This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I've removed some statements from the lead for violating WP:LEADCITE and WP:BLP. The article only has one quote where he appears to promote violence, and I couldn't find any others after a quick search; also this isn't the reason he's notable. He was banned from Facebook and Twitter for being the leader of the Proud Boys, a "violent extremist group", and his YouTube channel was banned for violating copyright. Falling Gravity 04:17, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
Any statements about living persons that are challenged or likely to be challenged must have an inline citation every time they are mentioned, including within the lead." Since McInnes is a living person, this obviously applies to him. As I mentioned before, we only have one quote where he appears to promote violence, and this isn't the reason he's notable. Falling Gravity 05:48, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
McInnes has a well documented and long-running record of blatantly promoting violence and making threats. "We will kill you. That's the Proud Boys in a nutshell. We will kill you," he said on his Compound Media show in mid-2016. His followers often repeat his calls for violence and seemed especially emboldened this past summer as they participated in a number of large-scale "free speech" rallies across the country.
It's that violence that the Proud Boys have become best known for, with the group even boasting of a "tactical defensive arm" known as the Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights (or "FOAK") reportedly with McInnes's backing. McInnes made a video praising the use of violence this June, saying, "What's the matter with fighting? Fighting solves everything. The war on fighting is the same as the war on masculinity."
'People say if someone's fighting, go get a teacher. No, if someone's f---ing up your sister, put them in the hospital.'- This quote and others were cited as useful for explaining his worldview by The Independent in October 2018.
( edit conflict)as per very frequent recent guidance on the WP:ABOUTSELF statements of untrustworthy figures, those statements must be contextualized. Simply presenting them as a counter-point may be giving them WP:UNDUE weight, and introducing WP:FRINGE statements into the article. Simonm223 ( talk) 19:01, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
he claims such violence is only in self-defense." Generally I try to stay away from WP:CLAIM, but in some cases it may be warranted, especially if you look at how these statements are treated in the articles. The same tactic is employed in the previous sentence, which has GM's dubious claim that the Proud Boys has not ties to white supremacy. Just because we include his statements doesn't mean that's a wholesale endorsement. Once again, we can let the reader decide. Falling Gravity 06:00, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
only self defense"). Do reliable sources indicate why this would matter? Respecting BLP means context and due weight, and this appears to be pretty light-weight. Grayfell ( talk) 20:15, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Nblund, thank you for adding reliably sourced information to the article. It boggles my mind that so many Wikipedia editors want to preserve false and unreferenced information in this article. Falling Gravity 02:28, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The proud boys is not a neo fascist group. it is no more then a drinking club. 89.160.152.82 ( talk) 18:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/08/fbi-says-proud-boys-are-not-an-extremist-group-after-all/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.143.67.185 ( talk) 13:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Please remove content where huffpost is the citing entity. This is not a credible source and is an anti conservative outlet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.143.67.185 ( talk) 13:54, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Could someone please add an Oxford comma to this sentence:
A mess of subjunctive and subordinate clauses and passive sentences, like "he followed Vice which he also founded." Gonna try to fix and appreciate the help. -- FeldBum ( talk) 21:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
An editor is attempting to make major changes to the article which have the effect of whitewashing it, contrary to the reliably sourced material currently there. For instance, the "far-right" descriptor is removed, and the Proud Boys are described as a "fraternal organization". The edit is also edit warring (against three editors, two of whom are admins) to keep the material in the article. This section has been opened so that the editor can make their argument as to why these POV edits should be accepted. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 18:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why this page continues to be reverted back to a version in which Gavin's political description is based off of op-eds and other opinion pieces, when he himself states otherwise. Shouldn't this page apply to the same guidelines as others? It comes off at an admin/editor bias, so I feel that we should all discuss this. ACtheAvantGarde ( talk) 17:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Apparently you're not reading these sources. Op-eds do not trump actual statements and personal claims. There's a lot of "far-right" talk, when in fact, he's done nothing but disassociate himself with the alt-right. What are other admin's opinions on this matter? Obviously the offender is doing to defend themselves, so what do other think? I'm my opinion, this doesn't exactly follow Wiki's guidelines in terms of being fair and factual. ACtheAvantGarde ( talk) 21:02, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Removed "far right" reference as it is incompatible with McInnes having mixed race children. How can you be far right and also be married to an ethnic minority? Ridiculous accusation. S.Staines ( talk) 14:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Yeah I do, they don't comply with the NPOV principle. Please provide non opinion piece references. S.Staines ( talk) 10:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Gavin McInnes is a member of the Knights of Columbus. This seems to be relevant information, due to his Catholic beliefs and the fact that he formed his own male fraternity, and both of them confer 4 degrees for their members. Proud Boys degree levels being modeled after the KoC degrees. 68.198.4.72 ( talk) 14:05, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
In the section Race and ethnicity, it states "in 2018, [McInnes] said there was significant "black violence" in the United States, with 8,000 cases a year of black-on-black murder". Is this statistic wildly wrong or why is this statement quoted in this section? It's implied the statement is racist or at least somehow significant. Without additional context it just sounds like a man quoting a statistic. Is that a noteworthy fact? Also, as far as I've read, the numbers are at least in the ballpark. 46.109.77.155 ( talk) 22:57, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "the son of James McInnes, who later became the Vice-President of Operations at Gallium Visual Systems Inc. – a Canadian defence company now known as Kongsberg Geospatial Ltd.[22] – and Loraine McInnes, a retired business teacher.[23]" to "the son of James McInnes and Loraine McInnes, a retired business teacher.[23]". Source 22 should be removed as it makes no mention of the person referenced whatsoever (James McInnes) or the subject of the article itself (Gavin McInnes). Mazesmerak ( talk) 19:58, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
From the intro paragraph: "McInnes is known for his controversial promotion of violence against political opponents, and has been described as and far-right, although he denies this label."
The "and" should be removed.
The introduction states He has rejected this classification, claiming that the group is "not an extremist group and [does] not have ties with white nationalists". and provides a citation, yet in an interview with with Joel Rogan he stated "I started this gang called the Proud Boys" and elsewhere describes other violent acts he encourages it to commit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G95qjjQaNho - should this be added as a counterpoint? Probably with an original source not a supercut video. LamontCranston ( talk) 15:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
The Proud Boys are not extremists or a gang. They are a social group that has gotten involved with protests to both support the current President and counter protest both Antifa and BLM. If you listen to Gavin, you will know most of what he says is meant in humor and he doesn’t choose his words carefully. JudeTheDude2014 ( talk) 03:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, the article doesn't mention that the SPLC lawsuit was dismissed ( ref). -- 190.134.223.76 ( talk) 16:29, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
It seems inappropriate to suggest that the subject is better known for "promoting violence against his political opponents" than he is for co-founding Vice Magazine, the far-right group Proud Boys, or his polemical political commentary. TuffStuffMcG ( talk) 14:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
His founding of Vice and Proud Boys should be top of the list, and you can make the argument that he is far-right, but not an extremist and his rhetoric doesn’t help his “calls to violence.” All the incidents of him or the Proud Boys being violent has been a result of them being attacked first. JudeTheDude2014 ( talk) 03:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I don't like Gavin McInnes because I'm the opposite of him with regard to views but I don't think it's fair to just label people who have views you may find extreme the same as someone who incites violence. 2A02:C7F:4E0B:F400:A180:B24B:A77D:5811 ( talk) 14:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm absolutely against McInnes' hateful views, but I don't think this lead successfully achieves Wikipedia's core value of neutrality. Simply "Gavin McInnes is a Canadian writer and political commentator" would be far better. The violence McInnes has promoted against political opponents is amply discussed in the article itself. Putting an unsourced and negative claim in the lead over far more relevant information like his founding of Vice and the Proud Boys is poor practice (and by getting Wikipedia to weaken its neutrality standards against him, it only gives the provocateur McInnes what he wants). Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8807:C140:259:857B:5809:314D:B87D ( talk) 16:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
In a brief last year I see "Opposition to defendant SPLC's motion by dismiss the lawsuit by controversial right-of-center humorist Gavin McInnes seeking relief for deplatforming and defunding campaign by the Southern Poverty Law Center based on various legal theories of recovery". [1] I don't think we'll be adding that as part of his description! -- Doug Weller talk 12:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In Personal life, please add that he converted to Catholicism after being atheist. https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/blogs/gavin-mcinnes-i-was-a-pro-choice-atheist-then-i-had-kids.-now-im-a-god-fear https://www.patrickcoffin.media/the-banning-of-gavin-mcinnes/
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Gavin McInnes is NOT known for asking for violence... You guys are Liars. Antifa IS known for violence.... 69.165.215.37 ( talk) 21:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
https://abcnews.go.com/US/proud-boys-founder-denies-inciting-violence-responds-feels/story?id=59758209 TuffStuffMcG ( talk) 22:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
The third sentence into Gavin McInnes Wikipedia bio refers to the group the "Proud Boys" as "neo-fascist" using two footnotes as substantiation of the label. See:
he has drawn attention for his far-right political activism and his role as the founder of the Proud Boys, a neo-fascist political group.[1][2]
[1] "Founder of Proud Boys hate group shows up at hospital rally to support Trump". The Independent. 4 October 2020. Retrieved 12 October 2020. [2] "Swiping Right: The Allure of Hyper Masculinity and Cryptofascism for Men Who Join the Proud Boys". ResearchGate. Retrieved 12 October 2020.
The first footnote engages in ad hominem attacks on the group calling it "anti-Muslin" and "white nationalistic."
The second footnote relies on an academia paper that calls McInnes a "racist" after making the comment (in the fifth paragraph) that 25% of Muslims thought that suicide bombing was "sometimes or often justified." The source of the statistic wasn't mentioned but nonetheless the author labels McInnes as a racist for that alone.
None of the above are substantial evidence that the Proud Boys are a "neo-facist" group and the description should be qualified as being mere opinion of two individuals.
Nicki_Toretto ( talk) 04:04, 20 January 2021 (UTC)Pitz
[...] groups such as the protofascist Proud Boys [...].
Proud Boys [...] advance a fascist politic [...].
[...] the hate-filled, far-right neo-fascist organization, Proud Boys.
Conclusion: Proud Boys represent a new face of far-right extremism. [...] This study explored the pull factors surrounding recruitment, the ways members describe precarity, and the communicative features that mark the group as a violent, cryptofascist extremist organization.
Some were aligned with the neofascist Proud Boys …
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Gavin is not a neo-fascist. The words “neo-fascist” and “terrorist” are not factually correct.
He is pro democracy and pro capitalism. The proud boys are a patriotic group that includes all races. There is not a single instance of Gavin being a literal terrorist. 71.75.144.221 ( talk) 12:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Why is McInnes' name italicized in the main article itself? I can't find any italicization header template to remove. Love of Corey ( talk) 08:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Gavin McInnes is a very controversial figure at least in my home country (the US). Can someone make this article an extended-confirm protection for a little while? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caustic3 ( talk • contribs) 16:45, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
As a liberal, I can't take seriously wikipedia's use of the "far right" label. You can't use mainstream media as a legit source of information for these kinds of characterizations. If wikipedia wants to be a serious encyclopedia, it can't at the same time default to corporate media esp. for political characterizations and commentary, as they are, for the most part, unable to be objective. You have to do the due-diligence and take the primary datum/data (and there's plenty out of there) of Gavin and make a determination based on that information if he qualifies as such or not. The reasonable conclusion would be the he does not, albeit being well on the right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.4.126 ( talk) 05:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
We should not be primary sourcing involvement with white supremacists. There's no source for him writing in VDARE (so it either needs one or needs removed) and the source for him writing in American Renaissance is a link to American renaissance, which is both primary (and thus OR) and also a white supremacist website which we should not use as a source for obvious reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.20.240.157 ( talk) 10:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "designated as a terrorist group in Canada.[4][5]" to " designated as a terrorist group in Canada and New Zealand". Bpbillie ( talk) 14:12, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The claim that Gavin Mclnnes is actually incorrect. Mclnnes has never participated in the Fascist party of America. Carter Houston ( talk) 20:53, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Proud boys are listed as a far-right neo-fascist group. It should read as just a far-right group, or a far-right group that some have claimed is neo-fascistic. They would not consider themselves neo-fascists although some on the left might make it a disputable argument. In the article, it's listed as a fact and that is incorrect. Jnorwalt ( talk) 18:51, 22 August 2022 (UTC)Jnorwalt
Gavin announced on his Jan 24, 2022 episode of Get Off My Lawn that he has been granted American citizenship. Bio should be updated to label him as Canadian-American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tummler123 ( talk • contribs) 02:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
I will address and edit this in the near future. Machiavellian Gaddafi ( talk) 09:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Eg "His show covers topics such as Atheism, propaganda within mainstream media, and ethnic conflict.", courtesy of the same editor that added the comment about mainstream media here. At best we need to say something like "alleged". Doug Weller talk 13:11, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
In the "Judaism" section of the article, the following line appears: "In March 2017, during a trip to Israel with The Rebel Media, McInnes was accused of defending Holocaust deniers, holding Jews as being responsible for the Holodomor and the Treaty of Versailles, saying he was "becoming anti-Semitic". He later said his comments were taken out of context."
The Youtube video used a source does not feature McInnes accusing the Jews of committing the Holodomor or of orchestrating the treaty of Versailles, nor does it depict any accusation towards McInnes that he believes such. Rather, the video depicts McInnes himself, stating that he believes the Holodomor and the Treaty of Versailles were not orchestrated by Jews. Therefore, I suggest removing all reference to Versailles and the Holodomor, as I do not think it is relevant that McInnes does not believe that the Jews were responsible for the Holodomor.
Furthermore, I find it misleading that the section on "Judaism" begins with allegations of antisemitism, when in fact McInnes is a vocal Zionist and philo-semite, and was employed by a pro-Israel media-organization, headed by a Jewish man (Ezra Levant) when he made these comments (the video used as a source for the Versailles/Holodomor claim were produced by this company.) In the video that is used as a source for the "becoming antisemitic" comment, McInnes also makes the claim that he was not paid by the state of Israel to visit the country, or to make positive comments about it, which is also a common accusation levelled at McInnes. I find this just as relevant a detail regarding McInnes' position on "Judaism" as the many accusations and denials of antisemitism.
Furthermore, I think the entire section title, "Judaism", is somewhat inappropriate, as it suggests that the section pertains to the religion, while it mainly refers to McInnes' remarks on Zionism and Jews as a people. I would suggest changing the title of the section to something along the lines of "Jews and Zionism". Harry Sibelius ( talk) 10:07, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
There's a good bit talking about how Gavin potentially harbors white supremacist views. I think it might be worthwhile to mention in this section of the article, in the context of these racist quotes, that he has been married to someone who isn't white for nearly 20 years, which is definitely relevant to these quotes and shouldn't be relegated to the very bottom of the article. There's also the fact his co-host of many years is an Asian American, which is relevant because there's quite a few quotes here that were said at the expense of Asians. Binglederry ( talk) 04:46, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Why is there no citation for the 2 times you are claiming he concerted to catholicism and is a member of the knights of Columbus? I get that it fits a particular narrative that wikipedia promotes, but it seems weird to make such a specific claim and then not be able to substantiate it. 96.8.248.37 ( talk) 01:01, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I've removed some statements from the lead for violating WP:LEADCITE and WP:BLP. The article only has one quote where he appears to promote violence, and I couldn't find any others after a quick search; also this isn't the reason he's notable. He was banned from Facebook and Twitter for being the leader of the Proud Boys, a "violent extremist group", and his YouTube channel was banned for violating copyright. Falling Gravity 04:17, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
Any statements about living persons that are challenged or likely to be challenged must have an inline citation every time they are mentioned, including within the lead." Since McInnes is a living person, this obviously applies to him. As I mentioned before, we only have one quote where he appears to promote violence, and this isn't the reason he's notable. Falling Gravity 05:48, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
McInnes has a well documented and long-running record of blatantly promoting violence and making threats. "We will kill you. That's the Proud Boys in a nutshell. We will kill you," he said on his Compound Media show in mid-2016. His followers often repeat his calls for violence and seemed especially emboldened this past summer as they participated in a number of large-scale "free speech" rallies across the country.
It's that violence that the Proud Boys have become best known for, with the group even boasting of a "tactical defensive arm" known as the Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights (or "FOAK") reportedly with McInnes's backing. McInnes made a video praising the use of violence this June, saying, "What's the matter with fighting? Fighting solves everything. The war on fighting is the same as the war on masculinity."
'People say if someone's fighting, go get a teacher. No, if someone's f---ing up your sister, put them in the hospital.'- This quote and others were cited as useful for explaining his worldview by The Independent in October 2018.
( edit conflict)as per very frequent recent guidance on the WP:ABOUTSELF statements of untrustworthy figures, those statements must be contextualized. Simply presenting them as a counter-point may be giving them WP:UNDUE weight, and introducing WP:FRINGE statements into the article. Simonm223 ( talk) 19:01, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
he claims such violence is only in self-defense." Generally I try to stay away from WP:CLAIM, but in some cases it may be warranted, especially if you look at how these statements are treated in the articles. The same tactic is employed in the previous sentence, which has GM's dubious claim that the Proud Boys has not ties to white supremacy. Just because we include his statements doesn't mean that's a wholesale endorsement. Once again, we can let the reader decide. Falling Gravity 06:00, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
only self defense"). Do reliable sources indicate why this would matter? Respecting BLP means context and due weight, and this appears to be pretty light-weight. Grayfell ( talk) 20:15, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Nblund, thank you for adding reliably sourced information to the article. It boggles my mind that so many Wikipedia editors want to preserve false and unreferenced information in this article. Falling Gravity 02:28, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The proud boys is not a neo fascist group. it is no more then a drinking club. 89.160.152.82 ( talk) 18:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/08/fbi-says-proud-boys-are-not-an-extremist-group-after-all/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.143.67.185 ( talk) 13:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Please remove content where huffpost is the citing entity. This is not a credible source and is an anti conservative outlet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.143.67.185 ( talk) 13:54, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Could someone please add an Oxford comma to this sentence:
A mess of subjunctive and subordinate clauses and passive sentences, like "he followed Vice which he also founded." Gonna try to fix and appreciate the help. -- FeldBum ( talk) 21:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
An editor is attempting to make major changes to the article which have the effect of whitewashing it, contrary to the reliably sourced material currently there. For instance, the "far-right" descriptor is removed, and the Proud Boys are described as a "fraternal organization". The edit is also edit warring (against three editors, two of whom are admins) to keep the material in the article. This section has been opened so that the editor can make their argument as to why these POV edits should be accepted. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 18:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why this page continues to be reverted back to a version in which Gavin's political description is based off of op-eds and other opinion pieces, when he himself states otherwise. Shouldn't this page apply to the same guidelines as others? It comes off at an admin/editor bias, so I feel that we should all discuss this. ACtheAvantGarde ( talk) 17:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Apparently you're not reading these sources. Op-eds do not trump actual statements and personal claims. There's a lot of "far-right" talk, when in fact, he's done nothing but disassociate himself with the alt-right. What are other admin's opinions on this matter? Obviously the offender is doing to defend themselves, so what do other think? I'm my opinion, this doesn't exactly follow Wiki's guidelines in terms of being fair and factual. ACtheAvantGarde ( talk) 21:02, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Removed "far right" reference as it is incompatible with McInnes having mixed race children. How can you be far right and also be married to an ethnic minority? Ridiculous accusation. S.Staines ( talk) 14:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Yeah I do, they don't comply with the NPOV principle. Please provide non opinion piece references. S.Staines ( talk) 10:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Gavin McInnes is a member of the Knights of Columbus. This seems to be relevant information, due to his Catholic beliefs and the fact that he formed his own male fraternity, and both of them confer 4 degrees for their members. Proud Boys degree levels being modeled after the KoC degrees. 68.198.4.72 ( talk) 14:05, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
In the section Race and ethnicity, it states "in 2018, [McInnes] said there was significant "black violence" in the United States, with 8,000 cases a year of black-on-black murder". Is this statistic wildly wrong or why is this statement quoted in this section? It's implied the statement is racist or at least somehow significant. Without additional context it just sounds like a man quoting a statistic. Is that a noteworthy fact? Also, as far as I've read, the numbers are at least in the ballpark. 46.109.77.155 ( talk) 22:57, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "the son of James McInnes, who later became the Vice-President of Operations at Gallium Visual Systems Inc. – a Canadian defence company now known as Kongsberg Geospatial Ltd.[22] – and Loraine McInnes, a retired business teacher.[23]" to "the son of James McInnes and Loraine McInnes, a retired business teacher.[23]". Source 22 should be removed as it makes no mention of the person referenced whatsoever (James McInnes) or the subject of the article itself (Gavin McInnes). Mazesmerak ( talk) 19:58, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
From the intro paragraph: "McInnes is known for his controversial promotion of violence against political opponents, and has been described as and far-right, although he denies this label."
The "and" should be removed.
The introduction states He has rejected this classification, claiming that the group is "not an extremist group and [does] not have ties with white nationalists". and provides a citation, yet in an interview with with Joel Rogan he stated "I started this gang called the Proud Boys" and elsewhere describes other violent acts he encourages it to commit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G95qjjQaNho - should this be added as a counterpoint? Probably with an original source not a supercut video. LamontCranston ( talk) 15:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
The Proud Boys are not extremists or a gang. They are a social group that has gotten involved with protests to both support the current President and counter protest both Antifa and BLM. If you listen to Gavin, you will know most of what he says is meant in humor and he doesn’t choose his words carefully. JudeTheDude2014 ( talk) 03:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, the article doesn't mention that the SPLC lawsuit was dismissed ( ref). -- 190.134.223.76 ( talk) 16:29, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
It seems inappropriate to suggest that the subject is better known for "promoting violence against his political opponents" than he is for co-founding Vice Magazine, the far-right group Proud Boys, or his polemical political commentary. TuffStuffMcG ( talk) 14:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
His founding of Vice and Proud Boys should be top of the list, and you can make the argument that he is far-right, but not an extremist and his rhetoric doesn’t help his “calls to violence.” All the incidents of him or the Proud Boys being violent has been a result of them being attacked first. JudeTheDude2014 ( talk) 03:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I don't like Gavin McInnes because I'm the opposite of him with regard to views but I don't think it's fair to just label people who have views you may find extreme the same as someone who incites violence. 2A02:C7F:4E0B:F400:A180:B24B:A77D:5811 ( talk) 14:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm absolutely against McInnes' hateful views, but I don't think this lead successfully achieves Wikipedia's core value of neutrality. Simply "Gavin McInnes is a Canadian writer and political commentator" would be far better. The violence McInnes has promoted against political opponents is amply discussed in the article itself. Putting an unsourced and negative claim in the lead over far more relevant information like his founding of Vice and the Proud Boys is poor practice (and by getting Wikipedia to weaken its neutrality standards against him, it only gives the provocateur McInnes what he wants). Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8807:C140:259:857B:5809:314D:B87D ( talk) 16:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
In a brief last year I see "Opposition to defendant SPLC's motion by dismiss the lawsuit by controversial right-of-center humorist Gavin McInnes seeking relief for deplatforming and defunding campaign by the Southern Poverty Law Center based on various legal theories of recovery". [1] I don't think we'll be adding that as part of his description! -- Doug Weller talk 12:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In Personal life, please add that he converted to Catholicism after being atheist. https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/blogs/gavin-mcinnes-i-was-a-pro-choice-atheist-then-i-had-kids.-now-im-a-god-fear https://www.patrickcoffin.media/the-banning-of-gavin-mcinnes/
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Gavin McInnes is NOT known for asking for violence... You guys are Liars. Antifa IS known for violence.... 69.165.215.37 ( talk) 21:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
https://abcnews.go.com/US/proud-boys-founder-denies-inciting-violence-responds-feels/story?id=59758209 TuffStuffMcG ( talk) 22:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
The third sentence into Gavin McInnes Wikipedia bio refers to the group the "Proud Boys" as "neo-fascist" using two footnotes as substantiation of the label. See:
he has drawn attention for his far-right political activism and his role as the founder of the Proud Boys, a neo-fascist political group.[1][2]
[1] "Founder of Proud Boys hate group shows up at hospital rally to support Trump". The Independent. 4 October 2020. Retrieved 12 October 2020. [2] "Swiping Right: The Allure of Hyper Masculinity and Cryptofascism for Men Who Join the Proud Boys". ResearchGate. Retrieved 12 October 2020.
The first footnote engages in ad hominem attacks on the group calling it "anti-Muslin" and "white nationalistic."
The second footnote relies on an academia paper that calls McInnes a "racist" after making the comment (in the fifth paragraph) that 25% of Muslims thought that suicide bombing was "sometimes or often justified." The source of the statistic wasn't mentioned but nonetheless the author labels McInnes as a racist for that alone.
None of the above are substantial evidence that the Proud Boys are a "neo-facist" group and the description should be qualified as being mere opinion of two individuals.
Nicki_Toretto ( talk) 04:04, 20 January 2021 (UTC)Pitz
[...] groups such as the protofascist Proud Boys [...].
Proud Boys [...] advance a fascist politic [...].
[...] the hate-filled, far-right neo-fascist organization, Proud Boys.
Conclusion: Proud Boys represent a new face of far-right extremism. [...] This study explored the pull factors surrounding recruitment, the ways members describe precarity, and the communicative features that mark the group as a violent, cryptofascist extremist organization.
Some were aligned with the neofascist Proud Boys …
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Gavin is not a neo-fascist. The words “neo-fascist” and “terrorist” are not factually correct.
He is pro democracy and pro capitalism. The proud boys are a patriotic group that includes all races. There is not a single instance of Gavin being a literal terrorist. 71.75.144.221 ( talk) 12:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Why is McInnes' name italicized in the main article itself? I can't find any italicization header template to remove. Love of Corey ( talk) 08:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Gavin McInnes is a very controversial figure at least in my home country (the US). Can someone make this article an extended-confirm protection for a little while? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caustic3 ( talk • contribs) 16:45, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
As a liberal, I can't take seriously wikipedia's use of the "far right" label. You can't use mainstream media as a legit source of information for these kinds of characterizations. If wikipedia wants to be a serious encyclopedia, it can't at the same time default to corporate media esp. for political characterizations and commentary, as they are, for the most part, unable to be objective. You have to do the due-diligence and take the primary datum/data (and there's plenty out of there) of Gavin and make a determination based on that information if he qualifies as such or not. The reasonable conclusion would be the he does not, albeit being well on the right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.4.126 ( talk) 05:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
We should not be primary sourcing involvement with white supremacists. There's no source for him writing in VDARE (so it either needs one or needs removed) and the source for him writing in American Renaissance is a link to American renaissance, which is both primary (and thus OR) and also a white supremacist website which we should not use as a source for obvious reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.20.240.157 ( talk) 10:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "designated as a terrorist group in Canada.[4][5]" to " designated as a terrorist group in Canada and New Zealand". Bpbillie ( talk) 14:12, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The claim that Gavin Mclnnes is actually incorrect. Mclnnes has never participated in the Fascist party of America. Carter Houston ( talk) 20:53, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Proud boys are listed as a far-right neo-fascist group. It should read as just a far-right group, or a far-right group that some have claimed is neo-fascistic. They would not consider themselves neo-fascists although some on the left might make it a disputable argument. In the article, it's listed as a fact and that is incorrect. Jnorwalt ( talk) 18:51, 22 August 2022 (UTC)Jnorwalt
Gavin announced on his Jan 24, 2022 episode of Get Off My Lawn that he has been granted American citizenship. Bio should be updated to label him as Canadian-American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tummler123 ( talk • contribs) 02:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
I will address and edit this in the near future. Machiavellian Gaddafi ( talk) 09:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Eg "His show covers topics such as Atheism, propaganda within mainstream media, and ethnic conflict.", courtesy of the same editor that added the comment about mainstream media here. At best we need to say something like "alleged". Doug Weller talk 13:11, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
In the "Judaism" section of the article, the following line appears: "In March 2017, during a trip to Israel with The Rebel Media, McInnes was accused of defending Holocaust deniers, holding Jews as being responsible for the Holodomor and the Treaty of Versailles, saying he was "becoming anti-Semitic". He later said his comments were taken out of context."
The Youtube video used a source does not feature McInnes accusing the Jews of committing the Holodomor or of orchestrating the treaty of Versailles, nor does it depict any accusation towards McInnes that he believes such. Rather, the video depicts McInnes himself, stating that he believes the Holodomor and the Treaty of Versailles were not orchestrated by Jews. Therefore, I suggest removing all reference to Versailles and the Holodomor, as I do not think it is relevant that McInnes does not believe that the Jews were responsible for the Holodomor.
Furthermore, I find it misleading that the section on "Judaism" begins with allegations of antisemitism, when in fact McInnes is a vocal Zionist and philo-semite, and was employed by a pro-Israel media-organization, headed by a Jewish man (Ezra Levant) when he made these comments (the video used as a source for the Versailles/Holodomor claim were produced by this company.) In the video that is used as a source for the "becoming antisemitic" comment, McInnes also makes the claim that he was not paid by the state of Israel to visit the country, or to make positive comments about it, which is also a common accusation levelled at McInnes. I find this just as relevant a detail regarding McInnes' position on "Judaism" as the many accusations and denials of antisemitism.
Furthermore, I think the entire section title, "Judaism", is somewhat inappropriate, as it suggests that the section pertains to the religion, while it mainly refers to McInnes' remarks on Zionism and Jews as a people. I would suggest changing the title of the section to something along the lines of "Jews and Zionism". Harry Sibelius ( talk) 10:07, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
There's a good bit talking about how Gavin potentially harbors white supremacist views. I think it might be worthwhile to mention in this section of the article, in the context of these racist quotes, that he has been married to someone who isn't white for nearly 20 years, which is definitely relevant to these quotes and shouldn't be relegated to the very bottom of the article. There's also the fact his co-host of many years is an Asian American, which is relevant because there's quite a few quotes here that were said at the expense of Asians. Binglederry ( talk) 04:46, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Gavin McInnes has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Why is there no citation for the 2 times you are claiming he concerted to catholicism and is a member of the knights of Columbus? I get that it fits a particular narrative that wikipedia promotes, but it seems weird to make such a specific claim and then not be able to substantiate it. 96.8.248.37 ( talk) 01:01, 23 May 2023 (UTC)