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The only sources I am aware of for Caesar's father are:
Plutarch, who says that his sister Julia married Marius (
Caesar 1), and that Aurelia was Caesar's mother (
Caesar 9)
Suetonius, who says that he reached the rank of praetor and died when Caesar was sixteen (
Julius 1), that his wife was Aurelia and he had a daughter called Julia (
Julius 74), and that he employed Gnipho as Caesar's tutor (
Lives of Eminent Grammarians 7)
There may well be others, but I have been unable to find them, and the "unreferenced" tag has failed to spur anyone to produce them. The inclusion of the phrase "Upon his return to the Italian Peninsula, he found it far different from the one he knew" makes me suspect someone's been using historical fiction as a source. We need references for:
The date of his birth, quaestorship and praetorship
(1) The birth, as is often the case with Roman senators, can be guestimated within a few years from the career, in this case the praetorship (which will be held no earlier than the 40th year). (2) The governorship of Asia (which will have begun while praetor) is found in Inschriften von Priene no. 111; the date is controversial, however. Sumner (Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies, 1978) dated it to late 90s; Brennan (Praetorship in the Roman Republic, OUP 2000, p. 553) to early 90s. I'll have to double check on 3,4, 5.
semper fictilis01:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
More on (1). The quaestorship and praetorship are also mentioned in Inscript. Ital. 13.3.51-2, an important discussion of which was made by Broughton in AJA 52 [1948] 328-9 (available in JSTOR).
semper fictilis02:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Text of I. Ital. 13.3.51-2
A lot of what we know of the career of the father is from these two inscriptions (square brackets are what are supplied by Broughton:
IIt. 13.3.51 (as supplemented by Broughton AJA 52 [1948] 328):
[C. Iulius C. f. L. n.] Caesar / [pater divi Iul]i / [tr. mil. xvir. agr. dand. adtr. iu]dic. q. pr. / [inter cives et peregrinos, pro]cos in Asia;
translation: [C. Julius] Caesar, [son of Gaius, grandson of Lucius], [military tribune, decemvir for giving, distributing, and] jud[ging lands], quaestor, praetor / [between citizens and foreigners], [pro]consul in Asia
IIt. 13.3.7 (supplements of Broughton AJA 52 [1948] 329):
[C. Iu]lius [C. f. Caesar] / pater di[vi Iuli] / [p]r. q. tr. [mil., xvir] / [c]olonos Cerce[inam deduxit].
translation: [C. Ju]ius [Caesar, son of Gaius], father of the divine [Julius], [p]raetor, quaestor, [military] tribune, [decemvir], he [settled] colonists at Ceri[na].
The translation says that he was proconsul of Asia, right? Doesn't that mean he had to have been elected consul at some point in his life, at least, according my understanding? The sources say he only reached the rank of praetor. --
Knjaz Aranath14:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)reply
Oh, ok. I didn't realise. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm learning about the late Republic at the moment, so that confused me a little.
Knjaz Aranath14:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)reply
The name of this article
The title of this article should be changed more in line with standard practice in Roman history. Usually men with the same name (and there are lots of them) are differentiated in modern history books by adding their highest magistracy. In this case, this means renaming this article, e.g.,
Gaius Julius Caesar (pr. c. 99)semper fictilis02:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The problem with that is that it makes it hard to be consistent. The other way is to use the Pauly-Wissowa numbering. (PW is an enormous classical encyclopedia in German; its articles for every different Julius gets a different number.)
semper fictilis20:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Given the number of Romans with the same name, absolute consistency is going to be impossible to achieve - clarity and accuracy may be the best we can manage. Following Pauly-Wissowa might make things consistent, but it would mean a lot of work for the few editors who have access to it and can read the German well enough to distinguish between people of the same name. --
Nicknack00921:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)reply
If we're going to use rank to distinguish them, the highest rank he held was proconsul. Is the sequence of proconsuls of Asia well-enough known to estimate when he held that position? --
Nicknack00921:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Before Sulla, proconsulships began during the year of the praetorship--so that's no help. In any case, the practice in publications seems to be only to use city offices this way--consul, praetor, trib. pl., etc. Look at
this google books search to get an idea.
semper fictilis01:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Dr. Who link
I reverted an edit that reverted the introduction of GJC's appearance in some Dr. Who media or other. It's an accepted convention that relevant "X in popular culture" sections are perfectly acceptable in articles, and this case was no different.
Ford MF (
talk)
18:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our
talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
The only sources I am aware of for Caesar's father are:
Plutarch, who says that his sister Julia married Marius (
Caesar 1), and that Aurelia was Caesar's mother (
Caesar 9)
Suetonius, who says that he reached the rank of praetor and died when Caesar was sixteen (
Julius 1), that his wife was Aurelia and he had a daughter called Julia (
Julius 74), and that he employed Gnipho as Caesar's tutor (
Lives of Eminent Grammarians 7)
There may well be others, but I have been unable to find them, and the "unreferenced" tag has failed to spur anyone to produce them. The inclusion of the phrase "Upon his return to the Italian Peninsula, he found it far different from the one he knew" makes me suspect someone's been using historical fiction as a source. We need references for:
The date of his birth, quaestorship and praetorship
(1) The birth, as is often the case with Roman senators, can be guestimated within a few years from the career, in this case the praetorship (which will be held no earlier than the 40th year). (2) The governorship of Asia (which will have begun while praetor) is found in Inschriften von Priene no. 111; the date is controversial, however. Sumner (Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies, 1978) dated it to late 90s; Brennan (Praetorship in the Roman Republic, OUP 2000, p. 553) to early 90s. I'll have to double check on 3,4, 5.
semper fictilis01:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
More on (1). The quaestorship and praetorship are also mentioned in Inscript. Ital. 13.3.51-2, an important discussion of which was made by Broughton in AJA 52 [1948] 328-9 (available in JSTOR).
semper fictilis02:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Text of I. Ital. 13.3.51-2
A lot of what we know of the career of the father is from these two inscriptions (square brackets are what are supplied by Broughton:
IIt. 13.3.51 (as supplemented by Broughton AJA 52 [1948] 328):
[C. Iulius C. f. L. n.] Caesar / [pater divi Iul]i / [tr. mil. xvir. agr. dand. adtr. iu]dic. q. pr. / [inter cives et peregrinos, pro]cos in Asia;
translation: [C. Julius] Caesar, [son of Gaius, grandson of Lucius], [military tribune, decemvir for giving, distributing, and] jud[ging lands], quaestor, praetor / [between citizens and foreigners], [pro]consul in Asia
IIt. 13.3.7 (supplements of Broughton AJA 52 [1948] 329):
[C. Iu]lius [C. f. Caesar] / pater di[vi Iuli] / [p]r. q. tr. [mil., xvir] / [c]olonos Cerce[inam deduxit].
translation: [C. Ju]ius [Caesar, son of Gaius], father of the divine [Julius], [p]raetor, quaestor, [military] tribune, [decemvir], he [settled] colonists at Ceri[na].
The translation says that he was proconsul of Asia, right? Doesn't that mean he had to have been elected consul at some point in his life, at least, according my understanding? The sources say he only reached the rank of praetor. --
Knjaz Aranath14:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)reply
Oh, ok. I didn't realise. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm learning about the late Republic at the moment, so that confused me a little.
Knjaz Aranath14:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)reply
The name of this article
The title of this article should be changed more in line with standard practice in Roman history. Usually men with the same name (and there are lots of them) are differentiated in modern history books by adding their highest magistracy. In this case, this means renaming this article, e.g.,
Gaius Julius Caesar (pr. c. 99)semper fictilis02:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The problem with that is that it makes it hard to be consistent. The other way is to use the Pauly-Wissowa numbering. (PW is an enormous classical encyclopedia in German; its articles for every different Julius gets a different number.)
semper fictilis20:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Given the number of Romans with the same name, absolute consistency is going to be impossible to achieve - clarity and accuracy may be the best we can manage. Following Pauly-Wissowa might make things consistent, but it would mean a lot of work for the few editors who have access to it and can read the German well enough to distinguish between people of the same name. --
Nicknack00921:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)reply
If we're going to use rank to distinguish them, the highest rank he held was proconsul. Is the sequence of proconsuls of Asia well-enough known to estimate when he held that position? --
Nicknack00921:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Before Sulla, proconsulships began during the year of the praetorship--so that's no help. In any case, the practice in publications seems to be only to use city offices this way--consul, praetor, trib. pl., etc. Look at
this google books search to get an idea.
semper fictilis01:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Dr. Who link
I reverted an edit that reverted the introduction of GJC's appearance in some Dr. Who media or other. It's an accepted convention that relevant "X in popular culture" sections are perfectly acceptable in articles, and this case was no different.
Ford MF (
talk)
18:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)reply