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The {{ POV}} tag here resulted from an OTRS email request. The complaint was: POV problem with possibly undue weight being given to a "controversy" section. Mango juice talk 14:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I believe the recent move (from "Gang Tian" to "Tian Gang") was a bad idea. The bulk of Professor Tian's academic work uses American naming conventions, and that is how he is most commonly known (this is standard for Chinese mathematicians working in America). I think the move should be reversed; a similar discussion is happening over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. RayAYang ( talk) 21:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
WP:NC-CHINA says:
Also, WP:NAME says:
I have no reason to disbelieve M. Hardy, a long established user. So it seems to me that if Tian uses the English name order in public and in his publications, it should also be used on Wikipedia. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 00:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Nobody ever refers in English to Gang Tian as Tian Gang. So the move is just wrong. -- C S ( talk) 00:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, fellows. I didn't see this discussion here. If you regard Gang Tian as a Chinese-born, American scientist, there's no problem that the name adopts English order. Just want to point out that Chinese scientists writing their names in English order in their publications is a natural thing. Because the majority of prestigious scientific journals are published in English and outside China, and they need to abide by English rules. Plus, it avoids people call them Mr. Given Name. If you argue the names in Wiki should follow their appearance on scientific journals, then how about other Chinese scientists? There're already hundreds of them existing in Wiki, and their names all start with surnames. I believe when they publish on English journals, they put their given name first. And I believe their most significant work was published on English journals, and western reader knew their names by English order. So shall we convert all those names? It's gonna be a lot of work. Ramtears ( talk) 01:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
The rule is this. If a person lives and works in English speaking country, he/she should be referred by his English name, including order. In this case, I presume he has never published in a Chinese Journal, and is completely unknown to the general public in China. Even if he was known in China, or had worked in China, he would have used his name in Chinese characters, and the Chinese wikipedia could/would/does spell his name in the correct chinese order. Reminds me of when a greek TV station called Schwarznegger an "Austrian" actor. Kotika98 ( talk) 13:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
What's the current affiliation of Professor Tian?It seems he works full-time for Princeton and Part-time for Peking University,right? Rezameyqani ( talk) 10:18, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) B dash ( talk) 10:18, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Tian Gang →
Gang Tian – Virtually all the references cited use Western name order (as is customary for modern era mathematicians that have published in Western journals). There have been several moves in both directions before, all without prior discussion, so maybe we should discuss this to settle it. Note the talk page discussion from 2008 where consensus is also on the side of Western naming order. —
Kusma (
t·
c) 19:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)--Relisting.
B dash (
talk)
00:09, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
I have advertised this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. — Kusma ( t· c) 07:33, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
it is standard practice in English to also present the family name firstand using the English ordering is
an exception. Therefore, there must be convincing evidence to use the English ordering. Yes, most major mathematics publications use (given name, family name) ordering regardless of author origin. However, this is largely for standardization (as well as historical / geographical reasons). Yes, there is a case for many Chinese mathematicians who have spent most of their academic careers in the Western world to count as these exceptions (indeed for most of most well-known Chinese mathematicians from the last half-century), but I do not think that this is one such case. Tian has spent much of his career in China and a significant portion of his activity is there. It is also important to note that many English-language publications in China use "Tian Gang" when referring to him (and also use this order for other people coming from countries using the same order, e.g. Japan, South Korea): Nature Index (written by Peking University), Beijing Normal University, Capital Normal University, Yenching Academy of Peking University. — MarkH21 ( talk) 20:33, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I also don't feel particularly strongly about this in general because the Chinese name template makes the actual family name fairly clear and redirects will send readers to the correct article regardless of which the readers look up. I personally think that the articles should always be named in (family name, given name) order for people from nations using this ordering unless there is clear evidence for their own preference and/or for them being known predominantly, within English-language publications, in the other ordering (e.g. Paul Erdős). But that's more or less what WP:ZHNAME says. It's essentially an issue of controlling WP:BIAS while also following WP:COMMONNAME. — MarkH21 ( talk) 22:59, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The {{ POV}} tag here resulted from an OTRS email request. The complaint was: POV problem with possibly undue weight being given to a "controversy" section. Mango juice talk 14:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I believe the recent move (from "Gang Tian" to "Tian Gang") was a bad idea. The bulk of Professor Tian's academic work uses American naming conventions, and that is how he is most commonly known (this is standard for Chinese mathematicians working in America). I think the move should be reversed; a similar discussion is happening over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. RayAYang ( talk) 21:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
WP:NC-CHINA says:
Also, WP:NAME says:
I have no reason to disbelieve M. Hardy, a long established user. So it seems to me that if Tian uses the English name order in public and in his publications, it should also be used on Wikipedia. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 00:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Nobody ever refers in English to Gang Tian as Tian Gang. So the move is just wrong. -- C S ( talk) 00:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, fellows. I didn't see this discussion here. If you regard Gang Tian as a Chinese-born, American scientist, there's no problem that the name adopts English order. Just want to point out that Chinese scientists writing their names in English order in their publications is a natural thing. Because the majority of prestigious scientific journals are published in English and outside China, and they need to abide by English rules. Plus, it avoids people call them Mr. Given Name. If you argue the names in Wiki should follow their appearance on scientific journals, then how about other Chinese scientists? There're already hundreds of them existing in Wiki, and their names all start with surnames. I believe when they publish on English journals, they put their given name first. And I believe their most significant work was published on English journals, and western reader knew their names by English order. So shall we convert all those names? It's gonna be a lot of work. Ramtears ( talk) 01:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
The rule is this. If a person lives and works in English speaking country, he/she should be referred by his English name, including order. In this case, I presume he has never published in a Chinese Journal, and is completely unknown to the general public in China. Even if he was known in China, or had worked in China, he would have used his name in Chinese characters, and the Chinese wikipedia could/would/does spell his name in the correct chinese order. Reminds me of when a greek TV station called Schwarznegger an "Austrian" actor. Kotika98 ( talk) 13:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
What's the current affiliation of Professor Tian?It seems he works full-time for Princeton and Part-time for Peking University,right? Rezameyqani ( talk) 10:18, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) B dash ( talk) 10:18, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Tian Gang →
Gang Tian – Virtually all the references cited use Western name order (as is customary for modern era mathematicians that have published in Western journals). There have been several moves in both directions before, all without prior discussion, so maybe we should discuss this to settle it. Note the talk page discussion from 2008 where consensus is also on the side of Western naming order. —
Kusma (
t·
c) 19:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)--Relisting.
B dash (
talk)
00:09, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
I have advertised this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. — Kusma ( t· c) 07:33, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
it is standard practice in English to also present the family name firstand using the English ordering is
an exception. Therefore, there must be convincing evidence to use the English ordering. Yes, most major mathematics publications use (given name, family name) ordering regardless of author origin. However, this is largely for standardization (as well as historical / geographical reasons). Yes, there is a case for many Chinese mathematicians who have spent most of their academic careers in the Western world to count as these exceptions (indeed for most of most well-known Chinese mathematicians from the last half-century), but I do not think that this is one such case. Tian has spent much of his career in China and a significant portion of his activity is there. It is also important to note that many English-language publications in China use "Tian Gang" when referring to him (and also use this order for other people coming from countries using the same order, e.g. Japan, South Korea): Nature Index (written by Peking University), Beijing Normal University, Capital Normal University, Yenching Academy of Peking University. — MarkH21 ( talk) 20:33, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I also don't feel particularly strongly about this in general because the Chinese name template makes the actual family name fairly clear and redirects will send readers to the correct article regardless of which the readers look up. I personally think that the articles should always be named in (family name, given name) order for people from nations using this ordering unless there is clear evidence for their own preference and/or for them being known predominantly, within English-language publications, in the other ordering (e.g. Paul Erdős). But that's more or less what WP:ZHNAME says. It's essentially an issue of controlling WP:BIAS while also following WP:COMMONNAME. — MarkH21 ( talk) 22:59, 7 April 2019 (UTC)