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I'm pasting in a paragraph, most of which I just removed from cannon. Some of this material may not be in this article yet. — Michael Z. 2005-09-18 21:46 Z
Obviously, a 24-gauge wire doesn't have a 14 mm diameter, which is what I got running the calculation at the top of the page. Perhaps a link to AWG is in order? Jouster 19:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason .410 is always referred to as ".410 bore"? Isn't "bore" just British for "gauge"? It seems to me that .410 is a caliber, just like .38 or .22 or whatever (albeit with a vaguely British third digit). Boris B 02:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
A discussion of the history of the 12 gauge shell, with dates of the introductions of 3" and 3.5" shells, is needed. It may not be appropriate for this article, although the 12 gauge page redirects you here. Yellowking 22:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
How come we have 1,5 bore on the conversion table? Surely it has never been possible to purchase a pound of 1,5 bore rounds? Imagine a half that equals a whole. Gregorydavid 15:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that no article exists on the 12 gauge shotgun shell itself? It makes about as much sense to have 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54R, and 7.62x25mm all deleted, and instead have one neutered "7.62mm" article.
The 12 gauge cartridge's omnipresence in the western world, both military and civilian, should make it deserving enough of it's own informative article. PaZuZu 09:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
hola como estan!!espero q bien yo soy de Tucuman Argentina y soy unos de los grandea jugadores del conter y doy mi comentario.Es muy bueno el conter para mi y kisiera participar en unos de los grandes eventos, bue me despido chauuu!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.137.42.135 ( talk) 02:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I was wondering if someone could volunteer to make all the instances of calibre/caliber match a single spelling. (ie. all 'calibre' or all 'caliber') MoS says it should be consistent, and also advises that it should follow whichever style the article was originally written in. Personally, since I probably won't be reading this discussion page again any time soon, it doesn't seem appropriate to be the one to make the change, but if a regular contributer to the article could bring it up to spec, that'd be appreciated. 139.57.100.104 ( talk) 21:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The link in the references section regarding the Garden Gun appears to be broken. I believe it may be refering to the following article [1]. 68.113.47.181 ( talk) 20:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
In the conversion guide, two different measurements are listed for 4 gauge. Why is this? Cerebellum ( talk) 19:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
FYI! requesting anyone who "has knowledge of guns & not just hearsay" gets said editor accused of original research in most cases — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waptek ( talk • contribs) 22:24, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
...people who don't like the weight and recoil of a 12?
Purely anecdotal, of course, but I distinctly remember the 20 kicking much harder than the 12 last time I was playing around--and this is not an uncommon occurrence, either. But I can't remember the details (it's been five or six years?) and there may have been something odd about the 20 in that case...
Has anyone got a source for comparative recoil?
J.M. Archer ( talk) 22:03, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
The article claimed that:
I find this highly dubious, and in fact potentially dangerous to an inexperienced person who reads it. It is fundamentally improbable that a 10 gauge could outshoot a 3½" 12 gauge for the simple reason that it has a much lower SAAMI maximum pressure limit -- in fact, at 10,000 LUP / 11,000 PSI it is the lowest SAAMI pressure limit for any common shotgun gauge. In contrast, the much more recent 12 ga 3½" was deliberately designed to have a very high SAAMI pressure limit of 14,000 psi. (If you want to calculate pressure x bore area, you can see that the 3½" 12 ga. actually delivers 13% higher maximum force to the base of the wad with a maximum safe load.) Exceeding the SAAMI pressure limit is extremely dangerous. In a well-made gun in excellent condition you might get away with it a few times, perhaps even a few hundred times, but there is no way of telling when it will fail. And when it does, the consequences are far more severe than the tiny advantages of overpressure loads.
Now, I currently have the 1998 Lyman reloading tables open in front of me, and the heaviest listed 10 gauge load is 2¼ oz. -- described as a "magnum load." At SAAMI maximum pressures, loads of this shot weight are already at or slightly below 1200 fps -- and they are a lot lighter than this supposed 3 oz. load. In fact comparing to Lyman's 2 oz. loads, it appears that for similar pressures the extra ¼ oz. costs about 20 to 60 fps (depending on powder burn rate, slower being better here.) Conversely, to retain about the same velocity for the extra ¼ oz. of shot requires a pressure increase of 1400 LUP. Of course such interpolations are always approximate but it does indicate that a 3 ounce load that produced a m.v. of 1200 fps would be massively, dangerously overpressure: possibly somewhere around 13,800 LUP. Thus it is extremely likely that a load capable of pushing 3 oz. of shot to 1200 fps in a 10 gauge barrel would blow up a significant fraction of guns.
Because my Lyman's is 12 years old, I also checked some up to date figures on-line at Hodgdon's website: http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp They are pretty much the same: no 10 gauge data for loads heavier than 2¼oz., and loads that produce m.v. around 1200 fps are already at or close to SAAMI max for 2¼oz; they have no chance of reaching 3 oz. without producing exceedingly dangerous pressures.
Also, all this is strictly with lead shot. For the same shot weight, a lower shot density exacerbates pressure problems (because they have less initial expansion room in the chamber), and so the situation is significantly worse with the non-toxic shot that was the reason the 10 had a revival. None of the powder companies that I can find publish a bismuth load for 10 gauge that is more than 2 oz., and for 2 oz. bismuth loads we are already reaching SAAMI max at 1200 fps.
So unless someone can come up with a highly reliable cite to substantiate this very improbable claim, I think it should be removed -- and quickly, before someone gets hurt. -- 203.20.101.203 ( talk) 04:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I've done some snooping around myself and, like you, I can find nothing to corroborate the claim. Sounds like an exaggeration of something that might have been done once, when the stars were aligned just right in the sky. For the sake of safety, as well as the fact it's directly contradictory with other parts of the paragraph, I have removed the claim. If, at a later date, someone can prove otherwise, then the statement can be reinstated, but I find that highly unlikely.
For the sake of completeness in this investigation, I've tracked down the revision where the claim was added: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gauge_%28bore_diameter%29&oldid=329649671 The claim was the only thing added/changed, and the user has no other edits to their name. Make of that what you will. -- RagnarokEOTW ( talk) 14:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Have reverted back to the November 20th, 2017 version, today, as the removal of all the British information is not appropriate. Much of the technology and terminology of shotguns was developed in the UK during the 19th Century. Additionally, the "bore" terminology dates back to before the Express rifles, the quintessential elephant guns, of the the 19th Century. We really shouldn't be making this solely American English, but should retain the British English terminology of "bore" and of the English shotgun gauges. More discussion is needed before this information is simply removed. Thanks! Miguel Escopeta ( talk) 20:07, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
The gauge of firearms is determined by. 1 Pound / Gauge = Weight of lead sphere. Caliber of lead sphere is then measured. This is essential information for understanding gauges.
1 Pound / Gauge = Weight of lead sphere | Caliber of lead sphere is then measured | ||
---|---|---|---|
gauge | pounds | mm | inches |
0.25 | 4 | 67.34 | 2.651 |
0.5 | 2 | 53.45 | 2.103 |
0.75 | 1 1/3 | 46.70 | 1.838 |
1 | 1 | 42.42 | 1.669 |
1.5 | 2/3 | 37.05 | 1.459 |
2 | 1/2 | 33.67 | 1.326 |
3 | 1/3 | 29.41 | 1.158 |
4 | 1/4 | 26.72 | 1.052 |
5 | 1/5 | 24.80 | .976 |
6 | 1/6 | 23.35 | .919 |
6.278 | 1/6.278 | 23.00 | .906 |
7 | 1/7 | 22.18 | .873 |
8 | 1/8 | 21.21 | .835 |
9 | 1/9 | 20.39 | .803 |
10 | 1/10 | 19.69 | .775 |
11 | 1/11 | 19.07 | .751 |
12 | 1/12 | 18.53 | .729 |
13 | 1/13 | 18.04 | .710 |
14 | 1/14 | 17.60 | .693 |
15 | 1/15 | 17.21 | .677 |
16 | 1/16 | 16.83 | .663 |
17 | 1/17 | 16.50 | .650 |
18 | 1/18 | 16.19 | .637 |
20 | 1/20 | 15.63 | .615 |
22 | 1/22 | 15.13 | .596 |
24 | 1/24 | 14.70 | .579 |
26 | 1/26 | 14.31 | .564 |
28 | 1/28 | 13.97 | .550 |
32 | 1/32 | 13.36 | .526 |
36 | 1/36 | 12.85 | .506 |
40 | 1/40 | 12.40 | .488 |
67.62 | 1/67.62 | 10.41 | .410 |
The 22 rimfire flobert rounds were very popular in saloons and bars up until the early 1900's (I think but will have to recheck the sources i read it from) but i do know that indoor shooting games were as prominent in bars, much like pool tables can be found in bars today. 174.247.236.34 ( talk) 17:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
I'm pasting in a paragraph, most of which I just removed from cannon. Some of this material may not be in this article yet. — Michael Z. 2005-09-18 21:46 Z
Obviously, a 24-gauge wire doesn't have a 14 mm diameter, which is what I got running the calculation at the top of the page. Perhaps a link to AWG is in order? Jouster 19:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason .410 is always referred to as ".410 bore"? Isn't "bore" just British for "gauge"? It seems to me that .410 is a caliber, just like .38 or .22 or whatever (albeit with a vaguely British third digit). Boris B 02:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
A discussion of the history of the 12 gauge shell, with dates of the introductions of 3" and 3.5" shells, is needed. It may not be appropriate for this article, although the 12 gauge page redirects you here. Yellowking 22:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
How come we have 1,5 bore on the conversion table? Surely it has never been possible to purchase a pound of 1,5 bore rounds? Imagine a half that equals a whole. Gregorydavid 15:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that no article exists on the 12 gauge shotgun shell itself? It makes about as much sense to have 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54R, and 7.62x25mm all deleted, and instead have one neutered "7.62mm" article.
The 12 gauge cartridge's omnipresence in the western world, both military and civilian, should make it deserving enough of it's own informative article. PaZuZu 09:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
hola como estan!!espero q bien yo soy de Tucuman Argentina y soy unos de los grandea jugadores del conter y doy mi comentario.Es muy bueno el conter para mi y kisiera participar en unos de los grandes eventos, bue me despido chauuu!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.137.42.135 ( talk) 02:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I was wondering if someone could volunteer to make all the instances of calibre/caliber match a single spelling. (ie. all 'calibre' or all 'caliber') MoS says it should be consistent, and also advises that it should follow whichever style the article was originally written in. Personally, since I probably won't be reading this discussion page again any time soon, it doesn't seem appropriate to be the one to make the change, but if a regular contributer to the article could bring it up to spec, that'd be appreciated. 139.57.100.104 ( talk) 21:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The link in the references section regarding the Garden Gun appears to be broken. I believe it may be refering to the following article [1]. 68.113.47.181 ( talk) 20:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
In the conversion guide, two different measurements are listed for 4 gauge. Why is this? Cerebellum ( talk) 19:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
FYI! requesting anyone who "has knowledge of guns & not just hearsay" gets said editor accused of original research in most cases — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waptek ( talk • contribs) 22:24, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
...people who don't like the weight and recoil of a 12?
Purely anecdotal, of course, but I distinctly remember the 20 kicking much harder than the 12 last time I was playing around--and this is not an uncommon occurrence, either. But I can't remember the details (it's been five or six years?) and there may have been something odd about the 20 in that case...
Has anyone got a source for comparative recoil?
J.M. Archer ( talk) 22:03, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
The article claimed that:
I find this highly dubious, and in fact potentially dangerous to an inexperienced person who reads it. It is fundamentally improbable that a 10 gauge could outshoot a 3½" 12 gauge for the simple reason that it has a much lower SAAMI maximum pressure limit -- in fact, at 10,000 LUP / 11,000 PSI it is the lowest SAAMI pressure limit for any common shotgun gauge. In contrast, the much more recent 12 ga 3½" was deliberately designed to have a very high SAAMI pressure limit of 14,000 psi. (If you want to calculate pressure x bore area, you can see that the 3½" 12 ga. actually delivers 13% higher maximum force to the base of the wad with a maximum safe load.) Exceeding the SAAMI pressure limit is extremely dangerous. In a well-made gun in excellent condition you might get away with it a few times, perhaps even a few hundred times, but there is no way of telling when it will fail. And when it does, the consequences are far more severe than the tiny advantages of overpressure loads.
Now, I currently have the 1998 Lyman reloading tables open in front of me, and the heaviest listed 10 gauge load is 2¼ oz. -- described as a "magnum load." At SAAMI maximum pressures, loads of this shot weight are already at or slightly below 1200 fps -- and they are a lot lighter than this supposed 3 oz. load. In fact comparing to Lyman's 2 oz. loads, it appears that for similar pressures the extra ¼ oz. costs about 20 to 60 fps (depending on powder burn rate, slower being better here.) Conversely, to retain about the same velocity for the extra ¼ oz. of shot requires a pressure increase of 1400 LUP. Of course such interpolations are always approximate but it does indicate that a 3 ounce load that produced a m.v. of 1200 fps would be massively, dangerously overpressure: possibly somewhere around 13,800 LUP. Thus it is extremely likely that a load capable of pushing 3 oz. of shot to 1200 fps in a 10 gauge barrel would blow up a significant fraction of guns.
Because my Lyman's is 12 years old, I also checked some up to date figures on-line at Hodgdon's website: http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp They are pretty much the same: no 10 gauge data for loads heavier than 2¼oz., and loads that produce m.v. around 1200 fps are already at or close to SAAMI max for 2¼oz; they have no chance of reaching 3 oz. without producing exceedingly dangerous pressures.
Also, all this is strictly with lead shot. For the same shot weight, a lower shot density exacerbates pressure problems (because they have less initial expansion room in the chamber), and so the situation is significantly worse with the non-toxic shot that was the reason the 10 had a revival. None of the powder companies that I can find publish a bismuth load for 10 gauge that is more than 2 oz., and for 2 oz. bismuth loads we are already reaching SAAMI max at 1200 fps.
So unless someone can come up with a highly reliable cite to substantiate this very improbable claim, I think it should be removed -- and quickly, before someone gets hurt. -- 203.20.101.203 ( talk) 04:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I've done some snooping around myself and, like you, I can find nothing to corroborate the claim. Sounds like an exaggeration of something that might have been done once, when the stars were aligned just right in the sky. For the sake of safety, as well as the fact it's directly contradictory with other parts of the paragraph, I have removed the claim. If, at a later date, someone can prove otherwise, then the statement can be reinstated, but I find that highly unlikely.
For the sake of completeness in this investigation, I've tracked down the revision where the claim was added: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gauge_%28bore_diameter%29&oldid=329649671 The claim was the only thing added/changed, and the user has no other edits to their name. Make of that what you will. -- RagnarokEOTW ( talk) 14:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Have reverted back to the November 20th, 2017 version, today, as the removal of all the British information is not appropriate. Much of the technology and terminology of shotguns was developed in the UK during the 19th Century. Additionally, the "bore" terminology dates back to before the Express rifles, the quintessential elephant guns, of the the 19th Century. We really shouldn't be making this solely American English, but should retain the British English terminology of "bore" and of the English shotgun gauges. More discussion is needed before this information is simply removed. Thanks! Miguel Escopeta ( talk) 20:07, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
The gauge of firearms is determined by. 1 Pound / Gauge = Weight of lead sphere. Caliber of lead sphere is then measured. This is essential information for understanding gauges.
1 Pound / Gauge = Weight of lead sphere | Caliber of lead sphere is then measured | ||
---|---|---|---|
gauge | pounds | mm | inches |
0.25 | 4 | 67.34 | 2.651 |
0.5 | 2 | 53.45 | 2.103 |
0.75 | 1 1/3 | 46.70 | 1.838 |
1 | 1 | 42.42 | 1.669 |
1.5 | 2/3 | 37.05 | 1.459 |
2 | 1/2 | 33.67 | 1.326 |
3 | 1/3 | 29.41 | 1.158 |
4 | 1/4 | 26.72 | 1.052 |
5 | 1/5 | 24.80 | .976 |
6 | 1/6 | 23.35 | .919 |
6.278 | 1/6.278 | 23.00 | .906 |
7 | 1/7 | 22.18 | .873 |
8 | 1/8 | 21.21 | .835 |
9 | 1/9 | 20.39 | .803 |
10 | 1/10 | 19.69 | .775 |
11 | 1/11 | 19.07 | .751 |
12 | 1/12 | 18.53 | .729 |
13 | 1/13 | 18.04 | .710 |
14 | 1/14 | 17.60 | .693 |
15 | 1/15 | 17.21 | .677 |
16 | 1/16 | 16.83 | .663 |
17 | 1/17 | 16.50 | .650 |
18 | 1/18 | 16.19 | .637 |
20 | 1/20 | 15.63 | .615 |
22 | 1/22 | 15.13 | .596 |
24 | 1/24 | 14.70 | .579 |
26 | 1/26 | 14.31 | .564 |
28 | 1/28 | 13.97 | .550 |
32 | 1/32 | 13.36 | .526 |
36 | 1/36 | 12.85 | .506 |
40 | 1/40 | 12.40 | .488 |
67.62 | 1/67.62 | 10.41 | .410 |
The 22 rimfire flobert rounds were very popular in saloons and bars up until the early 1900's (I think but will have to recheck the sources i read it from) but i do know that indoor shooting games were as prominent in bars, much like pool tables can be found in bars today. 174.247.236.34 ( talk) 17:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC)