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Beowulf is a Geat, but he crosses the sea to fight Grendel. Klaeber places that part of the story in Zealand. Matthew Woodcraft
I suggest changing "kingdom" in the article to something with better foundation in accepted science. Talk about tribes and chieftains instead, there's support for that terminology. There is also no evidence that the Geatas of Beowulf have anything to do with present-day Swedish territory, and the place-names mentioned involving "Göta-" (Göteborg, Göta älv, Östergötland, Västergötland) are iirc all much more recent than unified Sweden. The history of any independent Götaland should imo at this time be kept in the realm of speculation. OlofE 14:03 May 4, 2003 (UTC)
Claiming that the Goths of Gotland played a great part in continental history is, how should I put this.... not designed to increase one's credibility. Maybe it's a conspiracy. OlofE 19:09, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
The connection between Gautar and Geatas is only controversial due to regional rivalry. The Jutes, for instance, were known to the Anglo-saxons who called them Eotas. As the Eotas were part of the A-S stock, there is no sense in assuming that the A-S confused Geatas and Eotas. Moroever, the A-S ea corresponded to Old Norse au and modern Swedish ö: leaf-löv, reave-röva, dream-dröm, bear-björn, mead-mjöd, etc. Geatas is the logical A-S form of Old Norse gautar and modern Swedish götar. Wiglaf
Someone got a little overzealous by turning the Jutes article into a redirect to this one. While some authorities believe the two people are the same, one can discuss either people without reference to the other: the Geats relate to Swedish history, while the Jutes to Anglo-Saxon history. After this possible identity in the 6th century, neither nation has much to do with each other until the Viking era. Combining the two articles leads to confusion. They are separate topics. -- llywrch 19:27, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
OlofE, you seem to adress the words 'fascist' and 'womb of people' at me. This is silly and you are building a strawman. I have NOT done those contributions to the article. I don't believe there is a conspiracy and I have NOT written that there is anything such. You seem to be personally opposed to the generally accepted identification between 'geats' and 'gauts'. And you have NOT given any linguistic or historical proof for your point of view. The fact that the recent Swedish translation does not translate 'Geat' with 'Gaut' but preserves the original form is NOT any such proof. I am a linguist, but I know a number of Swedish history professors. This period of Swedish "history" is not politically correct in Sweden, and Swedish historians avoid it. I doubt that you have missed that. Keeping the original form of the name is just a convenient way of avoiding possible conflicts. Wiglaf
P.S. OlofE, next time you addess me, please, bring something substantial to support your point of view, and DON'T put words in my mouth. Wiglaf
Oh, I see it was Kenneth Allan! I have had to remove some paragraphs that he has written, in other articles. They are usually a mishmash of strange and confused etymological speculations. Just look at Frith. I was so stunned when I read it that I have not had the energy to remove his contribution there. Wiglaf
I think we should drop the mention of Göteborg or rephrase it, as that name is very recent. There are plenty of placenames with a "correcter" heritage in their names, like Götala. (Götene? I don't recall the history of that). // OlofE 08:05, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have changed according to your suggestions.-- Wiglaf 18:00, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I am supposed to be finished this fall.-- Wiglaf 19:30, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
First, the article says: The languages of Goths and Geats were strikingly different...
Then it says: There is no knowledge about differences in language between Geats and Goths. There is no remaining literature. Out of the very few runic words found in alleged territories of the Geats and Goths, no conclusions can be made.
Which is it? Joey 20:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Have you ever said "Awwww Geat, Geat, Geat, Geat"?
How do you pronounce Geat? Is it gæɑt? Ireneshusband 07:39, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Dear friends, Geats or The Getae /ˈdʒiːtiː/ or /ˈɡiːtiː/ or Gets (Ancient Greek: Γέται, singular Γέτης; Bulgarian: Гети; Romanian: Geţi) are names given to several Thracian tribes inhabiting the regions to either side of the Lower Danube, in what is today northern Bulgaria and southern Romania. Both the singular form Get and Getae may be derived from a Greek exonym: the area was the hinterland of Greek colonies on the Black Sea coast, bringing the Getae into contact with the Ancient Greeks from an early date. [please reffer to the following article for details concerning the origin of this name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.226.70.66 ( talk) 03:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
From the last sentence of the History text: "To this day, the Swedish kings still formally call themselves svears och götars konung (king of Swedes and Geats, or Rex Sweorum et Gothorum)."
This is no longer true. When present Swedish king Carl-Gustaf acceded in 1973 he deleted the minor titels ("King of Swedes, Geats and Wends") and his title is "only" King of Sweden (Sveriges Konung). The same did danish Queen Margerethe who acceded 1972, she dropped the titles og Geats, Wends etc.
I changed the reference to Vandals for Wendish, which is the origin of the tripartite folks formula "Svea, Göta and Vende konung". Svea refers to Swear, and Götar to Geats, but the folk Vende was stolen from the Danish king, since the Danish king first claimed to be king of Danes, Geats and Wendish. The tripartite formula was later connected to the three-crowns symbol, which is commonly believed to be the personal heraldic of king Albert of Mecklenburg. This connection of threes is an invention. The later connection between Göta and Goths, and Wendish and Vandals, was invented in the 17th century to inflate the importance of Sweden and Swedishness, a subculture that fell into heavy disgrace from WW II and on. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 09:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
The article differentiates between Geats and Swedes. It is my understanding that Swedes is the collective term for Geats, Gotlanders and Svear. In light of this, the article should change Swedes to Svear where relevant. Please see the version of the map used in the Svear article. KarlXII 15:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
This discussion has (temporarily?) been moved to My talk page. Everyone is welcome there. KarlXII 20:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
In modern Swedish a distinction is often made between eastern and western Geats ( Östgötar och Västgötar) analogous to Eastern Geatland ( Östergötland) and Western Geatlant ( Västergötland) and similar distinctions between the two languages. I believe there have also be historical differences between the two. Should this be mentioned in the article? KarlXII 13:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Acording to Adam of Bremen the Gothic people was also a Sveonian people and there were no single Sveonian people in Mälaren -area. The Svear and Götar/Goths definition was mentioned by the church when different bishops areas was mentioned, i.e. not a definition of different folks/people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PSoederberg ( talk • contribs) 16:28, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Current text says:
"Moreover, he described that on this island there were three tribes called the Gautigoths (cf. Geat/Gaut), the Ostrogoths (cf. the Swedish province of Östergötland) and Vagoths (Gotlanders?)."
Surely this must be the other way around, i.e. Gautigoths = Gotlanders, Vagoths = Västergötar (pronounced Vägötar)? -- 217.211.25.143 19:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The article states as given that the Geats mentioned in Beowulf are the same as the Swedish Götar/Gutar. From what I've understood, this is not so clear or certain. Many mention that a more likely identification is that the Geats of Beowulf are in fact the Jutar (from Jutland). Although I'm not suggesting that the article should replace one assumed 'fact' with another, I do think the article should mention the uncertainty which exists on the issue and why. Certainly, the Swedish wikipedia article on Beowulf mentions this. For those of you who can read Swedish:
Regards Osli73 02:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
This section is currently ended with "especially in Sweden, where the debate about Sweden's history prior to the 11th century is affected". While it is true that there is a debate about the history of country prior to the 11th century, I don't see where the identity of the Gautar in Beowulf has any direct bearing on this. Cheers Osli73 16:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
In Old English, Geats are often called Wedera. I notice that Weders redirects here. But there's no mention of the word in the article. Do we know where it comes from or what it means exactly? Widsith 11:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Someone reqd merge Gaut+Geat. Any reason, please?! Or, since the request is given without reason, I may be tempted to remove the request templates. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 11:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to draw a straight line between Goths and Gutar when there is no general agreement they were the same tribe. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 11:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The article abounds with anachronism, but this one in the introduction may be the most egregious one. Göteborg was founded and named 1621 by Gustavus Adolphus, when Swedish gothicism was fashionable and when Sweden was an international power. The name was of course connected to the river Göta Älv, but was primarily meant to refer to the Goths that brought about the Fall of the Roman Empire. I do not think Beowulf played much of a role in the Swedish illusions of historical grandeur of the time: Gothenburg. Rudbeck c.s. wrote much more about the Thracian Getae of classical times than about Anglosaxons. Also, "Geatsburg" does not occur in print - I checked books.google and scholar.google for that. So I will start cleaning out the Göteborg stuff. / Pieter Kuiper 06:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Let me start at the top, even though it is out of place. This page is full of right wing imperialism. The trick is to equalize words like svear with people around mälaren. In reality, sources like Adam are such that it is possible to view Geats as an extra noble tribe of Swedes. As the article is read one gets the feeling that this tribe Geats is inferior. The simple fact is that there were medieval Geatish kings, and that for over 200 years there were no successful pretender from around mälaren. As it is, the article is presented with translations that are not supported by anything but for provincialism. Neither Saxo nor äldre västgötalagen actually proves that a Swedish centre were to be found around mälaren. I expect that contributors like berig will provide ample sources as to how we should determine what we actually mean when we speak of ethnicity. If this person berig cannot do that, I will add an Ockham's razor interpretation. For foreigners reading this stuff I can explain the question in hand with some thoughts about the king of England. We know now that there have been many kings of England, who could be described not exactually as English. This is the problem with this article; it tries to say that a king of Sweden had to be approved by a deciding force from around mälaren, but present day historians do not agree. This is an extremely difficult question for provincialists, but not for others. Foreigners will understand it easily when they think of the heptarchy. No one has said that London always has to be on top. In fact, present day medieval Swedish historians look towards foreign examples for to understand the creation of the ethnicity of Sweden.- 01:23, 28 October 2007 85.224.199.102
I think the article should point out that the Geats are more than likely to be a Gothic tribe, just not the Goths of Europe. Gapts are also Gothic and the Ostrogoths and Visigoths were not actually called Goths by themselves. The Ostrogoths were called 'Greuthung'. The Visigoths and Ostrogoths are merely the Gothic tribes who migrated to Europe. King Óðinn The Aesir 15:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Geat also occurs in the Anglo-Saxon royal genealogies, as the son of Tatwa or Taetwa. In the List of kings of the Angles, he is the father of Godwulf. Geat is said the have been worshipped as a god. / Pieter Kuiper ( talk) 22:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I had removed the peacock terms claiming "general identification" of ethnonyms. Of course, Berig reverted this, stating in the edit summery the identification of the two forms as the same name is not debated by anyone. But even Berig does not know everything. Jane Acomb Leake proposed that the ethnonym i Beowulf might ultimately originate from the ancient Getae. And nowadays, the general attitude seems to be not to make simple one-to-one identifications. / Pieter Kuiper ( talk) 20:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I was just skimming the article and noticed the following random inappropriateness under "Early History", under "History":
The earliest mention of the suck my dick may appear in Ptolemy (2nd century A.D.) [...] [emphasis added]
I don't have an account for editing, but obviously I suggest this be removed. Cheers. 99.245.216.89 ( talk) 01:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
It says: "when the Geats were finally subdued by the Swedes" well it happend in the 17th century when the Swedish history was rewritten in Uppsala, Uppland. I haven´t heard of any conqurer who puts the aristocracy of the conqured land on their own throne for centuries. I belive Geats subdued or incorpareted the Sweones and kept a Geat on the throne. The Sweones then changed their administrative system to the same as the Geats(hundare to härad). Between the 12th and 14th century the importance of the eastern part of the kingdom increases, the Geat Birger Jarl is forced to found Stockholm. During the centuries the this shift continues and the center of the kingdom moves to Stockholm and the Geat aristocracy slowly loses alot of its influence. (Good luck)
At the beginning of the entry the pronunciation is given for Old English, Old Norse etc. but not for current English: I believe it is pronounced roughly "geets" (like "greets") but someone competent could kindly add the exact phonetic form? 93.36.213.29 ( talk) 10:41, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Explain why it makes no sense please. And why should your sentence be in the middle of a paragraph about something else? -- Danog-76 ( talk) 19:13, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Where, please, do we find a common English word spelled "Geat" or "Geats" anywhere else (reliable) besides Wikipedia? As late as the mid 1980s not one respectable encyclopedia or dictionary recognized any such term. What happened and when? The "Etymology" section of this article does not address the name of the article at all. Isn't that usual and rather odd?. When did it begin to be used, by whom, etc etc etc? --
SergeWoodzing (
talk) 22:32, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Why is it neccessary to use personally offensive (and grossly exaggerated) wording like "pet crusade all over Wikipedia" and "one person to run around tagging articles"? Can we please concentrate on the main issue without getting belligerent? I have crossed out the 1980s part. Please answer the main question! Give a source for the origin of the word "Geat", please! Why is it spelled that way and where dit it come from in that spelling? Most Swedes I've talked to for tha last 50 years find it very strange. Can you please help? -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 21:25, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Please answer the main question! Give a source for the origin of the word "Geat", please! Why is it spelled that way and where dit it come from in that spelling? That's etymology. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 22:46, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've now attempted to fine-tune the source issue by adding what many others seem to feel is a fact, to that sentence, and asking for a source for that. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 04:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Could anyone tell me the source of the thesis with the correspondences in Old Norse (gautar) - Swedish (götar) - Old English (brauð - bröd - brēad ...). Who wrote about it? Kind regards-- 88.72.0.127 ( talk) 09:41, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
@ Alphathon: wanted a clarification of the etymology. I'll try my best, but I'm not sure if I'm up for a proper rewrite of the text: The basic meaning of both "geat" or "goth" is "to pour". The generally accepted interpretation of this is that it means "those who pour their seed", i.e. "the men". Another interpretation, now seen as unlikely, is that it has something to do with rivers pouring forth into a sea.
Andejons ( talk) 10:04, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
There are two ')'s and three '('s. What exactly belongs on the other side of and in the phrase "and sometimes Goths"? Looks like someone made a clumsy deletion. — Tamfang ( talk) 07:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
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I don't approve of removal of text, and it looks like an attempt to tidy up the history section here and make the history of Sweden at the time look simpler and tidier than it was. Moreover, I disapprove of the removal of Götaland theory. It is a highly influential movement and it renders a controversial topic even more toxic. I guess most people in Sweden who are interested in medieval history have met a lot of people who actually believe that the Götaland theory is not fringe.-- Berig (talk) 15:11, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Also, an interesting influence of the Götaland theory together with the old Gothicismus movement, is a quite common perception that Swedes and Geats entered a union and came up with the idea of a new country named "Sweden" (in the 13th century?), which implies that the old form Svearike is a completely different name from the later form Sverige. For a linguist this may seem rather absurd, considering how many different forms of the name Svearike/Sverige that existed, and the fact that the name is attested from at least around the year 1000, and may predate it by almost three centuries (Beowulf). Naturally the article has to accept that for reasons of NPOV, but we don't have to remove information from the article or make things look much simpler than they are.-- Berig (talk) 15:27, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
I understand some may feel that the discontinuity view is paramount here, i.e. that the late medieval Swedish kingdom, must be separated and isolated conceptually from the early medieval Swedish kingdom. I understand that because they were two very different entities. In the early middle ages, it was a loosely organized pagan Germanic kingdom, while in the late middle ages, it was a centralized Christian kingdom. Enormous changes took place and it makes sense to separate the concepts. In Sweden this is often done by calling the early kingdom Svitjod and the late kingdom Sverige. However, this is English WP and Svitjod is usually translated as Sweden.-- Berig (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Lastly, if this article is ever going to become a good and stable article, it will not be by removing things. It will be by presenting the topic in all its messiness and toxicity.-- Berig (talk) 16:01, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
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Beowulf is a Geat, but he crosses the sea to fight Grendel. Klaeber places that part of the story in Zealand. Matthew Woodcraft
I suggest changing "kingdom" in the article to something with better foundation in accepted science. Talk about tribes and chieftains instead, there's support for that terminology. There is also no evidence that the Geatas of Beowulf have anything to do with present-day Swedish territory, and the place-names mentioned involving "Göta-" (Göteborg, Göta älv, Östergötland, Västergötland) are iirc all much more recent than unified Sweden. The history of any independent Götaland should imo at this time be kept in the realm of speculation. OlofE 14:03 May 4, 2003 (UTC)
Claiming that the Goths of Gotland played a great part in continental history is, how should I put this.... not designed to increase one's credibility. Maybe it's a conspiracy. OlofE 19:09, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
The connection between Gautar and Geatas is only controversial due to regional rivalry. The Jutes, for instance, were known to the Anglo-saxons who called them Eotas. As the Eotas were part of the A-S stock, there is no sense in assuming that the A-S confused Geatas and Eotas. Moroever, the A-S ea corresponded to Old Norse au and modern Swedish ö: leaf-löv, reave-röva, dream-dröm, bear-björn, mead-mjöd, etc. Geatas is the logical A-S form of Old Norse gautar and modern Swedish götar. Wiglaf
Someone got a little overzealous by turning the Jutes article into a redirect to this one. While some authorities believe the two people are the same, one can discuss either people without reference to the other: the Geats relate to Swedish history, while the Jutes to Anglo-Saxon history. After this possible identity in the 6th century, neither nation has much to do with each other until the Viking era. Combining the two articles leads to confusion. They are separate topics. -- llywrch 19:27, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
OlofE, you seem to adress the words 'fascist' and 'womb of people' at me. This is silly and you are building a strawman. I have NOT done those contributions to the article. I don't believe there is a conspiracy and I have NOT written that there is anything such. You seem to be personally opposed to the generally accepted identification between 'geats' and 'gauts'. And you have NOT given any linguistic or historical proof for your point of view. The fact that the recent Swedish translation does not translate 'Geat' with 'Gaut' but preserves the original form is NOT any such proof. I am a linguist, but I know a number of Swedish history professors. This period of Swedish "history" is not politically correct in Sweden, and Swedish historians avoid it. I doubt that you have missed that. Keeping the original form of the name is just a convenient way of avoiding possible conflicts. Wiglaf
P.S. OlofE, next time you addess me, please, bring something substantial to support your point of view, and DON'T put words in my mouth. Wiglaf
Oh, I see it was Kenneth Allan! I have had to remove some paragraphs that he has written, in other articles. They are usually a mishmash of strange and confused etymological speculations. Just look at Frith. I was so stunned when I read it that I have not had the energy to remove his contribution there. Wiglaf
I think we should drop the mention of Göteborg or rephrase it, as that name is very recent. There are plenty of placenames with a "correcter" heritage in their names, like Götala. (Götene? I don't recall the history of that). // OlofE 08:05, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have changed according to your suggestions.-- Wiglaf 18:00, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I am supposed to be finished this fall.-- Wiglaf 19:30, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
First, the article says: The languages of Goths and Geats were strikingly different...
Then it says: There is no knowledge about differences in language between Geats and Goths. There is no remaining literature. Out of the very few runic words found in alleged territories of the Geats and Goths, no conclusions can be made.
Which is it? Joey 20:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Have you ever said "Awwww Geat, Geat, Geat, Geat"?
How do you pronounce Geat? Is it gæɑt? Ireneshusband 07:39, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Dear friends, Geats or The Getae /ˈdʒiːtiː/ or /ˈɡiːtiː/ or Gets (Ancient Greek: Γέται, singular Γέτης; Bulgarian: Гети; Romanian: Geţi) are names given to several Thracian tribes inhabiting the regions to either side of the Lower Danube, in what is today northern Bulgaria and southern Romania. Both the singular form Get and Getae may be derived from a Greek exonym: the area was the hinterland of Greek colonies on the Black Sea coast, bringing the Getae into contact with the Ancient Greeks from an early date. [please reffer to the following article for details concerning the origin of this name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.226.70.66 ( talk) 03:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
From the last sentence of the History text: "To this day, the Swedish kings still formally call themselves svears och götars konung (king of Swedes and Geats, or Rex Sweorum et Gothorum)."
This is no longer true. When present Swedish king Carl-Gustaf acceded in 1973 he deleted the minor titels ("King of Swedes, Geats and Wends") and his title is "only" King of Sweden (Sveriges Konung). The same did danish Queen Margerethe who acceded 1972, she dropped the titles og Geats, Wends etc.
I changed the reference to Vandals for Wendish, which is the origin of the tripartite folks formula "Svea, Göta and Vende konung". Svea refers to Swear, and Götar to Geats, but the folk Vende was stolen from the Danish king, since the Danish king first claimed to be king of Danes, Geats and Wendish. The tripartite formula was later connected to the three-crowns symbol, which is commonly believed to be the personal heraldic of king Albert of Mecklenburg. This connection of threes is an invention. The later connection between Göta and Goths, and Wendish and Vandals, was invented in the 17th century to inflate the importance of Sweden and Swedishness, a subculture that fell into heavy disgrace from WW II and on. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 09:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
The article differentiates between Geats and Swedes. It is my understanding that Swedes is the collective term for Geats, Gotlanders and Svear. In light of this, the article should change Swedes to Svear where relevant. Please see the version of the map used in the Svear article. KarlXII 15:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
This discussion has (temporarily?) been moved to My talk page. Everyone is welcome there. KarlXII 20:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
In modern Swedish a distinction is often made between eastern and western Geats ( Östgötar och Västgötar) analogous to Eastern Geatland ( Östergötland) and Western Geatlant ( Västergötland) and similar distinctions between the two languages. I believe there have also be historical differences between the two. Should this be mentioned in the article? KarlXII 13:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Acording to Adam of Bremen the Gothic people was also a Sveonian people and there were no single Sveonian people in Mälaren -area. The Svear and Götar/Goths definition was mentioned by the church when different bishops areas was mentioned, i.e. not a definition of different folks/people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PSoederberg ( talk • contribs) 16:28, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Current text says:
"Moreover, he described that on this island there were three tribes called the Gautigoths (cf. Geat/Gaut), the Ostrogoths (cf. the Swedish province of Östergötland) and Vagoths (Gotlanders?)."
Surely this must be the other way around, i.e. Gautigoths = Gotlanders, Vagoths = Västergötar (pronounced Vägötar)? -- 217.211.25.143 19:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The article states as given that the Geats mentioned in Beowulf are the same as the Swedish Götar/Gutar. From what I've understood, this is not so clear or certain. Many mention that a more likely identification is that the Geats of Beowulf are in fact the Jutar (from Jutland). Although I'm not suggesting that the article should replace one assumed 'fact' with another, I do think the article should mention the uncertainty which exists on the issue and why. Certainly, the Swedish wikipedia article on Beowulf mentions this. For those of you who can read Swedish:
Regards Osli73 02:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
This section is currently ended with "especially in Sweden, where the debate about Sweden's history prior to the 11th century is affected". While it is true that there is a debate about the history of country prior to the 11th century, I don't see where the identity of the Gautar in Beowulf has any direct bearing on this. Cheers Osli73 16:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
In Old English, Geats are often called Wedera. I notice that Weders redirects here. But there's no mention of the word in the article. Do we know where it comes from or what it means exactly? Widsith 11:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Someone reqd merge Gaut+Geat. Any reason, please?! Or, since the request is given without reason, I may be tempted to remove the request templates. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 11:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to draw a straight line between Goths and Gutar when there is no general agreement they were the same tribe. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 11:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The article abounds with anachronism, but this one in the introduction may be the most egregious one. Göteborg was founded and named 1621 by Gustavus Adolphus, when Swedish gothicism was fashionable and when Sweden was an international power. The name was of course connected to the river Göta Älv, but was primarily meant to refer to the Goths that brought about the Fall of the Roman Empire. I do not think Beowulf played much of a role in the Swedish illusions of historical grandeur of the time: Gothenburg. Rudbeck c.s. wrote much more about the Thracian Getae of classical times than about Anglosaxons. Also, "Geatsburg" does not occur in print - I checked books.google and scholar.google for that. So I will start cleaning out the Göteborg stuff. / Pieter Kuiper 06:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Let me start at the top, even though it is out of place. This page is full of right wing imperialism. The trick is to equalize words like svear with people around mälaren. In reality, sources like Adam are such that it is possible to view Geats as an extra noble tribe of Swedes. As the article is read one gets the feeling that this tribe Geats is inferior. The simple fact is that there were medieval Geatish kings, and that for over 200 years there were no successful pretender from around mälaren. As it is, the article is presented with translations that are not supported by anything but for provincialism. Neither Saxo nor äldre västgötalagen actually proves that a Swedish centre were to be found around mälaren. I expect that contributors like berig will provide ample sources as to how we should determine what we actually mean when we speak of ethnicity. If this person berig cannot do that, I will add an Ockham's razor interpretation. For foreigners reading this stuff I can explain the question in hand with some thoughts about the king of England. We know now that there have been many kings of England, who could be described not exactually as English. This is the problem with this article; it tries to say that a king of Sweden had to be approved by a deciding force from around mälaren, but present day historians do not agree. This is an extremely difficult question for provincialists, but not for others. Foreigners will understand it easily when they think of the heptarchy. No one has said that London always has to be on top. In fact, present day medieval Swedish historians look towards foreign examples for to understand the creation of the ethnicity of Sweden.- 01:23, 28 October 2007 85.224.199.102
I think the article should point out that the Geats are more than likely to be a Gothic tribe, just not the Goths of Europe. Gapts are also Gothic and the Ostrogoths and Visigoths were not actually called Goths by themselves. The Ostrogoths were called 'Greuthung'. The Visigoths and Ostrogoths are merely the Gothic tribes who migrated to Europe. King Óðinn The Aesir 15:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Geat also occurs in the Anglo-Saxon royal genealogies, as the son of Tatwa or Taetwa. In the List of kings of the Angles, he is the father of Godwulf. Geat is said the have been worshipped as a god. / Pieter Kuiper ( talk) 22:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I had removed the peacock terms claiming "general identification" of ethnonyms. Of course, Berig reverted this, stating in the edit summery the identification of the two forms as the same name is not debated by anyone. But even Berig does not know everything. Jane Acomb Leake proposed that the ethnonym i Beowulf might ultimately originate from the ancient Getae. And nowadays, the general attitude seems to be not to make simple one-to-one identifications. / Pieter Kuiper ( talk) 20:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I was just skimming the article and noticed the following random inappropriateness under "Early History", under "History":
The earliest mention of the suck my dick may appear in Ptolemy (2nd century A.D.) [...] [emphasis added]
I don't have an account for editing, but obviously I suggest this be removed. Cheers. 99.245.216.89 ( talk) 01:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
It says: "when the Geats were finally subdued by the Swedes" well it happend in the 17th century when the Swedish history was rewritten in Uppsala, Uppland. I haven´t heard of any conqurer who puts the aristocracy of the conqured land on their own throne for centuries. I belive Geats subdued or incorpareted the Sweones and kept a Geat on the throne. The Sweones then changed their administrative system to the same as the Geats(hundare to härad). Between the 12th and 14th century the importance of the eastern part of the kingdom increases, the Geat Birger Jarl is forced to found Stockholm. During the centuries the this shift continues and the center of the kingdom moves to Stockholm and the Geat aristocracy slowly loses alot of its influence. (Good luck)
At the beginning of the entry the pronunciation is given for Old English, Old Norse etc. but not for current English: I believe it is pronounced roughly "geets" (like "greets") but someone competent could kindly add the exact phonetic form? 93.36.213.29 ( talk) 10:41, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Explain why it makes no sense please. And why should your sentence be in the middle of a paragraph about something else? -- Danog-76 ( talk) 19:13, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Where, please, do we find a common English word spelled "Geat" or "Geats" anywhere else (reliable) besides Wikipedia? As late as the mid 1980s not one respectable encyclopedia or dictionary recognized any such term. What happened and when? The "Etymology" section of this article does not address the name of the article at all. Isn't that usual and rather odd?. When did it begin to be used, by whom, etc etc etc? --
SergeWoodzing (
talk) 22:32, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Why is it neccessary to use personally offensive (and grossly exaggerated) wording like "pet crusade all over Wikipedia" and "one person to run around tagging articles"? Can we please concentrate on the main issue without getting belligerent? I have crossed out the 1980s part. Please answer the main question! Give a source for the origin of the word "Geat", please! Why is it spelled that way and where dit it come from in that spelling? Most Swedes I've talked to for tha last 50 years find it very strange. Can you please help? -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 21:25, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Please answer the main question! Give a source for the origin of the word "Geat", please! Why is it spelled that way and where dit it come from in that spelling? That's etymology. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 22:46, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've now attempted to fine-tune the source issue by adding what many others seem to feel is a fact, to that sentence, and asking for a source for that. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 04:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Could anyone tell me the source of the thesis with the correspondences in Old Norse (gautar) - Swedish (götar) - Old English (brauð - bröd - brēad ...). Who wrote about it? Kind regards-- 88.72.0.127 ( talk) 09:41, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
@ Alphathon: wanted a clarification of the etymology. I'll try my best, but I'm not sure if I'm up for a proper rewrite of the text: The basic meaning of both "geat" or "goth" is "to pour". The generally accepted interpretation of this is that it means "those who pour their seed", i.e. "the men". Another interpretation, now seen as unlikely, is that it has something to do with rivers pouring forth into a sea.
Andejons ( talk) 10:04, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
There are two ')'s and three '('s. What exactly belongs on the other side of and in the phrase "and sometimes Goths"? Looks like someone made a clumsy deletion. — Tamfang ( talk) 07:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
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I don't approve of removal of text, and it looks like an attempt to tidy up the history section here and make the history of Sweden at the time look simpler and tidier than it was. Moreover, I disapprove of the removal of Götaland theory. It is a highly influential movement and it renders a controversial topic even more toxic. I guess most people in Sweden who are interested in medieval history have met a lot of people who actually believe that the Götaland theory is not fringe.-- Berig (talk) 15:11, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Also, an interesting influence of the Götaland theory together with the old Gothicismus movement, is a quite common perception that Swedes and Geats entered a union and came up with the idea of a new country named "Sweden" (in the 13th century?), which implies that the old form Svearike is a completely different name from the later form Sverige. For a linguist this may seem rather absurd, considering how many different forms of the name Svearike/Sverige that existed, and the fact that the name is attested from at least around the year 1000, and may predate it by almost three centuries (Beowulf). Naturally the article has to accept that for reasons of NPOV, but we don't have to remove information from the article or make things look much simpler than they are.-- Berig (talk) 15:27, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
I understand some may feel that the discontinuity view is paramount here, i.e. that the late medieval Swedish kingdom, must be separated and isolated conceptually from the early medieval Swedish kingdom. I understand that because they were two very different entities. In the early middle ages, it was a loosely organized pagan Germanic kingdom, while in the late middle ages, it was a centralized Christian kingdom. Enormous changes took place and it makes sense to separate the concepts. In Sweden this is often done by calling the early kingdom Svitjod and the late kingdom Sverige. However, this is English WP and Svitjod is usually translated as Sweden.-- Berig (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Lastly, if this article is ever going to become a good and stable article, it will not be by removing things. It will be by presenting the topic in all its messiness and toxicity.-- Berig (talk) 16:01, 18 August 2021 (UTC)