that it has still not been eliminated, even from the Ensign and Liahona offiicial proceedings of conference says that his statement should carry some weight and should not be ignored. I am fine if we want to hold off on including Uchtdorf's statement until the Church clarifies it, but I don't think we should just drop the matter and say that "no change" will be made to the article, even if the Church does clarify the issue. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 01:04, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
When recently doing the research on the beginning conference session, I ran across the following potential references, that have interesting material that might be used to add to the article:
Thanks. — Asterisk * Splat → 21:19, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Still waiting for clarification on how you intend these sources to be used, Asterisk. Thanks in advance for your response. Look forward to using these sources to improve the article, once we know what you have in mind. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 07:23, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry you feel that way. I want you to know that I hold no animosity towards you or anyone else who had an opposing view from mine in the previous discussion. I also want to note that disagreements, even intense ones, often crop up on Wikipedia because of differences of opinion and perspective. The key is to try and disagree without being disagreeable. If I crossed a line in that regard, I apologize. It appears that the so-called conflict has been resolved for the moment. Or at least, the discussion has been closed. If you are unable or unwilling to discuss how these sources might potentially be used in this article, perhaps someone else might feel differently. So I am throwing this out to the general public: What are your thoughts on Asterisk's cited sources, and how might we use them in the article? Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 05:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Asterisk, now that it seems the Church has resolved the issue discussed above and below this topic to the satisfaction of all concerned (see my comment below), do you think you'd feel up to discussing how and in what manner you hoped the cited sources could be used in the article? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:51, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
<incredulous> Ok, so are Church employees reading this talk page? </incredulous> This is getting even more weird than it was ...
We have our answer, finally, after we reached the completely opposite conclusion. I'm honestly a little very stunned. —
Asterisk
*
Splat
→
23:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
I applaud the Church's clarification of this issue. I will say I do feel we could have avoided a lot of misunderstandings and contention if we'd taken Uchtdorf's words as official enough. I recognize, however, that until this "official" word came down, the evidence suggesting it was not part of conference was compelling. I will admit, I was still blown away that this clarification came sooner than the next general conference. And things would have been cleared up so much sooner if I had paid attention to how the meeting was termed in the PDF version of the November Ensign. There the answer was, right in plain sight in three places: in the table of contents, on the conference summary page, and on the page where addresses from the session were featured. I'm sorry I missed that. At any rate, it's official now. And now this issue can be put to rest for good. I again apologize if I was unduly difficult in pushing my POV without anything but Uchtdorf's words to back me up. I hope, Asterisk, that now that the issue is resolved once and for all, you will feel up to explaining what you thought the sources you mentioned in an earlier topic could contribute to this article. My thanks to Adjwilley for making this change so promptly after the proper sources verified the truth. As far as the issue of a disagreement at top levels of Church government, I suppose it's possible. Differences of opinion have been known to happen at Church headquarters. And it has usually only been once the prophet has officially decided the matter that such differences are put aside. However, I refuse to believe that Uchtdorf would have made such a game-changing statement without some consent from President Monson. As I understand it, the text of all conference talks has to be approved by the president of the Church before they are given in general conference. This is to ensure that what is said is truly "scripture . . .the will of the Lord, . . the mind of the Lord, . . the word of the Lord, . . the voice of the Lord and the power of God unto salvation." (D&C 68:4) How else could the prophet state with confidence that "They have sought heaven’s help concerning the messages which they will present, and they have felt inspiration regarding what will be said."? Each time he is able to state this unequivocally. I know Uchtdorf's talk in question was given before this guarantee was offered last conference, but I still imagine that President Monson has some say in what is said in general conference. At any rate, I've rambled long enough. What I'm trying to say is, I'm glad the Church has spoken out and resolved this issue now. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:44, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
I can easily believe that we spent more time discussing this than the brethren did. However it happened, I'm glad that we didn't have to wait too long for the Church to officially address this issue. I never said it was necessary for the prophet to say that general conference talks were inspired. What I said was that when he does say that, he endorses all the talks that will be given/have been given. So that should have been our first clue that Uchtdorf wasn't just being inclusive or welcoming. It should have been an indication to us that Uchtdorf likely had the approval of Monson to say what he did. The ambiguity that followed has now been addressed, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction. And now the issue can be put to bed, I hope. Asterisk, this got lost in the ensuing conversation, but I still would like to know if you now feel up to discussing how to use the sources you presented in the other topic. I look forward to the feedback and discussion that will take place regarding that subject. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 04:20, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
I have read them. What isn't clear to me is how Asterisk intended to use these sources within the article. However, any further comments about that issue should be under that topic, so I will post a comment there in a minute. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 07:34, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
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Hello again, everyone! I wanted to pose a couple of questions here. Firstly, given the statement by Church President Russell M. Nelson that the upcoming General Conference would be a bicentennial celebration of important events of the restoration and would be "unlike any previous General Conference", the subsequent announcement about the Saturday evening session for all male and female members ages 11 and up, and the subsequent announcements of changes resulting from COVID-19, shouldn't all of that be mentioned in this article? If we decide to do so, what is the best way to do that? Would we start an in-article section specific to the upcoming conference? Would it be best to include information about it in bits and pieces throughout the article? Are there any other specific things we should keep in mind while including this content in the article? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 02:38, 21 March 2020 (UTC)