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I believe that the following articles should be merged into this one; the topics, because they are part of this wider topic; and the biographies, because their subjects are notable only in so far as they are involved in this controversy:
-- Scolaire ( talk) 10:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Note: there was a preliminary dicussion of this merger at WikiProject Ireland. -- Scolaire ( talk) 11:45, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
All the above articles are of reasonable length, but in the case of the biographies in particular, they have been "bulked up" with details that of themselves would not have made the person notable if it had not been for this controversy. Some of the details – Martin Callinan's involvement with previous high-profile cases or John Wilson's aborted entry into politics – can be retained in the merged article. Others, such as personal life, qualifications and awards, are not encyclopaedic in my view. Scolaire ( talk) 11:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
@ Autarch: @ This is Paul: Being Garda Commissioner does not make a person notable per se. Noel Conroy is tagged for notablity. Fachtna Murphy is not, but could as easily be. Regardless of what happens here, I intend to nominate both those articles for deletion. No other recent Garda Commissioner has an article, even Patrick McLaughlin or Edmund Garvey, who also left office amid controversy. The content in the Callinan article not relating to the 2014 affair is almost exclusively drawn from two newspaper articles dealing with the affair. As I say, the facts of the other cases he was involved in can be included in a merged article. But if it hadn't been for this affair, those facts would not have made him notable enough for his own article. The same applies to Gemma O'Doherty – outside of her (peripheral) involvement in this (and even including it) she would fail notability guidelines. Scolaire ( talk) 17:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
@ Tóraí: As far as I am aware John Wilson is not mentioned at all in the Guerin Report, and has no connection with it. The PAC hearings and the Guerin investigation were two separate matters. Scolaire ( talk) 16:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
There were numerous scandals in 2014 relating to the Gardaí. These include: (1) the GSOC bugging scandal; (2) the series of scandals to do with whistle blowers that led to the Guerin Report; (3) the discovery of illegal phone recording at Garda stations.
Does this article intend to conflate these into one? -- Tóraí ( talk) 13:41, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
The controversy over the phone recordings was a direct result of the penalty points controversy.Word of Garda phone recordings emerged separately and after the resignation of Commissioner Callinan (e.g. source). Shatter did not "unwittingly let it slip while debating [the penalty points affair]", as you appear to believe. And the Wikipedia article does not say he did either.
(@ Scolaire, This is Paul, Autarch, and FreeRangeFrog:)
OK, after a discussion with Scolaire on my talk page. How about would others feel about the following:
(As I mentioned above, I think Scolaire was spot on to say to merge the whistle blowers bios into a single article. And he is right that the Guerin Report did not include Wilson, so it is not a suitable page for a merge, contrary to what I initially suggested.)
I think Scolare has a point that there is potential for an article dealing with the confluence of controversies leading to the resignation of the Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner. I would worry that one could be a bit OR-ish because I think there are few sources that treat the controversies as one. A summary article of some kind might be possible. How would others feel?
-- Tóraí ( talk) 16:51, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
(@ 86.45.165.17:) An IP editor has substantially expanded this article. I'm happy on the back of that to rename this article to something like 2013—2014 Garda Síochána controversies. And merge the whistle blowers and Guerin report as above. How does that sound? -- Tóraí ( talk) 18:02, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
I believe that the following articles should be merged into this one; the topics, because they are part of this wider topic; and the biographies, because their subjects are notable only in so far as they are involved in this controversy:
-- Scolaire ( talk) 10:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Note: there was a preliminary dicussion of this merger at WikiProject Ireland. -- Scolaire ( talk) 11:45, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
All the above articles are of reasonable length, but in the case of the biographies in particular, they have been "bulked up" with details that of themselves would not have made the person notable if it had not been for this controversy. Some of the details – Martin Callinan's involvement with previous high-profile cases or John Wilson's aborted entry into politics – can be retained in the merged article. Others, such as personal life, qualifications and awards, are not encyclopaedic in my view. Scolaire ( talk) 11:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
@ Autarch: @ This is Paul: Being Garda Commissioner does not make a person notable per se. Noel Conroy is tagged for notablity. Fachtna Murphy is not, but could as easily be. Regardless of what happens here, I intend to nominate both those articles for deletion. No other recent Garda Commissioner has an article, even Patrick McLaughlin or Edmund Garvey, who also left office amid controversy. The content in the Callinan article not relating to the 2014 affair is almost exclusively drawn from two newspaper articles dealing with the affair. As I say, the facts of the other cases he was involved in can be included in a merged article. But if it hadn't been for this affair, those facts would not have made him notable enough for his own article. The same applies to Gemma O'Doherty – outside of her (peripheral) involvement in this (and even including it) she would fail notability guidelines. Scolaire ( talk) 17:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
@ Tóraí: As far as I am aware John Wilson is not mentioned at all in the Guerin Report, and has no connection with it. The PAC hearings and the Guerin investigation were two separate matters. Scolaire ( talk) 16:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
There were numerous scandals in 2014 relating to the Gardaí. These include: (1) the GSOC bugging scandal; (2) the series of scandals to do with whistle blowers that led to the Guerin Report; (3) the discovery of illegal phone recording at Garda stations.
Does this article intend to conflate these into one? -- Tóraí ( talk) 13:41, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
The controversy over the phone recordings was a direct result of the penalty points controversy.Word of Garda phone recordings emerged separately and after the resignation of Commissioner Callinan (e.g. source). Shatter did not "unwittingly let it slip while debating [the penalty points affair]", as you appear to believe. And the Wikipedia article does not say he did either.
(@ Scolaire, This is Paul, Autarch, and FreeRangeFrog:)
OK, after a discussion with Scolaire on my talk page. How about would others feel about the following:
(As I mentioned above, I think Scolaire was spot on to say to merge the whistle blowers bios into a single article. And he is right that the Guerin Report did not include Wilson, so it is not a suitable page for a merge, contrary to what I initially suggested.)
I think Scolare has a point that there is potential for an article dealing with the confluence of controversies leading to the resignation of the Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner. I would worry that one could be a bit OR-ish because I think there are few sources that treat the controversies as one. A summary article of some kind might be possible. How would others feel?
-- Tóraí ( talk) 16:51, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
(@ 86.45.165.17:) An IP editor has substantially expanded this article. I'm happy on the back of that to rename this article to something like 2013—2014 Garda Síochána controversies. And merge the whistle blowers and Guerin report as above. How does that sound? -- Tóraí ( talk) 18:02, 11 June 2014 (UTC)