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Saying that the Gracchi "were of noble descent" is somewhat misleading. While Tiberius the elder married into the Scipii, the Gracchi were plebians. What do y'all think -- change it or not? Ejectgoose 17:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
"Noble" in the Roman Republic means that an ancestor was consul. It is not synonymous with being "Patrician." Neither is wealth synonymous with Patrician status. A family cannot become Patrician, but it can become noble and wealthy.
I think a families were elevated to patrician status during the reign of Augustus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.166.216 ( talk) 09:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
I think 'of noble descent' is actually quite a good description of them; they were related to the Cornelii, and Tiberius and Gaius both married into influential families, plus their father had been consul twice and censor. Ashavah 14:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I think 'noble descent' is misleading. Just either use the term Nobiles and then define it, that is what the Sempronii Gracchi were. This would clear up any confusion as to whether they were patrician (which of course they weren't). 3 March 2008 Imperator101
Under the section titled "Second tribunate and death" is: "In 122 BC, Gaius ran, unconstitutionally for another term as tribune of the plebs..." However Garett G. Fagan states in his Teaching Company (audio) course "The History of Ancient Rome" (Lesson 20, 'the Gracchi Brothers), "(Gaius) became Tribune of the people in 123 B.C. and again in 122; it must be stated that in the interim a law had been passed allowing people to stand for successive tribunates within reason. It's not that they could keep doing it for a decade or more but they could hold it for two or three if they wished." If this was indeed the case then Gaius' second election to the post would in fact be "constitutional." 122.26.131.153 ( talk) 15:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
The following is marked dubious. I did not raise it. The bill was rejected because the Roman elite had no wish to share the benefits of citizenship, including subsidised grain and public works. The rejection of this measure led, in part, to the disastrous
Social War of 91-87 BC.
The reason given is I doubt this statement was in the source cited. The grain dole and public works were obviously not for the elite, but for the plebs. The elite opposed these reforms because they would have removed their influence on rural areas. The source should be checked.
Dated Feb 2020.
In general, I concur. First, subsidised grain literally just started. Public works are also non-excludable, unless you are to do the Roman thing of saying 'all Italians must leave the city' while also having almost no meaningful enforcement mechanism. Opposition, however, was importantly not confined to the elite; the plebs urbana opposed extension of citizenship in similar political terms. Part of the elite's opposition to extensions of Italian citizenship was also the fact that anyone who achieved it would suddenly vault to the summit of Roman politics as well on the backs of the Italians. E Gabba, 'Rome and Italy: the Social War' in Crook et al (eds) 9 Cambridge Ancient History (1994) 113. Ifly6 ( talk) 11:53, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Why has the story of Septimuleius and Gaius’s head been removed from this article? It is consistently part of historical accounts of his death. Amplifysound ( talk) 00:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
References
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 730 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Saying that the Gracchi "were of noble descent" is somewhat misleading. While Tiberius the elder married into the Scipii, the Gracchi were plebians. What do y'all think -- change it or not? Ejectgoose 17:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
"Noble" in the Roman Republic means that an ancestor was consul. It is not synonymous with being "Patrician." Neither is wealth synonymous with Patrician status. A family cannot become Patrician, but it can become noble and wealthy.
I think a families were elevated to patrician status during the reign of Augustus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.166.216 ( talk) 09:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
I think 'of noble descent' is actually quite a good description of them; they were related to the Cornelii, and Tiberius and Gaius both married into influential families, plus their father had been consul twice and censor. Ashavah 14:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I think 'noble descent' is misleading. Just either use the term Nobiles and then define it, that is what the Sempronii Gracchi were. This would clear up any confusion as to whether they were patrician (which of course they weren't). 3 March 2008 Imperator101
Under the section titled "Second tribunate and death" is: "In 122 BC, Gaius ran, unconstitutionally for another term as tribune of the plebs..." However Garett G. Fagan states in his Teaching Company (audio) course "The History of Ancient Rome" (Lesson 20, 'the Gracchi Brothers), "(Gaius) became Tribune of the people in 123 B.C. and again in 122; it must be stated that in the interim a law had been passed allowing people to stand for successive tribunates within reason. It's not that they could keep doing it for a decade or more but they could hold it for two or three if they wished." If this was indeed the case then Gaius' second election to the post would in fact be "constitutional." 122.26.131.153 ( talk) 15:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
The following is marked dubious. I did not raise it. The bill was rejected because the Roman elite had no wish to share the benefits of citizenship, including subsidised grain and public works. The rejection of this measure led, in part, to the disastrous
Social War of 91-87 BC.
The reason given is I doubt this statement was in the source cited. The grain dole and public works were obviously not for the elite, but for the plebs. The elite opposed these reforms because they would have removed their influence on rural areas. The source should be checked.
Dated Feb 2020.
In general, I concur. First, subsidised grain literally just started. Public works are also non-excludable, unless you are to do the Roman thing of saying 'all Italians must leave the city' while also having almost no meaningful enforcement mechanism. Opposition, however, was importantly not confined to the elite; the plebs urbana opposed extension of citizenship in similar political terms. Part of the elite's opposition to extensions of Italian citizenship was also the fact that anyone who achieved it would suddenly vault to the summit of Roman politics as well on the backs of the Italians. E Gabba, 'Rome and Italy: the Social War' in Crook et al (eds) 9 Cambridge Ancient History (1994) 113. Ifly6 ( talk) 11:53, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Why has the story of Septimuleius and Gaius’s head been removed from this article? It is consistently part of historical accounts of his death. Amplifysound ( talk) 00:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
References